2014.09.11 13:00 - By Calling and Design

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: OOOPs!
Bruce Mowbray: sorry, Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce, happy late afternoon
Bruce Mowbray: I didn't see you sitting there!
Eliza Madrigal: no worries...blending into cushion today
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal waves to Kori, ntsy
Korel Laloix: Heya
Bruce Mowbray: We were both orange clouds when I arrived... so confused our "Cloud Atlases," as it were.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bruce Mowbray: Kori!
Eliza Madrigal: I liked that film, although I can see how it lost many people
Bruce Mowbray: me too, on both counts.
Korel Laloix: Still not seen that one, but it is on my netflix list.

Bruce Mowbray: Still in Georgia, Kori?
Eliza Madrigal: Kori, I've been reading about your adventures! Are you traveling?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Korel Laloix: Sunday we depart.
Bruce Mowbray: ahhhh!
Bruce Mowbray: Well, then, BON VOYAGE!
Eliza Madrigal: stepping into what you've been preparing for?
Korel Laloix: Today and tomorrow are short appointments. Saturday is prep and Sunday morning we fly.
Korel Laloix: I think so... getting past some of the worst parts.
Bruce Mowbray: but not flying into Liberia, I hope.
Eliza Madrigal: very inspiring - thank you for your work
Korel Laloix: And will be so glad to get away from Atlanta. I so hate this place.
Eliza Madrigal: Atlanta has some nice spots but have to deal with a lot to enjoy them... just like Miami actually

Korel Laloix: I just hope something worth while comes out of our work.
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think it can help but do so
Bruce Mowbray has only been in the Atlanta Airport -- on his way to Scotland and other places, so knows nothing about the city.
Korel Laloix: I just have no idea why anyone would want to live here unless you are of a particular demographic.
Eliza Madrigal: well, there is a lot of work
Eliza Madrigal: and the airport is a big benefit
Bruce Mowbray: If I remember correctly, Kori, your work in Africa will involve chasing down the disease vectors for Ebola, right?
Korel Laloix: Yes, but not on the current outbreak strain.
Bruce Mowbray: kk...
Bruce Mowbray: I presume that you will have direct contact with persons living in communities that are affected by the Ebola virus . . . or some version of it.
Korel Laloix: Yes, ones that were effected by the last outbreak there.
Bruce Mowbray: Ahhh. TY.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Zon!
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Qt!
Eliza Madrigal: saw a photo today of a man suffering outside of a clinic because there was no room...very sad
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon and Qt :)
Qt Core: Hi all!
Korel Laloix: In some cases, he might fare better outside.
Bruce Mowbray: We have just been discussing Kori's upcoming trip to Africa to study the last outbreak of the Ebola virus . . . She will be leaving Sunday morning from Atlanta.
Korel Laloix: With all the collateral infection in poor or overtaxed clinics.
Eliza Madrigal: that makes sense actually
Bruce Mowbray: ( not this most recent outbreak which has spread to several countries, but the previous outbreak.)
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Bruce Mowbray: Do you know how many different strains there are of this horrible virus, Kori?
Korel Laloix: Strain is a difficult word. But there are six classified.
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh, ty.
Bruce Mowbray: As I told you in another session, earlier, my fear is mutations . . . that any of those six strains might mutate into a more contagious form.
Korel Laloix: But that includes Marburg with is a filo VHF, but some don't lump them together with Ebola.

Bruce Mowbray: Cal!
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome!
Eliza Madrigal: Wow... Hi Calvino, ltns
Korel Laloix: That has already happend with this current outbreaks or so it seems.
Eliza Madrigal: do you have a plan to keep your spirits up while traveling Kori?
Bruce Mowbray: (wonderful question, Eliza!)
Qt Core: Hi Cal
Eliza Madrigal: caretakers of all forms should think about those things :)
Calvino Rabeni: hi qt, everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: like an immunization
Korel Laloix: Oh yes... have a couple of books I am taking with.
Eliza Madrigal: what sorts?
Korel Laloix: http://www.amazon.com/Epistles-James...ible+dali+lama
Eliza Madrigal: this looks interesting!
Korel Laloix: http://www.manataka.org/page51.html
Bruce Mowbray: Wow.... What an amazing search!

--BELL--

Korel Laloix: I have a bunch of other stuff on my tablet so I will not run out. But those are my top list.
Eliza Madrigal: do you treat yourself with medicinal herbs? (anyone?)
Korel Laloix: I have read through both before, but going with different eyes.
Bruce Mowbray: not I.
Korel Laloix: We do.
Korel Laloix: Especially when I am with my aunts.... you really don't have a choice over there... lol
Bruce Mowbray loves "going with different eyes."
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I've occasionally received herbs from an accupuncturist... but know little of what I'm ingesting then
Eliza Madrigal: actually seeing a new person on Monday... all really fascinating but such foreign territory

Bruce Mowbray: It was once suggested to me that I treat my hayfever with a variety of herbs . . . . I tried them and nothing worked. Amazingly, the thing that worked best -- and that still works best --- is simply meditation.
Bruce Mowbray: This is hayfever season, right now . . . . and I think it is the least painful of any season in the past 40+ years.
Eliza Madrigal: particular meditation, or ?
Korel Laloix: Been a much cooler summer for most parts of the country, that might be why.
Bruce Mowbray: No, just the sort of " Jeff Foster 'fascination' meditation."
Bruce Mowbray: being amazed at everything.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: :))
Eliza Madrigal: intentional amazement
Korel Laloix: I am still not really shure what the word Amazing actually means.
Korel Laloix: sure
Bruce Mowbray: well, for my typist, a sort of accidental amazement, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: surprise. . . . exponentially?

Eliza Madrigal: Qt, Zon, Cal... any experience with healing techniques?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Korel Laloix: My aunts are into traditional healing formally.
Qt Core: nothing interesting by me
Korel Laloix: But they will tell you the most important part is knowing the person more than knowing their illness.
Zon Kwan: studies the power of suggestion
Eliza Madrigal: takes a long time to know a person?
Korel Laloix: True, but you can dig pretty deep quickly when someone is open to you... as if they approach you as a healer.
Bruce Mowbray ponders "knowing the person more than knowing their illness..."
Eliza Madrigal: so much information, but trust is a huge factor I guess
Korel Laloix: My aunts want me to take up after them and I may do that. If nothing else, looking at traditional Algonquin, Tsalagi or Horse Culture medicines could be a great Dissertation.
Eliza Madrigal: would looooooove to read that
Korel Laloix: Not done a literature search on it though. Might have alraedy been done. But that might be my dirrection.
Eliza Madrigal: seems really important to me. The medical 'system' isn't enough

Eliza Madrigal: Zon, when you say suggestion... like affirmations or positive thinking?
Zon Kwan: nods
Eliza Madrigal: can you give an example of something helpful?
Bruce Mowbray listens very carefully.
Zon Kwan: well i have heard that we have about 60 000 thoughts per day
Zon Kwan: and usually same thoughts every day
Korel Laloix: So 55k thoughts about sex, what are the rest?.. lol
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Zon Kwan: so if we keep on thinking fearful, hateful or negative thoughts
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Zon Kwan: they will gradually make us sick
Zon Kwan: and then we die
Bruce Mowbray: indeed.
Zon Kwan: finally
Zon Kwan: so if we could change those thoughts
Korel Laloix: http://www.livescience.com/14040-men...-thoughts.html
Korel Laloix: Just found this.
Bruce Mowbray: But it is so important that we express those so-called " negative" thoughts . . . that we own them and release them.
Zon Kwan: and our subconscious narrative

--BELL--

Zon Kwan: in theory that could heal
Bruce Mowbray: I want to emphasize very strongly that I do not buy into the shaming model of men's sexuality.
Zon Kwan: one way to do it is via suggestions
Korel Laloix: Subconscious narrative?
Zon Kwan: and our subconsciousness is quite simple minded
Calvino Rabeni seconds Bruce's comment
Bruce Mowbray: The thoughts that we are ashamed of expressing . . . . are the very thought/energies that get us stuck.
Zon Kwan: it does what it is told to do
Korel Laloix: Shaming model?
Eliza Madrigal: it seems really hard to me, to discern good and bad thoughts... because there are layers, for instance the very kind person who has a lot of fear of being negative, is actually poisoning themselves in some instances
Bruce Mowbray: I meant to type " shamed out of expressing"....

Calvino Rabeni: In my view a person's thoughts follow their perception of and contact with reality, so if that is the path, it isn't necessary to manipulate them or make them positive
Bruce Mowbray: agrees with Eliza . . . and adds that it is often shameful for a man to say that he even feels shamed.
Zon Kwan: i mean the inner talk like...blaming us
Korel Laloix: I have lost my way in this conversation... it has been a while since that happened though.
Eliza Madrigal nods..
Bruce Mowbray: "shameful" in the vernacular . . . . though not really shameful.
Eliza Madrigal: :) Kori...lots of lines at once and a few threads beginning... gender/shame/dualities
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Zon Kwan: to feel negative is to be changed by will
Bruce Mowbray tells his typist to sit on his hands and listen again. . .
Korel Laloix: I do see what you mean in some of it. I find it frustrating when people won't say what they mean.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe they don't know what they mean
Zon Kwan: this negative inner talk is autopilot
Korel Laloix: lol.. probably right.
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe they are afraid of being shamed.... so they say what they are expected to say.
Zon Kwan: why should one be ashamed
Bruce Mowbray: "should"?
Korel Laloix: I just find it nice when someone comes up and flatly asks me out instead of a cheesey pickup.
Zon Kwan: thats the negative inner talk
Eliza Madrigal: I can think of times when I found it really helpful to consciously introduce some new ideas that weren't comfortable... perhaps reminding myself over the course of time that concepts like 'deserving' or whatever...might need to be overthrown

Korel Laloix: And I do see a lot of my pals be nasty to guys when they get asked out and are not interested. No idea why. Just politely say no thanks. It is not that hard.
Calvino Rabeni: nods
Calvino Rabeni: no blame
Bruce Mowbray: but if that had been a man who attempted to pick you up, Kori, how would you feel then? Men, almost by definition in this culture, are morally inferior to women . . . . Men are experts at doing; women are the experts at feeling and morality ( or so says this culture.)
Eliza Madrigal: ah... dating is a horrible pride game
Korel Laloix: Of course I am a lousy judge really as my perspective is very different.
Zon Kwan: morality game...
Calvino Rabeni: nods to bruce... its a role specialization
Eliza Madrigal: Bruce isn't it more complex? women are judged far more harshly for so called immoral actions or thoughts or suggestions
Bruce Mowbray: Of course it is more complex. . . .
Korel Laloix: I unfortunatly get asked out by men way more than other women. And I am always polite, unless it is unpolite pickup.
Korel Laloix: And if the guy is nice, I might try to set him up with one of my friends.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Korel Laloix: Atlanta seems to be the kingdom of asshole pickup lines.
Calvino Rabeni: heh
Bruce Mowbray: the reason women are more harshly judged, is that they are expected to be ' superior' to men in these things . . . and if they fail at that, well they are judged more harshly. Men, on the other hand, are given more leeway in moral issues. . . . " Boys will be boys" and all that BS.
Korel Laloix: So not had the opportunity to be polite here yet.
Korel Laloix: Well, we are superior.. smiles
Calvino Rabeni: nods again to bruce

Zon Kwan: thinks this is based on patriarcal paradigm
Bruce Mowbray: It is a double bind - - - men are shamed for living up to the model that their culture gives them for manhood.
Korel Laloix: I have never figured it out.
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps... have been having these conversations with my son more actually... trying to be honest with him about some things, like... how women say they prefer gentlemen but that there is also a desire for assertiveness
Calvino Rabeni: what bruce is talking about is, i think, chiefly an american thing
Bruce Mowbray: I would surely hope so, Cal!
Korel Laloix: But I find it so frustrating that some of my friends that I deeply respect end up dating the worst types of guys.
Calvino Rabeni: not so much european
Eliza Madrigal nods
Korel Laloix: For some reason we are at some level attracted to idiots.
Zon Kwan: women marry gentlemen and are attracted by rascals
Eliza Madrigal: lol Zon
Eliza Madrigal: that's not what I did
Calvino Rabeni: idiots are great ...they relax the stakes
Korel Laloix: And yes, being a dyke, I have had friends of my gfs think bad of me in that way.
Bruce Mowbray: me neither, Eliza!
Korel Laloix: And I do have to admit, the very few guys I found attractive were very cocky and well built.
Eliza Madrigal: I like to think that each set of circumstances and personality encounters is unique... but admit there are cultural defaults

Bruce Mowbray: There also defaults -- or perhaps distances --- in maturity.
Eliza Madrigal nods Bruce... that seems a key point
Bruce Mowbray: it simply takes a while to get to understand . . .
Eliza Madrigal: but then you get older and are too tired, hah
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Bruce Mowbray: THANK GOODNESS!

Zon Kwan: pinches Elizas and Korels butt and waves with rascal smile
Eliza Madrigal laughing
Bruce Mowbray: OUCH!
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Eliza Madrigal: bye Zon :)
Eliza Madrigal: don't get in trouble
Bruce Mowbray: May your house be safe from Ebola.

--BELL--

Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix pinches Bruce's butt

Bruce Mowbray: May I change the subject....?
Korel Laloix: Please...
Eliza Madrigal: sure
Bruce Mowbray: Last week Wol was here, and she expressed contempt at arrogance in architecture.
Bruce Mowbray: that was a totally new idea for me.
Bruce Mowbray: I have been thinking about it all week.
Bruce Mowbray: Wol's statement was in reference to the Milwaukee Art Museum:
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.google.com/search?q=Milw...w=1476&bih=771
Bruce Mowbray: which she felt was utterly arrogant.
Korel Laloix: Not sure I know how to apply that adjective to that noun.
Bruce Mowbray: Since then, I have been thinking of architecture as metaphor.... and surely, the Milwaukee Museum is a metaphor.
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Eliza Madrigal: well, just go on, Bruce... out of context the idea is not so easy
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it is out of context and I'm sorry for that. I wish that Wol were here today.
Bruce Mowbray: Nevertheless, it has been eating at me . . . so I thought it best to bring it up.
Eliza Madrigal: no its perfectly fine.. was just saying it needs a little dot connecting :)
Bruce Mowbray: okay....

Bruce Mowbray: Last week, when I showed photos of the Milwaukee Art Museum which I also said inspired me,
Bruce Mowbray: Wol said that she found it ( the building) arrogant.
Bruce Mowbray: and, because I loved my experience there, I felt a bit defensive about it...
Bruce Mowbray: and that's probably why I've been thinking about it all week....
Eliza Madrigal: ah, I didn't think Wol was saying that the building itself was arrogant
Bruce Mowbray listens....
Eliza Madrigal: but some of the reactions or the way of dealing with inner display areas
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I should read again
Qt Core: i need to go, bye all
Bruce Mowbray: Did we even discuss the inner display areas? I do recall saying that they were very traditional and rectangular... but the outside of the building is quite remarkable, and it is anything but traditional.

Eliza Madrigal: okay Qt, ntsy
Korel Laloix: Ciao
Bruce Mowbray: Byr Qt!
Bruce Mowbray: Bye, Kori!
Bruce Mowbray: oh, sry, you'[re still here.

Eliza Madrigal: now I'm doubting the way I heard the conversation, Bruce, but you're right that architecture is really fascinating ... the conversation around it, the territorial battles
Korel Laloix: What makes a particular building design arrogant? Or humble?
Eliza Madrigal: I mean, consider the violence of Trump building his name to obscure views for others
Bruce Mowbray: I do not want to speak for Wol today. I felt her point was well made, last week. And I have simply been thinking about it all week....
Bruce Mowbray: I think you would need to ask Wol that question, Kori.
Korel Laloix: Interesting thought.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is like any calling... one approaches it as a sacred entrustment, another as vehicle of power
Eliza Madrigal: and so when looking at a design maybe one asks if the designer/s were about themselves or the 'community'

Bruce Mowbray: From what Wol said, I felt that it was a synchronizing of form and function . . . and that the form of the Milwaukee Art Museum simply had nothing to do with its function . . . And then I started thinking about "form" as a metaphorical idea.....
Eliza Madrigal: I think the building is interesting :)
Calvino Rabeni: nods
Bruce Mowbray: The building is fascinating... as is everything else by the same architect.... But I think Wol might consider most of his work to be ' arrogant.'

Korel Laloix: I just think museum architecture is a bad genre anyway. Typically expensive and difficult to maintain.
Eliza Madrigal: museums are some of the only buildings that are allowed to go off road :)
Bruce Mowbray: [just increase admission price....., Kori!]
Eliza Madrigal: I live in the land of strip malls, so for me anything that deviates is a refreshment
Bruce Mowbray: Bleu was present during that discussion last week, and more than anyone else that I know in Second Life, she has a sense of these things.
Eliza Madrigal: The Dali museum we're familiar with Kori...is a wonderful building!
Bruce Mowbray: ??
Eliza Madrigal: a museum in Florida that Kori told me about and I visited
Eliza Madrigal: one doesn't really forget walking up interesting stairs
Eliza Madrigal: it inhabits you
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.google.com/search?safe=o...69.qi9k3XRp3cM
Korel Laloix: that is a nice one I think.... Many fond memories there really.
Bruce Mowbray: WOW!
Eliza Madrigal: :) not just the usual 60000 thoughts maybe

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: :) thanks for being here Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I am gone. THANKS, everyone.
Calvino Rabeni has company ... bye all :)
Korel Laloix: Ciao Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: bye Cal, thanks for coming too
Korel Laloix: OK.. take care.
Eliza Madrigal: ntsy

Eliza Madrigal: Kori maybe after your travels I will ask you some questions for your aunts
Korel Laloix: Sure... what do you want to know?
Korel Laloix: There is lots I don't know about them either, they ar every private in ways that I don't understand.
Korel Laloix: And overly open in others.
Eliza Madrigal: having some health trouble lately... and I know some of it is stress but
[some editing done since it doesn't seem wise in our times to publish medical history]
Eliza Madrigal: or what you do...
Korel Laloix: I will ask them. Typically they well ask you for symptoms if you have self diagnosed.
Korel Laloix: Can you say more please?
[more said]
Korel Laloix: Oh Ok. Anything else?
Korel Laloix: I will copy this down and give them a call. If I get something back I will let you know when I can.
Eliza Madrigal: early on, it was issues with legs... that's not so much the case now although I still can't wear heels very long (not the biggest deal in the world) or run
Korel Laloix: Else it might be a while as they do not do email.
Eliza Madrigal: thanks... I'm just always gathering information
Eliza Madrigal: so thought I'd ask
Korel Laloix: OK.. my pleasure to help Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: appreciate that!
Eliza Madrigal: I am going to see a new rheumatologist Monday
Eliza Madrigal: who also practices natural medicine
Korel Laloix: They like to help, but be warned. They may also want to chat with you. WHich is its own trial.. smiles
Korel Laloix: Great.
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: I'd love that
Eliza Madrigal: I usually just deal, but then again I've not struggled this much in a while
Korel Laloix: I will give you some tips if it comes that.
Korel Laloix: OK.. I will let them know.
Eliza Madrigal: gratsi!
Eliza Madrigal: And I wish you safe and healthy travels
Korel Laloix: Thanks Eliza.

Eliza Madrigal: very happy for you to get to do something you've wanted....meaningful for the world
Korel Laloix: This is going to be a journey to remember for sure.
Korel Laloix: I hope so. But we will see once i get there.
Korel Laloix: Take care. Hope you feel better.
Eliza Madrigal: look forward to hearing and reading about it when you return.
Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)