2008.09.28 13:00 - Terry Pratchetts visit

    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Avastu, Quel.
    Avastu Maruti: finish the dishes?
    Quilty Bookmite: My routine changes all the time. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Corvi.
    Quel Karillion: Hi Avastu, Quilty, Corvi.
    Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya'll
    Quilty Bookmite: Corvi, in an idle moment I looked up your name. Now I know thta you are a crow of some sort. :-)
    Quel Karillion smiles.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Corvus is alot of stuff...and Corva is just nonsense.
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah right. :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: The common little american kinds.
    Quilty Bookmite: Should I turn on the recorder?
    Quel Karillion: Hi Gaya :)
    Faenik: Corvi!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles at Avastu. nice to see you again
    Start the recorder: Gaya, Quel, Faenik, Avastu, Quilty

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Gaya!
    Quel Karillion: Hi Gaya :)
    Faenik: Corvi!
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Gaya.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles at Avastu. nice to see you again
    Avastu Maruti: love to you my friend
    Quilty Bookmite: I seem to be getting bad lag on my text.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. It seems to have sorted itself out.
    Quilty Bookmite: Started the recorder. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, one of them anyway.
    Faenik: ah :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Does anyone have a topic for discussion?

    Adams arrives, Terry Pratchett is anticipated

    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Adams.
    Adams Rubble: Hi Quilty :)
    Quel Karillion: Hi Adams :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: Hi Avastu, Gaya, Quel, Corvi :)
    Avastu Maruti: love to you my friend
    Adams Rubble thinking it is very quiet
    Quilty Bookmite: I hope it is. I'm concerned that it is just the lag I have been seeing.
    Adams Rubble: testing lag 1, 2 , 3
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: I've just heard that my favourite author is going to do a live Q&A in SL!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Who is that?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Quilty Bookmite: Terry Pratchett.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow
    Gaya Ethaniel wonders how Pratchette's av may look like
    Quilty Bookmite: 9th October apparently.
    Adams Rubble has to plead ignorance

    Quel introduced acceptance for the topic,

    Quel Karillion: how about acceptance for today's topic?
    Faenik: why not?
    Quilty Bookmite: He wrote the Discworld novels, although you may not have heard of them.
    Adams Rubble: Hello Udge :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Fantasy / English humour.
    Adams Rubble: Ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.terrypratchettbooks.com/
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Rubble: ty Gaya

    Udge arrives..

    Udge Watanabe: evening everyone :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins! Yay!
    Quel Karillion: Hi Udge :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Sadly he has been diagnosed with an acute form of Alzheimers and may not live for much longer.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Udge.
    Gaya Ethaniel: acceptance...  please say more?
    Avastu Maruti: love to you my friends
    Gaya Ethaniel: that's sad...
    Udge Watanabe: hello quilty, quel, corvi, avastu, gaya, adams
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Quilty Bookmite: Did I miss something?
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Would be interesting. :-)
    Quel Karillion: How do you accept?
    Gaya Ethaniel: first by seeing for what it is

    Avastu disappears..sort of

    Quilty Bookmite: Adams seems to be sitting on Avastu's lap.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Avastu has left Quilty
    Faenik loves wells!
    Adams Rubble thinks Avastu left us
    Udge Watanabe: his ghost perhaps.
    Quilty Bookmite: Spooky. I can still see him but sitting facing away from the table.
    Adams Rubble: He is offline
    Adams Rubble sorry to interrupt
    Quilty Bookmite: Perhaps I had better reboot.
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry. Will be back in a couple of minutes, I hope.
    Adams Rubble: no need Quilty, I'll move
    Quilty Bookmite: No, I seem to be missing things.
    Faenik: make sure you brush your teeth well tonight Gaya
    Udge Watanabe chuckles
    Gaya Ethaniel: shush Faenik

    statements and questions

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have been talking/thinking alot about accepting myself as being...
    Adams Rubble: Hmm. I seem to be missing things too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or not doing it.
    Udge Watanabe: mm?
    Gaya Ethaniel listens
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am having trouble with that concept, with understanding the idea of acceptance..despite talking it over and intellectually kinda getting it...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I don't know that I have a question...this might be a bit of a dud...
    Gaya Ethaniel: shoot Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: But it's what has been on my mind from the practice lately.
    Udge Watanabe: we could discuss statements as well as questions.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahahha..I think I'm having too much trouble to even make a statement.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: still working on that.
    Quel Karillion: wb Quilty :)
    Udge Watanabe: is it the idea or the act of accepting that troubles you?
    Adams Rubble: wb Quilty :)
    Udge Watanabe: wb quilty


    seeing instead of accepting

    Gaya Ethaniel: the word 'accept' can be confusing to me... I use 'see' instead of 'accept' Corvi
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks. Sorry about that.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel: accept sounds as though I need to 'do' something about it
    Gaya Ethaniel: while 'see' is just that
    Faenik loves wells!

    Perfect as you are

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Adelene Dawner: You're perfect as you are.
    Gaya Ethaniel: all I have had to do is 'open and turn my eyes to whatever it is'
    Quel Karillion: Yes, it could be called just seeing things for what they are.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Gaya Ethaniel: for me, you're perfect as you are means 'I am what I am'
    Udge Watanabe smiles. A simple statement but very hard to believe (speaking for myself)
    Quel Karillion: as for doing, well, it sort of is the opposite of doing :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: well... I am what I am and I'm ok with that to be more precise
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It's the ok with that bit that is so very hard.
    Adams Rubble: Our inner person is perfect; our "self" may have problems with acceptance
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Udge.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Udge Watanabe: mmhmm

    where the glitch is

    Quel Karillion: because, to see yourself for what you are, it's necessary to stop judging yourself.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: or comparing
    Quel Karillion finds sentences of the form "I should be/do this/that" or "I shouldn't ..." to be very visible indicator of self judgement
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Quel Karillion: so, whenever I notice myself thinking "should" or "shouldn't" it sort of raises a red flag right there.
    Quilty Bookmite: Popeye philosophy?
    Quel Karillion: red flag that reads "pay attention"
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles


    the PaB 411...

    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Davmar.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Welcome, DAv...
    Udge Watanabe: hello davmar
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: come sit down?
    Udge Watanabe: nice pulse piercings ;-)
    Faenik loves wells!
    Davmar Hykova: hello all
    Quel Karillion: the should is there often to hide true things such as "I want" or "I don't want"
    Quel Karillion: Hello Davmar :)
    Quilty Bookmite: have you been here before Davmar?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks about the I want, don't want..
    Davmar Hykova: thank you seems you are a jewely expert
    Adams Rubble: The want seems to indicate desire
    Davmar Hykova: no I havent
    Quilty Bookmite: Do you know about Play As being?
    Davmar Hykova: no sorry i don't
    Davmar Hykova: yet
    Adams Rubble: no problem :)
    Quilty Bookmite: http://playasbeing.wiki.is
    Davmar Hykova: But Corvi did explain a little
    Quilty Bookmite: We are a group that experiments with perception of reality. :-)
    Davmar Hykova: my Finnish is a bit lacking
    Adams Rubble: mine too :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahahah
    Quilty Bookmite: If you look on the website I just sent there are some short excerts from discussions which explains what the group is about.
    Quel Karillion: Voin minä suomeakin visertää :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Mine is non-existent. :-)
    Adams Rubble: mine too :)
    Quilty Bookmite: I need to ask you, do you mind if your words are recorded on a Wiki page?
    Davmar Hykova: no
    Quilty Bookmite: Thank you. :-)
    Davmar Hykova: but that page wont open for me
    Adams Rubble: should there be a slash after the is?
    Quilty Bookmite: oops. sorry, mistyped.
    Davmar Hykova: yes that wouldnt stop it
    Quilty Bookmite: http://playasbeing.wik.is
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Quilty Bookmite: There was an extra i in there.
    Davmar Hykova: that works for me thx
    Quilty Bookmite: For some reason cut and paste isn;t working.

    acceptance, seeing and attachement

    Adams Rubble: Corvi, sometimes are attachments seem very formidable, that they can't be bridged
     Adams Rubble: It may be less acceptance that bridges them than the fact that we just see them clearly and they no longer pose a threat
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Faenik loves wells!
    Quel Karillion: you could say acceptance is knowing yourself.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Faenik loves wells!
    Quilty Bookmite: Would it be possible for someone else to post the chat log? I seem to be missing out on great chunks of it. I can see people typing but nothing gets said.


    Acceptance, assumptions and not doing

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think..the hard part is getting there...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: the other part of the message is..."don't do"
    Adams Rubble: yes Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: stop trying.
    Quel Karillion: when you try to do something, there's an assumption behind it.
    Quel Karillion: assumptions that you can't
    Quel Karillion: if you just do something, that assumption is not there.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire looks very interested here...
    Udge Watanabe: huh.
    Adams Rubble: could you explain more Fael?


    Trying and making effort are two different things

    Gaya Ethaniel: trying and making effort are two different things?
    Quel Karillion: it's another clue you can get from words.
    Quel Karillion: if you speak of trying, you're assuming you can't.
    Udge Watanabe remembers Yoda.
    Faenik: indeed?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Well...as the core of the question for me right now is how to sleep through an entire night...
    Quel Karillion raises an eyebrow.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and I seem not to be able to....
    Udge Watanabe: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'."
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: try is the operative word.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: argh
    Udge Watanabe: lol
    Quel Karillion: Ah, yes, wise words :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Quilty Bookmite: The wisdom of Star Wars. :-)
    Adams Rubble: Losing sleep is a problem

    Try is about excuses?  Turmoil is about insights.

    Quel Karillion: when you feel the need to use the word 'try' about doing something, you're giving excuses you can point to when you fail.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire looks quite surprised..."yes, I think you are right."
    Adams Rubble: but it indicates turmoil.
    Adams Rubble: Often when we have turmoil is when we get the most insights
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Quel Karillion: the important question then would be, why do you need excuses?
    Quel Karillion: and for whom
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks quietly about this...

    Bye Quilty and Adams

    Adams Rubble: It was good seeing you all. bye for now :)
    Quel Karillion: See you later Adams :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thank you Adams.
    Udge Watanabe: bye adams
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Adams.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Udge Watanabe: gaya, do you have the link to that "Not good enough" MP3 to hand?
    Udge Watanabe: I'd like to suggest it to Corvi, if you haven#t heard it yet.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Oh, I have..*grins at Gaya*
    Quilty Bookmite: I must go too. Bed time. I will try and piece together as much of the log as I have. If anyone feels like send me or posting the whole thing, i would be very grateful.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thank you, quilty...
    Udge Watanabe: ok, good,.
    Udge Watanabe: bye
    Quilty Bookmite: Thank you. Goodnight.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Udge Watanabe: bye quilty, take care
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.

    "trying" to explain

    Davmar Hykova: isnt concentrating to much on the meaning of words purely an exercise in simantics
    Udge Watanabe: where did the "too much" come from? was that before I arrived?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: no...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Dav...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: which part of the conversation seems to be concentrating too much on the meaning of words?
    Davmar Hykova: the trying concept
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes.
    Davmar Hykova: where trying was deemed to be preparing to fail
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I see...
    Davmar Hykova: to that word whilst it can be contexed in such a way
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think..the thing is...I am "trying" to understand a concept....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and find a way to sleep...
    Udge Watanabe nods
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and find a way to know that it's alright to be what ever I am.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and...somewhere in those words is a way to stop trying and just do it.
    Davmar Hykova: but what then if you try to fail, are you preparing to succeed
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am soooo glad you asked that.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: cause...it's helping me.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I don't know that I can really answer your question...you might just be right.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm not sure.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs at Dav's last comment..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahahhah
    Gaya Ethaniel: ...mm... what's wrong with failing?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe indeed.
    Faenik: indeed?
    Davmar Hykova: well nothing as long as you didn't set out to succeed otherwise everything
    Udge Watanabe chuckles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmmmm
    Corvuscorva Nightfire considers....
    Davmar Hykova: its just language that for most people is used in a flippant way purely as a form of communication


    Udge Watanabe: one of the madder of my profs took us to the shooting gallery at a local fair for a lesson in perspective.
    Udge Watanabe: You can take a gun and try to shoot the little metal ducks as they roll past, taking your time, aiming carefully
    Udge Watanabe: or you can try to maintain a constant rate of fire but hit NOTHING while doing so.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods....
    Udge Watanabe: They’re actually both equally difficult.
    Udge Watanabe: the pressure of knowing "I must shoot right now" and aiming between the ducks is enormous.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Oh!
    Davmar Hykova: but that is statistical
    Udge Watanabe: when you aim at them, they seem tiny, but if you are aiming at the space between, htey are enormous.
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Davmar Hykova: or could spray bullets wildly with no aim and hit a few ducks
    Udge Watanabe: no, it’s practical. I have held the gun and tried to do it.
    Davmar Hykova: and a few passersby lol
    Davmar Hykova: pot luck
    Udge Watanabe: yes, ok, I left out a few steps. "Shoot towards the targets as usual, without endangering any persons."
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.

    Bye Gaya

    Gaya Ethaniel: time to go. lovely to see you all again. good day/night
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Davmar Hykova: bye
    Udge Watanabe: goodnight gaya, take care.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Gaya...thank you!
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty Udge

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