2009.12.02 13:00 - Thinkers, Non-thinkers & Reality check

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Fefonz Quan. The comments are by Fefonz Quan.

    Wol Euler: that seems to hve worked...
    Qt Core: hi all
    Geoff Baily: hi
    Wol Euler: so, now formally: hello geoff, fef, qt, calvino
    Fefonz Quan: hey Qt
    Geoff Baily: hello all
    Wol Euler: hello aubergine
    Aubergine Mint: hi everyone
    Geoff Baily: hi Aubergine
    Qt Core: hi aubergine
    Fefonz Quan: hello aubergine
    Fefonz Quan: sorry to ask, but has anyone here been here before?
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Geoff Baily: yes i have
    Qt Core: yes
    Fefonz Quan: good. me coming not so often lately, so i don't know everyone...
    Aubergine Mint: yes
    Fefonz Quan: yes Qt, i new that :p
    Qt Core: ;)
    Fefonz Quan: knew*
    Fefonz Quan: well, that seems like a 5 min delay
    Wol Euler: how so, fef?
    Calvino Rabeni: Lots of lag or me today
    Fefonz Quan: i just saw no the 'hi aubergine' i wrote 10 min agto
    Fefonz Quan: now*
    Wol Euler: oh wow
    Mickorod Renard: hi
    Wol Euler: hello mick, sophia
    Fefonz Quan: Hey SophShar!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi all, sorry coming in so late
    Fefonz Quan: fds
    Geoff Baily: hi
    Fefonz Quan: hi SophShar
    Qt Core: hi Mick, Sophia
    Aubergine Mint: Hi
    Fefonz Quan: hey MIcko
    Mickorod Renard: howz Fefonz these days?
    Mickorod Renard: I dont see much of you
    Fefonz Quan: great, thanks :) just working a bit too long hours
    Mickorod Renard: yea, I have had to cut back on sl a bit
    Fefonz Quan: it's the new diet ;)
    Fefonz Quan: (and the old lag)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Mickorod Renard: ;)
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Ara
    arabella Ella: Hiya eeryone
    arabella Ella: everyone
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Aubergine Mint: hi arabella
    Geoff Baily: hi arabella
    Qt Core: hi ara
    Mickorod Renard: investigating Being and the other things we tend to discuss here is in some way forming a divide between what I would say the general life of the masses
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
    Wol Euler: what do you mean, Mick?
    Fefonz Quan: the general life of the masses and....
    Fefonz Quan: ?
    Mickorod Renard: well,,,its dificult to say in just a few words
    Wol Euler: use as many as you wish, they're free.
    Mickorod Renard: I may be taken out of context
    Fefonz Quan: (otherwise you divide by zero, and that might have unpleasant results :))
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    arabella Ella: do you mean Mick life in general for most people ... RL of course?
    Mickorod Renard: well,,I do have doubts creeping into my thoughts at times, wondering whether I should take more time just doing normal things instead
    Mickorod Renard: and the subject matter, I find so interesting, yet others that I mix with in rl have their thoughts elsewhere
    Wol Euler: well, yes :) I think most of us would probably say that, Mick. Except those in RL buddhist/meditation groups
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Zen
    Wol Euler: hello zen
    arabella Ella: Hiya Zen!
    Fefonz Quan: even in RL meditation groups, you spent most of the time out of them
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Fefonz Quan: hi Zen
    Geoff Baily: hi Zen
    Fefonz Quan: so for me it feels quite similar
    Aubergine Mint: hi zen
    arabella Ella: yes I agree with Wol altho i would also add some more spiritual communities in RL
    arabella Ella: (not just buddhist / meditation i mean)
    Wol Euler: sure :)
    Mickorod Renard: the question for me I guess, is what is normal thought, and is it correct to be more in line with the masses rather than slightly on the outside
    Aubergine Mint: we are all part of the masses
    Wol Euler: what does "correct" mean in that sentence, Mick?
    Fefonz Quan: yes, massed up and messed up at times
    Zen Arado: better to be yourself
    Zen Arado: or you would be artificially conforming
    Mickorod Renard: well,,if one lives in a community, should one not adhere more closely with a more practical thought pattern rather than looking deeply into spiritual thoughts
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Zen Arado: wonders of we have a choice - we find ourselves driven certain ways
    Wol Euler: I'm tempted to just answer "no" :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: I suppose I am being diplomatic
    Calvino Rabeni: Mick, "normal" is a fiction
    Mickorod Renard: but if I were to divulge my thoughts and perhaps what we do here I would be thought of as mad
    Zen Arado: we are all crazy :)
    Calvino Rabeni: "Average" is an imagnary point no one mathes
    arabella Ella: how 'practical' is what you call a 'normal' way of life?
    Calvino Rabeni: *matces
    Fefonz Quan: yes, the masses infact don't have a uniform 'line'
    Fefonz Quan nods to calvino
    Fefonz Quan: i am not sure Mick, in a way what we do here can reflect as regular behavior in RL, just with different inner view
    Aubergine Mint: so what is it that we do here that would be considered "mad"?
    Wol Euler: hello foxtree
    Foxtree Gorbunov: sorry
    Zen Arado: Hi Foxtree
    Fefonz Quan: hello foxtree
    Wol Euler: ah well, lost another one
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Foxtree
    Zen Arado: we think?
    Geoff Baily: Hi Foxtree
    Wol Euler: perhaps, I sometimes think that thinking is a minority interest
    Mickorod Renard: well, some would say that thinking had little practical use over and above feeding and clothing ourselves
    Zen Arado: think non thinking :)
    Wol Euler: neither does reading books or drinking beer or eating steak instead or raw meat, Mick.
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure you all must know what I am refering to
    Fefonz Quan: In a way what we don't do here can be regarded as 'mad'
    Zen Arado: why do we have to be practical?
    arabella Ella: like watching TV or sleepimg all tjrough a weekend ... now that is mad
    Wol Euler: yeah, realkly
    Mickorod Renard: I find that I am asking myself questions,,like why do so many rl people I know not involve themselves in spiritual dialogue
    Wol Euler: 42.
    arabella Ella: ;0
    Geoff Baily: ;)
    Zen Arado: they haven't got to the stage where they see it as necessary
    Wol Euler: hello zon
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Zon
    Zon Quar: hyea all
    Fefonz Quan: hi Zon.
    Zen Arado: they have to war all the other attractions out first
    Zen Arado: Hi Zon
    Zen Arado: wear
    Foxtree Gorbunov: sorry had to take a cal
    Foxtree Gorbunov: call
    Wol Euler: I appreciate your quandary, Mick, at least I think I do; but I think that you are being overly scrupulous.
    Fefonz Quan: Mick, i meantr that we don't buy into the conventional presumptions about what we are, what is real, and what 'has to be done'
    Geoff Baily: hi Zon
    Wol Euler: wb foxtree
    Foxtree Gorbunov: thanks
    Mickorod Renard: I am not trying to de value what we do here, but clarify in my mind why it seems unusual to most folk
    Wol Euler: I'll give you an introduction in IM so we don't disturb the group.
    Foxtree Gorbunov: Wot
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Have to go, bye all!! waves
    Zen Arado: bye Sophia
    Fefonz Quan: buy sophiasharon
    Geoff Baily: bye
    Mickorod Renard: bye sophia
    Zen Arado: so many adhere to a scientific worldview nowadays
    Mickorod Renard: like for example,,some may say they live their lives in a more rational way
    Wol Euler: hello storm
    Aubergine Mint: is that OK
    Zen Arado: science has become a fundamentalist religion
    Zen Arado: Hi Storm
    Geoff Baily: hi Storm
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Storm
    Mickorod Renard: but to me , not to ask these things, or explore, is irrational
    Aubergine Mint: how so
    Zon Quar: is life rational ?
    Storm Nordwind whispers "Hi everyone"
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i wondered about the 'rationalism' here too
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Storm
    Zon Quar: at least life is bigger than logic
    Fefonz Quan: i think most people aren't driven buy rationality anyway
    Fefonz Quan: by*
    Fefonz Quan: by*
    Zon Quar: if u have a goal u can be rational on how to achieve it
    Zen Arado: I found philosophy disappointing when I thought it could provide all the answers to life
    Mickorod Renard: also I think people are grounded by conceptions they feel are proven
    arabella Ella: how rational is it really to be for example driven totally by what marketing gurus say or by what a consumerist society drives one to do ... i dont see that as rational yet it is what most do
    Calvino Rabeni: Probably a goodthig not tobe rive by ratinalty
    Fefonz Quan: yes, but setting the goal comes from many factors
    Zon Quar: u desire then u rationalise ur desire
    Fefonz Quan nods to Zon
    Zen Arado: science and rationality are useful but don't answer everything in life I think
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Zon Quar: rational is quite boring..what makes us alive is the irrational element we cant concieve
    Storm Nordwind: It is possible to be a successful but completely irrational scientist!
    Mickorod Renard: I wonder how unique we are, exploring these thoughts,,maybe we are just open to ourselves and each other here,,and perhaps the masses also secretly ask these questions
    Calvino Rabeni: agree, zon - desire comes first
    Wol Euler: perhaps our only oddness is that we admit it publicly, mick.
    Foxtree Gorbunov: I like desire
    Zen Arado: agree_ iwasn't connecting the two Storm
    Mickorod Renard: perhaps
    Zon Quar: we r not odd
    Fefonz Quan: well, mick, the masses are mostly religious, in the good old way
    Zon Quar: very ordinary
    Foxtree Gorbunov: yes we are odd
    Foxtree Gorbunov: that want maks us us
    Fefonz Quan: it might point at least to the search for answers
    Zon Quar: its very oridanry to think oneself odd
    Foxtree Gorbunov: I think it is odd to think of yourself as oridanry
    Zon Quar: yes that is ordinary..lol
    Fefonz Quan: then we are even! :)
    Foxtree Gorbunov: as I see it ever want to be part of a group, but stay ture to them self
    Mickorod Renard: thats a nice thought,,,I was worried I was becoming delusionary..he he
    Zen Arado: makes you realize how inadequate these definitions are
    Wol Euler nods to zen
    Calvino Rabeni: Mick, your expressions of doubt are often refreshing
    Fefonz Quan: well, in a way we say that you(we) were always delusionary...
    Zen Arado: we live in a world of dreams and delusions
    Zen Arado: meditation practice helps us wake up
    Foxtree Gorbunov: dreams or dreamers?
    Mickorod Renard: thanks calino
    Mickorod Renard: Calvino
    Zen Arado: doubt is healthy
    Storm Nordwind: A wise person once said: "Doubt is the fire that refines the gold"
    Zen Arado: yes
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Zon Quar: doubt to the end...
    Mickorod Renard: lol,,doubt seems sto create twice as much thought effort
    Zen Arado: not sure about that:)
    Calvino Rabeni: Zon I think knows - people have many perspectives that are determined by culture and personal life stage
    Foxtree Gorbunov: that a good one Calvino
    Fefonz Quan: in a way doubt is in interesting place to be in, leaving space for different options
    arabella Ella: i think the only people who dont have doubts are the 'conditioned zombies' who act like sheep
    Zen Arado: keeps things open
    Zen Arado: beginner's mind
    Zon Quar: trust life but doubt philosophies
    Qt Core: do them have simpler life as in no sweating thinking ?
    Foxtree Gorbunov: ever one worrys
    Wol Euler: sheep worry about wolves.
    Foxtree Gorbunov: finding water
    Zen Arado: only when they see one :)
    Foxtree Gorbunov: food and palce to sleep
    Foxtree Gorbunov: place to sleep
    Zon Quar: well i dont think animals worry
    Geoff Baily: I think one thin that is new and different is that we can all talk here frrely like this
    Calvino Rabeni: Each one worries abut something (if not dead)
    Zon Quar: only man with mind does
    Foxtree Gorbunov: we are animals and we worry
    Zon Quar: animals live in the moment driven by their needs
    Zon Quar: we live in our mind
    Zon Quar: worry bout futuree
    Zon Quar: or regret past
    Zon Quar: animals dont do that
    Foxtree Gorbunov: I has seen cows who have misspalce there calfs. Trust me they worry
    Storm Nordwind is unable to say for sure whether or not animals worry
    Zen Arado: suspect that dogs worry
    Mickorod Renard: but is humanity split into divisions,,those who think,,or at least have a comfort zone to do so,,and those who just feed themselves and go to bed?
    Zen Arado: but have picked it up from humans
    Calvino Rabeni: Some worry about enlightenment. If they have enough of other things to eat :)
    Fefonz Quan: i find the definition between 'thinkers' and non-thinkers a little bothering
    Zen Arado: I think it is a scale Mick
    Zon Quar: nods to zen
    Aubergine Mint: me too Fefonz
    Mickorod Renard: I worry about enlightenment,,I worry i may get it and then be insane
    Calvino Rabeni: Everyone thinks, but few think about thinking.
    Zon Quar: lol Mick
    Storm Nordwind finds people who drive without thinking a little bothering
    Foxtree Gorbunov: Well that is a part of life trying to understand who things fit together
    Fefonz Quan: then you just need to turn off the light again mick :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Don't worry Mik :)
    Zen Arado: if you worry about getting it you won't - so it is said
    Mickorod Renard: I was sort of following on from yesterdays session,,maybe to get enlightenment one has to have a leap of faith
    Fefonz Quan: i must say Mick that i do find myself wondering too about those things, and some reality check from time to time might do good
    Wol Euler: two hundred years ago women who had extramarital affairs were sometimes labelled insane and locked up. It's a pretty big club, Mick.
    Aubergine Mint: how will you know when you get "enlightenment"?
    Calvino Rabeni: "Trust in God, but tie your camel."
    Storm Nordwind: Maybe, Mick, there are people who are enlightened who do not know it, simply because they don't know there is any other way to be?
    Wol Euler: yes
    Zon Quar: are we sane ?
    Foxtree Gorbunov: sane?
    Wol Euler: and yes, and maybe.
    Mickorod Renard: maybe when they drag you away in a ambulance..he he
    Zen Arado: agree Storm
    Fefonz Quan: when you loose the need to look for it Aubergine
    Foxtree Gorbunov: I love that song
    Foxtree Gorbunov: sorry
    Fefonz Quan: l
    Aubergine Mint: :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hey,,Fox
    Fox Monacular: hello everyone, sorry I'm so late:)
    Wol Euler: hello fox
    Foxtree Gorbunov: hi fox?
    Calvino Rabeni: Sane = making a good show of getting along.
    Zen Arado: Hi Fox
    Wol Euler: and goodnight everyone, I have to move on. Take care, be happy, and not too sane.
    Mickorod Renard: bye Wol
    Zen Arado: bye Wol
    Foxtree Gorbunov: good night
    Geoff Baily: Hi Fox
    Zon Quar: environment defines sanity, a normal man in a madhouse is consdiered insane
    Geoff Baily: bye Wol
    Fefonz Quan: night Wol
    Foxtree Gorbunov: bye wol
    Zen Arado: good point Zon
    Storm Nordwind: Perhaps sanity vs. insanity is like good vs. evil, and that it is simply what promotes survival of a group
    Mickorod Renard: I guess if you live in a spiritual environment,,things are diferent
    Foxtree Gorbunov: good day...I got work
    Aubergine Mint: bye all
    Zen Arado: bye Fox
    Foxtree Gorbunov: take care all
    Zen Arado: Bye Aubergine
    Fefonz Quan: by Foxtree
    Geoff Baily: bye Aubergine
    Mickorod Renard: diferent than if u live in a capitalist, consumerist environment
    Fefonz Quan: bye Aburgine
    Mickorod Renard: bye whoever just left
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Zen Arado: a group norm
    Zon Quar: important is not sanity but how u effect ur environment..positively or negatively
    Qt Core: bye all
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Zen Arado: bye QT
    Mickorod Renard: bye qt,,sleep well
    Geoff Baily: bte
    Zen Arado: 'important' is a funny word too :)
    Fefonz Quan: i think 'spirituality' (whatever that means Mick) is tested when you are among other people, that act differnt than you expect them
    Zon Quar: lol
    Zen Arado: all my words are losing their meaning :(
    Fefonz Quan: bye Qt
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Zon Quar: u r almost there zen...lol
    Zen Arado: :)
    Storm Nordwind: All my meanings have long since lost their words!
    Geoff Baily: ;)
    Zon Quar: lol
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Zen Arado: better stop talking while I am still sane :)
    Zon Quar: in what environment
    Zen Arado: maybe wwaking up is realizing the meaninglessness of our vocabulary and concepts
    Zon Quar: thoughts r dreams
    Zen Arado: environment = reality?
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,i had lots of odd dreams lastnight
    Zon Quar: teel me tell me
    Fefonz Quan: and dreams are thoughts :)
    Fefonz Quan: and on this note, i will go to sleep and hope to dream nice dreams :)
    Zon Quar: me too go must
    Zon Quar: namaste all
    Zen Arado: sweet dreams Fefonz
    Mickorod Renard: interestingly..one dream was about not being able to get on a paternosta type lift
    Mickorod Renard: bye Zon
    Fefonz Quan: Good night all, thanks for this fascinating discussion
    Zen Arado: bye Zon
    Geoff Baily: bye Zon
    Fox Monacular: sweet dreams
    Storm Nordwind: That's a good dream Mick, compared to not be able to get out of one!
    Zen Arado: what's that Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: a paternosta ?
    Zen Arado: a lift in a Catholic church ?
    arabella Ella: a lift to heaven ... eternal paradise?
    Mickorod Renard: maybe i used the wrong word,,but some likts are nevr stopping,,and open,,u just walk up and step on
    Zen Arado: oh? never seen one
    Geoff Baily: Yes its a paternoster
    Mickorod Renard: maybe someone else knows a diferent name for one
    arabella Ella: like lifts on building sites perhaps?
    Mickorod Renard: thanks Geoff
    Mickorod Renard: some office blocks have them
    Geoff Baily: Goes over and over
    Mickorod Renard: but I think they are rare
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,thats it Geoff
    Geoff Baily: Exciting going over the top first time!!
    Mickorod Renard: and I had a fear of getting on it,,cos it took me by supprise
    Zen Arado: I used to dream of a lift that took me sideways
    Mickorod Renard: I have never been over the top
    Geoff Baily: Its not really allowed, but its fun
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Mickorod Renard: a sideways lift,,thats an odd one
    Fox Monacular: what do you make of that dream, Mick?
    Zen Arado: was a recurring dream too
    Geoff Baily: ;)
    Mickorod Renard: I thought it may be linked to a couple of things
    Zen Arado: maybe your ego is afraid of groundlessness?
    Mickorod Renard: but in the main about a leap of faith
    Zen Arado: you know the koan about stepping off a 100 ft pole?
    arabella Ella: found some on line info about paternoster lifts there is one in sheffield in arts tower says this about it (quote)
    Zen Arado: is it something like that?
    arabella Ella: The Arts Tower's paternoster lift has 38 carriages which could make it the largest of the few surviving paternosters in the UK, and possibly the largest in the world. A paternoster is a lift made up of a chain of open carriages, each for two people, that move in a loop up and down the building without stopping. The cars travel slowly enough so that passengers can step on or off at any floor they like. Paternoster lift in action The paternoster lift in action When you get to the very top or the very bottom of the building, the cars move horizontally across before continuing vertically upwards or downwards and at this point, everything goes dark while you travel behind the wall (rather than in the open air as happens during the rest of the journey).
    Mickorod Renard: I dont know that one Zen
    Zen Arado: so it goes sideways too :) thanks Arabella
    arabella Ella: yes weird it goes sideways too :)
    Mickorod Renard: see,,the sideways lift must have been a paternosta too
    Geoff Baily: Sideways over the top
    Mickorod Renard: there is something spooky about these paternosta's
    arabella Ella: some go sideways too it seems
    Fox Monacular: trying to picture it...
    Mickorod Renard: we must all look on google later
    arabella Ella: i tried to search for google pictures but none are very clear
    Zen Arado: http://monkeymindonline.blogspot.com...foot-pole.html
    Mickorod Renard: thanks zen
    Geoff Baily: They are supposedto make tall thin buildings more friendly an d connected
    Geoff Baily: Easier than lifts
    Geoff Baily: You cantalk to people as you go pasr their floors
    Geoff Baily: past
    arabella Ella: have you ever used one Geoff?
    arabella Ella: or seen one in RL?
    Mickorod Renard: thats very interesting Zen,,thanks
    Geoff Baily: Yes in Glasgow Uni genetics building
    Zen Arado: thanks for making me look for that koan Mick
    Zen Arado: explanation looks interesting
    arabella Ella: ah ha
    Zen Arado: we are afraid to wake up
    Mickorod Renard: I will save it Zen for later
    Zen Arado: at least our ego is
    Fox Monacular: I'm afraid to wake up for sure
    Zen Arado: is what it means to me
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,and this almost brings me back to where I started tonite
    Mickorod Renard: about what is normal,rational,,and taking leaps in faith
    Geoff Baily: Is it a waking dream or are we dreaming we are awake?
    Zen Arado: looks like we have to throw out the 'normal, rational ' modes :)
    Mickorod Renard: well,,the dream of the paternoster was a sleep dream
    Mickorod Renard: but am sure it has to do with taking an extra step,,in which direction,,thats the question
    arabella Ella: feels good to learn a new meaning to an old word
    Geoff Baily: I don't think it's easy for anyone
    Fox Monacular: do you think the dream had any hints as to the direction?
    Zen Arado: the problem is that we must know the direction
    Zen Arado: instead of taking the leap of faith you described
    Zen Arado: Mick
    Mickorod Renard: I think there was an emphasis on being left behind
    Mickorod Renard: yes Zen?
    Storm Nordwind: Trying to board the paternoster in your dream could indicate you are wanting, but currently unable, to integrate the different parts of yourself.
    Zen Arado: sounds good Storm
    Geoff Baily: ;)
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I think thats some of it Storm,,at least
    Zen Arado: we want to plan and make preconceptions in advance
    Mickorod Renard: I am also a bit of a control freak too
    Zen Arado: just plain fear?
    Storm Nordwind: The fact that the image of a paternoster was used may also indicate that you are concerned that such integrating may leave you with freedom and living in a more mechanised way
    Zen Arado: we all are :)
    Storm Nordwind: *leave you without freedom
    Fox Monacular: or perhaps not just integrate different parts, but also find a stable core for all these parts to be attached to
    Mickorod Renard: its sure a tricky one
    Mickorod Renard: but a reflection on rl I am sure
    Storm Nordwind: It you are a control freak, Mick, it's a perfect metaphor for giving up that control in order to integrate
    Storm Nordwind: *If
    Zen Arado: step off the pole
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I feel that is the issue
    Geoff Baily: Take the risk
    Zen Arado: and myself !
    Storm Nordwind passes Mick an invoice for his standard dream interpretation services
    Zen Arado: instead of going around sideways in lifts !
    arabella Ella: he he
    Mickorod Renard: well,,last night I explained how I would stand on the roof as a child,,daring to find out if I could fly
    Mickorod Renard: I still dont know whether i can fly
    Storm Nordwind: And we are all the richer for your resisting that dare :)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Geoff Baily: ;)
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Mickorod Renard: ok guys n gals,,I have to go home
    Zen Arado: flying is a recurrent dream with me
    Zen Arado: as is driving a car
    Mickorod Renard: nice too
    arabella Ella: i too oftten dream i can fly
    Geoff Baily: me too
    Mickorod Renard: I often ride motorbikes in dreams
    Zen Arado: I had to give up driving 5 years ago though
    arabella Ella: ah
    Geoff Baily: mmm
    Zen Arado: me too and I never did it in RL
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,bye everyone,,thanks for a fun chat
    Zen Arado: bye Mick
    arabella Ella: i think flying is symbolic of a wish for more freedom
    Geoff Baily: bye
    Zen Arado: I better go too
    arabella Ella: bye Mick
    Zen Arado: thanks for discussion - very interesting
    arabella Ella: i must go too nite everyone and thanks!
    Geoff Baily: bye Zen bye arabella
    Storm Nordwind: Are you still in Glasgow Geoff?
    Geoff Baily: No in Frrance now ;)
    Storm Nordwind: /nods
    Geoff Baily: like the sun nd wine!
    Storm Nordwind: Yes, that was a big thing I didn't miss about Glasgow when I left!
    Calvino Rabeni: gtg, friends, talk to you later
    Storm Nordwind: Bye Cal
    Geoff Baily: bye Calvino
    Geoff Baily: wher are you Storm?
    Storm Nordwind: I'm now in the US, in Denver, Colorado
    Storm Nordwind: I lived in Glasgow for 6 years until this August
    Geoff Baily: good?
    Geoff Baily: I left 7 years ago
    Storm Nordwind: Denver is wonderful, yes
    Geoff Baily: You are lucky to be there
    Geoff Baily: Did you like glasgow?
    Storm Nordwind: I am lucky to be newly married to my lovely American wife!
    Storm Nordwind: It took me three years to like Glasgow!
    Geoff Baily: I am newly married to my lovely French wife
    Storm Nordwind: Wonderful. Congrats!
    Geoff Baily: You speak the lingo???? you too!!!!!!
    Storm Nordwind: The best thing about Glasgow is the warmhearted people there
    Geoff Baily: Yesssssssssssss
    Geoff Baily: and the beer??
    Storm Nordwind: The beer... well I liked the Orkney Ales best
    Storm Nordwind: But I brewed it myself too
    Geoff Baily: Heavy, good for you. Much cheaper
    Storm Nordwind: Scottish beer is at least much better than English beer (IMHO)
    Geoff Baily: I liked being able to go out to the hills easily
    Storm Nordwind: I look out from my window here and I can see the front range of the Rockies, climbing to snowy peaks 14000+ feet high
    Geoff Baily: Lucky. You a skiier?
    Storm Nordwind: And the amazing visibility where I can see 55 miles as though it were across the street
    Storm Nordwind: No I do not ski
    Geoff Baily: beautiful !! do you climb?
    Storm Nordwind: I'm getting too old for those kinds of things :)
    Geoff Baily: Me too. Can you see the Rockies now?
    Storm Nordwind: At the moment, in the snow, no!
    Geoff Baily: No I only asked about the skiiing Because my son is a ski instructor at Deer Valley Utah
    Storm Nordwind: I see. Well normally in this picture I can see the whole line of the mountains, but as you can see, not right now (except dimly in the background) http://apcd.state.co.us/live_image/c...jpg?imgmax=800
    Geoff Baily: So its actuaally snowing now there for you?
    Storm Nordwind: See the webcam URL :)
    Storm Nordwind: Just a couple of inches overnight
    Storm Nordwind: More to come
    Storm Nordwind: We had 4 feet of snow a few weeks ago in places
    Geoff Baily: I see buildings
    Geoff Baily: Fantastic but I guess you are used to it!
    Storm Nordwind: The weather is dramatically high contrast here
    Storm Nordwind: 300 sunny days a year
    Storm Nordwind: plus the odd tornado
    Storm Nordwind: and I get sunburn in the winter sun even through window blinds!
    Geoff Baily: ive turned the cam round
    Geoff Baily: love the smell of homegrown tomatoes
    Geoff Baily: Sounds a good lifestyle to me
    Storm Nordwind: You must excuse me now. I must go. See you again :)
    Geoff Baily: Nice to talk bye Storm
    Storm Nordwind waves
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    Originally written on 13:17, 20 Dec 2009
    *Mickorod Renard: I worry about enlightenment,,I worry i may get it and then be insane*
    This was a really interesting thread for me, leaps and fear and groundlessness and such. Love to pick it up again sometime. :)
    Posted 21:25, 9 Apr 2010
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