01-03 - September 1, 2, 3

Seasons change: flowing from story to awakening and on and on:

 http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...-_Story_or_not

 doug Sosa: It was darker this mornig, season and fog. Made being awake for SL slightly harder. I wonder what waking up and going in to the 9 sec have in common?

Riddle Sideways: is that 2 separate questions:)

Riddle Sideways: waking up has several meanings

doug Sosa: i think it is one.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and several stages.

Corvuscorva Nightfire sips her coffee.

doug Sosa: well, i meant it without metaphor.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: woosh..I can't think that waking up means anyting at all without metaphor?

doug Sosa: the stages get intersting, how like the transition into and out of the 9 sec.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinks aobut transition and three breaths...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: can you feel a moment of transition?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's so very fast, that 9 seconds.
doug Sosa: isn't just going from sleep to awake fairy non-metaphorical?
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks...I guess I think of it as story altogether.
doug Sosa: I try to slow it down and catch the process.
doug Sosa: the experience.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: when you think about sleep/dream...that's story...and wake...is story...I guess there are brain states
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that are not metaphor.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but isn't the rest just stories?
Riddle Sideways: stories we tell ourselves
doug Sosa: well, brain states is a story. i am thinking of the raw experience of just coming awake. It isn't brain states because I experience it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks about this...
doug Sosa: and it isn't metaphoical because i am not seeing it as like something else.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but isn't that experience a story you tell yourself about what is going on? I mean...very little actually occurs to experience.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: once we name it, put a history on it..it becomes a story?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sorry..I'm thinking alot about story right now.
Riddle Sideways: Doug, are you talking about sleep not really connected to input senses, then whoosh a flood of inputs as morning breaks
Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah.
doug Sosa: yes. though at times it is more a trickle :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs..yeah...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sips coffee and considers that.
Riddle Sideways: often in a daydream or concentration when the 15 minute gong goes off and take a 9-sec breath ?
doug Sosa: there is a way in which the story perspective transcends everything, cause the experience gets organized by us. i like that perspective but don't want to totalize it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's finding the place where there isn't story that's the trick.
doug Sosa: our vocab here seems not up to the task.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nodsnods to that.
Riddle Sideways: as usual
doug Sosa: so is there a transition between normal and 9sec that we can explore?
--BELL--
Corvuscorva Nightfire droops. I keep finding more "normal" under each thing I drop.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: more "story"
Riddle Sideways: layers of the onion?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods, slowly. I think so.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Not the magical all nothing.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: just...more little somethings.
Riddle Sideways: ha, it isturtles allthe way down

Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs at the image.

Revisting the retreat and widening the circle:

Riddle Sideways: again Corvi, I am sorry I did not get to meet you in RL

Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..me too.

Riddle Sideways: please report what I missed atthe retreat

Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm.

Riddle Sideways: no preasure...

Riddle Sideways: but report all... NOW

Riddle Sideways: :)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs.I thought all morning what to say..and I still don't know!

Corvuscorva Nightfire: The place is beautiful.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: it was great to meet each person and they were exactly as I imagined, but more themselves.

doug Sosa: On a ridge in redwood trees.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: we sat quietly alot, and then had very long PaB sessions.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: many of us grew fond of the trees.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Redwood forests are very quiet, as someone pointed out to me.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I didn't realize until that moment that I missed the cicadas.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: of my own forests.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Blue Jays there are as big as crows here.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Crows are huge.

doug Sosa: bigness wins when the struggle is for human garbage.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs. nods.

Riddle Sideways: and yet....

Corvuscorva Nightfire: the place was good for what we were doing.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Someone once told me that he practiced compassion by thinking about loving a specific person..then spreading that feeling.

doug Sosa: good food right there, no distractions (excpt heat last two days).

Riddle Sideways: yes, Redwoods MAKE you contemplative

Corvuscorva Nightfire: and that place was like that, too.

doug Sosa: More about speakig to one..

Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles..yeah..there were many comments about the slow life of the redwood.

doug Sosa: "spreeading that feeling? Ah, beyond that person?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods...yes..taking the example of loving someone you find easy to love.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and then imagining it a little wider.
Riddle Sideways: how to widen that
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods..it's not simple.
Riddle Sideways: taking your inner glow and shining it on others
Corvuscorva Nightfire: smiles..yeah...exactly.
Riddle Sideways: bringing Redwood experiences back to a city
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes yes!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's one thing I was thinking about..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: taking the lightness, playfulness, contemplativeness and love of a retreat
Corvuscorva Nightfire: to the rest of my life.
Riddle Sideways: every day rush rush people won't listen to you slowly tell of Redwoods
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Corvuscorva Nightfire: no
Riddle Sideways: but they will hear your smile

Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.

Expansive presence: Genesis talks retreat

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...d_more_retreat

Mickorod Renard: Gen,,how was the retreat?
Mickorod Renard: u enjoy?
genesis Zhangsun: really wonderful, oh yes I enjoyed it quite a bit
Mickorod Renard: fantastic
Mickorod Renard: how many have you been on now?
genesis Zhangsun: well I suppose this is the first official retreat, we had a meeting in Princeton last year but it was only a couple of days
Mickorod Renard: ok great
Mickorod Renard: and was it a shock to see people in the flesh?
Mickorod Renard: like avi's in the flesh
genesis Zhangsun: surprisingly not surprising :)
Mickorod Renard: nice
genesis Zhangsun: somehow the av and the person seem to blend together quite seamlessly
genesis Zhangsun: at least for me
Mickorod Renard: I have heard that said before
SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been so curious as to what kind of exercises were explored, and haven't heard much about them :)
Mickorod Renard: me too
arabella Ella: me too
genesis Zhangsun: I think this week guardians who attended the retreat will be sharing their experiences during their sessions
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
genesis Zhangsun: many will also be writing short reports
genesis Zhangsun: including myself
Mickorod Renard: stragely we asked Stim yesterday but he seemed quiet
arabella Ella: were you a large group gen?
arabella Ella: and did it all live up to your expectations?
arabella Ella: or surpass them?
genesis Zhangsun: the group was 12 in total including me, Pema, and Stim
Mickorod Renard: thats a nice number
arabella Ella: fantastic
genesis Zhangsun: I was careful in a way not to have too many expetactions as we often know they can be distracting :)
arabella Ella nods
Mickorod Renard: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
genesis Zhangsun: so it neither met them nor surpassed them but I know what you mean by what you are asking
genesis Zhangsun: I was really going with the flow, I guess that is something easier to do in a retreat context
arabella Ella: yes of course
genesis Zhangsun: letting one thing flow into the next
Mickorod Renard: do you think it may be too formal?
arabella Ella: was Storm there too?
genesis Zhangsun: yes he was there too
arabella Ella: :)
genesis Zhangsun: what a presence Storm has
arabella Ella: no doubt
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps that is something I would say I wasn't entirely prepared for
genesis Zhangsun: he seemed larger than life :)
arabella Ella: he has quite a presence here too
Mickorod Renard: wow
arabella Ella: and you dont only mean physical do you?
Mickorod Renard: I guess he is still in homymoon mode to some extent too
Mickorod Renard: honeymoon*
genesis Zhangsun: oh yes he was in a fantastic mood, completely in love
Mickorod Renard: wow
genesis Zhangsun: but I would have to say I guess it was interesting to note how expansive the presence of all of the guardians felt in RL
genesis Zhangsun: a very special group of people
arabella Ella: yes
genesis Zhangsun: both those who were able to make it and those who could not
Mickorod Renard: yes
arabella Ella: did you discuss the possibility of a next retreat?
genesis Zhangsun: a special community in general

       

Seeing without seeing

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...-_Weird_Wu-Wei

delene Dawner: I saw an article I wanted to share - reminded me of wu wei.
Adelene Dawner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight
Eliza Madrigal looks...
Pema Pera: yes, blindsight is a fascinating phenomenon
Eliza Madrigal nods
Pema Pera: how does it remind you of wu-wei?
Adelene Dawner: Well, from the description (and that's not the only place I saw it described, but I lost the other article in a FF crash) it sounds like using blindsight is an exercise in wu wei - since you don't *know* what you're seeeing, consciously, and you have to trust... 'instinct' isn't accurate there, really, but something other than conscious thought.
Eliza Madrigal: AHhhh, neat idea!
Pema Pera: yes, that is interesting
Eliza Madrigal: like something activated from seemingly 'nowhere'?
Pema Pera: we do know more than we know we know :)
Eliza Madrigal: or knowhere..hehe
Pema Pera: :)
--BELL--
Pema Pera: now do we have the knowherewithall to talk about it . . . .
Eliza Madrigal: :) this seems distinctive... you said before that talking about experiences in excercizes was a new approach...can see that
Eliza Madrigal: talking out of that blindspot... like when you think you don't understand something at all, then hear yourself explain it
Eliza Madrigal: an odd and wonderful thing
Pema Pera: yes, that is a key part of research too
Pema Pera: joint research, two or more individuals groping in the dark, sharing what they think they've seen so far
Pema Pera: and then trying to form hypotheses, no matter how flaky or confused at first
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I like that... not discouting what seems off-the-wall
Eliza Madrigal: *discounting
Pema Pera: but to really give the glimmers of possible new insight a chance, everybody in the group has to be receptive
Pema Pera: ready to wait, open up, not waltz over new ideas
Eliza Madrigal: Some may seem non-receptive but not be and visa versa? different activation times?
Pema Pera: yes, and we all learn together
Eliza Madrigal nods
Pema Pera: it's a rather fine balance
Pema Pera: if everybody is too careful, it can become stifling and sleepy, lacking freshness
Pema Pera: but if too many people jump up with new input too often, new tentative ideas get lost in the fray
Pema Pera: wu-wei is the perfect balance between the two

Improvising beyond concepts:

Pema Pera: yes, we tend to have an idea of what wu-wei is, and that idea helps us to find more of it
Pema Pera: and that then helps us to refine our idea in turn
Pema Pera: but then we stick to that new idea
--BELL--
Pema Pera: and we have to learn to let that go in order to see/feel/experience more exquisitely what wu-wei can be . . . .
Eliza Madrigal: :) MM, yes, the idea of eating mindfully certainly is a good thing in itself... not about getting rid of that
Eliza Madrigal: and doing something 'else' that is 'better'?
Pema Pera: each situation asks for a unique response, unique to that situation . . . .
Pema Pera: and the more we learn to see, the more we intuitively respond in the proper way
Pema Pera: improvising on the spot
Eliza Madrigal: immediacy
Pema Pera: yes, no hesitation
Eliza Madrigal: Well really learning to live that way yes, would be radical :)
Pema Pera: wu-wei showed itself in two quite different ways, during the retreat: one is that by and large we all gaave each other room to talk;
Pema Pera: another was that whenever someone used that room to convey something really delicate, often that person felt a bit shy, unsure,
Pema Pera: and before long someone would then add a quietly encouraging response
Pema Pera: typically quite tender
Pema Pera: that was really marvelous to see and experience
Eliza Madrigal smiles yes it sounds that way
Pema Pera: and of course, we often do that here in SL too
Adelene Dawner: :)
Pema Pera: that's probably how we learned to do that as a group
Eliza Madrigal: that's an aspect of 'permission' you mentioned coming up there
Eliza Madrigal: I'm surprised a little, that you were surprised Pema... and so very glad it was that way for you all
Pema Pera: I was surprised at how well it worked, and how constantly
Pema Pera: it's one thing to see that happen between two old friends . . . or perhaps even three or four when they *really* know each other -- but twelve? That was the surprise
Eliza Madrigal nods, yes makes sense

Two aspects...

Pema Pera: So the two aspects here: giving room and responding, are complementary
Pema Pera: knowing when to pause, and knowing when to step in, and how
Pema Pera: The first part, no doubt, we have learned to do better with the 9-sec break, and the 90-second pauses here.
Pema Pera: do you have a suggestion as to how we have been learning the second part here, the responding?
Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure that I'm not the best person to suggest when to step in... constantly doubt myself as to whether I'm giving someone too much space/not enough
Eliza Madrigal: is certainly a skill :)
Eliza Madrigal: But talking about that is good!
Eliza Madrigal: Saying it openly... having permission, knowing there is benefit of the doubt, etc
Eliza Madrigal: We learn to trust each others' basic intentions to sharing
Eliza Madrigal: so even when clumsy, it is in love, in a way
Pema Pera: yes

       

Tai Chi and PaB

(see chat log for a more detailed treatment of this topic)

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...9%3a00_-_Tarry

Pila Mulligan: Doug, I don't do the 9 sec practice the usual PaB way
doug Sosa: and.. :) How?
Pila Mulligan: i had a similar pre-existing practice that I now see in relation to PaB
stevenaia Michinaga: back
Pila Mulligan: you may appreciate it in relation to tai chi
Pila Mulligan: wb Steve
doug Sosa: please..
Pila Mulligan: there are some very arcane old Chinese yoga, as you probably know
Pila Mulligan: this one involves influences on the body -- particularly when an influence is felt in the calf
doug Sosa: continue..:)
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: the idea is that upon feeling that influence, to tarry in order not to lose balance
Pila Mulligan: I sense the need to do so several times a day, it usually results in 5-10 seconds of tarrying each time
Pila Mulligan: oops
doug Sosa: calf?
Pila Mulligan: lower leg
doug Sosa: ok, any piece of bodily tension takes you into some 9 sec like equivalent?
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
doug Sosa: ah paradise :)
Pila Mulligan: no, just at the calf :)
doug Sosa: so pila make the connection for me between the calf noticing an PaB.
Pila Mulligan: well, I had been doing the calf-noticing/tarry for at least 20 years before finding PaB -- and saw some similarity in the pause
Pila Mulligan: the idea for me is yogic balance
Pila Mulligan: physical more than mental
Pila Mulligan: and both seem to do that

(Hana's First Scribe) :)