10-12 Gen's Gems

2009.10.10 01:00 - East/West

Bertram Jacobus: one nice thing in chats is to summarize topics, to work out the essences
Scathach Rhiadra listens
Bertram Jacobus: nothing to tell more about that. all already said - in relation to both topics ;o)
Bertram Jacobus: from my side :o)
Scathach Rhiadra: ha:))
Bertram Jacobus: or - what would you like to "hear" (read) further more ? ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: which questions are open ? are some ? :-)
Scathach Rhiadra: all questions are open
Bertram Jacobus: which are without answers - (related to the topics here) ? ... :-)
Bertram Jacobus: none ?
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, I would say all, in relation to that:)
Bertram Jacobus: oh. could you express one or some ?
Scathach Rhiadra: in relation to the reality of phenomena?
Bertram Jacobus: yes. would be nice
Scathach Rhiadra: haha, yes would be nice to have an answer:))
Bertram Jacobus: but what is the question ?
Scathach Rhiadra: not sure, do you know?

Bertram Jacobus: as i tried to express before - did not succeed as it seems sadly - the hint, that there must not be so strong impressions (by thoughts, for example), better said : none, no impacts - brought to me the foreshadow, that phenomena must not be so real as we experience it normally ...
Bertram Jacobus: sorry - telephone here ...
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, I would say that all things do not have an inherently independent existant nature, so what we experience is not really as it is

Bertram Jacobus: but even more then no inherent etc. - : not real at all ! only ego may make reality out of his impressions ...
Bertram Jacobus: i´ll leave - have a nice weekend and cu soon again ... i hope ... :-)
Scathach Rhiadra nods, yes in a way, we could say that nothing exists ultimately, except the ultimate, maybe?

 

Yakuzza Lethecus: i often ask myself how western philosophy like existentialism and phenomenology is even related in it´s contents to for example ancient buddist traditions
Yakuzza Lethecus: and is it even possible that there are mindsets with the exactly same content but just have different names or are at least very close together in its contents

2009.10.10 13:00 - Life Lessons and Mindful Multi-tasking

Sami Raymaker: aha
Sami Raymaker: well, thinking how some people are dealing with us in a way to make us more patience or something like test our abilities not to react badly
SophiaSharon Larnia: some people?
Eliza Madrigal nods. Good topic
Sami Raymaker: yeah like rl friends / family etc
SophiaSharon Larnia: like they are in your life to assist you with these lessons?
Sami Raymaker: testing your temper on behavior or things said or done
Sami Raymaker: even if meditation is a daily practice .. its like being pushed out of them meditative state some how ..
SophiaSharon Larnia: i used to think of things as 'lessons' and testing' but I think that is more complex than that
SophiaSharon Larnia: a play as being practice here is to appreciate the presence of appearance of being
Eliza Madrigal: Yes its funny. I still think in terms of lessons, but not quite like there is a systematic 'place' one is getting to by listening
Eliza Madrigal: but like there is something in everything to see
SophiaSharon Larnia: and the frustrations are a part of being also
Eliza Madrigal: Yes indeed!
SophiaSharon Larnia: well, i said that wrong, but maybe you know what i meant
Sami Raymaker: yeah
Eliza Madrigal: 'Being' challenges and stretches us

Eliza Madrigal: "The foolish are trapped by karma, while the wise are liberated by karma"....Stonepeace
Eliza Madrigal: I may have paraphrased...
Eliza Madrigal: but the idea being that our limitations and conditions can actually be ways of opening
Bertram Jacobus: i like this qoute :-)
Eliza Madrigal: just like the difficulties in our lives... those finding the presence of Being in those appearances maybe :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too, like taking oppotunity of the situations that present themselves
Sami Raymaker: well, i feel that many people are concerned with cause and effects .. as they are the only things out there .. not leaving room for possibilties :)

2009.10.11 07:00 - Yes, With All the Right Intentions

Eliza Madrigal: There's a string in the harry potter movies I've liked... which is something called "devil's snare".... it is a plant like something which holds onto one.... the only way to get through it is to completely relax because it tightens as you struggle...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia! :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sophia
Eliza Madrigal: *book rather... not sure if it made it to the films
Adams Rubble: Nice analogy Eliza :)
Qt Core: yes it did
Eliza Madrigal: Ah :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: just sat down and have to go afk for a min :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Qt Core: and when sunlight (truth's light ?) hit it it dies
Eliza Madrigal: yes!
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: JK Rowling is brilliant with those pictures
Adams Rubble has a few of those plants hanging from her (giggles)
Eliza Madrigal smiles

2009.10.11 13:00 - Tended or natural garden?

Pila Mulligan: the situations I am referring to would probably be fairly infrequent, where someone feels affected by a new sensation or awareness, and would want help, but be reluctant to say so
stevenaia Michinaga: comfort is the most important, especially the comfort of questioning
Maxine Walden: hmmm, yes
Pema Pera: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: as we have seen in the past, some outright refuse to question what they need hold so tight
stevenaia Michinaga: others watch listen and learn in the very same environment we have here
stevenaia Michinaga: almost ironic
Pema Pera: :)
Maxine Walden: yes
Pema Pera: we are like a forest where everyone grows at their own pace . . . .
Pema Pera: some like the shade, some the sunshine
stevenaia Michinaga: some are weeds ?
Maxine Walden: and sometimes the same person prefers the shade while at othertimes the sun
Pema Pera loves weeds
Pema Pera: and ferns
Maxine Walden: I heard a definition of a weed, something like 'a plant you do not want to be there'
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: a gardener could be defined as someone desperately trying to let nature *not* do what it wants :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I was speaking of those weeds
Pila Mulligan: almost every yoga or meditaion teacher has expereinced several instances where someone comes to them and says 'I'm having these really strange feelings'
Maxine Walden: ferns are so cool, hundreds of millions of years old
Pila Mulligan: this is the infrequent occurrence I was trying to addres
Maxine Walden: feelings as weeds, Pila/
Maxine Walden: ?
Pila Mulligan: not necessarily, just new feelings
Pila Mulligan: sensations relating to growth thru a practice
Pila Mulligan: such a sPaB
Pila Mulligan: it is part of the journey

arabella Ella: perhaps most of us are free spirits and would prefer simple organic growth as opposed to imposed structure?
Pema Pera: in each and every session we can try to just pay a bit more attention to the practice side of things, volunteering to talk about it, asking others to say more
Wol Euler: and yet many of us feel the lack that you spoke of...
Pema Pera: why do you think that is, Wol?
Wol Euler: well, for most if not all of us, that was what brought us here in the first place.
Wol Euler: it seems to me that the amount of time spent discussing the practices has been steadily declining.
arabella Ella nods
Pema Pera: yes, I agree -- so what can we do about it?
Wol Euler: maybe this is natural, as groups get larger they acquire diffuse interests

stevenaia Michinaga: the break is a way to simply break my concentration
stevenaia Michinaga: like I said last night (not cheating, remembering)
stevenaia Michinaga: like opening up a window and getting fresh air, then the moment passes and the memory remains
stevenaia Michinaga: trust me when I say, I am not rigorous about any of this
arabella Ella: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: it happens when it happens
Mickorod Renard: for me too, its a way to re focus on what is an important side of my life that i am blind to because of continual demands to think in a box rather than outside a box
stevenaia Michinaga: just happy when it does happen
Qt Core: rl calls, heve to go, bye all
arabella Ella: i find this a place for peace and tranquility where friends are totally non judgemental
--BELL--

Pila Mulligan describing PaB to someone: first, generic, PaB is an internet discussion group that is available 4 times a day -- second, if there is further curiosity, PaB proposes practicing 9 second pauses during the day

Pila Mulligan: those two things -- chats several times a day and pauses, can add up to somehting helpful

Pila Mulligan: not necessarily doing them all the time, but having them available

Pila Mulligan: Wol, what has been most helpful in terms of your fist idea, dealing with anxiety?
Wol Euler: dropping and looking :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Wol Euler: to see what is really going on, and if that matches to what I fear
Wol Euler: because most often, it doesn't.

Pila Mulligan: do you feel anxiety as a vibration?
Wol Euler: hmmmmmm
Wol Euler: hrd to describe. it is physical, yes.
Pila Mulligan: if often can be, it seems
Wol Euler: but it comes from within me, not external
Pila Mulligan: yes
--BELL--
Wol Euler: I feel it as a sudden column of ice, from my throat down to my bowels, that grabs at my heart. My hands start to shake so badly that I cannot even type
Pila Mulligan: people sometimes refer to quivering with fear
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Pila Mulligan: the shaking is like that
Pila Mulligan: so it is a recongizable physical sensation that can be compared with feeling peaceful
Wol Euler: mmhmm, definitely.
Pila Mulligan: where you may feel warm inside and calm
Pila Mulligan: ... and to think, just seeing what is really going on can help change fear to peace
arabella Ella: isnt the difference a feeling of loss of control?
Pila Mulligan: I think it is confusion ara
Wol Euler: yes, that too. usually that, at the root
arabella Ella: also confusion
arabella Ella: but not only
Pila Mulligan: qloss of control is probably a reality
Pila Mulligan: loss*
Pila Mulligan: associated with anxiety
Wol Euler: my therapist taught me how to identify that feeling, to help to head it off by recognizing when it starts
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, feel free to join me at my 7:00 meeting :)
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Adams Rubble: hello everyone :)
Wol Euler: bye steve, take care
Adams Rubble: bye Steve
Wol Euler: heh, I was about to ask where Pila went :)
Pila Mulligan: maybe even recognizing it before it starts
Wol Euler: yes, exactly.
Wol Euler: and noting the symptoms, and how my reactions reinforced the physical effects.
Wol Euler: she pointed out that I stop breathing when I am very stressed.
Pila Mulligan: by the time it has gotten to a column of ice that grabs your heart, it is much worse and harder to deal with
Pila Mulligan: bretahing always helps

stevenaia Michinaga: one thing the group does to some extent is bit by bit makes each other's thought clearer to the person who presents them, and offers that viewpoint to everyone else
doug Sosa: I hope that is true. In any case i thin each peson benefits.
doug Sosa: think.
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure the group gets anything other than understanding
doug Sosa: well, there is the sociability.
doug Sosa: and kindness, a generosity or at the least tolerance that is unusual and wonderful.
stevenaia Michinaga: instead of my "real" or your "real" an absolute perspective, (PaB)is shared as a relative prespective of what is real by many
doug Sosa: of course :) (what did he say??)
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: I mean a balance of viewpoints seems to define what is real

doug Sosa: Yes, I am very struck by how quickly the problem of sustainability have taken in the minds of quite ordinary people, with details,
doug Sosa: and analysis, and examples.
stevenaia Michinaga: the newness of that tends to excite man and fill them with the potential of creative thinking offering solution that simply were not thought about before the awareness came to the forefront of our thoughts
stevenaia Michinaga: no more business as usualy, creativity is what is needed
stevenaia Michinaga: *Many (and man in a general sence)
doug Sosa: yet i sense that people are quite perplexed and resigned even.
doug Sosa: But awake more than usual.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, there are those who will deny the world is round too, but only in response to those who thing it is round