01-03 - Some Altered Reality Until

(Scribe in Progress, by Eliza)

Fael Illyar: I've found some anger, perhaps even hatred, bubbling up lately.
Eliza Madrigal: hatred?
--BELL--
Fael Illyar: Yes, I'm not sure where it came from exactly, though.
Eliza Madrigal: So you don't identify it with one time or person or situation exactly...
Eliza Madrigal: just sense that it is coming up to be seen.. maybe let go?
Fael Illyar: no... or well, many were in my mind briefly while it was happening.
Fael Illyar: nothing I could call hatred in a couple of days now though
Fael Illyar: but anger yes
Eliza Madrigal nods... I think I understand a little of what you mean... when emotions come they often come in a bundle
Fael Illyar: and yes, it does feel like letting go
Fael Illyar: was a particular fear that I reacted in a quite different way this time.
Fael Illyar: instead of hoping it would end, I went to lie down on my bed and dived into it.
Eliza Madrigal: !
Fael Illyar: was quite a rough ride :)

Every time I open my eyes I see a you and me.
Even when I close my eyes you and I continue to exist,
because these eyes and this mind are conditioned
to separate what really exists as one.

The you that I see is everything that I am not.
The me that I see is always a familar stranger
catching himself looking
into the cosmic mirror of life.

The me that you see is the me that you think
I am and the me that I reflect from the mirror.
If we crawl much deeper into this cosmic space,
all lines between us give way to something singular
that exceeds whatever you or I represent
separately or together.

In this space you and I cease to exist.
For in this space, nothing exists
no you or me separate from anything else.

And in this space you and I surrender
all form and conditioning.
And there we rest us one. we will meet again.

-Bowie
~~

    arabella Ella: today is my first anniversary (and Mick's too) at PaB ... I came across the chat log and it was 01/03
    Eliza Madrigal: Happy Anniversary! I thought you two were around way before me....
    Agatha Macbeth: You should hold hands then
    arabella Ella smiles
    arabella Ella: thanks!
    Mickorod Renard: it feels like i have been here years
    Eliza Madrigal: Guess I didn't attend the afternoon sessions so much back then...
    arabella Ella: we were at Kira before here and before that I had visited the tea house
    Agatha Macbeth: Only 16 minutes Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Agreed, Mick... It is a different time altogether "PaB time"
    arabella Ella: and Pema had invited us at Kira to visit PaB
    Mickorod Renard: yes, i remember,,it does seem long ago
    SophiaSharon Larnia: happy anniversary :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Well much has happened...
    Eliza Madrigal: in a blink
    arabella Ella: thanks ... thanks ... excited
    Bleu Oleander: how did you both get to Kira?
    Mickorod Renard: I teleported
    Eliza Madrigal: =P~
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    arabella Ella: the philosophy attracted me ... Pema on phenomenology and Gilles too
~~

doug Sosa: i am just back from guatemala. tigers on my mind.
Benedizione Vita: I see
Benedizione Vita: are there tigers in guatamala?
doug Sosa: feels like it. jaguars, pumas, ..
Benedizione Vita: isn't that interesting
Benedizione Vita: it feels like there are tigers, even though there
are only lions and bears o my
doug Sosa: where is that?
Benedizione Vita: the zoo
Benedizione Vita: but what I mean is, the brain fills in the gap
doug Sosa: ah, we are all behind bars so together.. the power of PaB
is to see that we are inside yet not.

~~

Riddle Sideways: some of the point was putting ourselves into that mindset
Riddle Sideways: the 50's were ending
Bleu Oleander: haven't read it yet
Riddle Sideways: I not read it either
Riddle Sideways: but they were exploring Reality
Riddle Sideways: what it means to question ... everything

Riddle Sideways: it got me thinking about.... (well everything)
Riddle Sideways: but what if you lived in a "normal" mind space
Riddle Sideways: and started to just think differently
Riddle Sideways: and started 'Playing' with the alternatives
Riddle Sideways: mixing Psychology, Arts, Science, Religion

Bleu Oleander: what is a "normal" mind space?

Riddle Sideways: ah, yes that thread
Riddle Sideways: image some highly educated experts in their fields getting together
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: and thinking in a different way
Riddle Sideways: I'm 13 or 14 and the Beatles sing the last song on Revolver about these Harvard/MIT folks and I am blown away
Riddle Sideways: is 4-5 years before I take any drugs at all. Yet my thinking has already gone that way
Riddle Sideways: "Sit back and let your mind flow down stream..."

Riddle Sideways: we try to learn from history, but keep thinking the same ol way, so we repeat what we said we would not
Riddle Sideways: to just park the same ol thinking and go on down the road
Riddle Sideways: Justapose ourselves into some altered reality until that is the reality we ...
Riddle Sideways: make up a new avatar
Riddle Sideways: log onto a new virtual world
Riddle Sideways: know that flying is normal
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: try a new way of thinking
Riddle Sideways: think that it is pretty good
Riddle Sideways: try it in what might be labeled "RL"
Riddle Sideways: some times doing al this new way of thinking doesn't leave
Riddle Sideways: room of the same ol way of doing things

~~
Wol Euler: sorry, I interrupted your discussion. please continue
Eliza Madrigal: Not at all, Wol :)
Storm Nordwind scrolls back and finds almost nothing :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps you would honor us by starting one Wol?
Eliza Madrigal: we worked on that quite a while, too
Eliza Madrigal giggles (kidding)
Qt Core: yeah, just mentioned omniscence, almost nothing ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: funny, i scroll back in my head and find almost nothing
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Storm Nordwind: haha!!!

Eliza Madrigal: Actually I always hesitate to say what I'm going to do.... hard to see beyond my nose some days
Eliza Madrigal: (sorry bell)
Storm Nordwind smiles at a case in point :)
Eliza Madrigal laughs, See! :)

Wol Euler: I found out that HH will be giving a public talk in Zurich in early April, the Sunday before the retreat. I'm tempted to go.

Wol Euler: one must recognize these moments when they happen.
Wol Euler: so if you'll excuse me for a sec, I'll go afk and book a ticket.

~~

Eos Amaterasu: but the mirror can be more
Eos Amaterasu: "Look into the mirror of your mind, Naropa, the mysterious home of the dakinis" - Tilopa
Eos Amaterasu: Much juicier
Calvino Rabeni: the mirror doesn't have much to contribute to life - it is a pure consumer - put two mirrors together, not much happens
Eos Amaterasu: in some traditions, the mirror is the source of all
Eos Amaterasu: the mirror doesn't reflect anything _else_
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Else than what?
Eos Amaterasu: all existence is reflected in itself
Eos Amaterasu: that's it
Calvino Rabeni: except itself - it doesn't allow itself a place in existence then
Eos Amaterasu: at some point it needs negative-speak :-)
Eos Amaterasu: or, there's nothing else than Being
Eos Amaterasu: so no external mirror

~~

    Bolonath Crystal: when i touch somebody i can feel certain disharmonics, but cannot put that sensation into words: for example: before i set an acupuncture needle, i explore the point with my fingers first. the  finger tells me, if there should be a needle or not
    Eliza Madrigal: completely intuitive? empathetic? and do you feel that in 'them' or in 'you'?
    Bolonath Crystal: it pops up in mind without my doing
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm
    Bolonath Crystal: probably that is intuition
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: like a refined 'hunch'
    Bolonath Crystal: but it didn't work like that from the beginning. the fingers had to do some training first
    Bolonath Crystal: well, not the fingers actually
    Bolonath Crystal: the mind
~~

Archmage Atlantis: Why must sleep fit a pattern,,,,only then is it a disorder
Agatha Macbeth: Beats me arch
Eliza Madrigal: Well things like sleep paralysis can be frightening for people Arch
Agatha Macbeth: Yep
Eliza Madrigal: and if our bodies don't get certain kinds of sleep we don't function well
Eliza Madrigal: but I do get your point
Eliza Madrigal: one person needs 5 hrs, another 9... ?
Agatha Macbeth: Pema usually seems to need about 2 :)
Archmage Atlantis: If we refuse the prevailing pattern.....it is a disorder
Eliza Madrigal: hehe. He insists he sleeps longer than that...
Eliza Madrigal: he must be doing crazy math
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: And you believe him?
Eliza Madrigal: hehe... well speaking of beliefs to hold transparently...
Agatha Macbeth: Or transiently....

Eliza Madrigal: So we were talking about dreams, and sex, and beliefs... I wonder what our beliefs about sex and and beliefs and dreams are...
Agatha Macbeth: De we believe about dreaming about sex? :)
Fox Monacular: ouch... such a loaded topic!
Agatha Macbeth: Fire away Fox!
Archmage Atlantis: Well I used to believe we were male or female
Fox Monacular: hmmm... what do you guys think:)
Agatha Macbeth: Aw, she threw a lateral ;-)

Calvino Rabeni: I believe a dream of sex is usually an auspicious dream

Calvino Rabeni: Many phenomena are quite normal
Eliza Madrigal: Sure, yes
Calvino Rabeni: but when out of balance, get a negative attention
Agatha Macbeth: If 'normal' actually means anything....
Calvino Rabeni: that is where they threaten normal social values and relations
Eliza Madrigal nods to Agatha
Fox Monacular: yes, right, it's a combination of socialexpectiations, of our own prejudices and anxieties (or lack of such)
Calvino Rabeni: The extreme cases get the attention
Calvino Rabeni: the moderate cases get ignored
Calvino Rabeni: I'm just pointing out, the bias of social values on how all these experiences are interepreted
Eliza Madrigal: Well, people prob don't think to mention the moderate cases as much, too
Calvino Rabeni: and even defined - whether or not they areseen to exist
Fox Monacular: SP is experienced as a normal thing in Korea where they would teach children how to deal with it, and as a totally spooky alien abduction here, because there is virtually no awarenes
Calvino Rabeni: These are "beliefs" of a certain variety
Archmage Atlantis: No bunnies here today