Playing as Devil's Advocate

The following is abridged:

Pema Pera: The most fun would be to come in and strongly argue that PaB does not make any sense at all . . ..
Pema Pera: that would be easy to do, because I've thought a lot about both sides of the argument

Pema Pera: I mean, really, what is that abstract word Being that everybody uses in such a different way?
Pema Pera: doesn't make any sense at all (male OR female :)
Umbriel Levenque: see... you could be good Pema
Pema Pera: honestly, tell me, what is this Being -- a new sect?
Pema Pera: a new system?
Umbriel Levenque: (playing devil's advocate)
Fael Illyar: yes, those too.
Pema Pera: is the devil also Being, for example?
Fael Illyar: along with everything else it seems :P
Pema Pera: and if everything Being, what's the value in calling it that way?
Umbriel Levenque finds all these questioning rather stimulating
Pema Pera: It must just be an empty concept
Pema Pera: no wonder you get bored with it in 9 seconds
Fael Illyar: nonconcept :)
Pema Pera: would take me only 1 second, frankly
Pema Pera: what is a nonconcept?
Fael Illyar never really cared for what the word meant you know ... well, it was fun to imitate others using it.
Pema Pera: ah! So PaB is all about imitating, is that it?
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Pema Pera: or just being cozy together?

Fael Illyar: although might be difficult to get that point home with someone who believes he/she knows all there is to know about him/herself.
Pema Pera: You're right, Fael, when we learn/see something important, there is no longer any point in arguing about whether the ingredients you used made sense individually -- the result is clear

Pema Pera: The next move, if I would go on, would be to try to convince Fael that she has fooled herself, in only *thinking* that she learned something valuable . . . . . (said Pema picking up the challenge again)
Pema Pera is threading dangerous ground perhaps, but enjoys it tremendously!
Fael Illyar ponders 'Did I learn something?'
Umbriel Levenque wants to agree with Pema but fears... somewhat of a possible retaliation after the session
Fael Illyar raises an eyebrow at Umbriel.
Pema Pera: "trial by fire"
Faenik: could be
Umbriel Levenque: Just a harmless discussion this Fael... relax hey
Pema Pera: not altogether harmless perhaps -- interesting question. To test something, to hone or polish, there is a right time; do it too early and you can cause damage . . . .
Pema Pera: do it too late, and you can become selfsatisfied and boring for people around you
Umbriel Levenque: right time... what do you mean Pema?
Pema Pera: shooting down a new idea with a cynical remark is easy -- premature testing/killing the idea
Pema Pera: letting everything just grow as it want without being critical isn't very helpful either
Pema Pera: so there is a balance, like with everything.

Pema Pera: changes are continuous for a while, and then you realize there is nothing that can be changed, and then you see the ongoing changes in a very different light, and then much later once more on a much deeper level you see that REALLY nothing can be changed but in a much more profound way and again you see the ongoing changes in yet again a very very different light, and so on -- a continuity of discontinuities, very paradoxical when put into words, but very natural when experienced

Pema Pera: so because real progress is SO VERY paradoxical, this means that every Devil's advocate is more or less right in any objection!
Pema Pera: And wrong at the same time
Fael Illyar: just looks like a plateau :)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Umbriel Levenque: possibly big changes in one's life help one to move into a deeper level after a period of staying on a plateau
Pema Pera: oh yes, progress is far from linear!

Faenik: could be

http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2008/09/2008.09.29_07%3a00_-_What_is_this_Being%3f