2010.05.19 19:00 - Who "owns".....

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.


    stevenaia Michinaga: I was hanging from the rafters for a bit, how are you?
    Calvino Rabeni: Your arms look longer than usual
    stevenaia Michinaga: is that a cell phone hanging from your belt?
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm well, I thought I'd drop in for a while
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanls
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
    Calvino Rabeni: It's an AO - I am not quite sure how to conceal it
    stevenaia Michinaga: I got the email about the wiki, sounds like a monumental task to relocate all that information and structure
    Calvino Rabeni: What it does, is create a different "walk" than the default duck walk that all avis know how to do
    stevenaia Michinaga: I can do a duck walk? who would have thought
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, the funny default walk avatars have
    stevenaia Michinaga: didn;t know it had an unflattering name
    Calvino Rabeni: I've heard it called that - well it looks a bit choppy
    Calvino Rabeni: Reminds me of how toddlers walk when first learning
    Calvino Rabeni: But sure, why worry about it, or appearances
    Calvino Rabeni: All Is Vanity
    stevenaia Michinaga: avatar vanity
    stevenaia Michinaga: How much space does our wiki consume on the server?
    Calvino Rabeni: Is it a fair analogy - My Avatar Made Me Do It - versus My Body Made Me Do It
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't know how much space - a small sliver of a disk drive I suppose.
    Calvino Rabeni: The new wiki already exists
    Calvino Rabeni: It's not hard to move the bulk of the data
    Calvino Rabeni: But looking for bad links - haven't done that yet
    Calvino Rabeni: It will be work to troll through it all, manually
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe a script can do that - I believe that is possible, if there turn out to be a lot
    Calvino Rabeni: The new Wiki is at the place it will be later http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
    stevenaia Michinaga: it can look but can it resign the link?
    stevenaia Michinaga: nicer shade of green
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I could make a script for that if there were lots of them to fix
    stevenaia Michinaga: didn;t realize you were a programer type
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, in a previous incarnation :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: comes in handy from time to time
    Calvino Rabeni: It could be a creative outlet,like any language
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you do any SL scripting?
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, I used to do relational database pregramming, I don;t why I was attracted to that, that than it was object oriented and graphical in nature
    stevenaia Michinaga: ie, no structured programming language, just pictorial plug ins to create db programming
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, graphical - you mean, with a tool to diagram the relations, which then get built into the database schema?
    Calvino Rabeni: OK
    stevenaia Michinaga: something like that, as you can imagine what bad typing would do to any programming language, this eliminates any possibility of that
    Calvino Rabeni: The words versus pictures language distinction is puzzling
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.qsatoolworks.com/product/
    Calvino Rabeni: For a while, pictures seemed like the hot new thing
    Calvino Rabeni: but then it turned out, they weren't as expressive as people thought they would be
    Calvino Rabeni: so the words won out
    stevenaia Michinaga: to each ther own
    stevenaia Michinaga: many ways to skin that cat, a very bad metaphor
    Calvino Rabeni: different strokes for different folks
    Calvino Rabeni: always use the right tool for the job
    Calvino Rabeni: if you have a hammer,...
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, interesting was to say the same thing as well
    Calvino Rabeni: In the early days of computer technology, space was limited
    Calvino Rabeni: Now it's treated from a design standpoint as a nearly infinite commodity

    Cal asks a question:

    Calvino Rabeni: Who "owns" the PaB information? A question never formally discussed
    stevenaia Michinaga: it may ahve never been asked
    stevenaia Michinaga: or never needed to be
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Bertram
    Calvino Rabeni: Suppose someone - whether associated with PaB or not - wrote a book and made $10,000,000 using the chat logs
    Bertram Jacobus: hello steven and cal ! :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: 10 millions dollars !? ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Or, suppose I converted to some religion, then decided all my PaB statements were heresy, and wanted them all expunged?
    stevenaia Michinaga: we were discussion the question of who owns what;s on te wiki
    Calvino Rabeni: Or, many quotes were used on some talk show in a derogatory way
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. i see. my idae is sharing ... ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, a more positive scenario then, also ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: there have been discussions about what gets posted and how in the early days, that was left to the guardians
    stevenaia Michinaga: extensive discussions
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
    Calvino Rabeni: Suppose MIT or some think tank, had a way to reformat the chat log, to become part of a big spiritual database along with other sources
    Bertram Jacobus: hy paradise ! :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Would that be acceptable?
    Bertram Jacobus: mrs. neighbour ... :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi, Para :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: isn;t that what google does
    Paradise Tennant: hiya cal .. steve .. bertram :) gtsy everyone :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: with everything?
    Calvino Rabeni: No google indexes, but doesn't digest, reformat into other intellectual products
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders when conversations written can be copywritten
    Calvino Rabeni: I suspect, too late for that
    Calvino Rabeni: And there isn't a formal statment such as - comments are the property of the one who said them, or some such
    stevenaia Michinaga: we each have the ability to modify the wiki, or correct spelling, the edit trail will vanish when the wiki gets moved
    Bertram Jacobus: to me it´s the "one world" thought which comes more and more to reality through such ...
    stevenaia Michinaga: one world in what sence
    Calvino Rabeni: I was trying to go in that direction Bert
    Calvino Rabeni: What ideas have you ?
    Bertram Jacobus: more the aspect of being linked then being devided
    Bertram Jacobus: more share then hold
    stevenaia Michinaga: but back to ownership of the material, there has been discussion of books being written either by individulas or the groups in chapters
    Bertram Jacobus: my impression is, many points like "ownership" especially are changing through the phenomenon whcih is called "the net" - only not understood fully by many yet ... ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: some ahve taken on various finantical responsibilities for the "upkeep" of the group, others may choose to profit from it or its ideas, what of it? each to their own abilities
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. and to me that is a wonderful developement
    Bertram Jacobus: may it change the world - and help the poor and may help the rich
    Calvino Rabeni: google is making ever-more complex ways to commoditize information
    Calvino Rabeni: and to find different ways to make money from it
    Calvino Rabeni: to buy, or to compensate the creators etc.
    Calvino Rabeni: But what I am wondering is, will this create a more rigid capitalist system,
    Calvino Rabeni: or will it be adaptable for the kind of sharing we like to do
    Calvino Rabeni: which is more like a gift economy
    Bertram Jacobus: all directions and developements always are thinkable - in my eyes
    Bertram Jacobus: the good and the bad ones
    Bertram Jacobus: i try to support the good ones ;o)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, thee're thinkable, but the systems that get built, commit us to do thngs in certain wayhs
    Bertram Jacobus: i don´t think so : in the end, it may be a question of personal freedom. the realities of dropping and all that
    Calvino Rabeni: I mean,, technical systems. LIke Google
    Calvino Rabeni: We can make adds
    Calvino Rabeni: And find a big slush pile for free
    Calvino Rabeni: *ads
    Calvino Rabeni: And pay money for products
    stevenaia Michinaga: there have been articles written about the group, I never thought that there may ahve been compensation, as it never seemed to matter
    Bertram Jacobus: i know. but i mean : does the mind create the world or does the world constrains us ? i prefere the first idea ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://journals.tdl.org/jvwr/article/view/288
    Bertram Jacobus: constrain*
    Calvino Rabeni: We trade attention to products, for "free" information we think we want
    Calvino Rabeni: The mind and the world are lovers - long ago they ran madly together into a passionate embrace
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at cal ..very well put !
    Calvino Rabeni: What I am hoping, is, the machinery made by google will also enable people to give of ideas instead of money, as a kind of economy
    Calvino Rabeni: In terms of the news, for isntance, google execs are aware - that it needs to be made more interesting and represent a wider variety of ideas and views
    Calvino Rabeni: But they are not sure how to "monetize" or incentive-ize it
    Bertram Jacobus: i leave again - ty all - 4:55 am here (!) *lol* - was only a short interruption of my sleeping times ... may all beings be happy please ! :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: To make it work
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes PLEas Bert
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Bertram
    Calvino Rabeni: Sleep well
    Bertram Jacobus: ty again ! *wave* ... :-)
    Paradise Tennant: good nite bert :) shlaf gut
    Bertram Jacobus: danke ! :-)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: me too I am going to scoot sorry kind of sleepy :) thank you for the interesting conversation though :)
    Calvino Rabeni: YW Para
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Paradie
    Calvino Rabeni: And I also - have a RL thing to do soon
    Paradise Tennant: sweet dreams all .. namaste :))))
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye Para, Steve, thanks
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps it is a suitable discussion for the sunday morning group, Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes good for that time true
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye, be well
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Lucinda
    stevenaia Michinaga: Bye Lucinda
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