2009.07.21- Dialogue #3

genesis Zhangsun: it is a transitional time
genesis Zhangsun: no thats okay
Pema Pera: yes, big transition time ! ! !
Pema Pera: for all of us, and far more so for you !!!!
genesis Zhangsun: yes
genesis Zhangsun: and all of this meditation is quite disturbing
genesis Zhangsun: :)
genesis Zhangsun: sounds funny
Pema Pera: oh, it makes total sense
genesis Zhangsun: I really am starting to see quite clearly what is "wrong" with me
genesis Zhangsun: in the sort of "relative" sense
Pema Pera: that's the best you can ask from meditation :-)
genesis Zhangsun: yes and it is quite disturbing
genesis Zhangsun: knowing there is really nothing "to do" about it
genesis Zhangsun: forces of nature run their course
Pema Pera: yes, and what makes the difference is the degree of identification between what you feel/sense what "you" is and the various "you" players in this drama
Pema Pera: from body and mind in the ordinary sense to extended awareness all the way to Being
Pema Pera: but I know, it can be rather scary when this process of discovery accelerates . . . .
Pema Pera: I have often told myself in such situations:  I knew, I knew, but wow, now I really have to hold on to my hat !
Pema Pera: shocking to see things actually shaking moving changing dropping -- seeimingly losing everything, any foothold or even toehold . . . .
genesis Zhangsun: I feel more and more distanced from the world
genesis Zhangsun: I don't understand people, I see all of the programs people are running
genesis Zhangsun: and it is hard to see why they keep pushing the on button
genesis Zhangsun: to keep the program running
genesis Zhangsun: people seem so trapped in their skins
genesis Zhangsun: it is painful in a way to watch
Pema Pera: what makes it most painful?
genesis Zhangsun: the lack of connection
Pema Pera: painful for you, for them, for both?
genesis Zhangsun: yeah both really and no one at all, a sense that connection ought to be made, recognition of reality and that seems difficult for most people in life that I come across
genesis Zhangsun: not all but many
genesis Zhangsun: people are not present
genesis Zhangsun: neither am I really
genesis Zhangsun: and that is the difficult part of meditation
genesis Zhangsun: to see how unpresent you are
 genesis Zhangsun: we play so many games
genesis Zhangsun: and believe that those games are important, real
 genesis Zhangsun: it isn't easy to see through your games
genesis Zhangsun: and even the game of seeing through your game is a game
genesis Zhangsun: or can be
Pema Pera: In connection with "[16:12]  genesis Zhangsun: I feel more and more distanced from the world", do you know the French saying "reculer pour mieux sauter"?  To go back a bit in order to jump better.  Meditation is like that . . .  and first you notice the increasing distance, which can be alarming, but that you feel yourself catapulted in much deeper with the jump which is something that "happens" to the you you thought you were, `done' by the you you really are . . . it's such a wild way of life . . .
Pema Pera: *then you feel yourself
genesis Zhangsun: yes[16:42]  genesis Zhangsun: did you listen to the news on the anniversary of the moonwalk yesterday?
Pema Pera: no?
genesis Zhangsun: yes yesterday was the anniversary of man landing on the moon
Pema Pera: I knew it came up, but had forgotten the exact date
Pema Pera: I can still see myself sitting in front of the tv, at my friend's house, age 16 . . . .
genesis Zhangsun: :) what were your thoughts?
Pema Pera: freedom
Pema Pera: freedom from the limitations of living only on the 2D surface of the Earth, and the ability to begin to explore all of 3D space
Pema Pera: and tremendous awe that I was alive at the moment this happened . . . . .
Pema Pera: it was the hippy time: freedom from conventions
Pema Pera: and re: the Moon: freedom from gravity
Pema Pera: hippies: freedom from gravity of society
Pema Pera: moon: freedom from gravity as a physical force
genesis Zhangsun: I listen to BBC radio, and they played clips of people from around the world reacting to the event
genesis Zhangsun: everyone sounded so optimistic
Pema Pera: yes!
genesis Zhangsun: they really saw science and technology as a source of freedom
genesis Zhangsun: as a source of peace
genesis Zhangsun: now people think about science and tech as a source of increased productivity
genesis Zhangsun: efficiency
Pema Pera: yes, and they were right, though that was only one side
Pema Pera: S & T as source of freedom and of slavery, of peace and of war . . .
Pema Pera: it's the mind that steers S & T, the mind is the real source
Pema Pera: and the last few days you have been brave enough to face up to your mind
Pema Pera: that's more brave than flying to the moon and walking there . . . .
genesis Zhangsun: :) kind of you to say
genesis Zhangsun: thanks for the encouragement
Pema Pera: and true!
Pema Pera: just noting a fact :)

genesis Zhangsun: I apologize that we didn't end up talking about Being
genesis Zhangsun: in a direct way
Pema Pera: we did !!!!
Pema Pera: about as direct as they come :)
Pema Pera: words are not very direct
Pema Pera: but experience like yours is
Pema Pera: this is it
genesis Zhangsun: yes and this is why the PaBers all "get" it too
genesis Zhangsun: the very fact that they show up week in and week out
genesis Zhangsun: and share their stories
genesis Zhangsun: themselves
genesis Zhangsun: that is directly Being
genesis Zhangsun: better expressed than any summary
genesis Zhangsun: more authentic
Pema Pera: yes
genesis Zhangsun: being cannot be talked about in a general sense
Pema Pera: thank you for pointing that out
Pema Pera: we have to keep reminding ourselves, day by day . . . .
Pema Pera: keeping the embers glowing . . . .
Pema Pera: continuity

genesis Zhangsun: I think collecting snippets like this- people sharing themselves will touch people
Pema Pera: yes
genesis Zhangsun: they will see themselves
genesis Zhangsun: in the PaBers
genesis Zhangsun: there is nothing more powerful than seeing yourself in someone else