Page last modified 23:10, 11 Jul 2010 by SophiaSharon
B. Wester Kiranov
Table of contents
No headersHoles in Reality: Interview with Wester Kiranov
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I met with Wester Kiranov in the Play as Being pavilion in Bieup on June 29th, 2010. Upon searching through the Play as Being logs, I found that her first session appears to be 2008.11.05 1300 - Fireworks. Wester rezzed into SL October 28, 2008 and has been attending groups at Kira Café and playing as Being since that time. Wester’s been a Guardian on call since December 2008 and was a scriber in 2009. I’m very happy and honored to interview Wester for this chronicle.
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Wester!
Wester Kiranov: Hi SophiaSharon
SophiaSharon Larnia: Thank you so much for meeting with me :)
Wester Kiranov: You're very welcome :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to say I'm really nervous lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: do you want to stay here or move elsewhere?
Wester Kiranov: I'm not quite sure. We can stay here a bit, then see what change of scenery does
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
SophiaSharon Larnia: I wrote some questions and can just ask you that way ok?
Wester Kiranov: that's fine
SophiaSharon Larnia: How did you find Play as Being? I found recently on the logs that you talked about that :) (the session I’m referring to is here: 2010.02.15 0700 - What's guardian's what's pab? )
Wester Kiranov: Well, I went to a kira summer school in 2001.
Wester Kiranov: I met Piet/Pema and Steven/Stim there, as they were basically the ones who had set it up (as I understand now).
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow 2001!
Wester Kiranov: This was basically the same kind of thing the kira café talks were about, integration of science and spirituality. The theme was "ways of knowing", and we all had had to write essays about that theme.
Wester Kiranov: And it was absolutely lovely, and I went in 2002 as well, but after that not much happened. There was an alumni group, but it was quite inactive.
Wester Kiranov: And then I think in the alumni group Piet wrote an e-mail saying he was on SL as well.
Wester Kiranov: So I took a look. First at the kira café, and then I heard about PaB as well, so I checked that one out.
SophiaSharon Larnia: You are from the Netherlands?
Wester Kiranov: Yes.
SophiaSharon Larnia: This may have nothing to do with PaB, but how did you find out about Kira?
Wester Kiranov: I was personal assistant to a professor for a few months. And she knew Pema, and she knew about these summer schools, and she thought I might be interested.
SophiaSharon Larnia: How interesting that you met Piet and Steven before coming to SL!
Wester Kiranov: If it wasn't for Piet and Steven I wouldn't be in SL at all.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, there are so few guardians who met them first in RL :)
Wester Kiranov: And I always forget who they are as well (hangs head in shame)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I can research later and tell you, the list is not long.
SophiaSharon Larnia: So you went to Kira first in SL?
Wester Kiranov: Yes, one of the talks, I don't really recollect which one.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I read in the logs that you went to WoK, Dutch evening and the dream workshop.
Wester Kiranov: I don't think I went to the dream workshop. Maybe once. I went to the TSK discussions though.
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh sorry :)
Wester Kiranov: But I like the idea of WoK a lot as I feel Steven really knows what it's at.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Yes! I wish I had been able to go myself.
SophiaSharon Larnia: What were your first impressions of the nine seconds? The explorations?
Wester Kiranov: (trying to remember)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Wester Kiranov: I think in the beginning I read them quite intellectually, you know, just with the brain :) And I could see they made sense, but you do really have to try them and see what they do.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes intellectually
SophiaSharon Larnia: I remember what you mean, I think.
Wester Kiranov: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: has that changed now?
Wester Kiranov: Yes, this exercise really creeps up on you :)
Wester Kiranov: I like the way how bit by bit it shoots tiny little holes in what you think is reality, so you can see through, or behind. Or just really see...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm trying to find the words what I mean, but if it's not intellectualization that what is it? A loose, observing focus without judgment, see what arises..
SophiaSharon Larnia: shooting tiny holes in what you think is reality, yes...
SophiaSharon Larnia: and taking that into RL?
Wester Kiranov: well, how could you not take it into RL?
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Wester Kiranov: Of course, you sometimes forget, but the 9-second is such a gentle reminder, just a nudge saying: look at what you are doing. Just really look.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I need reminders of that myself, and thank you for that.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Are there any other ways Play as Being has affected your life?
Wester Kiranov: It's hard to say. I am sure it affects me in subtle ways I'm not even aware of.
Wester Kiranov: And what PaB is doing is of course something I was trying to do myself in some way, so sometimes you don't know what the cause is if you find yourself opening up more easily.
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow yes, and find something that resonates with were you are going.
Wester Kiranov: One more thing I really like about PaB is that it's a real community, a sangha if you will.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes indeed
Wester Kiranov: I acttually find myself relaxing more in the PaB sessions myself, less worrying if this is how it's supposed to be and more enjoying how it is.
SophiaSharon Larnia: that was a point I found myself too.
SophiaSharon Larnia: What topics have intrigued you the most?
Wester Kiranov: I think in the PaB sessions, the topics are often secondary to the way they are discussed. Of the spin-off discussions, I did enjoy the TSK reading a lot.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I agree actually
SophiaSharon Larnia: I still haven’t understood TSK, I pick it up occasion :)
Wester Kiranov: I haven't understood it either and I'm on to my second reading now. But that book does something intriguing to my mind even when I don't understand it.
SophiaSharon Larnia: The exercises in it are what surprised me about the book.
Wester Kiranov: The exercises are the part I understand least, I think
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Wester Kiranov: I tried to visualize a giant body - and the other exercises I just read. No, at the end there are some I tried. Exercise 23 and 24. They seem more like "regular" meditation
SophiaSharon Larnia: I forget the progression, but the meditation of the body were the surprise, I learned a lot from being surprised.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Play as Being has changed a bit from when you first became a guardian, I saw on the wiki that your first session was in 11/08 :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Is there anything I didn't ask you that you'd like to add??
Wester Kiranov: It's true, it's been quite a while now.
Wester Kiranov: But I felt it grew on me, and it's still growing
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
Wester Kiranov: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: what I'll do with this text is send it to you and you can look it over ok?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Ha maybe I'm not very good at this interview thing lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: but I'm really grateful you sat here with me
Wester Kiranov: I think you're a fine interviewer.
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks again Wester.
Wester Kiranov: Thank you for a nice interview.
Wester Kiranov: Hi SophiaSharon
SophiaSharon Larnia: Thank you so much for meeting with me :)
Wester Kiranov: You're very welcome :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to say I'm really nervous lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: do you want to stay here or move elsewhere?
Wester Kiranov: I'm not quite sure. We can stay here a bit, then see what change of scenery does
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
SophiaSharon Larnia: I wrote some questions and can just ask you that way ok?
Wester Kiranov: that's fine
SophiaSharon Larnia: How did you find Play as Being? I found recently on the logs that you talked about that :) (the session I’m referring to is here: 2010.02.15 0700 - What's guardian's what's pab? )
Wester Kiranov: Well, I went to a kira summer school in 2001.
Wester Kiranov: I met Piet/Pema and Steven/Stim there, as they were basically the ones who had set it up (as I understand now).
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow 2001!
Wester Kiranov: This was basically the same kind of thing the kira café talks were about, integration of science and spirituality. The theme was "ways of knowing", and we all had had to write essays about that theme.
Wester Kiranov: And it was absolutely lovely, and I went in 2002 as well, but after that not much happened. There was an alumni group, but it was quite inactive.
Wester Kiranov: And then I think in the alumni group Piet wrote an e-mail saying he was on SL as well.
Wester Kiranov: So I took a look. First at the kira café, and then I heard about PaB as well, so I checked that one out.
SophiaSharon Larnia: You are from the Netherlands?
Wester Kiranov: Yes.
SophiaSharon Larnia: This may have nothing to do with PaB, but how did you find out about Kira?
Wester Kiranov: I was personal assistant to a professor for a few months. And she knew Pema, and she knew about these summer schools, and she thought I might be interested.
SophiaSharon Larnia: How interesting that you met Piet and Steven before coming to SL!
Wester Kiranov: If it wasn't for Piet and Steven I wouldn't be in SL at all.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, there are so few guardians who met them first in RL :)
Wester Kiranov: And I always forget who they are as well (hangs head in shame)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I can research later and tell you, the list is not long.
SophiaSharon Larnia: So you went to Kira first in SL?
Wester Kiranov: Yes, one of the talks, I don't really recollect which one.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I read in the logs that you went to WoK, Dutch evening and the dream workshop.
Wester Kiranov: I don't think I went to the dream workshop. Maybe once. I went to the TSK discussions though.
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh sorry :)
Wester Kiranov: But I like the idea of WoK a lot as I feel Steven really knows what it's at.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Yes! I wish I had been able to go myself.
SophiaSharon Larnia: What were your first impressions of the nine seconds? The explorations?
Wester Kiranov: (trying to remember)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Wester Kiranov: I think in the beginning I read them quite intellectually, you know, just with the brain :) And I could see they made sense, but you do really have to try them and see what they do.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes intellectually
SophiaSharon Larnia: I remember what you mean, I think.
Wester Kiranov: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: has that changed now?
Wester Kiranov: Yes, this exercise really creeps up on you :)
Wester Kiranov: I like the way how bit by bit it shoots tiny little holes in what you think is reality, so you can see through, or behind. Or just really see...
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm trying to find the words what I mean, but if it's not intellectualization that what is it? A loose, observing focus without judgment, see what arises..
SophiaSharon Larnia: shooting tiny holes in what you think is reality, yes...
SophiaSharon Larnia: and taking that into RL?
Wester Kiranov: well, how could you not take it into RL?
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Wester Kiranov: Of course, you sometimes forget, but the 9-second is such a gentle reminder, just a nudge saying: look at what you are doing. Just really look.
SophiaSharon Larnia: I need reminders of that myself, and thank you for that.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Are there any other ways Play as Being has affected your life?
Wester Kiranov: It's hard to say. I am sure it affects me in subtle ways I'm not even aware of.
Wester Kiranov: And what PaB is doing is of course something I was trying to do myself in some way, so sometimes you don't know what the cause is if you find yourself opening up more easily.
SophiaSharon Larnia: wow yes, and find something that resonates with were you are going.
Wester Kiranov: One more thing I really like about PaB is that it's a real community, a sangha if you will.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes indeed
Wester Kiranov: I acttually find myself relaxing more in the PaB sessions myself, less worrying if this is how it's supposed to be and more enjoying how it is.
SophiaSharon Larnia: that was a point I found myself too.
SophiaSharon Larnia: What topics have intrigued you the most?
Wester Kiranov: I think in the PaB sessions, the topics are often secondary to the way they are discussed. Of the spin-off discussions, I did enjoy the TSK reading a lot.
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes I agree actually
SophiaSharon Larnia: I still haven’t understood TSK, I pick it up occasion :)
Wester Kiranov: I haven't understood it either and I'm on to my second reading now. But that book does something intriguing to my mind even when I don't understand it.
SophiaSharon Larnia: The exercises in it are what surprised me about the book.
Wester Kiranov: The exercises are the part I understand least, I think
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Wester Kiranov: I tried to visualize a giant body - and the other exercises I just read. No, at the end there are some I tried. Exercise 23 and 24. They seem more like "regular" meditation
SophiaSharon Larnia: I forget the progression, but the meditation of the body were the surprise, I learned a lot from being surprised.
SophiaSharon Larnia: Play as Being has changed a bit from when you first became a guardian, I saw on the wiki that your first session was in 11/08 :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Is there anything I didn't ask you that you'd like to add??
Wester Kiranov: It's true, it's been quite a while now.
Wester Kiranov: But I felt it grew on me, and it's still growing
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
Wester Kiranov: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: what I'll do with this text is send it to you and you can look it over ok?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Ha maybe I'm not very good at this interview thing lol
SophiaSharon Larnia: but I'm really grateful you sat here with me
Wester Kiranov: I think you're a fine interviewer.
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks again Wester.
Wester Kiranov: Thank you for a nice interview.
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