2017.04.03 13:00 - "Do mind the swimming poo"

 

The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce Mowbray. The comments are by Bruce Mowbray.

 

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Raffi!

Raffila Millgrove: Hi Aph.

Aphrodite Macbain: I think Aggers and Mick are going to lead this session

Raffila Millgrove: oh nice. i see you have this lovely blossom in your hair. very pretty.

Raffila Millgrove: matching earrings too. lovely. so spring.

Aphrodite Macbain: thanks! It's Sakkura days - the days when the Japanese celebrate cherry blossoms

Agatha Macbeth: Evening all

Aphrodite Macbain: I also sprinkled cherry blossoms in the pool

Tura Brezoianu: nice

Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Aggers, Tura

Raffila Millgrove: Hi Agatha.. Hi Tura.

Tura Brezoianu: hi everyone

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: Mick should be here shortly

Aphrodite Macbain: KK

Agatha Macbeth: Liz said she'll be delayed by RL

Aphrodite Macbain: Does anyone remember when our birthday party is? I wasn’t at the last Guardian meeting

Agatha Macbeth: Good question

Aphrodite Macbain: and I am hearing April 15 and April `16

Aphrodite Macbain: but that's Easter weekend

Agatha Macbeth: Yes I thought something like that

Agatha Macbeth: I know it's later than usual

Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe Easter weekend is fine for people

Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce

Agatha Macbeth: Brucie :)

Aphrodite Macbain: we are discussing the party dates

Aphrodite Macbain: I am getting conflicting info

Agatha Macbeth: What you just said sounds right

Tura Brezoianu: Last I heard was April 15, but that was at a Guardian meeting in February.

Agatha Macbeth: Will check

Raffila Millgrove: it’s on Easter?

Aphrodite Macbain: what? April 15, April 16? or not Easter weekend?

Tura Brezoianu: It is (which means I can't be there)

Aphrodite Macbain: That's why I wonder whether we should schedule it for this weekend

Agatha Macbeth: Aww

Agatha Macbeth: If everybody's cool with next weekend that would work too

Raffila Millgrove: I can't do Easter either. i got the whole family here.

Aphrodite Macbain: Is that too soon?

Aphrodite Macbain: I agree Raffi

Agatha Macbeth: A week? Shouldn't be

Raffila Millgrove: I thought it was the 3rd weekend.

Aphrodite Macbain: so it's either this weekend or the weekend of the 22-23

Tura Brezoianu: btw, what's the date of the actual birthday?

Aphrodite Macbain: the 3rd weekend is Easter weekend

Agatha Macbeth: 1st

Aphrodite Macbain: April 1 Tura!

Agatha Macbeth: So we missed that already :p

Tura Brezoianu: Really?!

Aphrodite Macbain: Eliza couldn't come that weekend

Agatha Macbeth: We are the April fools

Aphrodite Macbain: indeed!

Aphrodite Macbain: Trouble was, no one was in charge of the event

Agatha Macbeth: Which event?

Aphrodite Macbain: ?? the birthday party

Agatha Macbeth: We need someone in charge of it?

Aphrodite Macbain: the 9th anniversary

Aphrodite Macbain: well it seems it has been left rather vague

Agatha Macbeth: AFK door

Bruce Mowbray: also, a reminder to pay stevenia $46.

Aphrodite Macbain: I'll send out an email to everyone and ask what people want

Bruce Mowbray: sounds good, Aph.

Aphrodite Macbain: yes- he will send out a notice Bruce

Aphrodite Macbain: she

Aphrodite Macbain: Looks like it will have to be the 22-or 23 rd

Bruce Mowbray:  She already sent me a notice, and I’ve already paid... the very first Pabber to do so, she said.

Aphrodite Macbain: Bravo Bruce

Aphrodite Macbain: claps

Bruce Mowbray: ha ha

Aphrodite Macbain: I will mail a cheque for $50 can.

Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce looks restless

Bruce Mowbray: I'm trying to sit on the edge, but it doesn't work anymore.

Aphrodite Macbain: Do you like the cherry tree I planted?

Bruce Mowbray: Lovely!

Aphrodite Macbain: sit on the cushion and it will put you on the edge

Agatha Macbeth: Back

Aphrodite Macbain: like that Bruce

Raffila Millgrove: I've suddenly got to go.... have unexpected visitor. Please excuse me. xoxo

Aphrodite Macbain: Poolsit

Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Raffi.

Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Raffi

Agatha Macbeth: Not the police hopefully :p

Aphrodite Macbain: it's called Poolsit Bruce

Agatha Macbeth: Well I wonder where Mick is?

Aphrodite Macbain: yayy

Aphrodite Macbain: Yes

Aphrodite Macbain: has anyone prepared anything for today?

Bruce Mowbray: just a few comments - not a report.

Agatha Macbeth: Bruce maybe?

Agatha Macbeth: Yay

Aphrodite Macbain: great Bruce

Aphrodite Macbain: listens

Agatha Macbeth: Bruce almighty

Bruce Mowbray: This helps us understand the power of subliminal emotional influences...

Bruce Mowbray: like music in the background of some setting.

Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

Bruce Mowbray: or rooms of different colors.

Aphrodite Macbain: mood music

Bruce Mowbray: Since the affect comes first...

Bruce Mowbray: and since higher brain activity is preceded affect --- (emotion, sort of).

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, like mood music.

Bruce Mowbray: That would tend to influence all conscious thoughts that come later.

Bruce Mowbray: They say that holding rooms in jails and prisons are sometimes painted pink....

Bruce Mowbray: and the prisoners calm down more and are not aggressive in such rooms.

Agatha Macbeth: 0.0

Aphrodite Macbain: what mood is pink?

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: That's about all I wanted to say.

Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Bruce

Bruce Mowbray: Well, pink is apparently a different mood from bright red.... or pale blue. . . It sets up an affective predisposition to whatever comes afterward.

Aphrodite Macbain: How can we paint ourselves or orchestrate ourselves to create this effect/affect? Or can we even try?

Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes, I think we can, Aph.

Aphrodite Macbain: How?

Bruce Mowbray: Well, first self-reflect.

Bruce Mowbray: find out where you are in terms of affect.

Bruce Mowbray: This, of course would be a conscious process.

Aphrodite Macbain: prepare ourselves by examining our feelings and changing them?

Bruce Mowbray: well monitor for subtle changes....

Bruce Mowbray: meditation is especially conducive to that.

Bruce Mowbray: then modify the affect. . .

Bruce Mowbray: It probably takes some practice.

Bruce Mowbray: Eliza said she's planning to try out a sensory deprivation tank....

Bruce Mowbray: that would also be quite revelatory, I'd think.

Aphrodite Macbain: If we continue your analogy, we would look at the colour of our "room" and notice it is too red or too drab and then set about changing that to a pleasant colour? Do we have that ability?

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I feel that I have that ability...

Aphrodite Macbain notices that Aggers is a natural red

Agatha Macbeth: Indeed

Bruce Mowbray: but if I'm depressed, then that affect will tend to color all my subsequent thoughts.

Aphrodite Macbain: nods

Bruce Mowbray: So, best to get a head start on it.

Bruce Mowbray: I think that's the power of affirmations.

Aphrodite Macbain: but do you think you could change that?

Bruce Mowbray: If I were, clinically depressed, then no....

Aphrodite Macbain: Exercise works for me :-)

Bruce Mowbray: Exercise is a wonderful way to modify moods.

Aphrodite Macbain: What do you think Tura> Aggers?

Agatha Macbeth: Of?

Aphrodite Macbain: what we are talking about...

Agatha Macbeth: Which part?

Aphrodite Macbain: any

Bruce Mowbray: monitoring and modifying one's mood.

Agatha Macbeth: Know the flow as you go

Bruce Mowbray: Getting a head-start on the affect stuff.

Tura Brezoianu: I have been curious about flotation tanks, though I've never tried one

Bruce Mowbray: Have you seen the movie, "Altered States"?

Aphrodite Macbain: ah- do you think they would change your mood?

Tura Brezoianu: I have! Also read John C. Lilly, that the film's based on

Aphrodite Macbain: Actually the idea of flotation tanks that strip away all sensation, terrifies me

Bruce Mowbray: I think they would help one get rid of distractions -- and therefore concentrate on self-reflection better.

Tura Brezoianu: But he was more about the LSD :)

Aphrodite Macbain: yes- focusing on mind pyrotechnics

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that hallucination stuff scares me.

Tura Brezoianu: sensory deprivation is also used as a form of torture. I guess it's all about the setting and framing

Bruce Mowbray: but you wouldn’t have to do that.

Aphrodite Macbain: Is it Tura?

Aphrodite Macbain: It's like being in confinement

Bruce Mowbray: I think the claustrophobic tank would get to me.

Aphrodite Macbain: I would guess

Tura Brezoianu: Solitary confinement is a punishment, but monks voluntarily seek it out

Aphrodite Macbain: I suppose they know that they are in control so it's not so scary

Bruce Mowbray: Having my head MRI would have done the same, except that I wore a blindfold and earplugs.

Aphrodite Macbain: nods

Aphrodite Macbain: me too

Aphrodite Macbain: they played Mozart for me :-)

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I asked for classical music, too, Aph.

Bruce Mowbray: (took out my earplugs for that)

Aphrodite Macbain: they were trying to cover up the thunks and clunks of MRI noise....didn't work

Bruce Mowbray: The radiologist told me that about half of his patients could not stand the full test and asked to come out.

Bruce Mowbray: YES, VERY LOUD!!

Aphrodite Macbain: It helps if you're not claustrophobic

Bruce Mowbray: but most people want out because of the claustrophobia.

Bruce Mowbray: and I AM claustrophobic!

Aphrodite Macbain: Has anyone read the section we are going to discuss on Thursday?

Bruce Mowbray: I have, yes.

Bruce Mowbray: Solms.

Aphrodite Macbain: Interesting?

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I thought so.

Tura Brezoianu: yes

Aphrodite Macbain: what does Solms have to say?

Bruce Mowbray: He talks about the affect coming before any conscious thought...

Bruce Mowbray: that all affect begins in the brain stem.

Bruce Mowbray: and therefore, any cortical stuff (conscious) could be influenced by the affect -- which is why I talked earlier about the colors of rooms, and background music -- setting the affect.... prior to conscious thought....

Aphrodite Macbain: That's interesting...really interesting. I always thought that thought created affect...ie if I think certain thoughts I get sad or angry or happy.

Aphrodite Macbain: That has always been my experience anyway.

Aphrodite Macbain: hmm

Bruce Mowbray: Your experience was conscious reflection.

Aphrodite Macbain: my lived experience says the opposite

Bruce Mowbray: so, by definition conscious reflection comes after the initial affect.

Bruce Mowbray: which was unconscious

Aphrodite Macbain: what would prompt the brainstem to produce such feelings?

Bruce Mowbray: Have you read Solms yet?

Aphrodite Macbain: I don’t know

Aphrodite Macbain: I don’t think so

Bruce Mowbray: kk.

Aphrodite Macbain: I will :-)

Bruce Mowbray: The brainstem is trying to establish homeostasis with sensory input....

Tura Brezoianu: I just downloaded his paper that Maxine refers to, "The Conscious Id". Must read it later

Bruce Mowbray: so the color of a room, for example, would cause changes in the brainstem...

Bruce Mowbray: which would later cause changes in conscious thought.

Bruce Mowbray: Sounds good, Tura.

Aphrodite Macbain: I don’t remember that Tura

Agatha Macbeth: What's a good colour then?

Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

Aphrodite Macbain: soft green :-)

Bruce Mowbray: What's a "good" mood?

Agatha Macbeth: Euch

Aphrodite Macbain: They paint hospitals green for that reason

Bruce Mowbray: drained swimming poo green...

Bruce Mowbray: pool* Ha ha.

Aphrodite Macbain: lol

Bruce Mowbray: Sorry.

Agatha Macbeth: Swimming poo?

Aphrodite Macbain: that's turquoise :)

Bruce Mowbray: YUCK!

Aphrodite Macbain: rofl

Agatha Macbeth dies from laughing....

Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....

Aphrodite Macbain: don’t die

Bruce Mowbray: I wish this seat allowed me to move.

Aphrodite Macbain: It's only poo

Aphrodite Macbain: you are using your AO Bruce

Agatha Macbeth: It's the animations in the cushion

Agatha Macbeth: They have a higher priority than the gesture

Tura Brezoianu: Douglas Adams has a word for the sort of green that is supposed to make you relaxed in hospital, anxious in a police station, and industrious in a school.

Agatha Macbeth: 42

Agatha Macbeth: That looks most uncomfortable Brucie

Aphrodite Macbain: I love 42

Bruce Mowbray: I can move now.

Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....

Agatha Macbeth: Erk

Agatha Macbeth: Semi-worked

Agatha Macbeth: Do mind the swimming poo

Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!

Aphrodite Macbain: :-) those are cherry blossoms

Agatha Macbeth: Swimming sakura is way better

Agatha Macbeth: Cherry bosoms

Aphrodite Macbain: yes

Agatha Macbeth: You lost your pants alpha Aphie

Aphrodite Macbain: I threw them there and planted that tree

Aphrodite Macbain: yikes

Agatha Macbeth: That's what I hate about mesh

Agatha Macbeth: If only there was some way to integrate the alpha with the stuff you're wearing it would be perfect

Aphrodite Macbain: nods energetically

Agatha Macbeth: You see poor noobs walking around with half a body

Aphrodite Macbain: I think Mick had that problem for a while

Agatha Macbeth: Yes!

Aphrodite Macbain: Have to remember to add

Agatha Macbeth: And he's hardly a noob, even if he looks like one

Aphrodite Macbain: mot wear

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: :-) let's not speak ill of the absent :-)

Bruce Mowbray: I'll bet his brain stem is still intact.

Agatha Macbeth: 3388 days good heavens

Aphrodite Macbain: ?

Agatha Macbeth: Mick's age

Aphrodite Macbain: how do you know?

Bruce Mowbray: Actually, it is OLDER than PaB.

Agatha Macbeth: Er

Agatha Macbeth: It's in his profile

Aphrodite Macbain: Ah right

Aphrodite Macbain: I thought he was here and I hadn't seen him

Aphrodite Macbain: I hate that

Agatha Macbeth: Obviously he wanted to avoid the swimming poo

Aphrodite Macbain: he's ancient!

Agatha Macbeth: Yes it probably is

Aphrodite Macbain: I have to go dear amigos

Agatha Macbeth: Bye Aphie

Aphrodite Macbain: bye all

Agatha Macbeth: Love to the mooses

Aphrodite Macbain: take care of that room

Bruce Mowbray: kk, Bye for now.

Aphrodite Macbain: byee

Agatha Macbeth: The plural of moose is mooses I think

Agatha Macbeth: Not meece or something

Tura Brezoianu: BTW, if anyone wants to look up the Solms paper, I found it on Karl Friston's web site, who comes up in the next section. http://www.fil.ion.ucl.ac.uk/~karl/The%20Conscious%20Id.pdf

Tura Brezoianu: Just wanted to get that in while the recording's going.

Agatha Macbeth: TY

Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Tura.

Agatha Macbeth: Woot

Agatha Macbeth: Ah, Cape Town

Agatha Macbeth: Wonder if Sun knows him

Tura Brezoianu: Sun?

Agatha Macbeth: Sunshine, an old PaBber

Agatha Macbeth: She's in SA

Agatha Macbeth: But I think she's in Zululand, not the cape

Agatha Macbeth: Ah yes, this is good stuff

Tura Brezoianu: I wonder why consciousness is present in some parts of the brain and not others. Even if the cortex doesn't have a monopoly, as far as we can tell there's none in the cerebellum.

Agatha Macbeth: Yes, that's good

Agatha Macbeth: I still think 90 per cent of it is guesswork

Agatha Macbeth: I don't see how they can say all for certain

Agatha Macbeth: But still interesting

Agatha Macbeth: Oh where did everyone go?

Agatha Macbeth: That what I get for reading stuff

Tura Brezoianu: All gone, one by one

Agatha Macbeth: Ah well, never mind

Agatha Macbeth: Bruce grabbed the log didn't he?

Agatha Macbeth: Think he did anyway

Tura Brezoianu: He claimed it early on, but the lotus flower still says it's recording

Agatha Macbeth: Save me doing it

Agatha Macbeth: Yes it will until we stop it or we leave

Tura Brezoianu: Does it automatically stop when everyone's gone?

Agatha Macbeth: Yes

Agatha Macbeth: Or can be stopped manually

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: But it doesn't matter what time you take it, you still get the whole recording

Agatha Macbeth: Even if you weren't here :p

Agatha Macbeth: Clever really

Agatha Macbeth: Wol did a good job

Agatha Macbeth: And Fael, she helped too

Agatha Macbeth: So many old friends we don't see now

Agatha Macbeth: Right...I really must finished putting stuff in the kitchen

Tura Brezoianu: Things come together for a while, then dissolve.

Agatha Macbeth: Not going to do itself

Tura Brezoianu: See you, Ag.

Agatha Macbeth: Yeh

Agatha Macbeth: TC Tura

Agatha Macbeth: Have fun