10-12 - Principle and Practice Converge

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    Here is Genesis's summary of the logs 2009.01.10-2009.01.12.


    Solo and Storm definitely are a tough act to follow and unfortunately I just don't have the time to devote to this so instead of writing an essay about the past three days I have put together the parts of the conversations that I most enjoyed with some of my comments on what I thought about them.  Also I for future scribes I think the rule should be if you have the time go all out of course by all means do it, if you don't then don't feel pressured to deliver a masterpiece just do what you can as I did here :)...an important aspect for me is that this remains sustainable. 

    Excerpts from 2009.01.10 7:00 "Mostly I Just Am"
    Susi Alcott: that one can learn what is the issue of the illness/prob
    Susi Alcott: to heal is to grow
    Susi Alcott: to understand more
    I had not made this connection between healing and growing and it was interesting in this session to find out more about Susi, who is healer and how his healing practice related to PaB. More on Susi using Being as a resource in his work below...
    Pema Pera: Being is not personal
    Pema Pera: not even shared
    Susi Alcott: that's it
    Pema Pera: shared would suggest a bridge
    Susi Alcott: so you 'got it' very well
    Pema Pera: it is before even the possibility of a bridge
    Pema Pera: it is there where there is no possibility of separation
    Susi Alcott: yes
    Susi Alcott: yes
    Pema Pera: that is wonderful that you can use that as a practical resource
    Susi Alcott: felt a 'click' in you to happen

     This clarified for me that the "portal" and Being are not the same.  The means and the end are the not part of the same process as I have understood it in the past.  Your journey into Being may be personal but Being itself cannot be personal because it is the thing that is and has been always present before our presence appeared.  Recently in the dialogue between Pema and Stim there has been talk of "Is" as a portal into Being.  So is "Is" personal?

    Fael Illyar: peace is realizing that the chaos around you is not something that can threaten you.
    Susi Alcott: or that you can deal with it
    Will Sveiss: I think you're right fael
    Will Sveiss: that gives you strength to deal with it

    I really enjoyed this short exchange.  Every situation is workable and suffering roots from the inability to adapt, to see that the situation cannot be what you expected/desired it to be.  This for me is to truly go beyond hope and fear. 

    Excerpt from 2009.01.11 7:00 Stress Transference
    Adams Rubble: expectations vs. reality
    stevenaia Michinaga: well their expectatiosn IS their reality, I jsut have to make it mine
    Adams Rubble: I want a palace and here is funding for a shack :)
    Adams Rubble: yes. good point!
    stevenaia Michinaga: no, I can deal with that conflict, that is their stress, my stress is they wnat it NOW
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Adams Rubble knows that one well :)
    Adams Rubble: It takes six months and they want it this afternoon
    stevenaia Michinaga: ofcourse
    Adams Rubble: It is interesting, one easily is able to not take that stress on directly...
    Adams Rubble: but a few of those in succession is what begins to do its work
    Adams Rubble: Maybe I am doing something wrong? I am not meeting needs
    Adams Rubble: there is the stress
    stevenaia Michinaga: always easier to explain to the unrealistic, what the schedule might truely end up looking like earlier on
    Adams Rubble: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: ie, stress transference "Stress Transference"...I love the concept. Like a mirror reflecting back an image
    Adams Rubble: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
    Adams Rubble writes "stress transference" in the things-to-do-book
    Adams Rubble: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: after all, unrealistic schedules places on you is exactly that, they have taken their stress of a task and handed it to you, the moment you accept that.. you inherited their stress
    Adams Rubble: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: jsut don't say "thank you"
    A little later...
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think of the hotheaded contractor screaming and yelling... as if that will make things happen out of fear and stress
    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure that approach works, but it sure is funny to watch
    Adams Rubble: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: it's the kind of funny you would rather watch than be the central character in

    I hear you Stevenaia, how many times have we watched that scene going down in all sorts of stressful situations. This scenario that Stevenaia presents us from his own life working as an architect is a great example of how we could potentially use "stopping" as a resource in daily life.  Stevenaia refers to stress transference as a mirror reflecting back an image, which then reflects on to another mirror and then another mirror, with each mirror slighly changing the original image.  This is perhaps the way that I see "karma" or the chain of cause and effect occuring...so what if we could really just "stop" being mirrors, or reflectors, or rather deflectors of one another's stress, discomfort...it might just take one person to stop for the whole chain to stop. There is a funny notion of stress as a sort of "hot potato" that we must keep passing on so we can prevent ourselves from getting burned...what if we instead put on some oven mits and let the heat of the potato absorb, maybe then unwrap and eat it and let it nourish us.  


    Excerpt from 2009.01.11 13:00 Phenomenology & PaB

    Scathach Rhiadra: I think Pema said something about pheno experiments starting at the other end, looking at phenomema, while PaB starts with Being


    Thanks Scat for repeating this contrast between Phenomenology and PaB. Are phenomena and Being at the opposite ends of the spectrum?  While the sheer appearance of phenomena is bare and skeletal, Being is full and all penetrating?  I have yet to understand the relationship between the two but this gave me a good way to start.


    Excerpt from 2009.01.12 13:00 Turning off the Static

    Stim Morane: Turn it around ... if someone told you that the answer to the 'why' question was such-and-such, how would that help? Would it satisfy you?
    Tarmel Udimo: if I felt it was the 'truth'
    Stim Morane: What would you do with it?
    Tarmel Udimo: be at peace
    Stim Morane: I think learning how to live properly would contribute more to that.
    Stim Morane: What do you think?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes it suffices for a time and then.....
    Pila Mulligan: maybe the question is how do we find a way to be at peace
    Stim Morane: the situation is complicated, because the "real" answer to the question cannot be understood by the ordinary mind. To understand it requires the cultivation that I'm referring to ... so the two approaches converge.
    Tarmel Udimo: okay this makes sense ;-)
    Stim Morane: To explain more: there really isn't a proper answer to your "why" question on the level of action, phenomena, causation etc.
    Stim Morane: So one has to go beyond that. This leads to the cultivation of a higher understanding.

    The quest for the meaning of life ("the truth") as opposed to just learning how to live properly.  The latter seems to be looking at the roots as opposed to "truth" or meaning which is perhaps more of afruit.  I have been exploring this concept of "roots v. fruits," which is a central part of the Kira philosophy and what it could mean not only in general to me personally.  Roots seems to be about the means while fruits a sort of end...so perhaps if we concern ourselves with the means (the practice of living a better life) the end (finding meaning and truth) will naturally follow...whereas grasping at the "truth" and meanwhile being miserable and depressed and generally not present seems to naturally lead to an unsatisfactory situation without clarity.  There is such an interesting connection between desire for truth and earnestly seeking it and the practice of living a truth.  Principle and practice converge as Stim says (or my interpretation anyway of what Stim said), and at some point one realizes that they are pointing to the same thing or in the same direction.

    Laer in that session...

    Solobill Laville: Isn't it amazing, Tarmel is getting ready for the day, Stim is getting ready for lunch, I am going home after work, and Scath is getting ready for bed...
    Solobill Laville: We are living a day at once
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: yes that's what I love about SL except when I have to try and remember the time difference :-)
    Solobill Laville nods
    Solobill Laville: best to just use SL time mostly...
    Tarmel Udimo: its tricky when its 19 hours - I've set up a little chart for myself but i still get confused
    Tarmel Udimo: 19 hours ahead
    Solobill Laville: yes...I am in your past... :)
    Tarmel Udimo: and i am your future ;-)


    The beauty of being part of the PaB community...need I say more?



    Your lazy/oversubscribed but faithful Scribe 






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    Originally written on 16:58, 18 Jan 2009
    I really like this model. Thanks, Gen.
    Posted 18:24, 9 Apr 2010
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