28-31 - All in All

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    "All in all though .. the music is sweet." Paradise Tennant


    Eliza Madrigal: May I ask how your practice is going Yakuzza?
    Eliza Madrigal: Do you find the pauses any more natural?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, i am still a bit alienated from the practice
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i am really facinated by the topic of mindfullness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and i like to see it as a reminder of becoming more mindfull and live from moment to moment
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes... nice wording
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i still can´t ,,just switch" in a concentrated state
    Yakuzza Lethecus: often falling into a situation happens by accident
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i mean falling in a pleasant way
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I heard that in a pleasant way... think that's part of it actually...


    Eos Amaterasu: PaB 90-sec style resting is I think how that "true description" is allowed
    Eos Amaterasu: it's just resting in how things are
    Eos Amaterasu: not how you would like them to be
    Eos Amaterasu: so you have some ground
    Eos Amaterasu: and some confidence in extending from that
    Eos Amaterasu: or else choicelessness
    Eos Amaterasu: you just do what the situation demands

      These spiritual window-shoppers,
      who idly ask, 'How much is that?' Oh, I'm just looking.
      They handle a hundred items and put them down,
      shadows with no capital.

       What is spent is love and two eyes wet with weeping.
      But these walk into a shop,
      and their whole lives pass suddenly in that moment,
      in that shop.

       Where did you go? "Nowhere."
      What did you have to eat? "Nothing much."

       Even if you don't know what you want,
      buy _something,_ to be part of the exchanging flow.

      Start a huge, foolish project,
      like Noah.

       It makes absolutely no difference
      what people think of you.
       ~ Rumi


    Pila Mulligan: it ended as they were arising/ it was very brief
    Paradise Tennant: maybe something with in you is ready to blossom to arise ;)
    Pila Mulligan: about enough time for me to say to myself, aha it is the PaB dream
    Pila Mulligan: I think it was more PaB related actually, Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: it did not seem informaitonal for me personally
    Eos Amaterasu: what was the PaB aspect: mutual presence?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, mutual awakening
    Pila Mulligan: head to head dozing some then awareness that awakens then arising
    Eos Amaterasu: blossoming awake
    Pila Mulligan: it was a very lucid image, communicative as such, but difficult to describe
    Pila Mulligan: the substance was in the image of sensing presence
    Pila Mulligan: and a resulting awakening and arising


    Pema Pera: And here is a shorter quote by Meister Eckhart, along similar lines:
    Pema Pera: What has no essence, does not exist. There is no creature that has essence, because the essence of all is
    in the presence of God. If God went out of the creatures even for a single moment, they would disappear into nothingness.
    Bolonath Crystal: that's indeed very much like advaita vedanta
    Pema Pera: he was accused of heresy, and there is a good chance he would have been killed by the inquisition
    Solobill Laville: Therer is another great Eckhart quote that I love
    Pema Pera: it may have been a good thing he died himself before others could kill him in the name of God :)
    Bolonath Crystal: i'm not surprised about that, as christianity is a dvaita philosophy in first instance
    Pema Pera: yes
    Solobill Laville: This eye that sees is the same as the eye that God sees through (paraphrase)
    Pema Pera: yes, a nice one, Solo!


    Storm Nordwind: That's an interesting statement Bolo. You seem to imply that one's own spiritual development is independent of others.
    Or do I misunderstand?
    Bolonath Crystal: 'others' is only a projection of the true self. in advaita vedanta thinking there are no 'others', because the true self of
    you and me is identical
    Bolonath Crystal: but the point is:
    Bolonath Crystal: if i ask, why somebody else does something, i give away the responsibility for the situation
    Bolonath Crystal: but it is my own karma that lets me create the universe as i do
    Storm Nordwind nods


    Fox Monacular: I used the PaB approach with my 14 year old cousin today - I took her to pearce her ears and told her to do 9 sec:)
    Paradise Tennant: lol :)
    Paradise Tennant: good idea

    Pila Mulligan: lots of parents hurt their children because they were hurt themselves
    Fox Monacular: you know, like in childhood when we realize that we could hurt ourselves and others, and you wonder why you don't do it
    Fox Monacular: I agree
    stevenaia Michinaga: or what would have you put yourself in harms way to protect your children
    Pila Mulligan: higher nature prevents doing harm, but unfortunately not all parents have it
    Fox Monacular: yes, that too, Steve
    Paradise Tennant: well being a parent is the hardest job on the planet
    Fox Monacular: you know I had these thoughts in a very abstract way, but it was kind of disturbing me, like, why am I thinking about such stuff...
    and then turned out this was all over the news... like I caught the vibe or something
    Paradise Tennant: none more difficult really or taxing
    Fox Monacular: yes, I'm starting to realize that:)
    Paradise Tennant: :) or more rewarding
    Fox Monacular: for sure:)
    Paradise Tennant: so it pulls all your strings .. even the ones with the occassional dark notes .. all in all though .. the music is sweet -
    the rhythm of life


    Yakuzza Lethecus: right now the theme sessions are only related to practice and buddist traditions so i would be curious if there is something different again :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: im sure something new will come around all the time :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Please feel free to suggest something to add to 'wish list' Yakuzza.
    sophia Placebo: hehe gaya
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and obviously sophia is the only islamic person around here i know about
    Yakuzza Lethecus: everyone else is just from the western cultures and the funny thing i also consider japan and korea as western in some way
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes sophia, I want to know about 'jihad' sometimes if you're ok whether in PaB or outside.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: maybe i have to think about my terms :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, Japan and Korea are heavily influenced by the West esp. US in some ways.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: really? I still see the culture as more influenced by the idea of wu wei than the west
    sophia Placebo: well gaya , i dont know , hmm part of it can be in bap part of it cant be here
    Gaya Ethaniel: You can talk about what you see as relevant here? I'm sure many of us are interested in Islam.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I was interested in the concept of 'struggle'. Normally struggling isn't recommended in Buddhist context yet somewhere it fits in
    terms of right action & selflessnes?
    sophia Placebo: thats major jihad , -struggling- with self : resisting temporary desires to get more perminant rwards -worldy or heavenly-
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, yesterday bolonath said that there were two main points of the type of yoga he practices :Niyama/Yama ...one deals with
    others and one with self. Is that similar I wonder, sophia?
    Eliza Madrigal: it is about behaviors mostly... in order to make progress
    sophia Placebo: gaya , did i get you right , is that what were you asking about : the self jihad ?
    sophia Placebo: Eliza maybe , i dont know about those yoga types , i know about rights : your self right on you ,others rights on you , that would
    include behavours and ethics and lots of law regulations
    SophiaSharon Larnia: about the idea of struggle, the view of overcoming these struggles
    sophia Placebo: hmm , dont we do it daily ?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: first what the idea of what the struggle is, i believe in this sense it means against the baser side of our natures, i dont mean anything else that has been tagged onto it
    sophia Placebo: sophia , true ,but our nature isnt static , it reactive to its invironment , my desire , the base one might be innocent but my method to satesfy it might go wrong , like children cuorosity



    Scathach: it just seemed to me to be assuming that any type of practice was automatically useless, but as you said, you have to start somewhere
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well I've wondered about it since then ... maybe we assumed that Pema was making a generic comment rather than talking from his personal experiences?
    Zon Quar: isnt it so..u have to note ur stuck..to get free from that stuckness
    Gaya Ethaniel: Of course, saying that doesn't necessarily exclude the fact that all practices if done sincerely have merits. Maybe it's something most of us assume at PaB?
    Scathach Rhiadra: and even if you are starting 'at the end' as PaB would have it, that is taking a pretty high-level view and working with it, not much different to starting at the beginning perhaps:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Zon, knowing that one's stuck is a good thing. I get stuck/unstuck ... some sense it's a learning process?
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... yes Scath you articulated what I was vaguely feeling ...
    Zon Quar: u have to start where u r
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, exactly
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think what Pema was trying to say is importance of being open to other possibility ... I think.
    Gaya Ethaniel: As in 'not gluing the shirt'
    Gaya Ethaniel: Like I asked for a reminder of the View to Stim ... you know what I mean?
    Gaya Ethaniel looks around for Pema ... :P
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, also practice is personal, it can not be generalised really
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... I wished that Pema had a chance to expand that comment with personal experience/example.

    Zon Quar: if u intellectulaize
    Zon Quar: u get easily stuck
    Zon Quar: in logic
    Zon Quar: and existence is a paradox
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. but therefor there is meditation for example i think ...

    Bertram Jacobus: yes. and paradoxies i like very much : they dissolve all stucking in my opinion or help at least with it
    Zon Quar: and make me smile..lol
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. another fine point :-)
    Zon Quar: sometimes we try to fit the world to human logic
    Zon Quar: but human logic is just one part of reality
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. but sometimes we also notice that that is not the only way to live and understand ... ;-)
    Scathach Rhiadra nods, some would say 'all the time' we try to do that:0


    Neela  Blaisdale: I'm taking a course in teaching mindfulness based stress reduction...
    Pila Mulligan: hmm
    Neela Blaisdale: and the teacher used the phrase... Being as Knowing...
    Neela Blaisdale: I was amazed...
    Neela Blaisdale: PaB in RL!
    Pila Mulligan: well, there certainly are a lot of opportunities for it
    Neela Blaisdale: then someone said... Knowing as Being:)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Neela Blaisdale: felt like they were channling PaB:)

    stevenaia Michinaga: I remember reading some of my initial visits here with pema, I a lack of understanding for a while
    genesis Zhangsun: something in between, had been a part of the whole thing for awhile but was a less frequent vistor before
    genesis Zhangsun: what do you mean lack of understanding steve?
    genesis Zhangsun: could u explain?
    stevenaia Michinaga: when I was being interviewed by adams I re-read my very first few logs where I did much listening.pema, stim and others would discuss aspects of what they were doing and I was literally clueless until something jsut "clicked"
    stevenaia Michinaga: usually some sort of linking metaphor, like.. "ok you mean like this" and things began to make more and more sense
    stevenaia Michinaga: partly the meditations (9 secs back then)
    stevenaia Michinaga: it was fresh and exciting
    stevenaia Michinaga: and continues to be so
    stevenaia Michinaga: but depending on which conversation someone walks in on... I can understand what you are saying, how did they come by this conversation with you,
    stevenaia Michinaga: it is good that they knew to make their comments to you
    genesis Zhangsun: well I guess it started because I was discussing the limits of the medium
    genesis Zhangsun: in providing group support etc
    genesis Zhangsun: this person pointed out the limits of the medium in really communicating this idea of starting at the end
    genesis Zhangsun: that there may be a lot of playing as being without any real being
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    genesis Zhangsun: limits in providing proper support is one challenge which we could find ways to overcome, the limit of the medium in communicating the central point is another thing entirely
    stevenaia Michinaga: I do enjoy the slow deliberate and thoughtful pase of the conversations here
    genesis Zhangsun: yes but I suppose that does depend on whether there are slow deliberate and thoughtful people present
    stevenaia Michinaga: ofcourse
    genesis Zhangsun: what really had me going about this conversation was the deeper assumptions contained within the critique
    genesis Zhangsun: I think this person may see enlightenment as project that is communicated in a direct and sudden manner
    genesis Zhangsun: my thinking on this is that there are flashes but the rest is much more like a sponge getting saturated

    genesis Zhangsun: sure. I think I see the role of the assembly in assimilating truth in this group as very different from the type of communities that this person is used to
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and traditional satsang usually involves assembling around a guru or teacher
    genesis Zhangsun: to sum it up simply, I see us as buddhas reminding one another that we really are buddhas, whereas I think this person sees the role of the community as working to support one another arrive at buddhahood
    genesis Zhangsun: it is funny that to see that starting at the end is possible you have to see that starting at the end is possible

    Pila Mulligan:I believe the etymology of the term is from sangha, meaning literally group or assembly, and sat meaning truth
    genesis Zhangsun: that makes sense :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)

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