2009.02.27 13:00 - Exceptations & Love

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Solobill Laville. The comments are by Solobill.

    I sat in the Playgoda for a couple of minutes before I was joined by Wol, Fael, and Susi.

        Wol Euler: hello solo, susi, fael
        Fael Illyar: Hi Wol, Solo, Susi :)
        Solobill Laville: Hello Wol, Fael, Susi! :)
        Wol Euler: yet another new hairstyle. Nice!
        Susi Alcott: Hi Wol, Solo and Fael
        Fael Illyar: new hairstyle ... me? or solo?
        Solobill Laville: Or Susi? ;)
        Fael Illyar: I guess Solo :)
        Wol Euler: solo, you are still rezzing ...
        Susi Alcott: lol
        Solobill Laville: yes, I had my hair for quite a while and noticed it wasn't growing..so I had to do something about it ;)
        Fael Illyar: I'm pretty sure susi hasn't changed hairstyles :)
        Solobill Laville: hehe
        Wol Euler: :)
        Solobill Laville: Is everyone well? Feeling any better Wol?
        Fael Illyar: I'm well :) How are you Solo?
        Solobill Laville: Very well! Thanks!
        Solobill Laville smiles
        Wol Euler: not really, but thanks for asking.
        Solobill Laville: ah, sorry, those things can drag on...
        Fael Illyar: Would you like to talk about them, Wol?
        Wol Euler: meh.
        Fael Illyar smiles 'Thought so.'
        Wol Euler: it's just a pretty grim cold/flu, I'll be all right in a week or so. I hope to spend the weekend asleep.
        Fael Illyar: Ah, I had a pretty similar one. It's been going around it seems
        Fael Illyar: took me a few weeks to completely recover
        Wol Euler nods.
        Fael Illyar: but do really spend some time resting, That's important :)
        Wol Euler: I remember, that was in January, it took ages for you to get back on your feet
        Fael Illyar: Well... not all delays in my things were that.... where'd she go?

    Wol had vanished...

        Solobill Laville: Wow, quick crash...
        Fael Illyar: looked like a teleport to me.
        Solobill Laville: ah...perhaps slip of the click ;)
        Solobill Laville: I've done that....
        Fael Illyar: ah, wb Wol :)
        Wol Euler: meh
        Solobill Laville: TP or crash?
        Fael Illyar: Yes, I've misclicked a landmark my accident myself too.
        Susi Alcott: wb Wol
        Wol Euler: TP, pressed "accept" in stead of "cancel"

    Pema joins us (nice to see so much more him lately :)).

        Fael Illyar: Hi Pema :)
        Solobill Laville: Ah! Fael had it right then!
        Susi Alcott: hi Pema
        Solobill Laville: Hello, Pema! :)
        Wol Euler: hello pema
        Pema Pera: Hi there, Susi, Fael, Solo, Wol!
        Fael Illyar: Would you like a hug, Pema? :)
        Fael Illyar thought to ask for a change instead of just doing.
        Solobill Laville: Welcome to the Friday afternoon session!!
        Pema Pera: hehehe
        Pema Pera: I'll leave that up to you, Fael
        Solobill Laville: You never know where these Friday afternoon sessions go...
        Fael Illyar smiles.

    And Gen too!

        Fael Illyar: Hi Gen :)
        Pema Pera: Hi Genesis!
        Solobill Laville: Gen! :)
        Susi Alcott: hi gen
        Wol Euler: helo gen
        genesis Zhangsun: Hi Fael, Pema, Wol, and Susi :)
        Fael Illyar: Oh, nice hair, Gen :)
        genesis Zhangsun: and Solobill :)
        genesis Zhangsun: ty
        genesis Zhangsun: nice harp :)
        Fael Illyar: ah, outfit too (just rezzed properly)
        genesis Zhangsun: oops bow
        Fael Illyar smiles.
        Pema Pera still hasn't gotten used to the transformation of Gen . . .
        Pema Pera: such a different image!
        Fael Illyar: Feels like she's finally let her expressive side show properly :)
        Solobill Laville: It is good to mix it up every once in a while, methinks!
        Pema Pera: and at the same time also more subdued
        Pema Pera: in shades of grey
        Fael Illyar: It takes a while to dare to go all out :)
        Fael Illyar wonders if she's there yet.
        Wol Euler hands a landmark for the shop where I get my rubber and latex dresses :)
        Solobill Laville seems to remember Fael fairly "all out" from the get-go, if you get my meaning... :)
        Pema Pera: did you have any topic in mind, Solo? You mentioned the surprise element in these sessions . . ..
        Solobill Laville: well, you never know...
        Solobill Laville: I can always pull one out of my hat...but does anyone care to bring one up?
        genesis Zhangsun: ty Wol :)
        Fael Illyar: Well, when I came to PaB, I still wasn't comfortable wearing any other hair but black :)
        Wol Euler: yw :)
        Solobill Laville: Ah! :)
        Fael Illyar: and pink would've been out of question :P
        Fael Illyar: as well as bursting hearts like this :)
        Solobill Laville: Whoa :)


    We sat for a couple of minutes in silence so I threw out a topic (which I subsequently misspelled right out of the gates).

        Solobill Laville: Well...here is something I've been thinking about...
        Fael Illyar: or like this :
        Solobill Laville: Exceptations...on ourselves, on others, and are they different, really? Or is it all just on us?
        Pema Pera loves "exceptations" . . . .
        Wol Euler: yes, a delightful slip
        Fael Illyar: do you mean exceptation or expectations? :)
        Pema Pera: exceptional invitations?
        Solobill Laville: Whoopsie daisy..
        Solobill Laville: I take exception to your expectations of spelling accuracy ;)
        Wol Euler chuckles
        Pema Pera: just an invitation, Solo, for more creativity!
        Solobill Laville: hehe
        Pema Pera: exceptionally so
        Fael Illyar: I've found that what I expect from others tend to be things I expect of myself too... although not strictly so, I tend to be somewhat uncomfortable expecting something of someone else I wouldn't expect from myself.
        Pema Pera: the fun really starts at the moment we can drop expectations, even for a short time, both of ourselves and others . . . .

    Myna joins us, then Storm.

        Fael Illyar: Hi Myna :)
        Pema Pera: greetings, Myna!
        Wol Euler: hello myna
        Solobill Laville: Hi, Myna! :)
        Susi Alcott: hi Myna
        Solobill Laville: Hello, Storm! :)
        Wol Euler: he's changed his mind :)
        Pema Pera: Hi Storm!
        Fael Illyar: Yes, it's refreshing to take a breather from expecting. Has helped me realize I've been expecting too much from myself at times.
        Fael Illyar: Hi Storm :)
        Storm Nordwind: Hi
        Pema Pera: how so, Fael?
        Wol Euler: hello storm
        genesis Zhangsun: Hey Storm
        Fael Illyar: Like expecting myself to be able to keep someone from committing suicide for example.
        Susi Alcott: hi Storm
        Fael Illyar: (with just long distance communications to use for that)
        Fael Illyar: but ... I guess that's more of the more extreme case.
        Pema Pera: yes, and very hard indeed . . .
        Myna Maven: Fael, I know that has to be painful.
        Fael Illyar: after I stopped requiring that from myself, I found that the end result was that I was better able to do that as well.
        Solobill Laville: Getting out of your way, in a sense?
        Fael Illyar: Yes, exactly
        Fael Illyar: I didn't require it from myself so I no longer feared failing to achieve it. Thus didn't have the fear in the way making things more difficult.
        Wol Euler nods


    For some reason the muse moved me to suggest talking about love.

        Solobill Laville: Can we make a small leap, and talk about "love"?
        Fael Illyar: Certainly :)
        Wol Euler: as an expectation?
        Solobill Laville: ok, big leap in a way
        Solobill Laville: No, clean subject change, if no one disagress that is
        Solobill Laville: Ok then, for some reason "love" has come up a few times in the past days...
        Solobill Laville: Perhaps, we could offer out some ideas as to the different "types" of love?
        Fael Illyar: do you mean love combined with different expectations?
        Storm Nordwind: What do you mean by love anyway?
        Solobill Laville: (I could also mention, that this started a few days back with a general warning about love getting in the way of spiritual compassion (e.g. Boddhisattvic)
        Solobill Laville: Great place too start, Storm! I have no idea :)
        Solobill Laville: COuld be with expectations, Fael...
        Fael Illyar has difficulty seeing much difference between love and compassion.
        Myna Maven: If one is talking about love getting in the way of spiritual compassion, do they mean as love being a form of partiality.
        genesis Zhangsun: so a higher sort of love v. "lower" forms of love?
        Fael Illyar: ... well, other than the name.
        Solobill Laville: Yes, all that :)
        genesis Zhangsun: that distinction right off seems quite artificial to me instinctively
        Storm Nordwind: Someone once said, "Love is not something you feel, it's something you do." I wonder if that view has any bearing on your thoughts Solo?
        Solobill Laville considers
        genesis Zhangsun: what about love is something you are
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Solobill Laville: I can love my shoes, I can love my house, I can love my family, I can love everything...is there a difference?
        genesis Zhangsun: those are types of love dependent on something else
        Susi Alcott: is love same with to do; to love ?
        Wol Euler: I would hope that the love you feel for a well-made cheeseburger is qualitatively different from the love you feel for your son.
        Storm Nordwind: I doubt you can do *all* those things Solo
        genesis Zhangsun: hehe :)
        Wol Euler: perhaps we need more words...
        Myna Maven: I love my husband and son in a partial sense. That is something I wouldn't want to change. For instance, a child needs that sort of partial love.
        Solobill Laville: Well, it is for the sake of talking about it, we could substitute pronouns, "I", "we", "you"...just trying to generate soeme thoughts :)
        genesis Zhangsun: how about less words
        Myna Maven: It is part of our being human.
        Fael Illyar: Well, the love for a well-made cheeseburger and the love for your son ... the way of expressing them is different.
        genesis Zhangsun: how about no "I", "we" or "you"
        Solobill Laville: Myna, what do mean by "partial love"?
        Storm Nordwind: The idea of "love for a well-made cheeseburger" is meaningless to me
        Myna Maven: The difference between a general love for all and a specific love, such as maternal or the love for one's partner.
        Wol Euler: an extreme example, Storm; or perhaps I am hungry.
        Solobill Laville: Thanks, Myna
        Wol Euler: [13:33] Myna Maven: If one is talking about love getting in the way of spiritual compassion, do they mean as love being a form of partiality.
        Storm Nordwind: It comes down to "cherishing". You like the cheeseburger because you cherish yourself. But that is not love. You love your son because you put your interests above your on. That is love.
        Storm Nordwind: *own
        Storm Nordwind: *his interests
        Myna Maven: Yes, Storm.
        genesis Zhangsun: yes perhaps it is not about parsing out the different forms of love but rather the many other emotions, sensations, illusions that get mistaken for love
        Storm Nordwind: Much of what people call love is simply self-cherishing attachment and not love at all
        genesis Zhangsun: yes
        Wol Euler: so "love" is the wrong word for attachment to things from which I take comfort/pleasure/etc
        Storm Nordwind: In my view, yes Wol
        Wol Euler nods. Could we say that love is that which moves outwards?
        genesis Zhangsun: so is the definition of love then about putting another's interests above your own?
        Susi Alcott: >genesis _/!\_
        Storm Nordwind: I think both those are a good start, yes
        Fael Illyar: perhaps not interests? I'd prefer needs.
        genesis Zhangsun: Wol's love moving outward is certainly broader
        Myna Maven: So then what some might term as a willingness for self-sacrifice is embodied in love.
        genesis Zhangsun: yes Fael needs is better
        Storm Nordwind: To ascertain needs, you need empathy and compassion = understand, and not sympathy
        Storm Nordwind: So that is where your link between love and compassion come from
        Wol Euler thinks of "A tale of two cities" and nods at loving self-sacrifice.
        genesis Zhangsun: yes a recognition that another's needs is not separate from your own
        genesis Zhangsun: hence why I suggest dropping I, we, and you
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Storm Nordwind: We still need I/we/you because so many other think that way. They do not see Being as we may do, or emptiness, or any of those experiences that remove all separation
        genesis Zhangsun: yes Storm
        genesis Zhangsun: but dropping the I gives a more accurate description of the activity of love
        Solobill Laville: So, what then is love's activity?
        genesis Zhangsun: oh crap...
        genesis Zhangsun: I have to answer that
        Wol Euler laughs
        Myna Maven: :)
        Solobill Laville: Anyone :)
        Fael Illyar smiles.
        Fael Illyar wonders if it can be expressed in words.
        Storm Nordwind has been ineluctably drawn into this conversation and has been unable to catch up on three week's missed pheno workshops! :)
        Solobill Laville: Storm, what's love got to do with it? ;)
        genesis Zhangsun: its not love's activity- love is the activity
        genesis Zhangsun: so lets take the view that there is just love
        genesis Zhangsun: and no one doing that loving
        genesis Zhangsun: that everything is love, our entire existence is love
        Wol Euler struggles for a word. Love's activity is what the OT calls "blessing"
        Storm Nordwind: One of love's "activities" or properties is to remove the delusion of hatred, which comes from self-cherishing and the self-grasping ignorance of separation. Which is a complicated way of agreeing with genesis!
        Solobill Laville nods
        Solobill Laville: Wol, what is "OT"?
        Wol Euler: Old Testament
        genesis Zhangsun: yes Wol
        Solobill Laville: thx
        Wol Euler: (showing my roots)
        Storm Nordwind: Mr. Y's book
        Fael Illyar: When there's love, there's happyness.
        Wol Euler smiles and nods
        Solobill Laville: Yahweh?
        Storm Nordwind smiles at Solo
        Solobill Laville: (just trying' to hang...) :)
        Solobill Laville: Is happiness an outcome then? Or already there and uncovered, so to speak?
        Storm Nordwind: An outcome of what, Solo?
        Solobill Laville: [13:54] Fael Illyar: When there's love, there's happyness.
        Fael Illyar: not sure there's a difference :)
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Storm Nordwind: I see happiness spontaneously arising from a peaceful mind
        genesis Zhangsun: what about the relationship between compassion and love, can you have one without the other?
        Storm Nordwind: Perhaps love and peace are interwined because they come from a correct view of reality
        genesis Zhangsun: and a correct view of reality alleviates suffering
        Susi Alcott: imo all of the people do have love, because there's no life wtihout love
        Storm Nordwind nods
        genesis Zhangsun: something I heard....at the time workshop which resonated with me
        Wol Euler: perhaps happiness is the byproduct of right view and right action.

    At this point, dear reader, if you have gotten this far you are probably with us on the topic at hand...Fael felt her own muse calling and demonstrated love in action. She stood up and walked to the far end of the circle of sitters, which started with Gen, then stood behind each and every one of us, in order, saying "I love you"...It was quite a PaB moment...Thank you, Fael.


        Fael Illyar: I love you Genesis
        Fael Illyar: I love you Wol
        genesis Zhangsun: I love you too Fael :)
        Fael Illyar: I love you Solo.
        Fael Illyar: I love you Susi
        Solobill Laville is smiling
        Wol Euler smiles. Thank you Fael, love you too.
        Fael Illyar: I love you Pema
        Fael Illyar: I love you Storm.
        Pema Pera: same here, Fael :)
        Fael Illyar: I love you Myna.

    It was just about the top of the hour.

        Pema Pera: love you & leave you, for now, Fael -- have to go to the Kira Cafe for the phenomenology workshop, I'm afraid
        Storm Nordwind: Yes you too Fael
        Myna Maven: :) Thank you Fael. I love you, Fael.
        Susi Alcott: ...just had a chat with Fael on day that it's not so often said ...
        Myna Maven: Yes, I have to get over to the cafe also
        Wol Euler: bye pema, enjoy the evening
        Pema Pera: c u everybody!
        Storm Nordwind: So we shall fly!
        Solobill Laville: Bye, Pema :)
        Fael Illyar: See you later Pema :)
        Pema Pera: yes, Susi?
        Wol Euler: bye myna and storm
        Myna Maven: Bye.
        genesis Zhangsun: me too :) lets go!!!
        Wol Euler: and bye gen
        Susi Alcott: sorry I'm so slow
        genesis Zhangsun: bring the love to phenomenology
        genesis Zhangsun: bye Wol
        Pema Pera: go ahead Susi!
        Solobill Laville: Bye, folks, take the love with you!
        Fael Illyar: See you later Wol :)
        Wol Euler: bye fael,
        Wol Euler: and hello fefonz! just in time for the farewells
        genesis Zhangsun: Fefonz time to go to Pheno!
        Fael Illyar: Oh, wait, I'm confused with who's going again :)
        Susi Alcott: _/!\_
        Solobill Laville: Heya, Fefonz :)
        Pema Pera: bfn
        Fefonz Quan: yes, opn my way to pheno :)
        Susi Alcott: to all who's going :)
        Fefonz Quan: Hi and BYe all :)
        Solobill Laville: Bye, Fef
        Wol Euler: bye fefonz, take care
        Susi Alcott: hi Fef
        Solobill Laville: That was a nice example of "love activity", thank you Wol :)
        Fael Illyar smiles.
        Wol Euler: eh?

    As the others go the workshop, Miguelito arrives.

        Fael Illyar: Hi Miguelito :)
        Susi Alcott: hi Miguelito
        Solobill Laville: Hello, MiguelitoM4
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Hello to all. I'm glad to be here
        Solobill Laville: :) Glad to have you here!
        Solobill Laville: Have you been by before?
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: It's been a long time since I've been able to attend, with others here :)
        Fael Illyar: Ah, not new to PaB then :)
        Solobill Laville: OK, so you know that we record chat and post it to our wiki, and you are OK with that?
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: I'm fine with recording. I go to the wiki sometimes to look at other chats
        Solobill Laville: :)
        Fael Illyar smiles.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Honestly I love the PaB concept/ideology/philosophy
        Fael Illyar: no official one here :)
        Solobill Laville: Wonderful! Anything in particular?
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: I'm still trying to get the full idea wrapped up. I think that so much of life can be experience öutside the box"
        Solobill Laville nods
        Fael Illyar likes the expression "outside the box".
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: I run into people that who are so caught up in the static ideas/perception of how life should be lived and who they are. As conservative as I am in many ways, I guess I very liberal in others
        Wol Euler smiles
        Solobill Laville: Some traditions simply reinforce how good an outlook "don't really know" can be :) Very open....
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: I'm trying to teach my daughters that what we have materially doesn't make us who we are.
        Solobill Laville: Good lesson
        Wol Euler nods emphatically.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: When we're stripped down to nothing, that's when we begin to see our true essence. I hope
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Fael, I recall on my first encounter here, you were present. Nice to 'see you'again
        Solobill Laville: Perhaps nothing in a "self" sense, keep them clothed...it's cold out there! hehe
        Solobill Laville: Wol was?
        Fael Illyar: Hello again Miguelito :)
        Solobill Laville: Ah, Fael
        Solobill Laville: For example, can you desribe the sunset really, I can't?
        Solobill Laville: I mean, I cannot
        Solobill Laville: How is it beautiful, dunno :) who cares? Beautiful is enough
        Fael Illyar: It's more like when we stop trying to decide what we are that we can see what we are.
        Solobill Laville: Yes!
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Funny you should mention that. I was crossing a bridge yesterday and saw the sun setting. I can use words to describe it"but nothing to describe what "it" does for me
        Solobill Laville: RIght!
        Wol Euler: mmhmm
        Solobill Laville: So don't bother...just is, is enough
        Solobill Laville: imho
        Solobill Laville: :)
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: So simple, yet we make it so difficult
        Solobill Laville: That is a big part of it, yes...

    I have to run off to RL...    

        Solobill Laville: BUt I think I will be off - want to watch Kung Fu Panda with the kids before bed...
        Wol Euler: heheheheh
        Wol Euler: a noble and worthy undertaking.
        Solobill Laville: Oh, it is so gooood....
        Wol Euler: 'night solo, take care.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Just being with the kids is wonderful. Enjoy!
        Solobill Laville: Will do
        Fael Illyar: See you later Solo :)
        Susi Alcott: _/!\_
        Solobill Laville: I'm going to grab the chat log, if that's ok...
        Fael Illyar: Sure :)
        Solobill Laville: if there is more can someone send it, or add to the wiki?
        Fael Illyar: didn't you claim it?
        Fael Illyar: you'll get it once it stops (no matter what stops it)
        Solobill Laville: yes...but I don't have it emailed to me, suppose I could...
        Solobill Laville: Oh, will the URL go to my IM or Chat?
        Fael Illyar: it's object IM
        Fael Illyar: so it shows in chat but is offline IM basically
        Solobill Laville: Even if I'm offline?
        Fael Illyar: so you'll get an email if you're offline
        Wol Euler: if you are offline then it will be e-mailed
        Fael Illyar: if you get those that is :)
        Solobill Laville: ok, I'll check that box before I log off...
        Fael Illyar: emails for offline IMs
        Solobill Laville: Thanks!
        Wol Euler: :)
        Solobill Laville: Have a great weekend!!
        Fael Illyar: You too :)
        Wol Euler: and you!

    I left, but the rest of the chat log is of course captured in my absense.

        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Que le pase bien
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Balance
        Fael Illyar: seems I broke it :)
        Susi Alcott: no
        Susi Alcott: you strengthened it :)
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: How can PaB be used in recovering from trauma? I work with people who are often traumatized. Ideas?
        Susi Alcott: many ways PaB can help
        Fael Illyar: just having the pauses might help but ... it's not a magic cure for all.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: sadly thre are no majic cures. Any way I can help is better than not
        Wol Euler nods. Meditation might bring calmness and relief.
        Fael Illyar: There is one person I suggested the idea to but it appears she can't do it without feeling like she'll fail at it so she doesn't want to even start.
        Susi Alcott: many people have also spoken about there difficult matters in life
        Wol Euler: and the space to look into oneself, to consider the cause and effects of the trauma
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: The fear of failure is often so deeply embeded that it's difficult (not impossible) to overcome
        Wol Euler: a friend of mine has been strengthened in dealing with early experiences through meditation here
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: I'll say this the SL serenity of this location is awesome!
        Wol Euler nods. It's paradoxical but "I can't" can be a comfortable place because known and undemanding.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Agreed
        Fael Illyar: Yes, as long as one attaches demands to "I can".
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Neat how you use the word "attaches" that's what they do. In dealing with the demands placed or attached, there is such difficulty in shaking free
        Wol Euler: the problem is not so much "I can" as "oh gods what if I try and fail?"
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: In dealing with these victims, I use my experiences with my daughters. It's okay to fail. Actually it's good!
        Susi Alcott: what possibilities you have to come here with your friend ?
        Wol Euler: oh yes :)
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: When done properly and enough, it's a liberating, learning and successful experience
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: My encounters are often short. I frequently deal with victims of various crimes.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: In advising some of the agencies I work with I try to point to alternatives vs tradition methods.
        Susi Alcott: it can be scarey to try to join to the group unkonw...
        Wol Euler: and the technological hurdle might be high for some people too
        Susi Alcott: but even a drop by could help your friend to see many good things here
        Wol Euler: but the essence of PaB is not in SL :)
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: I would like to set up a SL location where these victims could come in and encounter 'therapists' for a lack of better words.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Too many of the RL issues actually make their way into SL. Having a secured location to
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: retrain in a safe environment may have some merrit.
        Fael Illyar: ... Too many? Are there any that don't?
        Wol Euler: mmhmm, for those who are comfortable in VR and computers this could be a real boon.
        Fael Illyar: but building a location here is similar to building one in RL in a way. Just cheaper and easier to visit.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Good point Fael
        Fael Illyar: assuming familiarity with computers.
        Fael Illyar: I could well imagine it being a bigger hurdle to learn to use SL than whatever the problem is that visiting would be an attempt to solve.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Most the victims have little, if any exposure to computers. Getting them involved with this would liberating in a safe way.
        Wol Euler: maybe, but in contrast to RL they could meet a therapist here without leaving their hpysical home
        Fael Illyar: but, of course, it's very much dependant on the individual.
        Wol Euler: which is what I infer you are aiming at, Miquelito
        Fael Illyar: yes, that does give some added comfort. Just has it depend on a device that, for most people, are rather unreliable things.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Actually, I was thinking along the lines or a directed path. Not so much to roam about, but steered directly to a Zen garden perhaps.
        Wol Euler nods
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: There, the therapist would be waiting, familiar with the individual's case. But, the individual is dealing with VR, and deals with the realitiy of their drama indirectly
        Wol Euler: sounds good to me. The only difficulty I can see would be the computer, for some people. They aren't nearly as ubiquitous as we might imagine :)
        Wol Euler: there are still many people who are afraid of them
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: True. I guess part of the rehabilitation would have to include more than basice computer skills
        Wol Euler: ... which might be a good idea anyway.
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Absolutely.
        Fael Illyar: also worth considering is preparing a single purpose device for running SL for the people. That isn't so easy to break.
        Fael Illyar: (as a normal PC is)
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Excellent idea!
        MiguelitoM4 Quintessa: Sadly I must depart. Thanks for spending your time, thoughts and energy with me. Blessed day/night to all
        Fael Illyar: See you later Miguelito :)
        Wol Euler: thank you, and the same to you too. enjoy the weekend
        Wol Euler: actually, I should go too. Gen gave me a LM to check out, and I still want to be in bed by midnight :)
        Fael Illyar: Allright, see you later Wol :)
        Wol Euler: 'night fael, 'night susi. Take care, be happy.
        Wol Euler: be loved and loving.
        Fael Illyar: You too Wol :)
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