2009.11.04 07:00 - Stopping in a Funny Pose

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who was joined today by Sophia, Yakuzza, and Storm. Sophia started today's topic, which led to a funny but really useful discussion of PaB pauses in daily life.

sophia Placebo: greetings
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia, you look amazing with dark hair :)
sophia Placebo: ^^ thnx
Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, how are things today?
sophia Placebo: :) funny
Eliza Madrigal: funny?
sophia Placebo: yeah, some funny patients with funny complaints so ....
Eliza Madrigal: If I may ask, what qualifies as a funny complaint?
sophia Placebo: hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: Or that may be inappropriate to ask here... Hm
Eliza Madrigal: Sorry :)
sophia Placebo: np :) unusual non medical issues are usually funny complaints
Eliza Madrigal: maybe because it is so strange to try to describe things.. where a 'normal' pain ends and an uncommon one begins, etc
sophia Placebo: poepel picking some un relivant issues and stick to it , oh well hard to tell but the poeple whome you think are living in upside doan reasoning realm than yours usually make you smile and or laugh
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Also, people have various thresholds too... so one person comes in with a hiccup and another with a leg falling off
Eliza Madrigal: heh
Eliza Madrigal: "I feel a little uncomfortable"
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Yakuzza arives, and we talk about habits. How long does it take for a thought to become an action? Does it depend on the thought? The person?

Yakuzza Lethecus: morning eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi yakuzza! :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: and sophioa
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you today. All well?
sophia Placebo: like a paitent worried about rare or non existing side effects of one drug but totally ok with her smoking habit
sophia Placebo: hi yak
Eliza Madrigal: heheh.... yes peculiar
Yakuzza Lethecus: sure, keep going in the topic :)
Eliza Madrigal: We are all like that... "Strain on a gnat and swallow a camel" it is called somewhere
Eliza Madrigal: :)
sophia Placebo: true
Eliza Madrigal: it must be difficult to evaluate in a concrete way
Eliza Madrigal: for someone else I mean... in a way that shows a 'good' decision
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s facinating how we tend to behave in dissonant ways, yesterday i´ve eaten an entire package of choclate ,,knowing" that i will feel sick after it :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but it tasted great :)
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: You made a conscious decision to be ill, in a way
Eliza Madrigal: to pay the price
Yakuzza Lethecus: or that i get blain´s from french fries
--BELL--
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i still can´t resist sometimes
Yakuzza Lethecus: but the problem in the experience and learning behavior is when we can´t directly conclude from the negative traits on future health problems
Eliza Madrigal: By the time I get to the "If I eat that I will feel ill but I really want to" I've really already made the decision to eat it 'come what may'... so for myself, the only thing to do is to 'add' positive habits
Eliza Madrigal: and then the thought doesn't come up so easily...
Eliza Madrigal: strange maybe, but I gave up on trying to 'control' myself at one level...
Eliza Madrigal: Does that make sense?
sophia Placebo: hi storm
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know, i try not to control myself that much

Storm arrives and the discussion shifts a bit toward priorities and what it takes to make effective changes.

Yakuzza Lethecus: hi storm
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm! :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi guys :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i am aware of the negative habits i have
Eliza Madrigal: Here is something Sophia said this morning which has sparked a conversation :[7:10] sophia Placebo: like a paitent worried about rare or non existing side effects of one drug but totally ok with her smoking habit
Yakuzza Lethecus: so when i ,,want something to go away" i often get stuck in the thought about it but unable to change things
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, interesting phrasing there ya. See that "stuck in the thought'
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Eliza Madrigal: All well Storm?
sophia Placebo: thoughts take long time befor they are trnaslated to actions
Storm Nordwind: ?
Eliza Madrigal: Maybe it depends on the type of thought?
sophia Placebo: maybe
sophia Placebo: maybe it is just me also
Yakuzza Lethecus: for example there are issues i circle in for years
Storm Nordwind apologiezes and closes down all the PaB Wiki maintenance screens! :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: like, i was to scared to study at college
Eliza Madrigal: hehe, no worries Storm
Yakuzza Lethecus: why that happened, why i still fear to fail if i try distant study, what the misguided believes are i have in mind
Eliza Madrigal: If one comes to a sign or issue over and over again, it is like a recurrent dream to be addressed....
Eliza Madrigal: to come at another way maybe
Eliza Madrigal: maybe even illogically
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am going to be afk for a couple of minutes
sophia Placebo: i guess it maybe has something to do with habit resistance
Eliza Madrigal: habit resistance Sophia?
sophia Placebo: some poeple are more flexible with habits others are more strict
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, maybe the grooves we get stuck in vary too
Eliza Madrigal: in depth I mean
sophia Placebo: so when they are thinking of changing their home , city , job smoking habit etc , they took longer time thinking about it
Eliza Madrigal nods
Storm Nordwind: There are many reasons for that though
Storm Nordwind: Some people don't like to take risks. Others just want to be thorough in their evaluations
Eliza Madrigal: true, and varying circumstances factor in... a person who easily takes risk for themselves might not risk if another is involved...
sophia Placebo: true , habits are not totally pointless
Storm Nordwind nods
Storm Nordwind: Quite often, the problem of bad habits is that people have not really prioritized what's most important to them...
Storm Nordwind: or they have and really the habit is more important than they'd previously admitted!
Eliza Madrigal nods to that... yes for instance someone smoking has all kinds of associations involved... habits of identity, etc... within habits
Storm Nordwind: very few people actually take the time to sit down and thoroughly evaluate: "What matters most to me?"
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: false starts can have a wearing down effect too...making one hesitant. Especially if working 'under one's own steam' so to speak. So something one wants 'more than anything' can be paralyzing?
sophia Placebo: hmm , many poeple actually know that their health is more important than tastey food , and though they admitt this they also admitt that they do it the other way around cuz it is more convienent
Storm Nordwind: Evaluating what you really want doesn't necessarily give you the confidence to go for it Eliza :)
sophia Placebo nods
Eliza Madrigal: :)

What we think we know...

Storm Nordwind: What people 'know' and what people really think is important are often at odds
Storm Nordwind: But seeing this is the first step of changing it
Storm Nordwind: These things are not set in stone
Storm Nordwind used to teach this stuff on personal management coaching courses
Eliza Madrigal sees meditation as the way getting beyond or undermine/break down those thoughts we get *stuck* in
Storm Nordwind: It can be a fabulous tool for that Eliza, true
Eliza Madrigal: Careful Storm, you'll have emails from me...hehe... and you're busy enough...hehe
Eliza Madrigal: "How do I decide...."
Storm Nordwind: Although there are so many different sorts of meditation, so you need the right tools for the job!
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, true... that can be overwhelming
Storm Nordwind: The answer to that is easy Eliza. "How do I decide...." First sign here and pay me $10,000! ;->
Eliza Madrigal giggles

Choosing the right tool...

Eliza Madrigal: So then Storm what kind of tool would you see the PaB style pauses as?
Eliza Madrigal: Is that an odd question?
Storm Nordwind breathes in sharply!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: Well, it depends on your frame of reference - what terms you use
Storm Nordwind: I'd rather not classify it really
Storm Nordwind: I'd rather just go with the effects
Eliza Madrigal nods
Storm Nordwind: And that really tells you what kind of tool it is for you personally
Eliza Madrigal: yes understandable
Storm Nordwind: People use it for different things

Sophia's PaB pause experience...

sophia Placebo: i had pab pause experiance a few days ago wich was funny too
Storm Nordwind: For example, I know Buddhists who use it simply as a tool to help mindfulness
Storm Nordwind: Please tell us sophia!
Eliza Madrigal listens
sophia Placebo: well i was in the car back from work with all kinds of thoughts of the whole day dancing in my head , or fighting anyway
sophia Placebo: then suddenly i just paused and reialized what i was thinking of and how i was reasoning it
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so you saw the way you were thinking as causing the tension
Eliza Madrigal: ?
sophia Placebo: that was funny cuz it reminds me of some uni students project where they ask some poepel to pause all of sudden in publick place , like really pausing , stoping the movements and all as if they were frozen
sophia Placebo: thats how i saw my self , stoping in funny pose
Eliza Madrigal smiles
sophia Placebo: like if it wasnt me who was doing that reasoning :)
Storm Nordwind remembers statues in the city of Bath in south-west England, painted blue or verdigris green, who moved very very slowly... and they winked at the tourists watching them
Storm Nordwind: That's a simple and powerful effect of PaB pauses sophia
sophia Placebo: true
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and now I'm considering how it plays with time perception in a funny way... movement
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: stopping to look at what is 'going on' ... seems a gift to do that..to slow down and find better proportion
Storm Nordwind: exactly
Storm Nordwind: And you often see how physical tension suddenly dissolves too when you do it
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, true!
Eliza Madrigal: I paused when packing yesterday... was getting all tangled
sophia Placebo: well if it makes you smile :) it sure dose
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: yes a real smile
Storm Nordwind: How wonderful to share a real smile with friends! :))
sophia Placebo: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have a meeting at my son's school in a few minutes... will be employing 9 secs a lot I think
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: Oh!
sophia Placebo: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: I'm glad for this conversation which keeps it at the front of my mind
Eliza Madrigal: as I tend to get a little hm... jumpy in that setting :)
Storm Nordwind: understandable
Eliza Madrigal: I'm thinking now about the line you wrote Storm that what we think we know and what we actually think can be at odds
sophia Placebo: jump and pose while doing so !
Eliza Madrigal: hahah Sophia
sophia Placebo: pause*
Storm Nordwind chuckles with sophia
Eliza Madrigal: That's what we tap into though... that we stop and see what we actually are thinking..how habitual it can be
Eliza Madrigal: That image will probably help, Sophia
Eliza Madrigal: if I take things too seriously :)
sophia Placebo: hehe
Storm Nordwind: Yes indeed Eliza. It's very good for gently bringing our habits to our attention

We seemed to naturally pause and integrate...

Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal feels very peaceful, Thanks guys
Storm Nordwind smiles and shares in the wonderful peace :)
sophia Placebo: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'll leave at the bell, to run to the meeting. Lovely day/evening to all! :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
sophia Placebo: bye Eliza ! nice to see you today :)
Storm Nordwind: Good luck with your meeting!
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks very much! Bye for now (( ))
sophia Placebo: i will leave too :) bye
Storm Nordwind: Bye sophia!