2008.08.14 19:00 – 9 Guardians with 1 Cookieman

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      Pia Iger was the guardian on call. And She did this log. Painful to reformat the log from her edition in MS Word.

           As usual, the nature of our meeting here, with people dropping in and out, made it hard for the conversation to go in straight line and in depth. Many topics were only scratched at surface. Nonetheless, during tonight’s session and quite a while after its ending, my heart clearly felt the delight of just being there, sharing the peaceful talk and experincing the fellowship. I can say what I get out of this meeting is much more than the collection of words being typied out in the chat box.


      In a minute or two, 6 guardians gathered at Pavilion.


    Threedee Shepherd: Hello friends

    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

    Doug Sosa: hi adelene

    Adelene Dawner: Hi all :)

    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

    Doug Sosa: hi pia :)

    Pia Iger: Hi, All,

    Threedee Shepherd: hello Pia

    Thorberg Nordlicht: hello

    Doug Sosa: :)

    Pia Iger: Ah oh, Thor, Doug is on your seat

    Doug Sosa: well..

    Doug Sosa: all's well..

    Pia Iger: Ok. everyone is here. Let's start.

    Doug Sosa: ok.

    Threedee Shepherd: :)   

     As ‘professors’ were seated, I threw in the first stone.  


    Pia Iger: I found when I wake up in the morning, it really feel fresh, bright than before.

    Threedee Shepherd: before what or when?

    Pia Iger: before I engaged in PaB practice.

    Threedee Shepherd: ahh

    Doug Sosa: And is it instant, a few moments, is it being fresh maybe that wakes you?

    Pia Iger: no. I wake up, then feel fresh. or maybe the same time.

    Doug Sosa: looking at these micro moments can be really useful.

    Threedee Shepherd: Interesting question Doug. I have the luxury of not needing to awake at a specific time (mostly) and have never thought about "what wakes me"

    Thorberg Nordlicht: interesting that the 9-second practice has an effect at other times when you're not actually doing the practice

    Doug Sosa: When we are in transition we can catch the mind so to speak.

    Doug Sosa: I have been very affected outside the 9, it nearly pervades everything -not because

    Doug Sosa: its present, but the direness of continuous time is absent, because i can always do a nine sec.

    Pia Iger: The moment of wakeup seems enlarged, very impressive. It was not so noticeable before.

    Threedee Shepherd: I have a similar experience Doug

    Doug Sosa: enlarged in space, intensity?

    Pia Iger: intensity, is more accurate.

         Walked in Mr. Cookieman, and quickly it appears he would be a constant here.  


    cookieman Constantine: Hello do you mind if I join you?

    Threedee Shepherd: please do :)

    Pia Iger: Hi, Cookie, come in

    Doug Sosa: come in cookieman.

    Pia Iger: have you been here before, Cookie?

    Doug Sosa: we are having a quiet conversation. Do you know Play as Being cookieman Constantine: no. this is only my second day on.

    Threedee Shepherd: how did you find us?

    cookieman Constantine: just looking at the map and flying around

    Pia Iger: http://playasbeing.wik.is/is our website, Cookie.

    Doug Sosa: we follow a kind of practice. during the day, to take time (the guide says every fifteen minutes

    but..) and drop all assumptions for 9 seconds, and then report here.

    Pia Iger: We have very open conversation here about the nature of reality

    cookieman Constantine: sounds like my kind of conversation

       How do you feel when new people say that?  


    Doug Sosa: people take to it amazingly well.

    Doug Sosa: So Pia was talking about the experience of waking up..

    Pia Iger: The group meets for discussion four times per day, every day at 1 a.m., 7 a.m., 1 p.m., and 7 p.m.(SL time). You are welcome to join

    cookieman Constantine: Thank you for the invite.

    Threedee Shepherd: Of course different members of the group will likely be at the various meetings Doug Sosa: of course most us don't make it to all, or even one, of the sessions..

    cookieman Constantine: If no one is here I will talk to the table : ) Threedee Shepherd: :D

    Pia Iger: Cool. We do record our conversation here. Are u ok with it?

    Pia Iger: Cookie?

    cookieman Constantine: I am fine with that.

    Doug Sosa: i love it, talk to the table. You bring some wisdom.

         Can’t wait to read future blog of Cookieman talking to the table ^.^  


    Pia Iger: Ok., back to my wake up moments, it feels very refreshing, and I almost feel very joyful to start a day.

    Pia Iger: but as the day goes on, the feeling worn out by chores.

    Doug Sosa: I've experimented quite a bit with this.

    Doug Sosa: When we are awake the inner mind (so to speak)..

    Threedee Shepherd: Pia, what are chores, things you do not want to do?

    Doug Sosa: and the outer world are connected. When we sleep we let go of the ties to the outer, but the mind, instead of stopping, is freer to play without constraint. You can notice

    Pia Iger: work, housework, so on. 3D

    Doug Sosa: ..as you are going to sleep, that thoughts turn from what is present outside to short dreams, memories, playful reordering..

    Doug Sosa: and that seems to me what creates the restfulness

    Doug Sosa: and the chores, or just continuous connection to the outside..

    Doug Sosa: is what tires us.

    cookieman Constantine: There are times where I appear to be awake but my mind is still attached to my pillow

    cookieman Constantine: I will go through my day and realize i am at work

    Threedee Shepherd: Pia, what I am exploring is how chores differ from "pleasures"

    Pia Iger: 3D, maybe you have point here, chores are things that I feel I have to do,

    Pia Iger: daily,

         7th guardain, Riddle, came in.  


    Threedee Shepherd: h i riddle

    Pia Iger: Hi, Riddle,

    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

    Threedee Shepherd: Are the chores things that need to get done?

    cookieman Constantine: Hello Riddle

    Pia Iger: yes.

    Doug Sosa: :)

    Threedee Shepherd: so how does that differ from things you have to do?

    Pia Iger: they are same to me.

    Riddle Sideways: hi everybody

    Doug Sosa: come sit :)

    Threedee Shepherd: are pleasures things you similarly are drawn to do?

    Riddle Sideways: hi everybody

    Thorberg Nordlicht: hello Riddle

    Pia Iger: Pleasures are different from chores. They are more energizing then chores.

    Doug Sosa: Thor, cookieman is new but fits right in

    Adelene Dawner: They are more engaging, you are more easily engaged by them?

    Adelene Dawner: *or you are

    Thorberg Nordlicht: surprising that cookieman found this group so quickly after coming into SL

    Threedee Shepherd: Of course, I experience the difference between chores and pleasures, too. What I am playing with is why we see them as different things. Both exercise our being.

    Thorberg Nordlicht: this group suites me well too -- certainly more than the SL "club" scene -- but it took me 18 months in SL to find a group like this

    Pia Iger: both exercise our being, but in different ways.

    Threedee Shepherd: I am fond of quoting Confucius'

    Analect 1.1. "To learn something and then put it into practice at the right time:is this not a joy?

    Threedee Shepherd: That can apply to lots of daily activities.

    Doug Sosa: how does the 9 sec work with chores or pleasures? Different?

    Pia Iger: hopeful it will bring more joy to chores?

    Doug Sosa: i am thinking maybe it is harder to get detachment from pleasures than from chores.

    Doug Sosa: I think i fell into an old trap. PaB is not detachment so much as letting being be.

    Pia Iger: take life 'as is', that what I understand

    Thorberg Nordlicht: to "let being be" practice "observing without judging"

    Riddle Sideways: yet not really letting Being be...more like playing with it

    Riddle Sideways: no judging

    Riddle Sideways: just play

         As it turned out, there was someone playing off-line :)  


    cookieman Constantine: sorry. my son was educating me on the ickyness if his fish sticks

    Pia Iger: Riddle, can you share with us how you understand the word "play" here?

    Pia Iger: (np, Cookie)

    Riddle Sideways: a very multifaceted word

    Riddle Sideways: play as fun, experiments, and shows

    Riddle Sideways: recently got much out of "watching" plays (Shakespeare

    Riddle Sideways: )

    Doug Sosa: cookie, come again.

    Riddle Sideways: mostly "playing" with how "I" play

    cookieman Constantine: sorry was readjusting screen.

    Doug Sosa: fish stick smears?

    cookieman Constantine: i wouldnt have left without saying bye

    Riddle Sideways: and I have very bad delays and network probsl tonight Riddle Sideways: I remember the fish stick days

    cookieman Constantine: something like that riddle

    Riddle Sideways: my son is now old enough to tell the non-ickyness of beer

        Further exploration of ‘play’.  


    Threedee Shepherd: <tangent> young male cubs (such as lions) engage in play fighting and know that play is the intention of the other, not injurious fighting

    Riddle Sideways: that is very much like this group

    Pia Iger: as in Playasbeing, I understand 'play" means "we explore in a way not too seriously, not too uptight"

    cookieman Constantine: thats is how they acquire most of their future fighting skills

    cookieman Constantine: uptight.. kind of like my last pair of sneakers Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm, how do they "know" it's safe play, I am wondering?

    Doug Sosa: we probably don't like to acknowledge them, but we all have them.

    Riddle Sideways: theirs is a language between them

    Doug Sosa: Hey great question Three

    cookieman Constantine: I think it's in the manual thorberg " )

    Doug Sosa: But you should know :)

    Pia Iger: their way of knowing, somehow between animals

    Adelene Dawner: body language.

    Threedee Shepherd: shows how unimportant words can be

    Pia Iger: ah:)

    Riddle Sideways thinks body language uses word equivalents

         Came in 8th guardain, Solo!


    Threedee Shepherd: hello solo

    Pia Iger: Hi, Solo

    Riddle Sideways: hi solobill

    Solobill Laville: Hello, everyone

    cookieman Constantine: yeah its sort of like calling a friend a jerk joking and smiling and then saying it with malice and intent

    cookieman Constantine: Hello solo

    Thorberg Nordlicht: hello

    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

    Riddle Sideways: now, how do we do that in SL

    cookieman Constantine: Let me check the manual......

    Riddle Sideways: type nasty thing then a :)

    Pia Iger: time can tell...

    Adelene Dawner: Actually in my experience, most body language doesn't translate to words well at all...and, specific behaviors don't even translate to specific concepts - it's the interplay, more.

    Doug Sosa: need to say bye, so "bye":)

    Riddle Sideways: if nobody types "lol"

    Adelene Dawner: At least, with animals. I'm not so good with human body language.

    Threedee Shepherd: bye Doug

    cookieman Constantine: bye Doug

    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend

    Thorberg Nordlicht: i, too, must say good night

    Threedee Shepherd: goodnight

    Solobill Laville: night, thor

    cookieman Constantine: Night Thor

         More about ‘no words’.  


    Pia Iger: I read a book about mothering. During the first month, baby can communicate great amount with mother, of cause without any words.

    Threedee Shepherd: certainly

    Pia Iger: so there are a lot knowing and communication happening outside words.

    cookieman Constantine: I wonder what thoughts an infant would think when first entering the world

    cookieman Constantine: "dude.....its cold"

    Solobill Laville: :)

    Adelene Dawner: That kind of communication seems to be discounted a lot, at least in conversation like this, because it feels more like intuition than communication.

    Riddle Sideways: more important is why we grow into things words are the only communication media

    cookieman Constantine: "i'm out.... It's bright.... Oh the manual said scream and breathe"

    Pia Iger: hehe

    Riddle Sideways: lol

    Solobill Laville: Can you expand that a bit Riddle?

         Tonight’s 9th guardian walked in. Bertrum pitched in immediately, and learnt something new, which approved to be useful right away.


    Pia Iger: Hi, Bertrum

    Riddle Sideways: not really, well good people I also need to leave. was nice to see the 7pm group.

    cookieman Constantine: Hello Bertrum

    Bertrum Quan: hi everyone

    Solobill Laville: hehe, bye Riddle

    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

    Solobill Laville: Hey, bert

    Riddle Sideways: hi and bye bertrum

    Threedee Shepherd: bye riddle, hello bertrum cookieman Constantine: Night riddle. good to meet you Riddle Sideways is Offline

    Pia Iger: Bertrum, we were talking about knowing beyond words.

    Bertrum Quan: Intuition.

    Bertrum Quan: Has that been discussed?

    Threedee Shepherd: embodiment

    Solobill Laville: Experiential knowledge?

    cookieman Constantine: more along the lines of instinct Solobill Laville: But instinct can bo wrong, true? So what did we actually "know"?

    Pia Iger: and don't our intuition and instincts grow as we get older?

    Solobill Laville: I think they can Pia, but you can also close down those channels too

    Pia Iger: right

    Bertrum Quan: There are natural instincts that we have inherently... we may not always interpret them well...

    Solobill Laville: I feel I was more intuitive in a way when I was younger

    cookieman Constantine: i would guess i would say so

    Pia Iger: any example, Bertrum?

    Solobill Laville: run away?

    Bertrum Quan: I'm not sure is a guarantee of wisdom or being Deeping and accurately in touch with our natural instincts...

    Bertrum Quan: left out the word "age"

    Solobill Laville: Agreed

    Bertrum Quan: wisdom deeply

    Threedee Shepherd: I suggest our body (including feelings) is more in touch with the environment it is making and in, than are words. It's interpretation that's *messy*

    cookieman Constantine: like a fish stick

    Threedee Shepherd: :)

    Bertrum Quan: In my view an example can be what we "know" about the natural world...

    Solobill Laville: Using our senses?

    Bertrum Quan: Some people through instinct, experience, wisdom, etc. can know if it will rain...

    Bertrum Quan: Others will not.

    cookieman Constantine: well folks time for me to say nite nite

    cookieman Constantine: thank you for the invite and see you soon.

    Solobill Laville: night

    Pia Iger: nice meeting you, welcome back, cookie

    Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend

    Threedee Shepherd: goodnight

    Bertrum Quan: goodnight

    Bertrum Quan: I believe the same instinct, experience, wisdom combine to help us understand what it means to be human...

    Bertrum Quan: And to see the nature of being...

    Pia Iger: true, I was thinking, if we only live or behave logically, how boring life would be.

    Bertrum Quan: Logic is not the same as instinct or intuition...

    Solobill Laville: Right, but neither is experience or wisdom, imo Threedee Shepherd: true, and even worse, absolute logic is impossible because we do not know all the factors.

    Bertrum Quan: imo?

    Solobill Laville: Instinct and intuition are beyond thought, but experience or wisdom are not necessarily so

    Solobill Laville: in my opinion

    Solobill Laville: imo

    Solobill Laville: :)

    Bertrum Quan: Okay, thanks.

    Pia Iger: Play may be the one connecting all of this?!

    Threedee Shepherd: what happens if we just say instinct, intuition, experience, wisdom ARE.

    Solobill Laville: Fine by me, Threedee! :)

    Bertrum Quan: Yes... that works imo...

    Solobill Laville: (well done, Bert!) imo

    Bertrum Quan: thanks!

         My intuition told me it was good time to take the break.   


    Pia Iger: can we continue next time?

    Solobill Laville: sure, Pia

    Bertrum Quan: sure.

    Threedee Shepherd: certainly, and many times after that, I'm sure :)

    Pia Iger: :)

    Threedee Shepherd: goodnight all



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