2008.08.14 19:00 – 9 Guardians with 1 Cookieman

Pia Iger was the guardain on call. And She did it all of this log :)

As usual, the nature of our meeting here, with people dropping in and out, made it hard for the conversation to go in straight line and in depth. Many topics were only scratched at surface. Nonetheless, during tonight’s session and quite a while after its ending, my heart clearly felt the delight of just being there, sharing the peaceful talk and experincing the fellowship. I can say what I get out of this meeting is much more than the collection of words being typied out in the chat box.

In a minute or two, 6 guardians gathered at Pavilion.

Threedee Shepherd: Hello friends

Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

Doug Sosa: hi adelene

Adelene Dawner: Hi all :)

Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

Doug Sosa: hi pia :)

Pia Iger: Hi, All,

Threedee Shepherd: hello Pia

Thorberg Nordlicht: hello

Doug Sosa: :)

Pia Iger: Ah oh, Thor, Doug is on your seat

Doug Sosa: well..

Doug Sosa: all's well..

Pia Iger: Ok. everyone is here. Let's start.

Doug Sosa: ok.

Threedee Shepherd: :)

As ‘professors’ were seated, I threw in the first stone.

Pia Iger: I found when I wake up in the morning, it really feel fresh, bright than before.

Threedee Shepherd: before what or when?

Pia Iger: before I engaged in PaB practice.

Threedee Shepherd: ahh

Doug Sosa: And is it instant, a few moments, is it being fresh maybe that wakes you?

Pia Iger: no. I wake up, then feel fresh. or maybe the same time.

Doug Sosa: looking at these micro moments can be really useful.

Threedee Shepherd: Interesting question Doug. I have the luxury of not needing to awake at a specific time (mostly) and have never thought about "what wakes me"

Thorberg Nordlicht: interesting that the 9-second practice has an effect at other times when you're not actually doing the practice

Doug Sosa: When we are in transition we can catch the mind so to speak.

Doug Sosa: I have been very affected outside the 9, it nearly pervades everything -not because

Doug Sosa: its present, but the direness of continuous time is absent, because i can always do a nine sec.

Pia Iger: The moment of wakeup seems enlarged, very impressive. It was not so noticeable before.

Threedee Shepherd: I have a similar experience Doug

Doug Sosa: enlarged in space, intensity?

Pia Iger: intensity, is more accurate.

Walked in Mr. Cookieman, and quickly it appears he would be a constant here.

cookieman Constantine: Hello do you mind if I join you?

Threedee Shepherd: please do :)

Pia Iger: Hi, Cookie, come in

Doug Sosa: come in cookieman.

Pia Iger: have you been here before, Cookie?

Doug Sosa: we are having a quiet conversation. Do you know Play as Being cookieman Constantine: no. this is only my second day on.

Threedee Shepherd: how did you find us?

cookieman Constantine: just looking at the map and flying around

Pia Iger: http://playasbeing.wik.is/ is our website, Cookie.

Doug Sosa: we follow a kind of practice. during the day, to take time (the guide says every fifteen minutes

but..) and drop all assumptions for 9 seconds, and then report here.

Pia Iger: We have very open conversation here about the nature of reality

cookieman Constantine: sounds like my kind of conversation

How do you feel when new people say that?

Doug Sosa: people take to it amazingly well.

Doug Sosa: So Pia was talking about the experience of waking up..

Pia Iger: The group meets for discussion four times per day, every day at 1 a.m., 7 a.m., 1 p.m., and 7 p.m.(SL time). You are welcome to join

cookieman Constantine: Thank you for the invite.

Threedee Shepherd: Of course different members of the group will likely be at the various meetings Doug Sosa: of course most us don't make it to all, or even one, of the sessions..

cookieman Constantine: If no one is here I will talk to the table : ) Threedee Shepherd: :D

Pia Iger: Cool. We do record our conversation here. Are u ok with it?

Pia Iger: Cookie?

cookieman Constantine: I am fine with that.

Doug Sosa: i love it, talk to the table. You bring some wisdom.

Can’t wait to read future blog of Cookieman talking to the table ^.^

Pia Iger: Ok., back to my wake up moments, it feels very refreshing, and I almost feel very joyful to start a day.

Pia Iger: but as the day goes on, the feeling worn out by chores.

Doug Sosa: I've experimented quite a bit with this.

Doug Sosa: When we are awake the inner mind (so to speak)..

Threedee Shepherd: Pia, what are chores, things you do not want to do?

Doug Sosa: and the outer world are connected. When we sleep we let go of the ties to the outer, but the mind, instead of stopping, is freer to play without constraint. You can notice

Pia Iger: work, housework, so on. 3D

Doug Sosa: ..as you are going to sleep, that thoughts turn from what is present outside to short dreams, memories, playful reordering..

Doug Sosa: and that seems to me what creates the restfulness

Doug Sosa: and the chores, or just continuous connection to the outside..

Doug Sosa: is what tires us.

cookieman Constantine: There are times where I appear to be awake but my mind is still attached to my pillow

cookieman Constantine: I will go through my day and realize i am at work

Threedee Shepherd: Pia, what I am exploring is how chores differ from "pleasures"

Pia Iger: 3D, maybe you have point here, chores are things that I feel I have to do,

Pia Iger: daily,

7th guardain, Riddle, came in.

Threedee Shepherd: h i riddle

Pia Iger: Hi, Riddle,

Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

Threedee Shepherd: Are the chores things that need to get done?

cookieman Constantine: Hello Riddle

Pia Iger: yes.

Doug Sosa: :)

Threedee Shepherd: so how does that differ from things you have to do?

Pia Iger: they are same to me.

Riddle Sideways: hi everybody

Doug Sosa: come sit :)

Threedee Shepherd: are pleasures things you similarly are drawn to do?

Riddle Sideways: hi everybody

Thorberg Nordlicht: hello Riddle

Pia Iger: Pleasures are different from chores. They are more energizing then chores.

Doug Sosa: Thor, cookieman is new but fits right in

Adelene Dawner: They are more engaging, you are more easily engaged by them?

Adelene Dawner: *or you are

Thorberg Nordlicht: surprising that cookieman found this group so quickly after coming into SL

Threedee Shepherd: Of course, I experience the difference between chores and pleasures, too. What I am playing with is why we see them as different things. Both exercise our being.

Thorberg Nordlicht: this group suites me well too -- certainly more than the SL "club" scene -- but it took me 18 months in SL to find a group like this

Pia Iger: both exercise our being, but in different ways.

Threedee Shepherd: I am fond of quoting Confucius'

Analect 1.1. "To learn something and then put it into practice at the right time:is this not a joy?

Threedee Shepherd: That can apply to lots of daily activities.

Doug Sosa: how does the 9 sec work with chores or pleasures? Different?

Pia Iger: hopeful it will bring more joy to chores?

Doug Sosa: i am thinking maybe it is harder to get detachment from pleasures than from chores.

Doug Sosa: I think i fell into an old trap. PaB is not detachment so much as letting being be.

Pia Iger: take life 'as is', that what I understand

Thorberg Nordlicht: to "let being be" practice "observing without judging"

Riddle Sideways: yet not really letting Being be...more like playing with it

Riddle Sideways: no judging

Riddle Sideways: just play

As it turned out, there was someone playing off-line :)

cookieman Constantine: sorry. my son was educating me on the ickyness if his fish sticks

Pia Iger: Riddle, can you share with us how you understand the word "play" here?

Pia Iger: (np, Cookie)

Riddle Sideways: a very multifaceted word

Riddle Sideways: play as fun, experiments, and shows

Riddle Sideways: recently got much out of "watching" plays (Shakespeare

Riddle Sideways: )

Doug Sosa: cookie, come again.

Riddle Sideways: mostly "playing" with how "I" play

cookieman Constantine: sorry was readjusting screen.

Doug Sosa: fish stick smears?

cookieman Constantine: i wouldnt have left without saying bye

Riddle Sideways: and I have very bad delays and network probsl tonight Riddle Sideways: I remember the fish stick days

cookieman Constantine: something like that riddle

Riddle Sideways: my son is now old enough to tell the non-ickyness of beer

Further exploration of ‘play’.

Threedee Shepherd: <tangent> young male cubs (such as lions) engage in play fighting and know that play is the intention of the other, not injurious fighting

Riddle Sideways: that is very much like this group

Pia Iger: as in Playasbeing, I understand 'play" means "we explore in a way not too seriously, not too uptight"

cookieman Constantine: thats is how they acquire most of their future fighting skills

cookieman Constantine: uptight.. kind of like my last pair of sneakers Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm, how do they "know" it's safe play, I am wondering?

Doug Sosa: we probably don't like to acknowledge them, but we all have them.

Riddle Sideways: theirs is a language between them

Doug Sosa: Hey great question Three

cookieman Constantine: I think it's in the manual thorberg " )

Doug Sosa: But you should know :)

Pia Iger: their way of knowing, somehow between animals

Adelene Dawner: body language.

Threedee Shepherd: shows how unimportant words can be

Pia Iger: ah:)

Riddle Sideways thinks body language uses word equivalents

Came in 8th guardain, Solo!

Threedee Shepherd: hello solo

Pia Iger: Hi, Solo

Riddle Sideways: hi solobill

Solobill Laville: Hello, everyone

cookieman Constantine: yeah its sort of like calling a friend a jerk joking and smiling and then saying it with malice and intent

cookieman Constantine: Hello solo

Thorberg Nordlicht: hello

Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

Riddle Sideways: now, how do we do that in SL

cookieman Constantine: Let me check the manual......

Riddle Sideways: type nasty thing then a :)

Pia Iger: time can tell...

Adelene Dawner: Actually in my experience, most body language doesn't translate to words well at all...and, specific behaviors don't even translate to specific concepts - it's the interplay, more.

Doug Sosa: need to say bye, so "bye":)

Riddle Sideways: if nobody types "lol"

Adelene Dawner: At least, with animals. I'm not so good with human body language.

Threedee Shepherd: bye Doug

cookieman Constantine: bye Doug

Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend

Thorberg Nordlicht: i, too, must say good night

Threedee Shepherd: goodnight

Solobill Laville: night, thor

cookieman Constantine: Night Thor

More about ‘no words’.

Pia Iger: I read a book about mothering. During the first month, baby can communicate great amount with mother, of cause without any words.

Threedee Shepherd: certainly

Pia Iger: so there are a lot knowing and communication happening outside words.

cookieman Constantine: I wonder what thoughts an infant would think when first entering the world

cookieman Constantine: "dude.....its cold"

Solobill Laville: :)

Adelene Dawner: That kind of communication seems to be discounted a lot, at least in conversation like this, because it feels more like intuition than communication.

Riddle Sideways: more important is why we grow into things words are the only communication media

cookieman Constantine: "i'm out.... It's bright.... Oh the manual said scream and breathe"

Pia Iger: hehe

Riddle Sideways: lol

Solobill Laville: Can you expand that a bit Riddle?

Tonight’s 9th guardian walked in. Bertrum pitched in immediately, and learnt something new, which approved to be useful right away.

Pia Iger: Hi, Bertrum

Riddle Sideways: not really, well good people I also need to leave. was nice to see the 7pm group.

cookieman Constantine: Hello Bertrum

Bertrum Quan: hi everyone

Solobill Laville: hehe, bye Riddle

Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

Solobill Laville: Hey, bert

Riddle Sideways: hi and bye bertrum

Threedee Shepherd: bye riddle, hello bertrum cookieman Constantine: Night riddle. good to meet you Riddle Sideways is Offline

Pia Iger: Bertrum, we were talking about knowing beyond words.

Bertrum Quan: Intuition.

Bertrum Quan: Has that been discussed?

Threedee Shepherd: embodiment

Solobill Laville: Experiential knowledge?

cookieman Constantine: more along the lines of instinct Solobill Laville: But instinct can bo wrong, true? So what did we actually "know"?

Pia Iger: and don't our intuition and instincts grow as we get older?

Solobill Laville: I think they can Pia, but you can also close down those channels too

Pia Iger: right

Bertrum Quan: There are natural instincts that we have inherently... we may not always interpret them well...

Solobill Laville: I feel I was more intuitive in a way when I was younger

cookieman Constantine: i would guess i would say so

Pia Iger: any example, Bertrum?

Solobill Laville: run away?

Bertrum Quan: I'm not sure is a guarantee of wisdom or being Deeping and accurately in touch with our natural instincts...

Bertrum Quan: left out the word "age"

Solobill Laville: Agreed

Bertrum Quan: wisdom deeply

Threedee Shepherd: I suggest our body (including feelings) is more in touch with the environment it is making and in, than are words. It's interpretation that's *messy*

cookieman Constantine: like a fish stick

Threedee Shepherd: :)

Bertrum Quan: In my view an example can be what we "know" about the natural world...

Solobill Laville: Using our senses?

Bertrum Quan: Some people through instinct, experience, wisdom, etc. can know if it will rain...

Bertrum Quan: Others will not.

cookieman Constantine: well folks time for me to say nite nite

cookieman Constantine: thank you for the invite and see you soon.

Solobill Laville: night

Pia Iger: nice meeting you, welcome back, cookie

Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend

Threedee Shepherd: goodnight

Bertrum Quan: goodnight

Bertrum Quan: I believe the same instinct, experience, wisdom combine to help us understand what it means to be human...

Bertrum Quan: And to see the nature of being...

Pia Iger: true, I was thinking, if we only live or behave logically, how boring life would be.

Bertrum Quan: Logic is not the same as instinct or intuition...

Solobill Laville: Right, but neither is experience or wisdom, imo Threedee Shepherd: true, and even worse, absolute logic is impossible because we do not know all the factors.

Bertrum Quan: imo?

Solobill Laville: Instinct and intuition are beyond thought, but experience or wisdom are not necessarily so

Solobill Laville: in my opinion

Solobill Laville: imo

Solobill Laville: :)

Bertrum Quan: Okay, thanks.

Pia Iger: Play may be the one connecting all of this?!

Threedee Shepherd: what happens if we just say instinct, intuition, experience, wisdom ARE.

Solobill Laville: Fine by me, Threedee! :)

Bertrum Quan: Yes... that works imo...

Solobill Laville: (well done, Bert!) imo

Bertrum Quan: thanks!

My intuition told me it was good time to take the break.

Pia Iger: can we continue next time?

Solobill Laville: sure, Pia

Bertrum Quan: sure.

Threedee Shepherd: certainly, and many times after that, I'm sure :)

Pia Iger: :)

Threedee Shepherd: goodnight all