Attending were Eliza, Zen, Tura, Alma, and Riddle.
Eliza Madrigal: Hiya :)
Eliza Madrigal: So dreary here today
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Eliza:)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen (zen.arado): wow some fire !
Eliza Madrigal: Wonderful set on Sunday
Eliza Madrigal: I just grabbed one off of the marketplace ^.^ It should change and be less and less intense as the hour goes on
Zen (zen.arado): thanks
Eliza Madrigal: A moment ago there was dark smoke scorching the sky
Eliza Madrigal: so already it is a little better
Eliza Madrigal: What are you using to post your music now, soundcloud still?
Zen (zen.arado): lots of places but don't bother with Soundcloud much now
Eliza Madrigal: Which is he best/most updated?
Zen (zen.arado): put Zenarado in google
Eliza Madrigal: ok
Zen (zen.arado): I have music on spotify
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I've been thinking about doing a subscription to a music service next year
Zen (zen.arado): you get it free
Eliza Madrigal: I used to be such a music-based person, but am lagging
Eliza Madrigal: with lots of ads though
Eliza Madrigal: I listen to pandora through the TV, but it is so limited
Zen (zen.arado): Spotify suggests music
Eliza Madrigal: decent algorithms?
Zen (zen.arado): Mixcloud had food DJ's
Zen (zen.arado): good
Eliza Madrigal: ?
Eliza Madrigal: oh
Zen (zen.arado): ha ha
Eliza Madrigal: :) thought it was another new thing I hadn't haerd of
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Tura Brezoianu: hi Eliza, Zen
Tura Brezoianu: nice fire
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura :))
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Tura
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, hope it keeps us warm
Zen (zen.arado): one side is nearly done :)
Eliza Madrigal: was thinking that your music fit so well with the art gallery vibe
Zen (zen.arado): I can't play oldies any more
Zen (zen.arado): just got sick of that
Eliza Madrigal is definitely a situational music person (music that one plays in the car, outside at a festival, inside at hall)
Eliza Madrigal: I can understand that Zen
Zen (zen.arado): used to play every week at PP
Eliza Madrigal remembers
Eliza Madrigal: I most enjoy your trancy things
Eliza Madrigal: Tura, you play piano don't you?
Zen (zen.arado): I think some of my earlier stuff was more original
Zen (zen.arado): or weird :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: fine line there
Zen (zen.arado): yep
Tura Brezoianu: only a little, not well enough for anyone else to want to hear :)
Eliza Madrigal: I hunger for both old things that would be new to me, and new things out of my typical comfort zones
Eliza Madrigal: Aw, Tura
Eliza Madrigal: That is probably not true. :)
Zen (zen.arado): I used to play classical guitar
Tura Brezoianu: I'd like to be able to, but I never practice
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, practice discipline
Zen (zen.arado): but my hands got too weak in the end
Eliza Madrigal: I remember your playing spanish guitar for at least one of your sets Zen, not things you'd composed but that you liked
Eliza Madrigal: was really pretty
Zen (zen.arado): it's a lot easier using a digital audio workstation
Zen (zen.arado): I can play a lot of keyboard now
Eliza Madrigal: so many toys now :)
Zen (zen.arado): lots of instruments just using a keyboard controller
Eliza Madrigal: there was a time in my life I'd wake up with little tunes
Zen (zen.arado): lots of house musicians can't play anything, they just paint notes into a piano roll
Eliza Madrigal: but just a blip
Dream Session Begins:
Eliza Madrigal: So.. seems we three are dream session today
Eliza Madrigal: reports?
Zen (zen.arado): I had a long dream last night
Zen (zen.arado): but I was annoyed at how little I could remember
Zen (zen.arado): the first part just disappeared – all the details
Zen (zen.arado): it was something about some guy being very aggressive to me
Eliza Madrigal: that seems to happen often, that long dreams are less remembered, wonder why
Zen (zen.arado): but I was able to beat him not sure if it was physically
Eliza Madrigal: oh
Eliza Madrigal: what else do you remember?
Zen (zen.arado): then one of my careworkers drove me to a house when there was a party on something
Zen (zen.arado): as I was walking in the door a little guy cowered away from me
Zen (zen.arado): as I now had a tough reputation!
Eliza Madrigal: !
Zen (zen.arado): as if
Eliza Madrigal: Those Irish guys...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen (zen.arado): I've never been very aggressive
Zen (zen.arado): though I stand up for myself
Eliza Madrigal: this is after the aggressive situation, or before?
Zen (zen.arado): but it's the feelings I am interested in
Zen (zen.arado): as per the book
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Zen (zen.arado): and I did feel kind of tough :-)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Zen (zen.arado): if you're looking for trouble you come to the right place :-)
Eliza Madrigal takes note!
Eliza Madrigal: Did you see the question, about the timing?
Zen (zen.arado): no?
Eliza Madrigal: did the person cower before you got into the conflict, or after?
Zen (zen.arado): This was just as I was going in the door of another place
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Zen (zen.arado): he got out of my way quickly
Eliza Madrigal: so no connected reason for the reputation then
Zen (zen.arado): no it was as if he had heard about me
Eliza Madrigal: what were your associations?
Zen (zen.arado): ah just remembered –
Eliza Madrigal listens
Zen (zen.arado): I started reading a Jack reacher novel last night
Zen (zen.arado): maybe that has some connection :-)
Eliza Madrigal: that's the way to read! :))
Zen (zen.arado): 6.5 inches and to 250 pounds
Zen (zen.arado): pretty much like Tyson Fury the boxer
Eliza Madrigal: I guess you had a feeling of being taken seriously
Zen (zen.arado): and I think that Lee child intended reacher to have that kind of physique
Zen (zen.arado): just big, not sculpted muscle
Zen (zen.arado): not like Tom Cruise :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: so you were mentally putting yourself in that body
Zen (zen.arado): I wonder what it's like to be big and strong like that
Eliza Madrigal: relating with it maybe
Zen (zen.arado): yes it's a kind of compensation for my own physical weakness I guess
Eliza Madrigal nods, fascinating
Eliza Madrigal: I like dreams for this
Eliza Madrigal: and SL :))
Eliza Madrigal: that was the strongest impression?
Zen (zen.arado): I felt big and strong in the dream
Zen (zen.arado): ah well back to reality
Eliza Madrigal: Well, once you experience that, even in a dream, you can find it in yourself
Zen (zen.arado): being physically disabled can make you stronger mentally
Eliza Madrigal: imaginatively?
Zen (zen.arado): no in reality
Zen (zen.arado): you have to cope with more problems
Zen (zen.arado): just my opinion
Eliza Madrigal: I can think of a lot of stories of writers, where they had times of illness as children, or even as adults, which pushed them to think differently
Zen (zen.arado): did you ever watch the Breaking Bad series?
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) My son loves that
Tura Brezoianu: "what does not kill me..."
Zen (zen.arado): Well I like the older guy called Mike in that
Tura Brezoianu: I've seen trailers and a few clips
Eliza Madrigal nods Tura
Zen (zen.arado): whatever happens he just gets on with it
Zen (zen.arado): he is in "better call Saul" as well
Eliza Madrigal: Lots about the show is really profound... was really surprised.
Zen (zen.arado): yes I just finished watching series four
Zen (zen.arado): great the way they develop the characterisations
Eliza Madrigal: Mike is a tough guy for sure, but also has a kind of distance
Eliza Madrigal: not quite equanimity
Zen (zen.arado): yes very taciturn
Eliza Madrigal: that's interesting that you relate to him
Zen (zen.arado): nothing seems to faze him
Zen (zen.arado): he's a bit crooked though :-)
Zen (zen.arado): crooked cop
Eliza Madrigal: he strikes the bargain of thinking he is doing well by his own family
Zen (zen.arado): yes exactly, his daughter and granddaughter
Eliza Madrigal: the character studies are interesting. Dreams can do that as well... let us try other mentalities on
Eliza Madrigal: I want to ask what characters we all relate to, but then it seems SO personal to do so, weirdly
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen (zen.arado): it's interesting to compare a dream personality with our real one
Zen (zen.arado): hi Riddle
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :))
Eliza Madrigal: Would you like a note?
Riddle Sideways: yes, please
Eliza Madrigal: sure, one moment
Riddle Sideways: sorry, lost track of time
Zen (zen.arado): I can look back and see a dream characterisation of myself emerging I think
Eliza Madrigal: with continuity?
Zen (zen.arado): I'll have to examine more closely
Zen (zen.arado): just a thought
Eliza Madrigal: great idea
Eliza Madrigal: How is dreaming for you this week, Tura?
Zen (zen.arado): when you have so many dreams logged you can start to see a pattern I hope
Zen (zen.arado): logged
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Tura Brezoianu: I haven't remembered any.
Eliza Madrigal: or dream feelings?
Tura Brezoianu: I've been trying some of the ways of working with dreams in the book.
Eliza Madrigal listens
Tura Brezoianu: Animating a dream image, "contacting the archetypal ego", "asking the core questions", and so on.
Tura Brezoianu: But I don't have the sort of spontaneous experiences that the book describes, of the dream figures speaking or doing things on their own initiative.
Tura Brezoianu: I can make up stuff about them, but it's not like I'm discovering things.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Alma :)
Zen (zen.arado): Hi Alma :)
Riddle Sideways: hey Alma
Tura Brezoianu: hi Alma
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): hi Eliza, Riddle, Tura, Zen
Eliza Madrigal: It may be a value to do so though, Tura?
Zen (zen.arado): but I think I am noticing characters in my dreams more
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps it will make room for possiblities
Tura Brezoianu: Maybe
Zen (zen.arado): I think it develops
Zen (zen.arado): my biggest hurdle is still recall
Eliza Madrigal: I have a hard time staying with visualization, but I know it can be rich ground
Riddle Sideways: Tura, what do the dream figures do then?
Riddle Sideways: if not on their own initiative
Tura Brezoianu: Well, nothing really. I can imagine someone there in the room, but that's all.
Eliza Madrigal: you are more aware of surroundings?
Tura Brezoianu: dream surroundings, or RL?
Eliza Madrigal: dreams...maybe RL too?
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I was always aware of the other characters in dreams talking to me... at some point I think I was always puzzling things
Tura Brezoianu: In the lucid dream I described a week or two ago, when I was running on a cobbled street, the only people in the dream were just "atmosphere", as the film industry calls them.
Tura Brezoianu: Extras.
Eliza Madrigal: the street was more vivid than they were?
Riddle Sideways: interesting
Tura Brezoianu: Yes, they were just part of the scenery
Eliza Madrigal: interesting to note, yes
Eliza Madrigal: and what about your awareness of yourself, comparatively?
Riddle Sideways: Those authors of books say the dreams are such and such and each of us is a bit different
Tura Brezoianu: I'm just me in my dreams, my own presence. I think that dream was in mouselook mode.
Riddle Sideways: ㋡
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen (zen.arado): :-)
Eliza Madrigal: pattern emerges
Zen (zen.arado): maybe we shouldn't look for patterns
Zen (zen.arado): every dream is a new happening
Zen (zen.arado): the rational brain starting to categorise
Eliza Madrigal: I like that too
Eliza Madrigal: but room for lots of approaches?
Zen (zen.arado): sometimes I am on my own dreams and sometimes with people
Zen (zen.arado): yes sure
Eliza Madrigal: I dreamed last week, not this one, that I was in the body of a person out of place with their own gender, and I was, just like one would with an avatar, sort of distantly measuring what others were thinking
Zen (zen.arado): so long as we don't rationalise the meaning away according to the guy in the book
Zen (zen.arado): that's interesting Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: I woke feeling uncomfortable, because I knew that I wasn't quite 'there' with my empathy, or understanding...
Eliza Madrigal: but was happy that having the dream told me I was working on it
Riddle Sideways: good
Zen (zen.arado): dream empathy
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I'm not as quick to adapt as I want to be, and admitting that isn't easy
Tura Brezoianu:Other people's schemas can be useful as tools for exploring, but I think what you find will in the end be independent of the tools.
Riddle Sideways: yes
Zen (zen.arado): yes Tura
Eliza Madrigal: indeed, very nice way of saying that
Zen (zen.arado): just a way of digging into our dreams
Zen (zen.arado): digging for gold
Tura Brezoianu: Someone said it like this: "If you get it, it will be in spite of any method. You must have a method."
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen (zen.arado): we need the props at the start?
Eliza Madrigal: there are lots of different kinds of books to read
Eliza Madrigal: 'ways of being'
Zen (zen.arado): Yes, this present book is just suggestions to try to me
Riddle Sideways: ;)
Eliza Madrigal: I like these, just finding the discipline illusive!
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): you need to have rules to learn how to do things. once you know how to do it by the rules, then you can break them
Zen (zen.arado): can I post the next bit? It will be good to cover the four points of this section
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, please do
Zen (zen.arado): 2. Open Body Awareness
There is a line from Mary Oliver’s poem “Wild Geese” that informs all my dreamwork: “You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.” When I work from my “animal body,” greeting dream images in an embodied way, they in turn respond to me in the same way. It’s as if a dream image is actually a kind of person or animal with a body of its own, albeit imaginal. Images have life force and walk about on legs of their own. Even the non-creature dream entities, like clouds or airplanes or houses, are living, personified presences of the dreamtime. They too have a vitality that blossoms into visibility when met body-to-body.
Zen (zen.arado): To meet images in an embodied way, I pay particular attention to the feelings running through me as I encounter an image. I take the time to listen to what is happening in my corporeal experience. It pays to be patient, because often when I try to tune into my body and feelings, the “knower” is the first on the scene. He scrambles to figure things out, take control, offer an opinion. When he shows up, I instantly lose the immediacy of contact with my body.
Zen (zen.arado): So over the years, I have learned to simply say hello to the “knower” and let him pass by. Then after quieting down, I bring awareness back to the immediacy of my animal body. Connected to my instinctual sensitivities, I am now ready to make body-to-body contact with the living embodied images of the dreamtime.
Aizenstat, Stephen. Dream Tending: Awakening to the Healing Power of Dreams (p. 26). Spring Journal, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
Zen (zen.arado): done
Eliza Madrigal: whoa, excellent
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): this sounds much like Eugene Gendlin's approach in his book "Let your body interpret your dreams"
Eliza Madrigal: Gendlin, from the focusing technique?
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): yes
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): he applies focusing to working with dreams
Eliza Madrigal: that's wonderful
Eliza Madrigal: this sounds like developing a tolerance for active unknowing
Eliza Madrigal: really like that description of what happens when "the knower" shows up
Zen (zen.arado): a lot of this is applicable to real life as well
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen (zen.arado): isn't it?
Eliza Madrigal: definitely
Eliza Madrigal: but it is so different to learn as general idea vs. actively practicing in specific moments
Eliza Madrigal: applying
Eliza Madrigal: Mary Oliver's poem, applied that way, feels shamanic too
Eliza Madrigal: "let the soft (dream) animal of your body..."
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen (zen.arado): I wonder if you can respond in this way if the dream is an old one?
Zen (zen.arado): Or does this have to be an immediate response?
Eliza Madrigal: go back in?
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): might be worth trying and seeing what happens
Eliza Madrigal: no real limits
Zen (zen.arado): Bodily response just seems immediate to me
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is prep work, using everything as material, So, you can 'flesh out' a situation and try different more open responses.... in preparation for the next time
Eliza Madrigal: then the 'spontaneous' moment arises and you remember
Eliza Madrigal: "Ah, relax and see"
Eliza Madrigal: like getting over shyness?
Zen (zen.arado): that's my logical mind trying to figure it out :-)
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: I wish I could practice public speaking in dreams. I'm sure it would help :)
Eliza Madrigal: Are there any other comments, before the end of session?
Zen (zen.arado): would help lose the fear of it
Zen (zen.arado): I don't think you're alone in that
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Zen (zen.arado): the fire is going out, shivers
Eliza Madrigal: I don't feel afraid of public speaking until I'm there trying to do it
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: the fire kept to its promised timing
Zen (zen.arado): I would be the other way around
Eliza Madrigal: very dreary here...feel we should meet somewhere new next week
Zen (zen.arado): yes I don't like snow
Riddle Sideways: wear a warm ugly sweater
Eliza Madrigal: I like it when it is bright and ice skatable :)
Wim Hof
Zen (zen.arado): who would Sit out in the snow?
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): it's cold and snowy enough in RL
Zen (zen.arado): Yep
Tura Brezoianu: Wim Hof :)
Zen (zen.arado): who is he?
Tura Brezoianu: Known as "The Iceman", practicesand teaches extreme cold endurance.
Zen (zen.arado): Interesting
Eliza Madrigal: haha, funny that you had that reference so near to hand
Tura Brezoianu: I've been doing some of his exercises lately
Eliza Madrigal: do they work?
Tura Brezoianu: Not really sure yet.
Zen (zen.arado): I read somewhere that our ancient ancestors could withstand severe cold
Riddle Sideways: life is short, why be cold
Tura Brezoianu: But I can do 2 minutes in an 8°C shower.
Eliza Madrigal: @@
Zen (zen.arado): we spoiled it by wearing clothes because that interferes with natural thermostat
Eliza Madrigal: If you want to go on an adventure, camping or climbing or some such
Eliza Madrigal: makes sense to me... sadly I never have to use such techniques... hot and humid even today >wah<
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): my hands get very cold in the winter
Eliza Madrigal: are the techniques visualizations... like imagining hot hands?
Tura Brezoianu: More practical things: breathing exercises, cold showers, ice baths....
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): wrapping them around a mug of hot chocolate is my favorite technique
Zen (zen.arado): :-)
Eliza Madrigal: interesting, wonder how many of the tibetan techniques arose as a result of mitigating such conditions
Eliza Madrigal: hah, sounds yummy
Eliza Madrigal: Want to tp us to your spot next week Alma? Save us from soggy/dreary? :)
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): yes, we can meet on my land if you like
Eliza Madrigal: thank you!
Eliza Madrigal: so we can just IM you when signing on if that's okay
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): ok, or I can give you a LM to put in the announcement
Eliza Madrigal: Ok, if you feel okay with that
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): I'll have to pick a spot and put out some cushions
Eliza Madrigal: great
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): my land is open to the public, so I don't mind giving out LMs
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Also, I can't be here Christmas day, and possibly the week before, but don't want to cancel if others can make it
Eliza Madrigal: the week before is 50/50
Zen (zen.arado): may be you should just cancel them
Eliza Madrigal: up to you guys, sometimes it is nice to come into SL for holidays :)
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): it's a busy time.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: ok
Eliza Madrigal: the week after that is Jan 1, but I'm not planning any wild partying so should be okay - but again, up to others :))
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): we can have wild dreams ;)
Zen (zen.arado): I won't be partying either
Riddle Sideways: Parties are later here
Eliza Madrigal: OK ^.^ So we'll meet next week for sure, and then again on Jan 1
Zen (zen.arado): okay
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): sounds good
Eliza Madrigal: I feel soggy, hah
Eliza Madrigal: whoosh
Riddle Sideways: whoops
Riddle Sideways: started a fire
Zen (zen.arado): bye everybody
Riddle Sideways: by
Riddle Sideways: All
Tura Brezoianu: goodnight all
Eliza Madrigal: bye Zen, bye everybody <3
Eliza Madrigal: have a good week
Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): bye!
Eliza Madrigal: yikes
Tura Brezoianu: hm