Words about using Words

2008.08.05 07:00 - Six hour Session

Fael Illyar: what is Aristotle’s idea of catharsis?
Doc Freenote: better than I can articulate it : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis
Fael Illyar: I think I understand this catharsis now. Something I've experienced myself with really good books and even some television series.
Doc Freenote: by the way, I am not trying to be all high-minded by throwing out these terms. . . they are just the conceptions left in my mind by various professors. . . so they are part of my thought process now. Language can have a way of creating distance when jargon is introduced. That is not my intention of course
Riddle Sideways: Understood. I was not thinking that way
Fael Illyar doesn't mind, as long as she can understand what is being talked about.
Fael Illyar: Although, I do not think in words. When I'm writing or talking, it's all translation from something wordless.
Riddle Sideways: As it should be
Doc Freenote: hmm… I think i process a lot by making these verbal connections to concepts i have heard, read, or studied. It is interesting how people process in different ways.
Riddle Sideways: some of the words that I (mostly) understand have only been read and never spoken to me. When I pronounce them the first time in public. Others correct me.
Adelene Dawner: Been there, Riddle :)
Fael Illyar: I sometimes have that too.
Doc Freenote: what do you mean?
Riddle Sideways: there are many words that I have only read. I could use them in writing but cannot pronouce them
Doc Freenote: I see yes we speak and write in very different ways. Also this is a text chat. . . so it follows a certain course that would be very different if we were speaking, right?
Riddle Sideways: correct

All leading and following at the same time

Riddle Sideways: I have been an English speaker for all my life and when Shakespeare is read by me I do not understand
Fael Illyar: Yes, nothing prevents us from talking (writing) all at once.
Fael Illyar: No need to wait for others to stop before you begin. You can also edit what you're going to say before you show it to others.
Riddle Sideways: Yes, I do
Doc Freenote: Good point. That has a big influence on the discourse doesn't it
Riddle Sideways: wouldn't that be nice in RL or verbal chat to delete / edit
Fael Illyar: Much less need to worry about not talking on top of each other.
Doc Freenote: Interesting to consider which is preferable
Riddle Sideways: And we keep 2-4 threads going
Fael Illyar: Of course, more than 4 writing at once all the time tends to get a bit difficult to follow :) ... maybe that is more than 4 threads
Fael Illyar: At least with text, you can verify what you wrote after the fact :) Also, with text, all of our speech looks mostly the same so there is not much danger of bits being lost because of random noises. Simpler to "receive" the message :)
Doc Freenote: True
Doc Freenote: There is a transcript. One can also see, visually, if he has dominated the conversation. . .
Adelene Dawner chuckles at Doc.
Doc Freenote: it is very tempting for me to follow my own line of thinking with text. . .
Fael Illyar: your own line of thinking?

Avastu enters.

Riddle Sideways: One of the greatest teachers I ever saw would walk around the room, using different words to each person. I would not get what he said to my neighbour but the words he used to me were. Always right on, they were the words I needed.
Doc Freenote: interesting. Because the teacher knew that we all speak different languages in a way. That is very interesting
Riddle Sideways: Yes, it was an amazing thing to watch
Doc Freenote: Uncommon I think
Fael Illyar: Talking to someone goes much easier when you talk the language he/she understands.
Riddle Sideways: I really have never met another teacher like that. He was part magician too. In that what he said might not become true for a few minutes. I would GET it minutes later.
Doc Freenote: It sounds like this teacher was interested more in communication. Most professors tend to become absorbed in the language of their own field.
Riddle Sideways: He was into deeper communication and knew that the words were different for each set of ears/minds.
Doc Freenote: How was he so keyed in to his students' personal languages?
Riddle Sideways: I am not completely sure, but have studied it for years. He "KNEW" each person. He was so tuned in that what you needed came out of his body.
Riddle Sideways: Third point about him was that he was "not to be worshipped". Many gurus become idols. He smoked, drank and womanized yet if you could hear his words
Doc Freenote: Kenneth Rexroth said something like: there are two ways of knowing: UNDERstanding and OVERbearing. Most teachers try to overbear. But this teacher seems like he was more interested in understanding and all that implies. Meaning he had investigated his students' languages and wanted to succeed in communicating with them rather than dominating them.
Riddle Sideways: Yes, he spent his life understanding the subject he taught and how to teach it to individuals.
Riddle Sideways: Ha, actually, in some cases I saw him over-dominate some students. In some cases, he did nothing for or to some students. It was not for me to know why some were treated such. Only the way I was taught by him was meant for me.

Lines

Riddle Sideways: Sorry all, for taking all the chat here. Getting off the line
Fael Illyar: nothing prevents us from saying something :) It isn't that you are dominating the discussion. It's that we are not speaking. Well, both at once, really. But the cause -> effect chain is "we don't speak" -> "you dominate". Therefore, you have nothing to apologize for.
Adelene Dawner: not the other way around. yes.
Riddle Sideways: TY
Riddle Sideways: I am not that great teacher that bob Nado is
Fael Illyar: I think he'd prefer you stop worshipping him ;)
Riddle Sideways: lol You are right.