2018.12.04 11:30 - Dream Session: Embodiment

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    Attending were Eliza, Zen, Tura, Alma, and Riddle.
     
    Keeping Warm_003.jpg
     
    Eliza Madrigal: Hiya :)
    Eliza Madrigal: So dreary here today
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Eliza:)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): wow some fire !
    Eliza Madrigal: Wonderful set on Sunday
    Eliza Madrigal: I just grabbed one off of the marketplace ^.^ It should change and be less and less intense as the hour goes on
    Zen (zen.arado): thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: A moment ago there was dark smoke scorching the sky
    Eliza Madrigal: so already it is a little better
     
    Eliza Madrigal: What are you using to post your music now, soundcloud still?
    Zen (zen.arado): lots of places but don't bother with Soundcloud much now
    Eliza Madrigal: Which is he best/most updated?
    Zen (zen.arado): put Zenarado in google
    Eliza Madrigal: ok
    Zen (zen.arado): I have music on spotify
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, I've been thinking about doing a subscription to a music service next year
    Zen (zen.arado): you get it free
    Eliza Madrigal: I used to be such a music-based person, but am lagging
    Eliza Madrigal: with lots of ads though
    Eliza Madrigal: I listen to pandora through the TV, but it is so limited
    Zen (zen.arado): Spotify suggests music
    Eliza Madrigal: decent algorithms?
     
    Zen (zen.arado): Mixcloud had food DJ's
    Zen (zen.arado): good
    Eliza Madrigal: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: oh
    Zen (zen.arado): ha ha
    Eliza Madrigal: :) thought it was another new thing I hadn't haerd of
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
     
    Tura Brezoianu: hi Eliza, Zen
    Tura Brezoianu: nice fire
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura :))
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Tura
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, hope it keeps us warm
    Zen (zen.arado): one side is nearly done :)
    Eliza Madrigal: was thinking that your music fit so well with the art gallery vibe
    Zen (zen.arado): I can't play oldies any more
    Zen (zen.arado): just got sick of that
    Eliza Madrigal is definitely a situational music person (music that one plays in the car, outside at a festival, inside at hall)
    Eliza Madrigal: I can understand that Zen
    Zen (zen.arado): used to play every week at PP
    Eliza Madrigal remembers
    Eliza Madrigal: I most enjoy your trancy things
    Eliza Madrigal: Tura, you play piano don't you?
    Zen (zen.arado): I think some of my earlier stuff was more original
    Zen (zen.arado): or weird :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: fine line there
    Zen (zen.arado): yep
    Tura Brezoianu: only a little, not well enough for anyone else to want to hear :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I hunger for both old things that would be new to me, and new things out of my typical comfort zones
    Eliza Madrigal: Aw, Tura
    Eliza Madrigal: That is probably not true. :)
    Zen (zen.arado): I used to play classical guitar
    Tura Brezoianu: I'd like to be able to, but I never practice
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, practice discipline
    Zen (zen.arado): but my hands got too weak in the end
    Eliza Madrigal: I remember your playing spanish guitar for at least one of your sets Zen, not things you'd composed but that you liked
    Eliza Madrigal: was really pretty
     
    Zen (zen.arado): it's a lot easier using a digital audio workstation
    Zen (zen.arado): I can play a lot of keyboard now
    Eliza Madrigal: so many toys now :)
    Zen (zen.arado): lots of instruments just using a  keyboard controller
    Eliza Madrigal: there was a time in my life I'd wake up with little tunes
    Zen (zen.arado): lots of house musicians can't play anything, they just paint notes into a piano roll
    Eliza Madrigal: but just a blip
     
    Dream Session Begins:
     
    Eliza Madrigal: So.. seems we three are dream session today
    Eliza Madrigal: reports?
    Zen (zen.arado): I had a long dream last night
    Zen (zen.arado): but I was annoyed at how little I could remember
    Zen (zen.arado): the first part just disappeared – all the details
    Zen (zen.arado): it was something about some guy being very aggressive to me
    Eliza Madrigal: that seems to happen often, that long dreams are less remembered, wonder why
    Zen (zen.arado): but I was able to beat him not sure if it was physically
    Eliza Madrigal: oh
    Eliza Madrigal: what else do you remember?
    Zen (zen.arado): then one of my careworkers  drove me to a house when there was a party on something
    Zen (zen.arado): as I was walking in the door a little guy cowered away from me
    Zen (zen.arado): as I now had a tough reputation!
    Eliza Madrigal: !
    Zen (zen.arado): as if
    Eliza Madrigal: Those Irish guys...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): I've never been very aggressive
    Zen (zen.arado): though I stand up for myself
    Eliza Madrigal: this is after the aggressive situation, or before?
    Zen (zen.arado): but it's the feelings I am interested in
    Zen (zen.arado): as per the book
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Zen (zen.arado): and I did feel kind of tough :-)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Zen (zen.arado): if you're looking for trouble you come to the right place :-)
    Eliza Madrigal takes note!
    Eliza Madrigal: Did you see the question, about the timing?
    Zen (zen.arado): no?
    Eliza Madrigal: did the person cower before you got into the conflict, or after?
    Zen (zen.arado): This was just as I was going in the door of another place
    Eliza Madrigal: ah
    Zen (zen.arado): he got out of my way quickly
    Eliza Madrigal: so no connected reason for the reputation then
    Zen (zen.arado): no it was as if he had heard about me
     
    Keeping Warm_005.jpg
     
    Eliza Madrigal: what were your associations?
    Zen (zen.arado): ah just remembered –
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Zen (zen.arado): I started reading a Jack reacher novel last night
    Zen (zen.arado): maybe that has some connection :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: that's the way to read! :))
    Zen (zen.arado): 6.5 inches and to  250 pounds
    Zen (zen.arado): pretty much like Tyson Fury the boxer
    Eliza Madrigal: I guess you had a feeling of being taken seriously
    Zen (zen.arado): and I think that Lee child intended  reacher to have that kind of physique
    Zen (zen.arado): just  big, not sculpted muscle
    Zen (zen.arado): not like Tom Cruise :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
     
    Eliza Madrigal: so you were mentally putting yourself in that body
    Zen (zen.arado): I wonder what it's like to be big and strong like that
    Eliza Madrigal: relating with it maybe
    Zen (zen.arado): yes it's a kind of compensation for my own physical weakness I guess
    Eliza Madrigal nods, fascinating
    Eliza Madrigal: I like dreams for this
    Eliza Madrigal: and SL :))
    Eliza Madrigal: that was the strongest impression?
    Zen (zen.arado): I felt big and strong in the dream
    Zen (zen.arado): ah well back to reality
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, once you experience that, even in a dream, you can find it in yourself
     
    Zen (zen.arado): being physically disabled can make you stronger mentally
    Eliza Madrigal: imaginatively?
    Zen (zen.arado): no in reality
    Zen (zen.arado): you have to cope with more problems
    Zen (zen.arado): just my opinion
    Eliza Madrigal: I can think of a lot of stories of writers, where they had times of illness as children, or even as adults, which pushed them to think differently
     
    Zen (zen.arado): did you ever watch the Breaking Bad series?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :) My son loves that
    Tura Brezoianu: "what does not kill me..."
    Zen (zen.arado): Well I like the older guy called Mike in that
    Tura Brezoianu: I've seen trailers and a few clips
    Eliza Madrigal nods Tura
    Zen (zen.arado): whatever happens he just gets on with it
    Zen (zen.arado): he  is in "better call Saul" as well
    Eliza Madrigal: Lots about the show is really profound... was really surprised.
    Zen (zen.arado): yes I just finished watching series four
    Zen (zen.arado): great the way they develop the characterisations
    Eliza Madrigal: Mike is a tough guy for sure, but also has a kind of distance
    Eliza Madrigal: not quite equanimity
    Zen (zen.arado): yes very taciturn
    Eliza Madrigal: that's interesting that you relate to him
    Zen (zen.arado): nothing seems to faze him
    Zen (zen.arado): he's a bit crooked though :-)
    Zen (zen.arado): crooked cop
    Eliza Madrigal: he strikes the bargain of thinking he is doing well by his own family
    Zen (zen.arado): yes exactly, his daughter and granddaughter
     
    Eliza Madrigal: the character studies are interesting. Dreams can do that as well... let us try other mentalities on
    Eliza Madrigal: I want to ask what characters we all relate to, but then it seems SO personal to do so, weirdly
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): it's interesting to compare a dream personality with our real one
    Zen (zen.arado): hi Riddle
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Would you like a note?
    Riddle Sideways: yes, please
    Eliza Madrigal: sure, one moment
    Riddle Sideways: sorry, lost track of time
     
    Zen (zen.arado): I can look back and see a dream characterisation of myself emerging I think
    Eliza Madrigal: with continuity?
    Zen (zen.arado): I'll  have to examine more closely
    Zen (zen.arado): just a thought
    Eliza Madrigal: great idea
    Eliza Madrigal: How is dreaming for you this week, Tura?
    Zen (zen.arado): when you have so many dreams  logged you can start to see a pattern I hope
    Zen (zen.arado): logged
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Tura Brezoianu: I haven't remembered any.
    Eliza Madrigal: or dream feelings?
     
    Tura Brezoianu: I've been trying some of the ways of working with dreams in the book.
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Tura Brezoianu: Animating a dream image, "contacting the archetypal ego", "asking the core questions", and so on.
    Tura Brezoianu: But I don't have the sort of spontaneous experiences that the book describes, of the dream figures speaking or doing things on their own initiative.
    Tura Brezoianu: I can make up stuff about them, but it's not like I'm discovering things.
     
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Alma :)
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Alma :)
    Riddle Sideways: hey Alma
    Tura Brezoianu: hi Alma
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): hi Eliza, Riddle, Tura, Zen
    Eliza Madrigal: It may be a value to do so though, Tura?
    Zen (zen.arado): but I think I am noticing characters in my dreams more
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps it will make room for possiblities
    Tura Brezoianu: Maybe
    Zen (zen.arado): I think it develops
    Zen (zen.arado): my biggest hurdle is still recall
    Eliza Madrigal: I have a hard time staying with visualization, but I know it can be rich ground
    Riddle Sideways: Tura, what do the dream figures do then?
    Riddle Sideways: if not on their own initiative
    Tura Brezoianu: Well, nothing really. I can imagine someone there in the room, but that's all.
     
    Eliza Madrigal: you are more aware of surroundings?
    Tura Brezoianu: dream surroundings, or RL?
    Eliza Madrigal: dreams...maybe RL too?
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I was always aware of the other characters in dreams talking to me... at some point I think I was always puzzling things
    Tura Brezoianu: In the lucid dream I described a week or two ago, when I was running on a cobbled street, the only people in the dream were just "atmosphere", as the film industry calls them.
    Tura Brezoianu: Extras.
    Eliza Madrigal: the street was more vivid than they were?
    Riddle Sideways: interesting
    Tura Brezoianu: Yes, they were just part of the scenery
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting to note, yes
    Eliza Madrigal: and what about your awareness of yourself, comparatively?
    Riddle Sideways: Those authors of books say the dreams are such and such and each of us is a bit different
     
    Tura Brezoianu: I'm just me in my dreams, my own presence. I think that dream was in mouselook mode.
    Riddle Sideways: ㋡
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): :-)
     
    Eliza Madrigal: pattern emerges
    Zen (zen.arado): maybe we  shouldn't look for patterns
    Zen (zen.arado): every dream is a new happening
    Zen (zen.arado): the rational brain starting to categorise
    Eliza Madrigal: I like that too
    Eliza Madrigal: but room for lots of approaches?
    Zen (zen.arado): sometimes I am on my own dreams and sometimes with people
    Zen (zen.arado): yes sure
     
    Eliza Madrigal: I dreamed last week, not this one, that I was in the body of a person out of place with their own gender, and I was, just like one would with an avatar, sort of distantly measuring what others were thinking
    Zen (zen.arado): so long as we don't rationalise the meaning away according to the guy in the book
    Zen (zen.arado): that's interesting  Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: I woke feeling uncomfortable, because I knew that I wasn't quite 'there' with my empathy, or understanding...
    Eliza Madrigal: but was happy that having the dream told me I was working on it
    Riddle Sideways: good
    Zen (zen.arado): dream empathy
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I'm not as quick to adapt as I want to be, and admitting that isn't easy
     
    Tura Brezoianu:Other people's schemas can be useful as tools for exploring, but I think what you find will in the end be independent of the tools.
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Zen (zen.arado): yes Tura
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed, very nice way of saying that
    Zen (zen.arado): just a way of digging into our dreams
    Zen (zen.arado): digging for gold
    Tura Brezoianu: Someone said it like this: "If you get it, it will be in spite of any method. You must have a method."
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): we need the props at the start?
    Eliza Madrigal: there are lots of different kinds of books to read
    Eliza Madrigal: 'ways of being'
    Zen (zen.arado): Yes, this present book is just suggestions to try to  me
    Riddle Sideways: ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: I like these, just finding the discipline illusive!
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): you need to have rules to learn how to do things. once you know how to do it by the rules, then you can break them
     
    Zen (zen.arado): can I post the next bit? It will be good to cover the four points of this section
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, please do
     
    Zen (zen.arado): 2. Open Body Awareness 
     
    There is a line from Mary Oliver’s poem “Wild Geese” that informs all my dreamwork: “You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.” When I work from my “animal body,” greeting dream images in an embodied way, they in turn respond to me in the same way. It’s as if a dream image is actually a kind of person or animal with a body of its own, albeit imaginal. Images have life force and walk about on legs of their own. Even the non-creature dream entities, like clouds or airplanes or houses, are living, personified presences of the dreamtime. They too have a vitality that blossoms into visibility when met body-to-body.
     
    Zen (zen.arado): To meet images in an embodied way, I pay particular attention to the feelings running through me as I encounter an image. I take the time to listen to what is happening in my corporeal experience. It pays to be patient, because often when I try to tune into my body and feelings, the “knower” is the first on the scene. He scrambles to figure things out, take control, offer an opinion. When he shows up, I instantly lose the immediacy of contact with my body.
    Zen (zen.arado): So over the years, I have learned to simply say hello to the “knower” and let him pass by. Then after quieting down, I bring awareness back to the immediacy of my animal body. Connected to my instinctual sensitivities, I am now ready to make body-to-body contact with the living embodied images of the dreamtime.
     
    Aizenstat, Stephen. Dream Tending: Awakening to the Healing Power of Dreams (p. 26). Spring Journal, Inc.. Kindle Edition.
    Zen (zen.arado): done
     
    Eliza Madrigal: whoa, excellent
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): this sounds much like Eugene Gendlin's approach in his book "Let your body interpret your dreams"
    Eliza Madrigal: Gendlin, from the focusing technique?
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): yes
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): he applies focusing to working with dreams
    Eliza Madrigal: that's wonderful
    Eliza Madrigal: this sounds like developing a tolerance for active unknowing
    Eliza Madrigal: really like that description of what happens when "the knower" shows up
     
    Zen (zen.arado): a lot of this is applicable to real life as well
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen (zen.arado): isn't it?
    Eliza Madrigal: definitely
    Eliza Madrigal: but it is so different to learn as general idea vs. actively practicing in specific moments
    Eliza Madrigal: applying
    Eliza Madrigal: Mary Oliver's poem, applied that way, feels shamanic too
    Eliza Madrigal: "let the soft (dream) animal of your body..."
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
     
    Zen (zen.arado): I wonder if you can respond in this way if the dream is an old one?
    Zen (zen.arado): Or does this have to be an immediate response?
    Eliza Madrigal: go back in?
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): might be worth trying and seeing what happens
    Eliza Madrigal: no real limits
    Zen (zen.arado): Bodily response just seems immediate to me
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is prep work, using everything as material, So, you can 'flesh out' a situation and try different more open responses.... in preparation for the next time
    Eliza Madrigal: then the 'spontaneous' moment arises and you remember
    Eliza Madrigal: "Ah, relax and see"
    Eliza Madrigal: like getting over shyness?
    Zen (zen.arado): that's my logical mind trying to figure it out :-)
    Eliza Madrigal laughs
     
    Eliza Madrigal: I wish I could practice public speaking in dreams. I'm sure it would help :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Are there any other comments, before the end of session?
    Zen (zen.arado): would help lose the fear of it
    Zen (zen.arado): I don't think you're alone in that
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Zen (zen.arado): the fire is going out,  shivers
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't feel afraid of public speaking until I'm there trying to do it
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: the fire kept to its promised timing
    Zen (zen.arado): I would be the other way around
    Eliza Madrigal: very dreary here...feel we should meet somewhere new next week
    Zen (zen.arado): yes I don't like snow
    Riddle Sideways: wear a warm ugly sweater
    Eliza Madrigal: I like it when it is bright and ice skatable :)
     
    Wim Hof
     
    Zen (zen.arado): who would  Sit out in the snow?
    Eliza Madrigal: lol
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): it's cold and snowy enough in RL
    Zen (zen.arado): Yep
    Tura Brezoianu: Wim Hof :)
    Zen (zen.arado): who is he?
    Tura Brezoianu: Known as "The Iceman", practicesand teaches  extreme cold endurance.
    Zen (zen.arado): Interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, funny that you had that reference so near to hand
    Tura Brezoianu: I've been doing some of his exercises lately
    Eliza Madrigal: do they work?
    Tura Brezoianu: Not really sure yet.
    Zen (zen.arado): I read somewhere that  our ancient ancestors could withstand severe cold
    Riddle Sideways: life is short, why be cold
    Tura Brezoianu: But I can do 2 minutes in an 8°C shower.
    Eliza Madrigal: @@
    Zen (zen.arado): we spoiled it by wearing clothes because that interferes  with natural thermostat
    Eliza Madrigal: If you want to go on an adventure, camping or climbing or some such
    Eliza Madrigal: makes sense to me... sadly I never have to use such techniques... hot and humid even today >wah<
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): my hands get very cold in the winter
     
    Eliza Madrigal: are the techniques visualizations... like imagining hot hands?
    Tura Brezoianu: More practical things: breathing exercises, cold showers, ice baths....
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): wrapping them around a mug of hot chocolate is my favorite technique
    Zen (zen.arado): :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: interesting, wonder how many of the tibetan techniques arose as a result of mitigating such conditions
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, sounds yummy
     
    Keeping Warm_007.jpgKeeping Warm_009.jpg
     
    Eliza Madrigal: Want to tp us to your spot next week Alma? Save us from soggy/dreary? :)
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): yes, we can meet on my land if you like
    Eliza Madrigal: thank you!
    Eliza Madrigal: so we can just IM you when signing on if that's okay
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): ok, or I can give you a LM to put in the announcement
    Eliza Madrigal: Ok, if you feel okay with that
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): I'll have to pick a spot and put out some cushions
    Eliza Madrigal: great
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): my land is open to the public, so I don't mind giving out LMs
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
     
    Eliza Madrigal: Also, I can't be here Christmas day, and possibly the week before, but don't want to cancel if others can make it
    Eliza Madrigal: the week before is 50/50
    Zen (zen.arado): may be you should just cancel them
    Eliza Madrigal: up to you guys, sometimes it is nice to come into SL for holidays :)
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): it's a busy time.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: the week after that is Jan 1, but I'm not planning any wild partying so should be okay - but again, up to others :))
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): we can have wild dreams ;)
    Zen (zen.arado): I won't be partying either
    Riddle Sideways: Parties are later here
    Eliza Madrigal: OK ^.^ So we'll meet next week for sure, and then again on Jan 1
    Zen (zen.arado): okay
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): sounds good
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel soggy, hah
    Eliza Madrigal: whoosh
    Riddle Sideways: whoops
    Riddle Sideways: started a fire
    Zen (zen.arado): bye everybody
    Riddle Sideways: by
    Riddle Sideways: All
    Tura Brezoianu: goodnight all
    Eliza Madrigal: bye Zen, bye everybody <3
    Eliza Madrigal: have a good week
    Alma di Masala (almadi.masala): bye!
    Eliza Madrigal: yikes
    Tura Brezoianu: hm
     
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