19 - 21 Turning Wheels Shear

Scribed by SophiaSharon for July, 2010. 

When you look at the logs over a period of time, our conversations appear random - an enjoyable meandering through a philosophical kind of water, with 'being' as the drop that flows through it all. Bruce spoke lately of the book "Grist for the Mill" by Ram Dass (with Steven Levine), and since then I've been thinking a lot about this mill. We brought up the saying "all is grist for the mill" meaning "everything can be made useful, or be a source of profit"(wikipedia). I'm not sure about 'a source of profit', but it also means that the person in question can make something positive out of anything that comes along. It reminds me also of "Hamlet's Mill" which is "An Essay Investigating the Origins of Human Knowledge and Its Transmission Through Myth". Now, I'm not here to debate the validity of any of the concepts in that book, but the imagery of both books has been evocative for me in placing our conversations here in context: we are all here discussing knowledge in different forms and looking through our world views to see what is underneath. Sometimes, this looking shears away what we thought we knew.

2010.07.19 01:00 - Many good things

Calvino Rabeni: I'm not sure how to start ...
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)
Calvino Rabeni: but it seems, "mind" is not inside each person, but something we are all inside
Calvino Rabeni: maybe taiji gives more of a feel for it
Calvino Rabeni: whenever we are around a group of friends, the energy of it (or what you call it? ) is all around
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes , its able to feel
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: all of friends
Calvino Rabeni: not separate :)

Calvino Rabeni: The idea of the group mind is sometimes disturbing to people
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: why is that so?
Calvino Rabeni: maybe it interferes with their idea of freedom, or how liberation may work
Calvino Rabeni: or it seems like "too much work" ?
Calvino Rabeni: I'm not really sure
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm or maby its about want to be separate?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but why?
Calvino Rabeni: Independence....
Calvino Rabeni: Making one's own decisions
Cosmicflower Ushimawa: maby
Calvino Rabeni: to be the author of one's own life?
Calvino Rabeni: That group mind could bring much knowledge, as well as some responsibilities and limitations

2010.07.19 07:00 - Mermaids of Sheer Appearance

Eden Haiku: We are discussing "sheer appearance"...

Eliza Madrigal: An interesting turn for me is always to allow oneself to 'hear' or 'see' what appearance is presenting... seems a very practical way to awareness...
Eliza Madrigal: and for me anyway, shows me how much I tend to do the opposite
Strannik Zipper: if you think of it as a "what" are you layering in an identification in awareness?

Eos Amaterasu: In the sheerness of sheer appearance is yourself as well as the object, both absent

Eos Amaterasu: the sheer cuts you as well as it
Eos Amaterasu: me as well as that
Eos Amaterasu: only the openness of the cut remains
Eos Amaterasu: shining
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: (now back in its sheath)

Eos Amaterasu: the crack is not made
Bleu Oleander: very abstract
Strannik Zipper: sheer awareness is aware of what is seen and the seer
Eden Haiku: Not made Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: not added to it
Eos Amaterasu: the crack is its very nature

Eos Amaterasu: part of the sheerness is bowing to that: it blows you away :-)

Eden Haiku:

Pabbers are crackers/
Eager to crack the sheer code/
Shifting and shifting :)

Eden Haiku:

Mermaids in the pool/
Cracking both jokes and sheer codes/
Blurbing their sheer thoughts

Eliza Madrigal:

***time is presenting/
layers of sheer awareness/
light laughter bubbles***

2010.07.19 13:00 - Trouble comes in threes

Calvino Rabeni: Trouble comes in threes (is that a saying?)
Agatha Macbeth: I think so yes
Agatha Macbeth: If only it would stop at three!
Liza Deischer: 3 keer is scheepsrecht
Agatha Macbeth: Agreed :p
Archmage Atlantis: Yes, but is because the current human brain cannot conceive more than 3
Agatha Macbeth: You might be right Arch

Calvino Rabeni: Each of those small numbers has a different quality
Agatha Macbeth: Mm
Calvino Rabeni: and geometry
Archmage Atlantis: Try to think of 5, and tell us if you see 5 or 3 and 2
Agatha Macbeth: Or the square root of 25
Calvino Rabeni: take 3 for instance - see, any 2 objects are in a line, but if there are 3 in a line, it indicates an actual trend of some kind
Agatha Macbeth: Ah..
Calvino Rabeni: thus the significance of 3, in omens, stories, and jokes
Archmage Atlantis: historical trend, agree
Agatha Macbeth: 'Twice is coincidence but three is conspiracy'?
Archmage Atlantis: not a future
Calvino Rabeni: yes like that
Calvino Rabeni: in a way, 3 indicates some outside force doing the positioning

Qt Core: may i suggest a link about speaking/arguing to god, i haven't yet decided if it is obscene or wonderful, deeply religious or totally atheistic: http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal

I found it quite hilarious actually, DO take a look!

Calvino Rabeni: No, time happens everywhere at once, it doesn't do a very good job of connecting events
Agatha Macbeth: Musical cushions, encore une fois....
Calvino Rabeni: space on the other hand, is a culprit
Agatha Macbeth: Is space curved?
Calvino Rabeni: much as it tries to make room for diversity to happen at once

2010.07.19 19:00 - Existence and Awareness

SophiaSharon Larnia: I’m still thinking about what you said earlier Eliza, about looking at things fresh, like through newcomer's eyes.
Paradise Tennant: smiles looking at things fresh is .. a kind of dropping isn't it
Eliza Madrigal: yes, seems it is...
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes! Dropping an expectation, or opinion
Eliza Madrigal: In Eden's session this morning, Bleu called sheer appearances a 'fresh encounter'

Bleu Oleander: "the word 'sheer' suggests that we stay with what appears."
Eliza Madrigal: that's how I tend to feel it also... like solidity is made up of layers which seem impenetrable at first...
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: listens
Eliza Madrigal: So as an exercise, how would you describe this Bleu?
SophiaSharon Larnia: sheer being labels, interpreting, recognizing patterns,
Bleu Oleander: a : unqualified, utter b : being free from an adulterant : pure, unmixed

Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes... nothing added...
Eliza Madrigal: which seems to me another 'layer'
Eliza Madrigal: funny
Bleu Oleander: the base layer perhaps
Bleu Oleander: upon which other layers are added maybe?
SophiaSharon Larnia: nothing added, attempting to regulate what appears?
Eliza Madrigal: unconditioned...
Bleu Oleander: letting appearance appear
Eliza Madrigal: part of conditioning seems to stick everything together...
Bleu Oleander: kinda like being seeing I would imagine
SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
Eliza Madrigal: yes, these are really helpful distinctions...

SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking of seeing with no 'I' involved is scary
Eliza Madrigal: but perhaps seeing with no "I" involved is refreshing...
Bleu Oleander: I personally don't think one can see with no "I" in a conscious sense
Eliza Madrigal: dropping thinking...
SophiaSharon Larnia: i picture a camera lens with all these dials
Eliza Madrigal: but one would say that the I does that maybe, which I don't think it's capable of doing... hehe
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Paradise Tennant: hmm there are different kinds of seeing :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: so funny, i read that chapter and didnt see what we were talking about
Eliza Madrigal: Like I missed the phrase 'fresh encounter'
SophiaSharon Larnia: no wonder i was frightened
SophiaSharon Larnia: why great to come here and talk about it

Eliza Madrigal: which is like my nose now: "We talked about the freshness of what appears, as it appears, before we get lost in labeling and judging. Let us call this fresh encounter `sheer appearance' to emphasize that we are dealing with appearance before adding anything to it. "
SophiaSharon Larnia: your nose?
Eliza Madrigal: "As plain as the nose on my face"
SophiaSharon Larnia: ohhh (giggles)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, as the I my nose
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe

2010.07.20 07:00 - Trust of Falling into Being

Riddle Sideways: yes, the normal chat here is more mutual collaboration
Bruce Mowbray: precisely so, yes.
Bruce Mowbray: as if we're all collaborating on a koan or -- if you'll excuse the metaphor - a Riddle.
Bruce Mowbray: but with no set "right" answer.
Bruce Mowbray: more a voyage of discovery that we take together

Bruce Mowbray: Has anyone attempted a voyage of "mere appearance" with the heat and humidity?
Bruce Mowbray: Seems a bit curious to me that we give "thingness-existence" to a temperature and atmospheric condition.
Eliza Madrigal: not much left to say after 'you're already everything and always have been' perhaps...
Riddle Sideways agrees
Riddle Sideways: Bruce, for me it is easier to do then with cold
Bruce Mowbray wonders if "existence" is evoked by contrasts.
Bruce Mowbray: hot-cold. . .
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: "not purple" is as much a label as "purple" you mean ?
Bruce Mowbray: I give existence to the iced tea because it is cold - compared to the heat/humidity of the day.
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: as bad as thinking in opposing concepts is. It is how many ppl do the world.
Riddle Sideways: and is a nice visit
Riddle Sideways: but would not like to stay in the dualism for too long
Bruce Mowbray: . . . . agreed about the dualism. . . But how nice it is to walk into a cool room after being outside in the heat/humidity - - -
Riddle Sideways: maybe take a different point of view every 15 minutes

Eliza Madrigal: Riddle, what was your pov when diving from the sky? :))
Eliza Madrigal: enjoyed reading about that :)
Riddle Sideways: you mean besides the "ohhhhh, sh*****"
Eliza Madrigal: hehe, yes... though that being part of it is certainly understandable!

Riddle Sideways: actually got over that in couple seconds
Riddle Sideways: flying/floating like you can do here
Riddle Sideways: spin the world around if you like
Eliza Madrigal: spin the world around... love that
Riddle Sideways: see it from on high
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: actually being in one of those frontal baby carriers like I did to my kids was quite a POV
Riddle Sideways: complete trust that new parent/carrier knows all/best
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, interesting connection... the way we carry them around, wow yes

Eliza Madrigal: truthfully though, when I think of sky-diving... it must be like diving straight into a fear...
Gaya Ethaniel: or freedom ...
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Riddle Sideways: it can be both (and more) at the same time
Riddle Sideways: probably should be both
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Probably 'both' makes the experience.
Gaya Ethaniel: makes it if you know what I mean ...
Riddle Sideways: yes
Eliza Madrigal nods
Riddle Sideways: did not really feel like earth rushing at me
Riddle Sideways: until the last 50 feet
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Eliza Madrigal: haha, oh my
Gaya Ethaniel: So fear got bigger as you fell further?
Riddle Sideways: no, not really

Riddle Sideways: but heights are not one of my fears
Eliza Madrigal: and a guide/instructor supported your 'no support' ...
Riddle Sideways: sudden stops are not so much a fear either
Riddle Sideways: yes, going to a place of complete trust
Riddle Sideways: just let somebody else 'support'
Gaya Ethaniel: ?
Eliza Madrigal: yup, that's scary :)
Riddle Sideways: I was not in control
Riddle Sideways: I did not have the parachute
Riddle Sideways: nor the pull chord
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Riddle Sideways: trust somebody
Riddle Sideways: be the child
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel ponders.

Bruce Mowbray: Is it possible to fall out of Being?
Eliza Madrigal: !
Eliza Madrigal: O.o
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i can :)
Gaya Ethaniel: One may think that ... one can give into those thoughts I'm sure, give too much credits.

Bruce Mowbray: You can fall out of Being?
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think so, every time when i get kind of depressed and suspicious about what have i done wrong, how would i have done things better
Yakuzza Lethecus: when i circle negative thoughts in an unhealthy way
Bruce Mowbray: I see.
Yakuzza Lethecus: and can’t get out of these structures at all
Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i would describe that as not being
Yakuzza Lethecus: or is it, being pain?

Bruce Mowbray: But with just a shift, you might fall back INTO Being - - -
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and to have a kind of memory of that, on either side... yes, like subject/object/both/neither...
Gaya Ethaniel: I think even with sudden insights, however many, it would take some time and efforts to build up confidence ... and trust.

2010.07.20 13:00 - Contemplation

Bruce Mowbray: In the past 24 hours, I've been using the image of a wheel - with a rim (outer) and a hub (inner) to find my way back to "purpose."
Calvino Rabeni: I remember your image, Bruce, and thought of it
arabella Ella: that is a lovely image Bruce
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Bruce Mowbray: ;-) - - - It will work for a while, then something else will emerge.
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Bruce Mowbray: a mandala, perhaps. . . but who knows?
Calvino Rabeni: It's important to trust the emergence
arabella Ella: please keep us posted Bruce :)

Calvino Rabeni: Contemplation has its "greatest hits", one of which is "who am I"

pablito Steampunk: yes who am i, the most difficult question

Calvino Rabeni: So you can do contemplation with anything

Calvino Rabeni: like - an ice cream cone

Calvino Rabeni: And the question would still be "who am i, with this ice cream cone"
Bruce Mowbray: If you can "find" the "hub" or the "wheel," - I'd say that it would be possible to do contemplation with anything.
morgano Bravin: is that what a koan is?,,like an ice cream cone?

Calvino Rabeni: So the ice cream cone is one of the spokes on the wheel
Calvino Rabeni: pointing back to the center

Calvino Rabeni: and the center could be "who am I"

Bruce Mowbray: could be. . . but also possible to through you out to the rim. . .

arabella Ella: the image of the wheel may evoke so many other images and connotations
Calvino Rabeni: What is the center and the edge ... of my life ... is a contemplative question

2010.07.20 19:00 - Take Out the Trash

Eos Amaterasu: Would you like to suggest a framing for the upcoming 90 seconds?
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmmm-m-m-m-mmmm. . . .
Bruce Mowbray: How about, "Take out the trash."
Bruce Mowbray: The past trash.
Bruce Mowbray: The future trash.
Bruce Mowbray: Just be here. Trash-less.

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: How was that?
Bruce Mowbray: for some of the seconds: clear.
Bruce Mowbray: but trash has a way of accumulating again. for me, anyway.
Eos Amaterasu: How do you recognize something to be "trash"?
Bruce Mowbray: How was that for you, Eos?
Bruce Mowbray: If I think that nothing is happening. . .
Bruce Mowbray: then I am unaware that everything is happening.
Bruce Mowbray: and I realize that I must have a head that needs emptying.
Bruce Mowbray: so, "take out that trash. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and make a clear space to see that everything is happening.
Bruce Mowbray: That's one way, for me, anyway.
Eos Amaterasu: I felt almost like an extra annoyance quality at things I was attending to that for some reason didn't feel were right here...
Bruce Mowbray: yes. "annoyance" comes close to is for me, too.
Eos Amaterasu: the fact that I can tell something is trash (?) seems to imply I already have a connection with not-trash
Bruce Mowbray: mmmm, can you say more, Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: trash is called trash in contrast to not-trash, stuff useful to me....
Bruce Mowbray: ok.
Eos Amaterasu: or to say something is distracting can only come from some connection to non-distraction
Eos Amaterasu: that's very encouraging :-)
Bruce Mowbray: mmmmm. During the 90-second break, there is nothing I "need" to do except trust, be inside of, those moments.
Bruce Mowbray: their emptiness, stillness.
Bruce Mowbray: no comparisons.
Bruce Mowbray: no need to understand.
Bruce Mowbray: trust the empty space.

Bruce Mowbray: from the Tao te Ching:
Bruce Mowbray:

We join spokes together in a wheel, but it is the center hole that makes the wagon move.
We shape clay into a pot, but it is the emptiness inside that holds whatever we want.
We hammer wood for a house, but it is the inner space that makes it livable.
We work with being, but non-being is what we use.

Bruce Mowbray: Whoever wrote that did an excellent job of taking out the trash.

2010.07.21 01:00 - A quiet session

Nothing happened.

2010.07.21 13:00 - Now We Know How Many Moles it Takes to Fill the Albert Hall...

morgano Bravin: I sat, caught a handful of passing breeze, kissed it and let it go

Eliza Madrigal: "Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair." Kahlil Gibran

morgano Bravin: that is so true Eliza
arabella Ella: how lovely
Darren Islar is looking at his feet
morgano Bravin: I see you must share some of my thoughts

morgano Bravin: re the catching of the breeze
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Agatha Macbeth: Just blew in from the windy city
Pila Mulligan: ah, the many virtues of air :)

arabella Ella: also sense of touch and feeling
arabella Ella: sensation

Calvino Rabeni: What is the meaning of moles as a topic?

Bruce Mowbray: They are blind - therefore, few "appearances" (visual) for them.
Eliza Madrigal: :::digging:::
Agatha Macbeth: I dig it
morgano Bravin: yes, digging is a good answer

2010.07.21 19:00 - Refuge
 

I see the lamp, the face, the eye,
an altar where the soul bows, a
gladness and refuge. My loving says
"Here. I can leave my personality
here." My reason agrees! "How can
I object when a rose makes the bent
backs stand up like cypresses?" Such
surrender changes everything. Turks
understand Armenian! Body abandons
bodiness. Soul goes to the center.
Rubies appear in the begging bowl.
But don't brag when this happens.
Be secluded and silent. Stay in
the delight, and be brought the
cup that will come. No artfulness.
Practice quiet and this new joy.
-Rumi

(Eliza, posting a blank session)