On Poetry

Lucinda Lavender: The beat poets gathering in a small cafe for breakfast...my response was to wonder...has Youtube been here?
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: that's wonderful
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: can you say more about the dream :)
Calvino Rabeni: Wow, yes
Calvino Rabeni: What did you pick up?
Lucinda Lavender: it was a cozy place of communion.
Lucinda Lavender: just a few at a counter...wooden...not very bright here...just warm.
Lucinda Lavender: no particular topics...
Lucinda Lavender: shift to the question of youtube...an insert from Now...
Paradise Tennant: smiles .. shared creativity .. a kind of thinking on the same wave .. bonding.. fellowship .. groupdom ... being truly in touch .. that kind of sense?
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Paradise Tennant: nice dream!
Calvino Rabeni: That sounds a good description for the poetry theme session :) Can I use it, Paradise?

* * *

Wester Kiranov: it's one thing you keep on noticing here, how all communication comes up short, but the only alternative is not communicating anything
Wester Kiranov: hi cal
Aztlan Foss: also poetry has a very interesting feature. It take the features of paintings and music and puts it in to words
Aztlan Foss: maybe if we all spoke more poeticly we could understand more.
Calvino Rabeni: Good day
Aztlan Foss: sup Calvino
Wester Kiranov: if we spoke more poetically we would probably understand different things, not necesarily more
Aztlan Foss: yeah I guess you're right
Aztlan Foss: poetry usually captures more in less words
Aztlan Foss: at least the good poetry
--BELL--
Wester Kiranov: I was thinking just yesterday, that this is because poets constrain themselves
Wester Kiranov: they don't try to say all truth or all beauty at once, they communicate a little bit
Wester Kiranov: and they don't just try to make beautiful words, they write sonnets or haikus
Wester Kiranov: and that actually gives them freedom, it does not take it away
Calvino Rabeni: good points, wester
Calvino Rabeni: I've been contemplating similar questions about poetry
Aztlan Foss: yeah, I think words in poetry, allthought they seem like the point of it all I think it's about their intent
Aztlan Foss: like, paintings aren't about the paint it's self, most of the time.
Aztlan Foss: and music isn't about just the sound.
Wester Kiranov: of course not
Aztlan Foss: you have something up in your head and then you use something to communicate it
Calvino Rabeni: Of those who think about what to do with words, poets are among the first rank
Aztlan Foss: or, you can communicate something that didn't exist before
Wester Kiranov: I don't think good poets use poetry to say something they already thought, they let the words help them with the thoughts
Calvino Rabeni: True Wester
Aztlan Foss: I'm sure some poets sometimes have something to say and they use their skills to communicate it
Wester Kiranov: it's about control vs skill, all the things we were talking about last yesterday
Aztlan Foss: but I guess the point is what they are able to convey
Aztlan Foss: what probably makes something poetry is when you say something that couldn't be said any other way, but poetically.
Wester Kiranov: which means it wasn't there before the poem***\

Poetry isn't text-with-funny-rules, as people sometimes think
It's language-with-conscious-rules
A much more unrestricted use of language
I liked your point about poetic limits
I think of it as using words that convey ideas and putting them together in such a way that the ideas react with each other to communicate as close as possible what usually can't be communicated
there's things that we think that don't have words
so you say other words that together conveys the idea or builds one
instead of explaining it.
More than "convey" perhaps, is to bring it into Presence
which I guess would mean ideas have free-form relationships to each other,
just like sounds have relationships to each other.
Or point out its already present condition
I think it already exists, i guess it depends how you look at things.
when it comes to music I think all music allready exists, it's all about how yo're going to combine what's there
improv too?
like grabbing raw materials and sculpting them or putting them together
 yeah improv too, you're using raw material and doing it on the spot
Is it more like construction, or more like discovery?
I guess what I mean is that the raw material is there to do as you please with
So some things are "fully formed" already?
when you're a bigginer it's mostly discovery
once you got experience you can construct
and ther's always more to discover
some things have predictable effects

* * *

Calvino Rabeni: I proposed we'll each contribute a topic idea to make a combined creature
Calvino Rabeni: and then see what it does
stevenaia Michinaga: what sort of creature are we building?
Calvino Rabeni: One made of three topic ideas
stevenaia Michinaga: of our choosing?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
stevenaia Michinaga: I contribute....good humor
Calvino Rabeni: Nice one!
Paradise Tennant: you truly do !
Calvino Rabeni: Do you have a piece for the composition, Paradise?
stevenaia Michinaga: laughs
Paradise Tennant: hmmmm
Paradise Tennant: stillness ... the benefits of stillness
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: (good timing)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: I contribute Art ...
Paradise Tennant: smiles
Calvino Rabeni: Imagining a Creature composed of ... good humor, the benefits of stillness, and Art
Calvino Rabeni: what would such a creature do?
stevenaia Michinaga: I think we have a creature that can be easilly loved
Calvino Rabeni: hehehe
stevenaia Michinaga: and appreciated
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
stevenaia Michinaga: fun to have around the house
Paradise Tennant: quietly create beauty ..
Paradise Tennant: with gentle humor :)
stevenaia Michinaga: and wise
Calvino Rabeni: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: thoughtful through stillness
stevenaia Michinaga: creative orally and visually
Paradise Tennant: stillness has a lot of pluses there is a well of .. ........... that you can draw from .. if you just quiet yourself
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Calvino Rabeni: yes, like standing still - a dynamic posture
Calvino Rabeni: I saw someone balancing a heavy weight on their head, sitting still
Calvino Rabeni: their muscles were active all around, and centered
Calvino Rabeni: like a spinning top
Paradise Tennant: yes
Calvino Rabeni: perhaps this Creature has a spinning top, and holds out an offer - touch this :)
stevenaia Michinaga: or like a whirling dervish... moving in place
Calvino Rabeni: One hand up, one down
Calvino Rabeni: like a spiral, bringing energy of heaven down into earth

* * *

Calvino Rabeni: @SSL, from earlier - the thing about language - whether written or live - is that it is an invocation, not just a description
SophiaSharon Larnia: so Ive been thinking about silence, in the sense of thoughts are like clouds in a clear blue sky, layers and layers of clouds...
SophiaSharon Larnia: invocation
Calvino Rabeni: It is something to get comfortable with - about language
Calvino Rabeni: the way it brings things into being
SophiaSharon Larnia: thats what im afraid of
Calvino Rabeni: its creative aspect - this is the yang for the "yin" of language's descriptive ability
Calvino Rabeni: If it was only descriptive, people would be very stuck, get bored, and feel rebellious
SophiaSharon Larnia: so to stratch is to bring things into being
SophiaSharon Larnia: stretch*
Calvino Rabeni: or else scared of the way language seems to "fix" and solidify things
Calvino Rabeni: it would be too rigid
Calvino Rabeni: And I think you can notice a lot of people worried about that aspect of language

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: however, it's less common, as much as I can see, to look at the other side, as you have, and be concerned with the creative side of it
SophiaSharon Larnia: I havent talked to enough people about this to know, in many ways i'm a lone traveler

* * *

Strannik Zipper: There used to be some interesting readings in San Francisco that I used to frequent
Calvino Rabeni: so I go to the neighborhood dives
Calvino Rabeni: skip the concert hall
Calvino Rabeni: power to the people
Strannik Zipper: I tend to like a wide spectrum of stuff
Strannik Zipper: I think that was what I liked about Naropa - it was very approachable - Ginsberg would teach poetics to anyone regardless of station in life, talent or whatever
Calvino Rabeni: returning from crash I am
Strannik Zipper: thought so
Calvino Rabeni: Theres a subculture of poets that have no ambitions for fame

--BELL--

Noob: hi
Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Noob
Strannik Zipper whispers hi
Calvino Rabeni: Hi
Noob: whats going on
Calvino Rabeni: this is a place where we have a group that meets 4 times a day
Strannik Zipper: This is normally a space where we investigate being in a playful way
Calvino Rabeni: for talk and meditation
Calvino Rabeni: right, playful is its mojo
Strannik Zipper: yeah poetry is pure, there is no money and even its fame is obscure
Calvino Rabeni: but it is a medium for all this other stuff
Calvino Rabeni: for the messages and meanings people need to put out in the "we" spaces
Calvino Rabeni: Like art, but much cheaper to produce
Strannik Zipper: I like poetry because it is the ultimate form of hypertext - combining music, visual arts philosophy, experience all into one
Calvino Rabeni: Especially, I like the pure vocal variety
Calvino Rabeni: performance art
Calvino Rabeni: it's primal, you have body but no page