25-27 - Unstuck

  

Day 25,26,27: Corvuscorva Nightfire

   

In these three days Fael helped get the word out about the new possibilities of the self recorder, and we as a group worked hard on definitions.  I've begun report with the information about the log, wrote a guide to the memes that occured and pulled out several threads I found interesting.  My suggestion is that you use this more like an encyclopedia than a news story...pull out what you find of interest and read more.   Don't miss the new blog suggestion from Wol http://koshtra.blogspot.co or the radio story link that Riddle sharedhttp://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99834201.  Crusty's Koan was of interest, too..if you have a little extra brain space...think about it.Crusty Goldshark: The question is when you sleep how do you know it is you that wakes and when you teleport how do you know a 'you' has been destroyed?

   

   

(from 2009.01.27 01:00 - The Power of Self-Conversation ) If you click on the fountain a menu comes up-you can get a copy of the log after your Guardian meeting if you claim it from the menu!!  Free from time stamps, tsuki's facelight info, and who logged on and off or IM'd you during your session!!  Here's Pema and Fael on how:

Fael Illyar: have you tried claiming the log yet?

Pema Pera: No, I have had no time to look into that yet

Fael Illyar: It's 2 clicks during the meeting :)

Fael Illyar: first left-click on the recorder, then select Claim from the menu it gives.

Fael Illyar: then you'll receive a link to the log in IM once the meeting is over.

Fael Illyar: (that is, when someone Stops the recording, or everyone leaves)

Pema Pera: ah, so I should click before the meeting starts, Fael?

Fael Illyar: Any time during the meeting

Pema Pera: ah, and then I also get the part before I clicked, I mean everything from the beginning

Fael Illyar: yes

Pema Pera: okay, just did that, thank you!

Pema Pera: great, that will make life a lot simpler!

   

Pema Pera: (Fael: when I leave before others leave, I will later get the link to the whole session, even though I was not there all the time, right?)

Fael Illyar: Yes, as long as no one else claims the session

Pema Pera: (very nice, thank you!)

Pema Pera: (well designed!)

  Me, Fefonz, Wol and Fael have mastered the skill, I'll help anyone who wants it, and I bet they will too.

   

   

Several meme's and ideas circle through the Play as Being pavilion between Sunday the 25th and Tuesday the 27th.  I've listed a few below with pointers and exerpts.  I deleted lines that interrupted threads of ideas so if you want the real chat, go to the source.

   

Please note the two pointers to other websites ( http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99834201, http://koshtra.blogspot.com/ , and put on your calender that Adams D will be speaking at Kira

Steve is thinking about love and being...2009.01.27 19:00 - Is Consciousness Pure?

2009.01.25 19:00 - Politics to Religion

Doug has two interesting projects: creating meetings that have power:2009.01.27 19:00 - Is Consciousness Pure? and talking about eros and justice 2009.01.25 19:00 - Politics to Religion

Susi is thinking of an experience of traveling through time with a friend..2009.01.27 07:00 - On Time

2009.01.27 01:00 - The Power of Self-Conversation 2009.01.26 07:00 - The big pileup 

Tarmel searches for a definition of god 2009.01.27 19:00 - Is Consciousness Pure?

Geo leaves us a poem: 2009.01.27 13:00 - Chit Chat Duet

Riddle leaves us a website:  

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99834201

Fael,Artemesia and Neela search for a way of explaining PaB and it's practice: 2009.01.27 19:00 - Is Consciousness Pure?

Wol and Tarmel remind us to be kind to ourselves 2009.01.2513:00 - On the cusp of the future and Wol points us to a wonderful blog,  http://koshtra.blogspot.com/

Maxine leads a discussion about change and hope,  2009.01.2513:00 - On the cusp of the future

Adams explores silence, 2009.01.25 07:00 - Sunday Silence

Crusty explores the nature of being through teleportation...which...I suspect was as good a koan as any. 2009.01.26 07:00 - The big pileup

   

2009.01.27 19:00 - Is Consciousness Pure?Susi,Tarmel, Celleon, Neela, doug and Stevenaia

   

   

On PAB:

   

Neela Blaisdale: well I think of the exercises as using meditative techniques but with a different framework if that makes sense
Neela Blaisdale: I wouldn't exactly call it a focus but I am concentrating on the feelings and sensations of Being. Which is different in that I don't usually try to concentrate on anything when I meditate

  

   

Doug's got a neat project going:

   

doug Sosa: i am fine but just finished a rush of things, powerpoint, get the fire lit, printing, and finished a painting

  

   

Exploring the definitions of god

   

Blue Taurus: I beleive in the idea that we are the "One" having the dream of the "Many"
Tarmel Udimo: in fact its funny that you asked because this morning I was looking up Adi Shankara, an Indian philosopher who consolidated the doctrine of Advaita Vedanta, a sub-school of Vedanta.

Blue Taurus: I'm familiar with that, but have been reading Balsekar
Tarmel Udimo: I was searching for a definition of 'god'
Blue Taurus: A Duet of One
***

Blue Taurus: If God were the Ocean, we are waves on the ocean
Blue Taurus: Destined to merge back into the ocean
Squee: Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Blue Taurus: Pure consciousnes is the "I Am" realization

  

   

   

And adding the concept of love

   

stevenaia Michinaga: there is just Consciousness, there is just Being
Tarmel Udimo: yes i guess i was looking for another description besides the ocean one
stevenaia Michinaga: there is just love
Tarmel Udimo: which is neither pure or unpure
stevenaia Michinaga: seems to be so
Susi Alcott: I 'got it'; this 'pure consciousness' to mean Love...
Tarmel Udimo: consciousness = love is a way for human's to connect emotionally with a state of being which is essentially emotionless
Susi Alcott: hm...may I disagree ...
Tarmel Udimo: please do susi ;-)
Blue Taurus: the path of love, or Bhakti, is a doorway to the Maha experience
Susi Alcott: what you was speaking about is not love...


Blue Taurus: I like to think of myself as a container to be filled with God
Blue Taurus: sometimes I'm not so open, others more so.
Blue Taurus: It's hard to talk about, because I only have that experience when my mind is quiet
Tarmel Udimo: so it could be more a matter of already being filled with god
Tarmel Udimo: and learning how to stay open to that reality at all times
Tarmel Udimo: whether being quiet or not


our sensation of that has an effect on neurochemicals to make us "high" with love
Susi Alcott: those motions are not love
Susi Alcott: love does not either take to high = imo
Susi Alcott: grace
Susi Alcott: imo love is not the way...
Susi Alcott: the way is movement
Susi Alcott: sure I may miss now something for my lag in english
stevenaia Michinaga: say more about movement
Blue Taurus: what we think of as "love" here in this plane, is only a faint shadow of the real thing
Tarmel Udimo: yes I think that was my point that we all have different pathways to discover the reality of what is, for some it is what we call love - an emotion that eventually transcends and becomes devotion and then actual merging with the one bliss.
Susi Alcott: of the real love you mean ?
Blue Taurus: I think of bliss as a kind of sweet ecstasy
stevenaia Michinaga: but isn't bliss a state of body, where love is beyond the body
Susi Alcott: as I understood your sentence so that you ment the movement, which makes people to connect each other for motions
Susi Alcott: missing to be with
Susi Alcott: for example
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Susi Alcott: will to take care of
Susi Alcott: will to help
Blue Taurus: I think , joy, happyness, delight

Blue Taurus: I think it is hard to talk about these concepts without first defining things to everyone's satisfaction
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Susi Alcott: they are devine motions that makes us 'high'

  

2009.01.27 13:00 - Chit Chat Duet

   

A poem left by Geo

   

((** All Is Well
Whate'er you dream, with doubt possessed,
Keep, keep it snug within your breast,
And lay you down and take your rest;
And when you wake, to work again,
The wind it blows, the vessel goes,
And where and whither, no one knows.
'Twill all be well: no need of care;
Though how it will, and when, and where,
We cannot see, and can't declare.
In spite of dreams, in spite of thought,
'Tis not in vain, and not for nought,
The wind it blows, the ship it goes,
Though where and whither, no one knows.
Arthur Hugh Clough **))

  

    

   

2009.01.27 07:00 - On Time

   

Susi told a story about a friend and he moving through time..explore it with him in three logs..this one Pile up and Self Conversation

   

   

Susi Alcott: "We indeed are now in the right place, right time, and doing the right things for the huge reasons"

Riddle Sideways: In the little bit I have played with time it seems very confusing to jump big spans
Riddle Sideways: so I stopped jumping (or trying to) time spans
Riddle Sideways: but, I do work on speeding up and slowing down time
Riddle Sideways: It helps a lot in many situations
Susi Alcott: my friend; what I can say with words now, is that my heart started to beat 'one hundred and ten'
Riddle Sideways: small example can be shown with juggling
Riddle Sideways: when juggling there is the rushing feeling
Riddle Sideways: the perceived need for speed
Riddle Sideways: but that makes things worse
Riddle Sideways: being calm and slowing the speed of time is better
Riddle Sideways: the balls go up and down in a slower more controlled way

Susi Alcott: so you understand that time is energy
Riddle Sideways: yes, and more

  

   

   

   

2009.01.27 01:00 - The Power of Self-Conversation

   

   

    

Artemisia explained her current practice

   

Artemisia Svoboda: the many resistances that come up when doing the 9-sec exercise
Pema Pera: that's a great practice, Art!  
Artemisia Svoboda: Recently I tried to explain to friends who know nothing about this exercise or about SL
Pema Pera: and how did they react, Artemisia?
Artemisia Svoboda: Well, they were mainly good listeners which was beneficial for the practice of trying to articulate the resistances
Fael Illyar: Yes, we tend to be able to articulate better when we're explaining to someone else :)
Artemisia Svoboda: Hello
Fael Illyar: (well, at least holds for me and several friends)
Pema Pera: I think it holds for all of us, Fael :)
Susi Alcott: he was a newbie; hardly been here before
Pema Pera: Art, what were the main resistances that you discovered?
Artemisia Svoboda: - numer one: the fear that interrupting whatever I am doing will make it hard to get back to it after the 9 secs
Artemisia Svoboda: but it is just a fear
Artemisia Svoboda: not grounded in any real experience of it happening
Artemisia Svoboda: an number two: the elusiveness of the PaB sentence
Fael Illyar: there is a PaB sentence?
Artemisia Svoboda: Appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation of being
Pema Pera: ("by Being", I would say, as the last two words :-)
Pema Pera: (sorry to be nitpicking :)
Artemisia Svoboda: the slipperiness of the concepts "presence", "appearance", "Being" makes me... impatient
Pema Pera: yes, the idea is to let it grow on you
Artemisia Svoboda: yes
Pema Pera: to let Being present the sentence and its meaning
Fael Illyar: most likely won't happen in a day. It might but very unlikely.
Artemisia Svoboda: and probably also, along the way, look my impatience into the eye!

(I picked out a single thread out of a woven conversation here..read the original for the full conversation)
Fael Illyar: It's quite liberating to see the impatience, fear, hope and other things but not be bothered by it
Artemisia Svoboda: Fael, I haven't responded to your contribution a few minutes ago
Artemisia Svoboda: about the liberating aspect of seeing your own impatience etc
Artemisia Svoboda: Just wondering if your statement came out of something you experienced in the context of the 9-sec exercise
Fael Illyar: well, there too but it's starting to be part of everything I do.
Fael Illyar: It's hard to describe as anything but being peaceful or calm.
Fael Illyar: even with fears, impatience and other things floating about in my mind.
Artemisia Svoboda: which is already a great description
Artemisia Svoboda: is there some type of conversion with yourself involved
Artemisia Svoboda: to let this happen?
Artemisia Svoboda: I mean
Fael Illyar: no, conversation would be something floating about. It has nothing to do with the peace.
Fael Illyar: you could also call it awareness.
Artemisia Svoboda: I know, this is not the type of thing we can "make happen"
Fael Illyar: yes, we an only step out of the way and let it happen :)
Fael Illyar: trying to make it happen is standing in the way :)
Artemisia Svoboda: exactly, and what I am looking for are more precise words for this "stepping out of the way"
Fael Illyar: If I had any, I'd use them :)
Artemisia Svoboda: but I don't know if even looking for more precise words is already too much doing
Artemisia Svoboda: or if, on the contrary, it can be helpful
Artemisia Svoboda: if seen as a process
Fael Illyar: anything can be helpful
Fael Illyar: the question is just how much.
Artemisia Svoboda: and perhaps, in the same way, anything can become a further obstacle
Fael Illyar: yes, if you focus on any single thing, it tends to become an obstacle, sooner or later
Artemisia Svoboda: and if you are totally unfocused it doesn't help either
Fael Illyar: Yes, I'd say the key is fluid focus
Artemisia Svoboda: oh, I like that expression
Fael Illyar: not stuck anywhere but fluid
Fael Illyar: that's what makes things become obstacles, when your focus gets stuck in them

  

   

2009.01.26 07:00 - The big pileup

   

   

Crusty Goldshark: The question is when you sleep how do you know it is you that wakes and when you teleport how do you know a 'you' has been destroyed?
Susi Alcott: because it assumes the both; to stay as 'I', and to lost 'I', and both are not possible
Crusty Goldshark: In yogacara Buddhism the world is created in each moment - it is also I suspect destroyed
Corvuscorva Nightfire: not destroyed...not
Corvuscorva Nightfire: just not
Susi Alcott: or prefere, that 'you' are destroyed; then one can not know anything anymore because the 'I' has gone
Crusty Goldshark: there is only a present. When you are not conscious you cease to exist - existence is dependent on consciousness - but are entitiies of self entangled across dimensions?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: not created..is
Corvuscorva Nightfire: just is
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I mean..I don't know anything aobut buddhism..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but...my sense of what that could mean is that there is no destroyed or created
Susi Alcott: you can still know about yourself
Corvuscorva Nightfire: jsut is and isn't.
Fael Illyar: forget about not knowing things, just speak of what you do know :)
Crusty Goldshark: Well in Hinduism Shiva dances and destroys and creates eternally . . .
Crusty Goldshark: Yin and Yang
Susi Alcott: Shiva does not destroy any god-spirts, cuz such life is eternall
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods....but eternal suggests time..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: not time..jsut is and isn't?
Susi Alcott: does it ?
Crusty Goldshark: Some would say time does not exist
Crusty Goldshark: It is a mental abberation
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..yeah..lots of people here, I gather.
Susi Alcott: in a way that is that eternall do not hold any time; it's timeless
Susi Alcott: but that is not what I ment
genesis Zhangsun: I might suggest that this idea of destruction/creation is about loosening up our idea that the world and ourselves are solid when it is really a fluid and ever changing thing. So the self in this view is also fluid and everychanging and therefore not really there at all in the way we typically understand the self
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Susi Alcott: I ment that eternall life which has been born, dont ever die
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think you're right, Gen..
Crusty Goldshark: sound about right gen
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that it's a step to understanding.
genesis Zhangsun: so of there is "no self" in the way we understand it what happens when we wake and what happens when we teleport doesn't really change anything because there was no self to start with
genesis Zhangsun: *if there
Corvuscorva Nightfire head bobbles.
Sky Szimmer: teleport? please explain this term in this context
Fael Illyar: Crusty is pondering about real life teleporting.
Susi Alcott: to travel throught dimensions or to travel in time
genesis Zhangsun: part of Crusty's question: and when you teleport how do you know a 'you' has been destroyed?
Crusty Goldshark: OK in two instances of being (teleport accident - are you double conscious - bi-location or single?
Sky Szimmer: oh, like moving or walking?
Susi Alcott: so; in case 'you' is destroyed; there is no mory any 'you' to be able to know anything
Susi Alcott: but in case such spirit shall teleport, which is 'god-spirit' as I call = eternall life
Corvuscorva Nightfire: in teleportation...of say little bits of energy/matter..real life...the theory is that an exact copy is made in a second location at a specific time, and the first copy is destroyed.
Susi Alcott: such kind of 'you' shall just know that he/she is not destroyed
Sky Szimmer: who is you and who is godspirit
Crusty Goldshark: In a sense we are in two places her - RL and SL - would something more intense occur with two 'real you's'
Crusty Goldshark: ?
Susi Alcott: so; he/she never even asks such; he/she 'just knows'
Corvuscorva Nightfire: no...crusty...the second you is just a copy...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but it's exact.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's exactly how it is each moment.
Sky Szimmer: hmm. i don't understand this teleport concept that you seem to be referring to
Sky Szimmer: as far as i can tell, either i am here or there
Sky Szimmer: but i guess if i am daydreaming, i can be here and some tropical island

  

   

2009.01.26 01:00 - About meditating and crises

   

Wol Euler: we are like that illustration of the paired snakes chasing each other, swallowing the other's tail
Wol Euler: true, it's my radiant personality
Tarmel Udimo: the infinity sign?
Wol Euler: I was thinking rather of a ... dunno, a logo perhaps. A circle, each half of which was a snake curling around to swallow the other's tail
Wol Euler: our two timezones chasing each other around the surface of the planet

Tarmel Udimo: howvere I have been experiencing a minor spiritual crisis lately
Wol Euler: you have been making vague noises about that in IM, yes. I'm sorry that I didn't push harder. Do you want to talk about it now?
Tarmel Udimo: nothing out of the ordinary for me
Wol Euler: spiritual crises?
Wol Euler: mm?
Tarmel Udimo: its the questioning mind that I need to not allow me to descend into seeing the darkness in the light
Wol Euler struggles to unpack that sentence
Tarmel Udimo: ahhh when one uses intellect to understand something that can't be understood

Tarmel Udimo: well thanks good we have years and lifetimes to get it right... :-)
Wol Euler: mmhmm :)
Tarmel Udimo: but then one wants more/expects more from oneself and hence the spiritual crisis moment
Wol Euler: yep, very true.
Wol Euler: that is one useful thing htat I did take away from the 100 Days experience: Not to punish myself for "failing" when I missed a session or couldn't get into a good mindstate, just get up and dust off and start again
Tarmel Udimo: yes one tries to remember that
Wol Euler: like a child learning to walk. How far would they get if each time they fell, they said "Damn I am so stupid. Why do I keep making such foolish mistakes"?
Wol Euler: yet we say that to ourselves constantly
Wol Euler: (for certain values of "we" and "constantly")

  

   

Wol Euler: http://koshtra.blogspot.com/

   

2009.01.25 19:00 - Politics to Religion

doug Sosa: then i have been invited to talk in a class on :love and justice" about the role of eros??

stevenaia Michinaga: how do love and justice relate

doug Sosa: hey? that is what the students are trying to figure out.

stevenaia Michinaga: lol

doug Sosa: seems intuitively correct but..

stevenaia Michinaga: you would expect love to relate to many things

doug Sosa: yes, but here a more direct flow. justice seems related to fairness and compassion. eros adds another dimension.

   

Pila Mulligan: yoga teaches the relation between breathing and movement

Pila Mulligan: in part

Pila Mulligan: tai chi seems to take it a step further

Pila Mulligan: maybe tai chi is the relation between breathing and health :)

   

stevenaia Michinaga: I find when I play the Digerdoo the breathing has a wonderful impact on me

stevenaia Michinaga: sound and breathing

Pila Mulligan: the few times I have heard the instrument have sensed a magical aspect to it :)

Pila Mulligan: magic in the sense of breath and energy

Pila Mulligan: and sound, of course

stevenaia Michinaga: you create a continuous breath called circular breathing so the sound doesn;t stop

Pila Mulligan: yep, referred to in some tai chi styles as the small heavenly circle

   

2009.01.2513:00 - On the cusp of the future

Maxine Walden: Hope indeed. Guess we all have seen the pics from around the world of so much hope

Maxine Walden: re 20th Jan

Tarmel Udimo: well people, nations have been dreaming of a leader with all this potential for a long time so it was bound to manifest at some point

Tarmel Udimo: perhaps we are all shocked that the collective unconscious was able to actually do it

Wol Euler: :)

Riddle Sideways: so if you dream long enough and hard enough

Wol Euler: if enough people want something badly enough ...

Tarmel Udimo: obama I think has will go way behind the black white thing

Tarmel Udimo: *beyond

Tarmel Udimo: i think this is how we manifest on the planet collectively

Maxine Walden: wouldn't be really wonderful if everyone can pull together to make this world a better, more harmonious place for everyone

   

And we seem to be coming back to realizing that human nature changes far more slowly than technologies 

Wol Euler: I think we as people will change much less than the technologies around us

Riddle Sideways: sadly, many human nature things will still be the same

Wol Euler: we will still struggle with insecurities and fears and perceived and real lacks.

Riddle Sideways: what do you want to eat?

Riddle Sideways: what is the weather today?

Riddle Sideways: are you going out looking like that?

   

Tarmel Udimo: I think all that will be there but we have no idea the effect of living in SL for instance for 50 yearsRiddle Sideways: has anybody seen my transporter keys

   

Maxine Walden: I was reading the other day that one of the things that differentiates humans from other primates, such as chimps, is the size of that part of the brain which is linked with capacity for restraint...thought that was interesting

  

NPR's weekend edition had a rather nice piece on after the sunday puzzle.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99834201

"I love the challenge of having to think like a killer whale," Deecke says. 
"You know, having to strip your biases as a terrestrial, visually based 
mammal and . understand what life might be like for an animal that lives in 
a 3-dimensional world where vision is not very useful, where sound travels 
for large distances."

I can't find the other text to quote here.  There was something toward the 
end about other people might not understand the obsession to wait long 
periods of time for an intense experience.
However, don't we all have some speciality, hobby, fetish, etc. that we live 
and breathe so deeply, that we can see through the eyes of a (Orca, spoon, 

astronomer, artist, program code, kitten, Being, a Beatle or whatever). 

   

   

2009.01.25 07:00 - Sunday Silence -Adams no one there

   

2009.01.25 01:00 - Smalltalk is also good Susi, Stargate, Moon, Fael-largely techie.

Moon Fargis: oookay so the listenenr.. i have to press claim now right ?

Fael Illyar: you can just stop it, claim is only for when you won't be around when the session stops