2017.02.04 13:00 - Relative Pronouns and Worchestershire Sauce

 

The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

 

--BELL—

 

Raffila Millgrove: Hi Bruce.

Raffila Millgrove: is there a Guardian meet today?

Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Raffi.

Bruce Mowbray: I don't think so.

Bruce Mowbray: Maybe I missed the notice.

Bruce Mowbray: Did you receive a notice of a G. Mtg.?

Raffila Millgrove: I thought one was sent like.. two week ago or such?

Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.

Raffila Millgrove: no. not today but I thought the canceled one said.. today was the day.

Bruce Mowbray: It would be at 2 p.m. then.

Raffila Millgrove: ah well...

Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Riddle.

Raffila Millgrove: Hi Riddle

Riddle Sideways: hi All

Bruce Mowbray: Is there a guardians’ mtg today, Riddle?

Riddle Sideways: love rental ice skates, can take them on grass, sidewalks, indoors

Bruce Mowbray: :)

Bruce Mowbray thinks Rid sounds like a chatbot.

Bruce Mowbray: Is there a guardians’ mtg today, Riddle?

Riddle Sideways: giggles

Riddle Sideways: checking email

Riddle Sideways: on jan. 26 it was scheduled for today 2pm

Bruce Mowbray: kk, ty.

Bruce Mowbray: 2 p.m. today, then.

Riddle Sideways: seems so

Raffila Millgrove: thanks Riddle. I thought I had that right. lol

Bruce Mowbray: I must have missed that one.

Raffila Millgrove: but.... maybe it's not happening.

Riddle Sideways: will need to check reality later

Raffila Millgrove nods.

Riddle Sideways: see what history showed

Raffila Millgrove: there was no note today sent.

Bruce Mowbray: I did not receive a note either, Raffi.

Riddle Sideways: however, that is just the Facts known to one little person = means nothin

Bruce Mowbray finished reading "The Swerve" yesterday....

Riddle Sideways: no note

Bruce Mowbray: amazing book.

Riddle Sideways: going to get lunch, bb-soon

Raffila Millgrove: i realize that... my husband's men’s book group read that took. i thought the title sounded familiar. they all liked it.

Raffila Millgrove: why did you like it Bruce?

Bruce Mowbray: Chapter 8 is especially good: "The way things are"

Bruce Mowbray: Beautifully written, in the first place. Then,

Bruce Mowbray: very informative.

Bruce Mowbray: I had no idea . . . that western civilization had hung by such thin threads.

Bruce Mowbray: Delightfully detailed.

Bruce Mowbray: Incredibly well documented too.

Bruce Mowbray: The footnotes and appendix are one-fourth of the entire book.

Raffila Millgrove: I wonder what Riddle is eating for lunch.

Bruce Mowbray: :)

Bruce Mowbray: Rabbit?

Raffila Millgrove nods in appreciation too of Bruce's summary of the book.

Bruce Mowbray: sry, Rid.

Raffila Millgrove: oh i love rabbit.

Bruce Mowbray: Oh dear.

Bruce Mowbray: NO HUNTING on PaB property.

Raffila Millgrove: esp rabbit strew.

Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!

Raffila Millgrove: stew. gosh i have no idea why I have become such a typo queen lately. it's dreadful.

Raffila Millgrove: maybe because I don't come here much anymore and am not typing much either.

Bruce Mowbray ponders "typo queen..."

Bruce Mowbray: Maybe you should look into Dragon Naturally Speaking, Raffi.

Raffila Millgrove: I am handwriting again for mystery reason. things such happen... like that. don't they.

Raffila Millgrove: one day you are typing all day. a month later.. you are busy with the pen. odd. life is very odd to me.

Bruce Mowbray: Handwriting is GREAT, Also calligraphy!

Bruce Mowbray: Life is odd, indeed.

Raffila Millgrove: maybe I should make a comment on the book.. since i missed meets and i buried my comment in the wiki.

Bruce Mowbray: "The Swerve" got me re-interested in Italic calligraphy.

Bruce Mowbray listens for Raffi's comments.

Raffila Millgrove: here is a story of my granddaughter. she asks me....what happened to a plant. and i say... frost got it.. it died.

Raffila Millgrove: and she says.. why do people get old? when they get old, then they die.

Bruce Mowbray listens....

Raffila Millgrove: and she says everyone will get old. will I? and I say.. yes.. someday you will be an old lady.

Bruce Mowbray nods.

Raffila Millgrove: and she says. i guess Mommy will get old and die. Daddy will die.

Raffila Millgrove: Even Logan (her baby brother) will get old and die.. and I too....

 

--BELL—

 

Raffila Millgrove: then she stops. in that .. silence.. where she can't finish that sentence...

Raffila Millgrove: we have a total understanding between us.

Raffila Millgrove: she cannot imagine. cannot admit that she will die... this is the way of youth. you cannot quite.. say it. believe it.

Riddle Sideways: back

Raffila Millgrove: it is that silence...

Bruce Mowbray: wb, Riddle.

Riddle Sideways: ummm, left-overs

Riddle Sideways: clean refrig

Bruce Mowbray: Do you think that very young children should be told about death like that, Raffi?

Raffila Millgrove: that I think.. is what Maxine writes about.. how she cannot recreate a session.. times spent with people. she can... explain what was said.. what people did.. but it's not the same as the actual experience.

Riddle Sideways: soup is being made and need to run (sometime) for ingredient

Raffila Millgrove: Bruce. I was not telling her about death.

Raffila Millgrove: she was talking about it herself.

Raffila Millgrove: I said a plant died.

Bruce Mowbray: I know. But still, is there an age too young to know about death?

Bruce Mowbray: My sister watched her father die -- at the age of six.

Bruce Mowbray: Right in front of her.

Raffila Millgrove: wow Bruce.. you are missing this.. point i just made. er it's not about death it was about.. the silence.

Bruce Mowbray: I understand your point -- that the child asked the question...

Raffila Millgrove cracks the bell hard for some reason cause she is attempting to speak of silence when we are supposed to Be silent. she's so silly.

Bruce Mowbray: kk, the silence.

Bruce Mowbray: Yes.

Raffila Millgrove: no no. she wasn't asking a question.

Raffila Millgrove: she was listing out all the people close to her who would die someday.

Bruce Mowbray: Maybe the silence asked the question -- and answered it, too.

Raffila Millgrove: wow.

Bruce Mowbray: I meant to ask a sort of generic question -- not specifically about the grandmother, etc.... just a question about when children should be taught about death and dying....

Raffila Millgrove: well i was.. making a point about the book not about death etc.. so.. i guess i didn't make it right.

Bruce Mowbray: Maxine's book, yes....

Riddle Sideways: lol hehehehe talking about the Sounds of Silence during the BE SILENT time

Bruce Mowbray: but I do think your comment was relevant.

Bruce Mowbray: There is a new rendition of that vocal, Rid.... absolutely beautiful.

Bruce Mowbray: will try to find it now....

Bruce Mowbray: Here it is:

Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9z87viDmOo

Bruce Mowbray: "new" is relative, of course (2011)

Riddle Sideways: yes!!! New is always relative

Bruce Mowbray: :)

Bruce Mowbray: Is "old" also relative, then?

Riddle Sideways: of course

Bruce Mowbray: My typist is "old"... relatively.

Riddle Sideways: Being related to both

Raffila Millgrove goes off to eat lunch... no news of any guardian meet at 2.... so... I catch you guys later.. if it does happen today. rather doubt it. Raffi waves.

Bruce Mowbray: and the older he gets, the fewer relatives he has.

Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Raffi.

Bruce Mowbray: You can scoot off to the grocery now, if you wish, Riddle.

Bruce Mowbray: No need to stay on my account.

Riddle Sideways: eating lunch for now

Bruce Mowbray: :)

Riddle Sideways: a tray of refrig leftovers

Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh... Yum yum.

Riddle Sideways: maybe took too much, somebody just yelled down asking where the leftover macaroni salad is

Bruce Mowbray: HA HA!

 

--BELL—

 

Bruce Mowbray: Let them eat cake.

Riddle Sideways: this that steak_set veggie?

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I just gave you one.

Riddle Sideways: ty

Bruce Mowbray: yw.

Bruce Mowbray: Care for some A1 sauce too?

Bruce Mowbray: NO, not veggie.

Bruce Mowbray: Still mooing beef.

Riddle Sideways: never know, a SL virtual steak made of bits and pixels could be soy proteins

Bruce Mowbray ponders steak made of soy in virtual reality.

Bruce Mowbray thinks he'll have another.

Bruce Mowbray: me misses mouth with fork.

Bruce Mowbray: also misses the / key.

Riddle Sideways: watches you feeding your cheek

Bruce Mowbray ponders “Feed your Cheeks!”  as some sort of alt-slogan.

Riddle Sideways: you should have a virtual baked potato and a virtual beer to go with it

Bruce Mowbray: There is a virtual orange thingie here.

Bruce Mowbray: and apparently I just ate it.

Riddle Sideways: Orange thingie is the new ...

Riddle Sideways: A1 sause

Bruce Mowbray: ahhh!

Bruce Mowbray: As a child, I grew to love Worchestershire sauce.

Riddle Sideways: did also

Bruce Mowbray: not as easily obtained today as it was then.

Riddle Sideways: then got sick of it

Bruce Mowbray nods.

Bruce Mowbray: I have not had any for years.

Bruce Mowbray: I'm on my third steak now.... have lost count.

Bruce Mowbray ponders eating A1 Sauce with the fork.

Bruce Mowbray: Sorry if I was rude. Didn't mean to eat in front of you, Rid.

Riddle Sideways: the Raffi misunderstanding dialog was almost like Botty's chat today

Bruce Mowbray: Really?  Please say more.

Riddle Sideways: the almost having a topic track and then zing off into left field

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that happens sometimes.

Bruce Mowbray: I was not sure of whom her pronouns referred.

Bruce Mowbray: I thought the grandmother (Raffi) was telling the story to the grandchild...

Riddle Sideways: pronouns are evil

Bruce Mowbray: and that the child was asking questions about death...

Bruce Mowbray: I'm still not sure what was happening,

Riddle Sideways: or the reader was

Riddle Sideways: or there was the silence

Bruce Mowbray: because then she said she wasn't talking about the grandmother at all but about Maxine's book.

Riddle Sideways: the aha gap

Bruce Mowbray: yes, and the silence.

Bruce Mowbray: Then I said, "Maybe the silence was both asking and answering the questions."

Bruce Mowbray: (like a chatbot, perhaps.)

Riddle Sideways: reminiscent

Bruce Mowbray ponders the moral proclivities of parts of speech . . e.g. pronouns.

Bruce Mowbray: How's the macaroni?

Riddle Sideways: using pronouns can easily let the listener/reader go off on guesses

Bruce Mowbray: (Like a well-coded chatbot, Bruce refers to something mentioned earlier in the conversation.)

Bruce Mowbray: Well, yes, "they" always told "her” “ that....”

Bruce Mowbray: I can imagine that chatbots would have troubles with them, also.

 

--BELL—

 

Bruce Mowbray: them = pronouns

Riddle Sideways: yes, was looking at how "that”  is used in the coding

Riddle Sideways: 'that' is a var, but this reader jumps into knowing that as a word

Riddle Sideways: well what is That

Bruce Mowbray: "that" is a relative pronoun. . . . different from personal pronouns, which might be easier to code into chatbots.

Riddle Sideways: where did That come from

Bruce Mowbray: Where did that "that" come from?

Riddle Sideways: how did That get on my shoe

Bruce Mowbray: Also, it would be cool if a chatbot could be programmed to give special emphasis to words... like,

Riddle Sideways: one that [That] has only one level of depth

Bruce Mowbray: How did that get on my SHOE!

Bruce Mowbray: or How did that GET on my shoe?

Bruce Mowbray: or How did that get on MY shoe?

Bruce Mowbray: etc etc.

Riddle Sideways: machine starts doing those same type of sentence diagraming we did in school

Bruce Mowbray: I loved sentence diagramming in school.

Riddle Sideways: yes, loved those

Bruce Mowbray: When I taught English to eighth graders, we used to do that too.

Bruce Mowbray: I taught prepositional phrases first -- even before subject and verb.

Riddle Sideways: and the prepositional phrases were shown to be useless and could go away and dangled off the end of

Bruce Mowbray: unique, no?

Bruce Mowbray: Exactly!

Bruce Mowbray: Once you get rid of all the unnecessary phrases, you can get down to real business...

Bruce Mowbray: also, you will already know how to punctuate.

Bruce Mowbray: putting the phrases between commas, perhaps.

Riddle Sideways: seems subject/verb had to be first

Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, that's old school.

Riddle Sideways: or just a pile of stick words on the floor

Riddle Sideways: the janitor hated That

Bruce Mowbray: Good -- I just got a reminder for guardians mtg.

Bruce Mowbray: But we picked them up off the floor after we got rid of the prepositional phrases (properly, of course).

Bruce Mowbray: recycled.

Riddle Sideways: hopefully before the 5-second rule

Riddle Sideways: germs ya know

Bruce Mowbray: I made a mechanical device that operated on sentence structure...

Bruce Mowbray: in real life.

Bruce Mowbray: and brought it into the classroom...

Riddle Sideways: gears and cables? That broke on That

Bruce Mowbray: kids loved it.

Bruce Mowbray: rotating disks.

Bruce Mowbray: with multiple words and phrases.

Bruce Mowbray: so the device would make sentences..

Riddle Sideways: The words on the sentence go round and round

Bruce Mowbray: like, 'The green hippo flew into the yellow planet.’

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, like that.

Bruce Mowbray: Like a roulette wheel...

Bruce Mowbray: with multiple options...

Riddle Sideways: well, lunch is over

Bruce Mowbray: and I challenged the kids to figure out how many possible sentences might be made by the machine.

Bruce Mowbray: burp.

Bruce Mowbray: I'm off to the guardian mtg now.

Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Riddle.

Riddle Sideways: thanks for the time