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04-06 - Mickorods favorite bits

    Mick says: I had a number of domestic hurdles re. internet connections due to moving house mid scribe. I would have loved to have been more adventurous and artistic but eventually was relieved that I managed to get it posted without a big delay. This is a collection of what I enjoyed most during the scribe period but must say that it represents just a small amount of the logs, all of which was fun to read. 

    2009.09.04 13:00 - exploring openly and critically

    This session was particularly interesting as it was Lia's account of her findings during the retreat. I am sure you will all enjoy reading it..even again

    Lia Rikugun: if you want i can give you my impression of the retreat :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes great Lia
    Wol Euler: please do :)
    Pema Pera: yes, Adelene :)
    Pema Pera: Lia will talk
    Lia Rikugun: actuially i didnt prepare anything :)
    Pema Pera: even better!
    Lia Rikugun: i found it aslo very nice (as pema remarked as well) that PaB attracts so many nice and wonderful people
    Lia Rikugun: )
    Lia Rikugun: it was great to meet some in RL somehow for me it still is a different experience ;)
    Lia Rikugun: as many of you know by now maybe
    Pema Pera: Hi Sophia!
    Lia Rikugun: we did 2 sessions of "meditation" "exercise" "exploratoion
    Lia Rikugun: the first day i think it was with the words "appreciate the presence of appearance" right pema?
    Lia Rikugun: well what does this really mean?
    Lia Rikugun: haha, i still dont know exactly
    Pema Pera: :)
    Lia Rikugun: but ok lets just try something
    Lia Rikugun: and we will see what will come out
    Lia Rikugun: so what I did in the first meditation was somehow what pema suggested in the pheno workshop once
    Fael Illyar: well, I believe I'm likely correct to say that it ought to be interpreted more widely than anyone of us interprets it :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Lia Rikugun: this was seing images you see as 2d image
    Lia Rikugun: and sounds you hear as something happening here and not seperate from you
    Lia Rikugun: well this confused me for 2 days !
    Lia Rikugun: :D
    Lia Rikugun: which was also an interesting experience
    Lia Rikugun: you somehow dont really know anymore what is true and what not
    Lia Rikugun: what can I really believe in?
    Lia Rikugun: well i dont know
    Lia Rikugun: i have my specific ideas about the world and this is all working
    Lia Rikugun: but actually there is most probably more
    Lia Rikugun: well i dont know if there is more
    Lia Rikugun: i think there is more
    Lia Rikugun: it could also be only imagination ;)
    Lia Rikugun: hehe
    Lia Rikugun: lets go 2 paths
    Archmage Atlantis: The comment "what can I really believe in" is in the core of all religion and philosophical thought
    Lia Rikugun: one critical one and one explorative one
    Pema Pera: (footnote: I don't think I suggested to focus on 2D, but I have mentioned the analogy of a movie quite a number of times -- and though a movie does appear on a 2D screen, we experience it as 3D -- but somehow Fefonz and Lia have picked up the 2D aspect and ran with it, which of course is okay too; I guess it hadn't occurred to me, that aspect, when I mentioned the movie notion)
    Lia Rikugun: ok so i see the critical perspective as something which can bring me back to the ground
    Lia Rikugun: when i get too confused
    Lia Rikugun: and I need something to hold on to
    Lia Rikugun: and on the other hand
    Lia Rikugun: if i just try out somethings any kind of exploration as long as i feel ok with it
    Lia Rikugun: i can find out several things
    Lia Rikugun: this is what i found out for me
    Lia Rikugun: is this going into the right direction?
    Lia Rikugun: or would you like me to tell you something different?
    Lia Rikugun: well then I tried to concentrate on one kind of exploration i talk about with pema
    Archmage Atlantis: For me, it is well said and inciteful
    Lia Rikugun: I call it "going to the happy place" hehe
    Lia Rikugun: (this is some imaginary place i came up with when i really felt stressed out once)
    Lia Rikugun: (to relax)
    Lia Rikugun: hm
    Lia Rikugun: so i will tell you how it looks like
    Lia Rikugun: but i wont twell you where it is :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Lia Rikugun: itw ill get to crowded
    Lia Rikugun: ;)
    Lia Rikugun: so it is a very green lawn
    Adelene Dawner whispers "my apologies, work calls" and quietly leaves.
    Lia Rikugun: the green lawn and a little river
    Lia Rikugun: sometimes lying on the grass or just standing at the creek
    Lia Rikugun: with pema I started exploring this place
    Lia Rikugun: I found a little forest
    Lia Rikugun: and a little house
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lia Rikugun: in the house there lives an old man
    Lia Rikugun: to whom I talk from time to time
    Lia Rikugun: ;)
    Lia Rikugun: ok critical me: well these are just memories from the past
    Lia Rikugun: pictures you put together
    Lia Rikugun: - well I dont know maybe it is maybe it isnt
    Lia Rikugun: but its fun!
    Lia Rikugun: so i continue going there from time to time, meeting new people
    Lia Rikugun: seeing different things
    SophiaSharon Larnia sighs happily
    Lia Rikugun: i decide that even though the situation seems unusual maybe i should just be open and see hwat is happening
    Lia Rikugun: and this directly relates to RL too, no?
    Lia Rikugun: you project your own expectations to a situation
    Wol Euler: oh yes :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this visualization reminds me of looking at the world, to accept it as it is, to let some things go maybe
    Lia Rikugun: oh and doug gave us a wonderful introduction to Tai Chi every morning
    Pema Pera: yes, to appreciate both the attractive and unattractive
    Lia Rikugun: thank you!
    Archmage Atlantis: Perhaps others can see if you cannot, being inside the box isn't the best camera angle
    doug Sosa: the danger is to arrive at knowing it and having lost it on the way.
    Archmage Atlantis: It is my understanding that to suffer is to learn and is a path to enlightenment
    Wol Euler: well, I think that I exist, but I might be wrong. Perhaps I am just a part of your hallucination, that imagines itself to be self-aware
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a conclusion implies and end to something...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: an*
    Archmage Atlantis: Not that enlightment is a steady state
    Pema Pera: openness can come in many degrees
    Pema Pera: from an idea, to a stance, to an effort . . .
    Pema Pera: the more radical ways are always surprising when you fall into them, even very briefly
    Pema Pera: about what really exists: Wol, perhaps existence is relative -- relative to a frame, an assumption, a kind of story we weave, but it may not be sensible to talk about something "existing" in any absolute way -- does that make sense?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Lia, you said: lets go 2 paths, one critical one and one explorative one
    SophiaSharon Larnia: is this what you mean by radical openness?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (or Pema) :))
    Lia Rikugun: pema used the words radical openness, and I understand the explorative me as the very open one
    Lia Rikugun: the critical one takes me back to the ground to rethink what I saw or felt
    Lia Rikugun: to see if this makes sense
    Pema Pera: it's part of it, Sophia, a way to go deeper and deeper, way deeper than you initially held possible
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, i know what you mean by needing to go back to ground
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
    Lia Rikugun: i dont mean that the critical me will throw everything away which doesnt sound logical
    Lia Rikugun: it will just say- maybe it is your imagination maybe it is more
    Pema Pera: keeping that judgment open too
    Wol Euler wonders about "imagination" as a negative term, a lesser quality. When Mozart imagined "Don Giovanni", was that an inferior moment?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, ive been thinking about the imagination piece the last few weeks :)
    Archmage Atlantis: As one who wished to be a theoritical mathematician in a prior life, all logic does is extend the assumptions one makes when one begins the prove
    Archmage Atlantis: *proof
    Archmage Atlantis: Logic does not invalidate the assumptions

    **********************************************************************************************************************************


    2009.09.04 19:00 - 9 Seconds over Briar Patch

                            picki via wikapedia.'Brer Rabbit and the tar baby'


    Archmage Atlantis: But most people never move outside of the action of the moment
    Archmage Atlantis: In their minds
    Doug Sosa: oh i think the reverse, they never give up conceptual momentum for actual experience.
    Archmage Atlantis: Well, nothing like getting in the last word :)
    Pila Mulligan: did you ever hear the Uncle Remus story of Bre'r Rabbit and the tarbaby?
    Archmage Atlantis: Grew up on it, Pila
    Archmage Atlantis: How bout you Eos?
    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao, tarbabies et al
    Archmage Atlantis: Very nice, Blessings and a happy reunion
    Pila Mulligan: for those reading the log, and not familiar with the tarbaby -- http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug97/remus/tar-baby.html
    Pila Mulligan: the tarbaby is a kind of metaphor for being stuck in thoughts
    Pila Mulligan: dougs' 'conceptual momentum' and your 'never move outside of the action of the moment' both seem to address that being stuck
    Archmage Atlantis: Interesting idea, you mean from the standpoint of the character who was planning to throw Brer Rabbit in, I assume
    Pila Mulligan: so what's new Arch?
    Pila Mulligan: no
    Pila Mulligan: just the overall idea
    Pila Mulligan: of getting caught up in things
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, I would differentiate
    Pila Mulligan: remember, Brer Rabbit got himself stuck in the tar
    Archmage Atlantis: Right, wrong story, I was bringing up the briar patch story
    Pila Mulligan: "Br'er Fox constructs a doll out of a lump of tar and dressed it with some clothes. When Br'er Rabbit comes along he addresses the tar "baby" amiably, but receives no response. Br'er Rabbit becomes offended by what he perceives as the Tar Baby's lack of manners, punches it, and in doing so becomes stuck. Now that Br'er Rabbit is stuck, Br'er Fox ponders how to dispose of him."
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it is often told with the tarbaby
    Pila Mulligan: "don't throw me into the briar patch, Br'er Fox!"
    Pila Mulligan: after he was caught
    Archmage Atlantis: And Brer Fox is equally stuck in his own ideas
    Archmage Atlantis: That is what I thought you were saying
    Pila Mulligan: yes, by doing just what Br'er Rabbit seems not to want -- that is, throwing him into the briar patch -- he allows Br'er Rabbit to escape
    Pila Mulligan: so everyone is stuck in the velocity of their thoughts
    Archmage Atlantis: What Eos calls non-Duality, I would equate with a life of contemplation
    Pila Mulligan: could be, I was not really sure what he meant :)
    Pila Mulligan: I would tend to suppose he meant the same as Dr. Bronner
    Archmage Atlantis: The 9 seconds I equate with contemplation, but not removed from RL
    Pila Mulligan: yes, 'All One!'
    Archmage Atlantis: This is where I differ with Doug, and why the idea of being caught in one's own thoughts comes to mind
    Pila Mulligan: (last night here I went into some detail as to why I think the 9 seconds is more like yoga than contemplation)
    Pila Mulligan: I was not really sure what Doug meant, also
    Archmage Atlantis: One is equally trapped by the tar baby that exists, or by one's own thoughts

    ***************************************************************************************************************************


    2009.09.05 01:00 - Awesome Incense & Gardens

     Moon visits again


    Moon Fargis listens to the cooking water and smells the insence stick he lighted infront of his buddha statue while the cold rain drops to the leafs outside
    Wol Euler smiles
    Wol Euler has a tiny statue of Ganesh behind her incense stick.
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Moon Fargis: aha^^
    Wol Euler: also a smurf, Bart Simpson, a santa clause, and an Otaku girl sculpture from the Japanese pavilion at a Venice Biennale :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: interesting collection:)
    Wol Euler chuckles. I collect strange things, chosen partly for their strangeness
    Wol Euler: there's also a air of pretty stones and an origami frog and a chestnut.
    Scathach Rhiadra: nice:)

    ************************************************************************************************************************** 


    2009.09.05 07:00 - People Salad Behavior Villages


    Eos Amaterasu: So, how does Play as Being practice, societally, further sustainable being?
    doug Sosa: the blog had 40 last night and 20 so far this moning. No stats on the webpages.
    Paul Namiboo: It at least helps me think about how people spend their time vs how they might be happier spending their time
    Eos Amaterasu: I'll tweet it
    doug Sosa: eos that is a great question and much on my mind. The general loosening up of conceptual thinking to allow in new experiences and ways of seeing..
    Eos Amaterasu: That why I love the village idea (thnx Pema et al)!
    Pema Pera: yw, Eos!
    Eos Amaterasu: We can experiement with how to live that way, and what diffs it makes
    Pema Pera: and some day we may build a RL village :-)
    Pema Pera: or did you discuss that already?
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: It does relate, Pila for one has been mentioning that
    Paul Namiboo: One of my hopes is that we might move a lot of the competitive consumption onto SL -- it would make a RL village much pleasanter
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Make the virtual nature of it more obvious
    Eos Amaterasu: it = consumption
    doug Sosa: I realize that one thing i like about SL is the absence of traffic in this region.

    **************************************************************************************************************************


    2009.09.05 13:00 - Opportunities


    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i think we can also drop down to a chat level and just appreciate the session

    SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes it is Qt, but sometimes it isnt

    Yakuzza Lethecus: and listen to stim's lectures at the same time :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh??? may I have the link Yakuzza, please :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://berkeleymonastery.org/steven/fall07.asp

    Yakuzza Lethecus: eliza gave me the link first :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you!!!!

    SophiaSharon Larnia: this was just what i was looking for but didnt think it existed Yakuzza

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i was already listening to other berkley lectures since they have them availible through itunes

    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i never thought about looking for stim so far

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I am reading time space and knowledge

    SophiaSharon Larnia: but to say 'reading' is a bit of a misnomer

    Wol Euler: cool. how do you find it?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, i have to stop everything else I'm doing

    SophiaSharon Larnia: including everything else i am thinking

    SophiaSharon Larnia: its not something i could take on a train

    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: i didnt know it was so full of exercises
    Mickorod Renard: I cant express my admiration for you Yaku,,understanding the concepts of this stuff is hard even if your first language is english

    Yakuzza Lethecus: ähm don't admire me, i try not to think about it

    Mickorod Renard: I get all mixed up..and even if I dont I seem to forget what I have grasped by the next session

    Mickorod Renard: but I dont think its doing me any harm,,he he

    arabella Ella: what do you think you are getting as positive benefits from listening to Stim, Yak? I am curious

    Yakuzza Lethecus: it's hard to answer that for now, it's a concept i think i will always get something from listening to lectures or even being here

    *************************************************************************************************************************


    2009.09.06 07:00 - Uncluttering and then..


    Paul Namiboo: One of the terrible things is an inability to let go of things that you imagine one day will be very important again in your life
    Adams Rubble: I will give you a notecard then about us
    Eos Amaterasu has a basement full of that kind of stuff :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... things that are steps removed from application and yet you must maintain them...put energy into them
    Paul Namiboo: Hi Cleo, sorry I was distracted....
    Eos Amaterasu: Maybe also we pay all the attention to the thing, and not to the whole process of how it arrives, and how it goes off
    Eos Amaterasu: we had a dinner party last night
    Eos Amaterasu: the prep was as much part of the party as the party proper
    Paul Namiboo: When we moved into an aaprtment we had to give away ~9000 books -- I thought it was a disaster, but it turns out about 8956 of them were actually clutter
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: ditto cleanup (to lesser extent :-)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Paul Namiboo: depends on who you are cleaning up with
    Eos Amaterasu: even alone can be okay
    Eliza Madrigal: yes tht's an interesting idea Eos...that we section off our lives arbitraily sometimes
    Eliza Madrigal: *arbitrarily
    Paul Namiboo: it can be a great time to think, just like swimming
    Eos Amaterasu: appreciating arising, presence, exiting of appearance :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Agreed, Paul :)
    Adams Rubble: It takes a big effort to get rid of clutter like 8956 books
    Eliza Madrigal: It also takes ruthlessness
    Eliza Madrigal: determination
    Adams Rubble: sometimes it is hard just to think about the effort
    Eliza Madrigal: a 'deciding force'
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: clutter also distracts.... jump from one thing to another to another, can't see the space
    Adams Rubble: yes Eos, maybe that is what i am feeling this morning
    Eliza Madrigal: a desire to be free of it... so a taste of something else maybe... like... "If I didn't have this big of a house to tend, I could travel more"

    Archmage comments about land reform

    Archmage Atlantis: So Pema has cut the budget.....guardians have no free space... correct?
    Eos Amaterasu: thnx, Fael :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: A lot of land is being let go - Pema was paying for it out of pocket
    Adams Rubble: Pema has reduced his contribution to sustaining our activities
    Eos Amaterasu: On other hand idea of village to live, play in seems great
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, it has to do with grants, and how generous that he'd kept it going all this time
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Eos, that does seem great too :)
    Fael Illyar: the lands PaB has had have long been much more than necessary :)
    Archmage Atlantis: It, my friends, has to do with your commitment to this concept
    Neela Blaisdale: I believe there will still be land in Bieup and Baikun for guardian plots but I gathered from the emails, we're talking about purchasing some of the existing plots in Mungwha
    Fael Illyar: I'm surprised we've had them for this lon
    Fael Illyar: *long
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: I find it difficult to call PaB a concept
    Neela Blaisdale: yes Pema has put an unbelieveable amount of resources into our community

    ********************************************************************************************************************************


    2009.09.06 19:00 - Gifts

    Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. And today ? Today is a gift. That’s why we call it the present...........quote from CoolNsmart .com

        


    Bellily Millar: i'm sorry i always come late when i come .. what is the topic?
    stevenaia Michinaga: your parrot
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Bellily Millar: hehehe
    Bellily Millar: ok.
    Archmage Atlantis: Chard, eggplant, Hawaiian transport and now your parrot, actually
    Bellily Millar: it doesn't have a name yet
    stevenaia Michinaga: but if you have a topic, feel free
    Archmage Atlantis: Led me to think that "what is the nature/essence" of a gift might be interesting
    stevenaia Michinaga: a gift?
    stevenaia Michinaga: a thing or blessing?
    stevenaia Michinaga: or either
    Archmage Atlantis: Could be, but more if I give you a gift of an item.....I have an example
    Archmage Atlantis: A friend gave me a gift of a large cage for a cat
    stevenaia Michinaga: usually non-material gifts have a greater impact
    stevenaia Michinaga: like the gift of love
    Archmage Atlantis: She said it was mine, but then added I had to return it to her if I decided I didn't need it
    stevenaia Michinaga: love works the same why, so you are talking property issues or ethics?
    Paradise Tennant: hmm gifting is a way of expressing generosity .. connection .. regard .. respect .. friendship it is almost a form of material communication
    Archmage Atlantis: She and I got into this discussion, I said it was a gift of use, she insisted it was a gift of the cage, unless I didn't need it
    stevenaia Michinaga: a gift of a loan?
    Bellily Millar: doesn't matter if it was a gift or a loan. she wanted to impact your life in a practical way. blessing with the practical is also a form of love
    Archmage Atlantis: Exactly
    Archmage Atlantis: I would see it that way now, Belilly
    Archmage Atlantis: Then I saw it differently

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