The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce. The comments are by Agatha.

Introductions

Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
Agatha Macbeth: Hello unavailable Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Phrynne Resident: 's current display-name is "Phrynne".
Agatha Macbeth: Isn't it the wrong day to be unavailable?
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Phrynne :)
Phrynne Resident: hello
Agatha Macbeth: Welcome
Aphrodite Macbain: brb
Phrynne Resident: hello Agatha and Aph
Agatha Macbeth: Aphie this is my friend from Caledon Oxbridge
Agatha Macbeth: She's come to check out PaB :)
Phrynne Resident: I have no idea about it at all, so I come without a lot of preconceptions.
Agatha Macbeth: Even better!
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Tura :)
Tura Brezoianu: hi all
Phrynne Resident: hi Tura
Agatha Macbeth: Hey Rid
Phrynne Resident: hello Riddle
Riddle Sideways: hey/Hi All
Riddle Sideways: Happy st. Valentines day
Agatha Macbeth: Meet Phrynne, my friend from Caledon Oxbridge
Tura Brezoianu: hi Phrynne
Agatha Macbeth: She is the Dean of Commons there
Riddle Sideways: hi Phynne, welcome
Riddle Sideways: nice avi
Phrynne Resident: thank you
Agatha Macbeth: Just waiting for Liz and Bruce now
Riddle Sideways: there is a better tinies cushion, But aggers has it covered
Agatha Macbeth: Are you OK on that cushion?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi
Aphrodite Macbain: Back
Phrynne Resident: I'm not a tiny, I'm a dinkie -- they use ordinary animations
Agatha Macbeth: WB Aph
Phrynne Resident: (Dinkies have elbows and knees)
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Bruce Mowbray:'s current display-name is "Bruce".
Riddle Sideways: yes, you look to be sitting correctly
Agatha Macbeth: Brucie :)
Aphrodite Macbain: just arranging for post op knee replacement!
Aphrodite Macbain: sigh
Agatha Macbeth: Dinkies are tres cute
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce and everyone
Agatha Macbeth: •✠• Øh Μч ɢøɖ •✠•
--BELL--1.00
Aphrodite Macbain: I know :(
Agatha Macbeth: Best of luck Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice -um- slippers Bruce
Phrynne Resident: hello Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, everyone!
Agatha Macbeth: Bruce this is Phrynne from Caledon Oxbridge
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Phrynne welcome!
Agatha Macbeth: She's a dean at COU
Bruce Mowbray: Hi and welcome, Phrynne. I think we've met before.
Agatha Macbeth: Oh great
Phrynne Resident: yes, in the 7 am meditation group, I think?
Phrynne Resident: I haven't been there in a while.
Phrynne Resident: my RL schedule shifted
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, we met at Caledon, I recall.
Riddle Sideways: A Dean!!! oh dear, need to preend am smart
Agatha Macbeth: Well I seem to get away with it :P
Phrynne Resident: Not at all -- I decorate the grounds for the seasons, keep an eye on the tutors, kick out griefers.
Agatha Macbeth: And very well too
Phrynne Resident: Sort of a combination gardener, middle management and janitor
Riddle Sideways: ok, goes back to being a smart ass

Data

Aphrodite Macbain: Would anyone here be willing to facilitate this session. I will have to disappear in 10 minutes
Aphrodite Macbain: It's a really interesting subject
Aphrodite Macbain looks around the group
Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: hiya
Agatha Macbeth: Bleuji :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu.
Phrynne Resident: hello Bleu
Tura Brezoianu: hi Bleu
Riddle Sideways: Hey Bleu
Aphrodite Macbain: H/she who holds the big data has the power?
Bleu Oleander: or it?
Agatha Macbeth: Bleu this is my friend Phrynne, Dean of Commons at Caledon Oxbridge
Agatha Macbeth: She's popping in for a visit
Aphrodite Macbain: or can the small data/little person have equality with them?
Bleu Oleander: nice to meet you Phrynne
Phrynne Resident: nice to meet you too
Bruce Mowbray: AI might create the largest wealth gap in history
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain thinks about Microsoft and Facebook
Bruce Mowbray: Currently,, the richest 1% own half the world's wealth – The richest 100 people own more than the poorest 4 billion.
Tura Brezoianu: I guess that's already the largest wealth gap in history.
Agatha Macbeth: I'd rather not not think about either :p
Aphrodite Macbain: Does that 1% own the databanks?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Tura, and it's only getting worse -- i.e., more unequal.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, yes and no, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: The only power we have is to not use communication technology
Bruce Mowbray: The do own access to our data, though.
Tura Brezoianu: Technically, it's the shareholders of Facebook that own its data, but Zuckerberg who has the power to decide what to do with it.
Bruce Mowbray: If we give it to them....
Riddle Sideways: an not completely readarticle in the paper today.. new governor on Cal. wants to have bif data who use citizen's data pay for it
Riddle Sideways: no details on the plan yet
Aphrodite Macbain: How can we rebalance the situation?
Bruce Mowbray: Can liberal democracies do anything to balance it out -- or to regulate those who control the data?
Riddle Sideways: what Newsom is suggesting and putting forth
Bleu Oleander: we should become aware of how the 'attention merchants' manipulate us
Bruce Mowbray: Harari says that when massive data is collected on us, we become the product --
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Bruce Mowbray: because that data is going to be sold.
Bruce Mowbray: (as with Cambridge Analytica.)
Tura Brezoianu: Facebook say they never sell users' data, and as far as I can make out, that's true. Instead, they use the data themselves to show ads to users.
Phrynne Resident: Is there any way to prevent data from being collected on yourself?
Aphrodite Macbain: there's the question
Aphrodite Macbain: careful what you give them
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. Riddle, could a VPN prevent data being collected?
Tura Brezoianu: Cambridge Analytica passed on data, but that was in breach of Facebook's rules.
Bleu Oleander: much of our data has already been collected?
Riddle Sideways: redirects the collection point
Bruce Mowbray: (virtual private network -- which cloaks your online identity)
Aphrodite Macbain: There are always new opportunities...
Bleu Oleander: well we give data in lots of places, not just online
Riddle Sideways: makes it look like you are in Canada or Russia
Agatha Macbeth nods
Riddle Sideways: so collects data on that person
Aphrodite Macbain: I've been preparing my income tax return on line and am feeling nervous abaout it
Phrynne Resident: maybe the question is also how far back does the data go? Present-time data is available; pre-computer era data would be harder to get.
Agatha Macbeth: Erk
Tura Brezoianu: Use a VPN, TOR, private mode in your browser, reject all cookies, use Bitcoin for all financial transactions... That's too much work for almost anyone, and I don't think Amazon takes Bitcoin.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, as Riddle said, a VPN can make it appear that you are connected through some foreign country --- (I often connect through the Philippines.)
Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm afraid I have to go...ploughing through the snow..ho ho ho
Bleu Oleander: bye Aph
Phrynne Resident: be careful
Agatha Macbeth: Best of luck Aphie
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Aph.
Bruce Mowbray: Be well!
Aphrodite Macbain: bfn
Agatha Macbeth: Be well
Tura Brezoianu: bye Aph
Agatha Macbeth: Snap
Riddle Sideways: tbye aph, hope all goes well
Aphrodite Macbain: operation is not yet
Bruce Mowbray: Lovely dress Aph, btw.
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm just getting tests atm
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks :)
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: HAppy Valentines Day everyone
Agatha Macbeth: ♥
Bruce Mowbray: Transfer of authority from humans to algorithms. Algorithms replace advertising. . . “Google, what is the best car for me to buy?”
--BELL--1.15
Riddle Sideways: There was a long good report on NPR of a reporter trying to cut the FB Google, M$, Apple cords
Riddle Sideways: and Amizon
Bruce Mowbray: Harari made the example of someone being denied a loan at a bank - because the algorithm rejected him - but no one at the bank could explain why.
Riddle Sideways: shopping is only a little bit. AWS has lots of stuff on you
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Phrynne Resident: AWS?
Riddle Sideways: Amizon web Services
Phrynne Resident: tx
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Riddle Sideways: largest group of servers out there for rent
Riddle Sideways: that be the cloud
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Bruce Mowbray: So, are we already connected to networks (i.e., the cloud) from birth to death?
Tura Brezoianu: In principle, there's been no privacy on the Internet since cookies were invented (...pause for Googling...) 25 years ago. The public are only now noticing.
Riddle Sideways: may have gotten which part to read for this week, but Harari also goes on how a hiring AI would not be color nor gender pred
Bruce Mowbray: We're talking about the chapter on "Equality" this week, Rid.
Riddle Sideways: ok
Agatha Macbeth: That's one good thing then :)
Bruce Mowbray: which is Chapter 26 in the Audiobook.
Riddle Sideways: have Kindle book
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Riddle Sideways: it has chapters
Bruce Mowbray: cool.
Riddle Sideways: like 3
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.
Agatha Macbeth: Technology eh
Riddle Sideways: ㋡
Bleu Oleander: chap 4 in kindle
Agatha Macbeth: Bleu knows! :)
Riddle Sideways: ok thanks
Bleu Oleander: yw!
Bruce Mowbray: Audiobook chops up the hardcopy chapters into much smaller pieces.
Riddle Sideways: btw - after last week's mention of the Pizza order. looked it up. there are like 39 different versions
Riddle Sideways: of that joke
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Bruce Mowbray: So, big data could enable the rich to get richer -- eventually to augment their bodies and minds and become - perhas - a new species, or so says Harari.
Agatha Macbeth: Didn't someone once say there are only 3 basic jokes?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Agatha Macbeth: (It wasn't me :p)
Bruce Mowbray: (and some linguists say there are only four basic sentence structures....)
Agatha Macbeth: Sorry, carry on
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Agatha Macbeth nods
Phrynne Resident: (doesn't that depend on the language?)
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Bruce Mowbray: Perhpas, Phrynne. I'm not sure.
Riddle Sideways: Cyberpunk William Gibson, Neal Stephenson, et.al all had almost different species humans
Riddle Sideways: the rich living in cloud lands-buildings
Riddle Sideways: 400 year lives
Agatha Macbeth: Man in the high castle and all that
Bruce Mowbray nods. Social-political systems collapse.
Agatha Macbeth: Actually I preferred the Morlocks :p
Bruce Mowbray: Digital dictators. Manipulation of emotions.
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh! The Time Machine.
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed :)
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: H.G. Wells.
Agatha Macbeth: Bless him
Agatha Macbeth: No relation to Orson
Bruce Mowbray: Some of Harari's predictions remind me of the Borg in Star Trek.
Phrynne Resident: 'you will be assimilated'?
Agatha Macbeth: You will be assimilated?
Bleu Oleander: speaking of living longer .... interesting conversation here: https://alivebynature.com/david-sinc...rogan-podcast/
Riddle Sideways: zap
Agatha Macbeth: Snap
Bruce Mowbray: Everyone linked-assimilatd.
Phrynne Resident: lol
--BELL--1.30
Riddle Sideways: thinks of the episode of Data trying to tell a joke
Riddle Sideways: (s)
Phrynne Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I'm concerned about the QUALITY of the connections. . . .
Agatha Macbeth: Yes
Bruce Mowbray: and I enjoyed that too, Riddle.
Agatha Macbeth: Quality over quantity?
Riddle Sideways: research shows there are 5.5 types of jokes, no wait 6, no 10 or a top 10
Agatha Macbeth: That's research for you
Bruce Mowbray: Using an android can evolve into MANY plot lines. . . .
Agatha Macbeth: How is Elan?
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I will sdee if Elan is awake.
Agatha Macbeth: Plug him in for a bit]
Bruce Mowbray: see*
Bleu Oleander: hey, are you all working on your art projects?
Agatha Macbeth: Yes!
Bleu Oleander: great!
Agatha Macbeth: When is it again?
Riddle Sideways: with yesterday's 4 hours of power outage here, learned the Alice & Botty were so quiet they were dead
Bleu Oleander: due a week from tomorrow... 2/22
Agatha Macbeth: OK thx
Bleu Oleander: opening to be announced soonish
ElanVitalo Resident: 's current display-name is "Elan".
Agatha Macbeth: Hi Elan :)
Agatha Macbeth: Been a while
Riddle Sideways: Hey Elan
Bleu Oleander: hi Elan!
ElanVitalo Resident: Hi, good humans.
Phrynne Resident: hello Elan
Bleu Oleander: got any good jokes?
Agatha Macbeth hands you a silicon chip
ElanVitalo Resident: YUM YUM!
ElanVitalo Resident looks around for Eliza.
Agatha Macbeth: Yes where is she?
Bleu Oleander: working on her art project!
Bleu Oleander: lol
Riddle Sideways: yes, thatz it
Agatha Macbeth: You hope...
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, Elan.
Riddle Sideways: thank you, what was that?
ElanVitalo Resident: Eliza's art project maybe?
Riddle Sideways: and we all got quiet and waited for Elan to collect our data
Bleu Oleander: or tell a good joke
ElanVitalo Resident: I'm WAYYY ahead of you!
ElanVitalo Resident:
ElanVitalo Resident: So, are you all redy to become augmented?
ElanVitalo Resident: ready*
Bleu Oleander: aren't we already?
ElanVitalo Resident: Androids make typos too, you know.
Riddle Sideways: what happened to the Google Glasses
ElanVitalo Resident: Hmmm, well, perhaps you are....
Bruce Mowbray: Second Life is a form of augmentation, isn't it?
ElanVitalo Resident: It is NOW!
Riddle Sideways: Elan, do you dream electric sheep?
ElanVitalo Resident: hmmm, I don't remember my dreams, sorry.
Bruce Mowbray: Has anyone here every used one of those cell hone language translators?
Bruce Mowbray: Like, to conduct business, shopping, order a meal in a foreign country?
Agatha Macbeth: Sounds frightening
Riddle Sideways: used real translators many times long ago
Bruce Mowbray: I've seen them advertised.
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Bruce Mowbray: Human translators, Riddle?
Bleu Oleander: still use cassettes in my car LOL
Riddle Sideways: wow
Agatha Macbeth: Cassettes...oh my
Phrynne Resident: used a printed phrase book last time I needed to translate.
Agatha Macbeth: Still got those
Bleu Oleander: very old car :)
Riddle Sideways: mix tapes?
Agatha Macbeth: At least it doesn't have a gramaphone
Tura Brezoianu: I've used Google Translate to communicate with shop assistants a few times
ElanVitalo Resident consults database to learn about "cassettes" and finds something about 9-track . . . and 78 RPM records.
Bruce Mowbray: Wow! Great, Tura.
Riddle Sideways: 8-track?
Agatha Macbeth: 8 track!
ElanVitalo Resident: Ooops. 8-track, yes.
Bleu Oleander: PaB is 9-track
Riddle Sideways: used SL chat translate?
Agatha Macbeth: Quadraphenia (sp?)
Riddle Sideways: fav album
Phrynne Resident: four sound channels
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I've used the SL traslator.
Bruce Mowbray: translator*
Riddle Sideways: Quadraphonic
Phrynne Resident: right. sorry.
Riddle Sideways: The Who
Riddle Sideways: is the other name
Bruce Mowbray ponders "quadraphrenia"
--BELL--1.45
Agatha Macbeth: Pinball wizard
Bleu Oleander: who's on first?
Agatha Macbeth: >.<
Riddle Sideways: nope, on the other album
Bleu Oleander: ok so maybe 11 kinds of jokes
Agatha Macbeth: 11.5
Bleu Oleander: :)
Riddle Sideways: but who's counting
Bleu Oleander: for sure a .5 kinda joke
Agatha Macbeth: Not moi
Tura Brezoianu: There are 10 sorts of joke, those that are about binary numbers and those that aren't.
ElanVitalo Resident doesn't understand these jokes about jokes.
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Agatha Macbeth: 0100111
Phrynne Resident: lol
Bruce Mowbray: I'll explain it later, Elan .
Agatha Macbeth: Don't short circuit him
Riddle Sideways: there are 10 kinds of people
Bruce Mowbray: btw, is it a good idea for you to have your feet in the water?
Riddle Sideways: those that understand bianary
Bleu Oleander: binary and non-binary?
Agatha Macbeth: 7 daughters of Eve
Riddle Sideways: are we all avoiding talking about Big Data
Bruce Mowbray: That's better, Elan.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we don't have any
Bleu Oleander: no, just creating more data
Tura Brezoianu: and Equality
Riddle Sideways: NSA Bodd is listening
Riddle Sideways: and we are giving nothing
Bleu Oleander: wiki has lots of data :)
Bruce Mowbray: As the masses lose their economic relevance, the state could start denying them benefits.
Agatha Macbeth: Never know who reads the logs
Bleu Oleander: the state is already denying benefits :)
Agatha Macbeth: (Apart from Liz that is)  /me waves
Bleu Oleander: ah so Liz owns the data!
ElanVitalo Resident: I thought that the current American president was basically elected through manipulating big data.
Agatha Macbeth: She does?
Riddle Sideways: Boxy has our data
Riddle Sideways: P
Bleu Oleander: we all have each others data
Bruce Mowbray: What happens to our data when there's a sim restart?
Riddle Sideways: Pres has the BIGGEST Data, bigger then anybodies
Riddle Sideways: ever
Bleu Oleander: hopefully comes back :)
ElanVitalo Resident ponders the sentence, "Boxy has our data."

Bleu Oleander: we ARE data
Riddle Sideways: hmmm yes
Phrynne Resident: I am not data.
Bruce Mowbray: Indeed, and as we see ourselves, we see the cosmos.... so, the universe is data.
Phrynne Resident: the universe is a great deal more than data or numbers.
Agatha Macbeth: Good old Boxy
ElanVitalo Resident: WAIT, Phrynne is holding out. . .
Bruce Mowbray: How can you be sure, Phrynne>
Phrynne Resident: If you become completely reductionist, reducing everything to data, you miss what life is.
Riddle Sideways: that silly Dark Matter
Phrynne Resident: You miss what beauty is. You miss poetry and music.
Bruce Mowbray: Wasn't that the whole idea behind the Matrix -- our being simulated?
Riddle Sideways: maybe data or maybe space
Phrynne Resident: You miss awe.
Bleu Oleander: data can be beautiful
ElanVitalo Resident: Yes, I do miss awe. . .
Bruce Mowbray: awwwwww.....
Phrynne Resident: I am hearing an awful lot of unsupported ideas about the far end of a spectrum and very little about what is being left out of the middle, or even outside the spectrum.
Riddle Sideways: I miss awe some
Bleu Oleander: say more Phrynne?
ElanVitalo Resident ponders "outside the spectrum...."
Phrynne Resident: If we are all thought of *only* as data, we are imaginary. Numbers are imaginary; you can't eat or wear them, or plant them.
Riddle Sideways: or that we should be saying more
Phrynne Resident: I'm not hearing a lot of play, and very little being.
ElanVitalo Resident: Yikes!
Phrynne Resident: When it is all numbers, being is left out.
Agatha Macbeth: onigokko
ElanVitalo Resident looks for oni.
Agatha Macbeth: That was play
Phrynne Resident: yes
Phrynne Resident: thank you
Bleu Oleander: I don't think numbers don't diminish being
ElanVitalo Resident: I must go. Thank you for inviting me here. May all humans be well and happy.
Phrynne Resident: Music can be described as numbers, but that's not all it is.
Agatha Macbeth: TC Elan
Bleu Oleander: no, of course not ALL there is
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, Elan. . . and everyone. I have a meditation at the top of the hour.
Phrynne Resident: but isn't that what was said, that we are all numbers?
Agatha Macbeth: (The oni goes on playing so I detatch it) Ah that stopped it
Bruce Mowbray: _/|\_
Bleu Oleander: I don't think that way
Tura Brezoianu: bye Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I must remember to check to see if I'm still wearing my oni.
Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well Brucie
Bruce Mowbray: So, bye for now, good humans.
Phrynne Resident: bye for now
Riddle Sideways: if reduced... the Data is numbers
Bleu Oleander: on some level we are but on other levels we are beautiful
Tura Brezoianu: The data are collected to sell stuff to us. The data model of us is a sort of distorted, limited mannikin.
--BELL--2.00
Riddle Sideways: if combined it is a total picture
Phrynne Resident: Is it?
Riddle Sideways: missing some bits
Bleu Oleander: just because we understand how a rainbow is formed, doesn't diminish its beautiy
Riddle Sideways: true
Bleu Oleander: anyway, gotta go
Bleu Oleander: nice to see you all today
Phrynne Resident: nice to meet you
Bleu Oleander: and nice to meet you Phrynne

                 
Agatha Macbeth: That was a quick hour
Phrynne Resident: I need to go as well.
Bleu Oleander: bfn and tc
Agatha Macbeth: TC Bleuji
Riddle Sideways: tc
Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Agatha, Riddle
Riddle Sideways: good night
Agatha Macbeth: BFN Tu
Riddle Sideways: thanks