10-12 - Seeing is Enough

Genesis Zhangsun was the scribe for 10,11,12. 

The theme of "seeing as enough" means for me that seeing can be viewed both as means on our spiritual path (the process of awareness) as well as the end of our spiritual path (awareness as an end in of itself.)  The various excerpts below bring this issue home  in very intensely personal contexts and also in a more general/universal sense.

The process of awareness is both what allows our investigation to take place, the means, and at the same time the end of the investigation. In my humble opinion the "point" of self awareness is awareness and any other "point" you can locate reveals more self identifications and attachments.  This is because the “process” of awareness is not really a process, ehich I believe Stim has alluded to if not directly stated, and it is not about becoming something or not something.  It is not about conquering the self, eliminating the self, neither is it about merging with Being, or dissolving into Being. Self awareness does not belong to the self, there is no self, so it is awareness simply for the sake of awareness. This awareness I think is what we refer to as Being, or emptiness, or for others Buddha nature. The activity itself of awareness has a presence of its own, and my intuition is that it is this presence that is enlightened rather than the self.  Perhaps this is why some traditions like the Zen tradition have such a big emphasis on just sitting, because the activity, taking the posture is the activity of enlightenment, of completeness and the more you engage with it the more you actually open up to its presence and embody it.

And yet it is not as simple as just that.  It is not as simple as the activity is enlightened so you should do nothing. The more the self has the earnest intent to engage the activity, the more it embodies that activity, and the more everything around it begins to appreciate and benefit from its quality. So it is about the struggle, the willingness to dive into the investigation itself, to refine it and cultivate it.  This is the spirit of intentionality required for the spiritual path, which Solobill brought up awhile back, it is the intent to engage enlightenment, not the intent to actually atain it that is required. For me it is about beginning with a firm commitment to respect my own nature and to pursue that respect in an uncompromising and persistent way. To pursue that respect and not my nature, to pursue the means and not the end.  To be nothing less than what I am truly am. It is that intent to engage a higher awareness that allows me to see more clearly who that "I" truly is. My intention to see and the seeing itself is really and truly enough.

I see that uncompromising and earnest intent to be aware, recognizing that seeing truly is enough, in so many of these coversations.  Perhaps you will too.  I hope you enjoy these snippets gleaned from these three days.

2009.03.10 01:00 - On Silence http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...0_-_On_Silence

Scathach Rhiadra: has anyone anything they want to discuss?
Wester Kiranov: not really, thanks
Scathach Rhiadra: it is a quiet hour everywhere:)
Bertrum Quan: yes.
Bertrum Quan: the nature of silence. that could be a topic to consider.
Scathach Rhiadra: ha, but we would have to break the silence to discuss it, destroy by analysis:)

The observation of silence is enough, in fact to go beyond seeing to analysis breaks the silence, destroys the very thing you want to understand.

Bertrum Quan: I wonder if anywhere in the universe absolute silence exists.
Wester Kiranov: not in a physical way. But isn't silence the space that sound happens in?
Bertrum Quan: That's an interesting way to look at it.

2009.03.10 07:00 - Time goes here http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...Time_goes_here

Riddle Sideways: 30 years ago I started programing operating systems
Riddle Sideways: I was in charge of producing characters
Riddle Sideways: I made pixals/dots into the letter A
Riddle Sideways: then we built more characters
Riddle Sideways: we put that software into libraries
Riddle Sideways: so nobody had to write those routines again
Riddle Sideways: but could use them to build higher forms
Riddle Sideways: eventually we could build SL
Riddle Sideways: and I could stand upon SL and chat of things that matter
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble looks at all the characters
Geo Netizen: Yes ... we encapsulate complexity
Riddle Sideways: yes, we are all characters
Adams Rubble: hehe
Riddle Sideways: yet all same

Thanks Riddle :)

2009.03.10 13:00 - Arising and arosing http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...ng_and_arosing

Fefonz Quan: maybe observing our responses is the most important tool in understanding who we are
Fefonz Quan: what make us click

2009.03.10 19:00 - is God Love? http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...is_God_Love%3f

Tarmel Udimo: yes 'Being' in love rather than just being in love
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, yes, but I see it more as love the projector in an outward way, not "in love" with something
stevenaia Michinaga: the love that makes someone else smile
Tarmel Udimo: yes understand I think that's what I mean
stevenaia Michinaga: the disarming "I love you", not the posessive "I am in love with you"
stevenaia Michinaga: the love that lets the bird out of the cage to fly freely
Tarmel Udimo: yes, or for that matter 'loving you':-)
Tarmel Udimo: no 'I' involved
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Tarmel Udimo: or just 'loving'
Tarmel Udimo: but it is fun to say 'I love you'
stevenaia Michinaga: hard to say that w/o smiling
Tarmel Udimo: yes

  Pila shares different ways of "seeing"  (Taoist and Buddhist v. Hindu)

Pila Mulligan: so Chinese philosophers said lets contemplate all of reality
Pila Mulligan: evertything that is
Pila Mulligan: and they symbolized it with an empty circle they called wu chi
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pila Mulligan: and in the highest state of consciousness one simply sees all that is
Pila Mulligan: exactly as it is
Pila Mulligan: and that is the ulitmate reality
Pila Mulligan: undistorted perception of all that is
Pila Mulligan: but the mind is a greedy bugger, and busy
Pila Mulligan: and the mind likes to do things, name things, rationalize
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pila Mulligan: so we need to feed the mind with more ideas
Pila Mulligan: and so they took a line and divided the circle called wu chi with a line calle tai chu tu
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pila Mulligan: the division created two parts that they called yin and yang
Pila Mulligan: and from yin and yang they described everything the mind wanted, in words and concepts
Pila Mulligan: but behind it all is simply the undivided whole of reality -- wu chi in Chinese

  later...

Pila Mulligan: here is a story

Pila Mulligan: it is about a sadhu and a boddhisatva
Tarmel Udimo: okay
Pila Mulligan: it illustrates the difference between those words
Pila Mulligan: a sadhu is a Hindu term for an enlightned being
Pila Mulligan: bodhisatva is a buddhist term for an enlightened being
Pila Mulligan: these two are crossing the desert
Pila Mulligan: they get lost
Pila Mulligan: it is very hot and they think they will die
Pila Mulligan: they are crawling along and they see a mirage
Pila Mulligan: but as they approach it they realize it is actually an oasis
Pila Mulligan: surrouonded by a wall
Pila Mulligan: they climb up to the top of the wall
Pila Mulligan: inside is a beautiful place, ponds, trees, birds a very nice location
Pila Mulligan: the sadhu climbs down inside the wall
Pila Mulligan: the bodhisatva climbs down outside to go out to the desert to tell others that it is there
Tarmel Udimo: nice story pila
Pila Mulligan: that shows the difference between those words
Pila Mulligan: but they both saw the same thiing
Pila Mulligan: and the idea of bringing others there is close to the idea of affirming reality
Tarmel Udimo: ahhhh

2009.03.11 13:00 - Anyone I Can't See Yet http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...an%27t_See_Yet

Pema Pera: so yes Wester, time space knowledge: here is everywhere, now is everywhen, me is everybody -- but that can be very misleading when said so succinctly; alternative and more precise formulation: no duration, no separation, no self
Wester Kiranov: wow

2009.03.12 01:00 - Inner Peace and PaB http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/..._Peace_and_PaB

Bertrum Quan: How did the pheono exercises trigger a crisis?
Tarmel Udimo: i was already heading that way, always asking why.... I can get a bit manic around why Being is Being???? For which there is no answer of course, except perhaps that Being can and enjoys the play of it all
Tarmel Udimo: and some of the exercises kept taking me to a place where I only saw the emptiness, the meaninglessness of it all
Tarmel Udimo: not a good seeing:-)
Bertrum Quan: That's very powerful to feel... see...

later...

Bertrum Quan: But every morning and evening you do a longer meditation?
Tarmel Udimo: no, 5-15mins
Tarmel Udimo: and often not sure what they are
Tarmel Udimo: i am realizing more and more that it is intention that is important
Tarmel Udimo: the intention to sit and doing it
Tarmel Udimo: of course there are some mornings I am running late and don't, there are some eveings I am buggered and don't but I ignore whether I have or not and just keep doing it
Tarmel Udimo: I think this principle can be used with the 9-secs as well:-)
Bertrum Quan: Yes, there are many paths.
Tarmel Udimo: yes I no longer even try to be on a path and just do:-)

2009.03.12 13:00 http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...a_%232%3a_YSBS

Wol Euler: I have been ignoroing a problem for some 18 months now, which is growing larger and uglier as I ignore it. The longer I leave it, the less able to deal with it I feel.
Mickorod Renard: lol,,whats that?
Wol Euler: it seems quite hopeless sometimes, when I am being me. Just don't know where to start, cannot see any point where I might grasp it in order to begin.
Wol Euler: Not-me looked at it and saw clearly how I might begin to fix it.
Wol Euler: calmly and without any of the angst and fear and frustration that "I" feel when thinking about it.
Wol Euler: Maybe I can do this now.
Fefonz Quan: remarkable, thanks for sharing that wol
Wol Euler smiles
Pema Pera: that's really wonderful, Wol, and thank you so much for sharing that with us
Pema Pera: must not be easy to talk about . . .