2017.05.29 13:00 - WoLE Session: A Room Full of Dancers

The Guardian for this  The Wisdom of Lived Experience - Views from Psychoanalysis, Neuroscience, Philosophy and Metaphysics meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who has posted early greetings at the bottom of the log for clarity. If you'd like to hear about 'floating', look there. :)

Beginning

Eliza Madrigal: So, has everyone caught up with reading?
Aphrodite Macbain: hardly a cloud in the sky
Bruce Mowbray: Yep.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bleu Oleander: yep
Aphrodite Macbain: but I'm not sure I understand it all
Agatha Macbeth: Er
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm behind yet again :) will listen today :)
Bruce Mowbray: (a difficult section, this one)
Eliza Madrigal: no worries at all Cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Tura Brezoianu: yes
Eliza Madrigal calls for reports

morgano Bravin: i read but my report is as usual to explain I am confused
Eliza Madrigal grins
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Mick/Morgano.
morgano Bravin: but glad to give it
Eliza Madrigal: please do
Bruce Mowbray: Please do.
Aphrodite Macbain: great
morgano Bravin: ok
morgano Bravin: break the ice
Aphrodite Macbain: thank you
Aphrodite Macbain: you can melt it

morgano Bravin: Like the previous sessions and sections in this book I feel I am climbing a mountain and I am not a good climber. I am convinced that reaching the summit will be well worth it and the discoveries enroute enlightening. I just feel a bit ..erm humbled by not being able to offer any useful insights.
morgano Bravin: This section I found myself thinking we had moved away from hallucinations due to the lack of the term used but further on realized that convictions or similar words can also be included.
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
morgano Bravin: I found myself at a loss to relate to my own life experiences (to make up my own vigniette) at first but then managed to turn it around a little and see how some past events were effected by a mix of my convictions and other'objects' viewpoints or ministrations.
morgano Bravin: Confronting folk that may be struggling with issues similar to those mentioned in the text is surely not productive and maxines understanding she has conveyed has for me been an eye opener that i hope will make me a more understanding and tollerating person.
morgano Bravin: done
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks! That was very valuable
Bruce Mowbray: TY, Morgano.
morgano Bravin: ty
Eliza Madrigal: yes it is Morgano
Eliza Madrigal: nice way with the material

Eliza Madrigal: Hi San
morgano Bravin: Hi san
Santoshima Resident: hi, sorry late. pls continue
Aphrodite Macbain: waves at San
Eliza Madrigal: Is someone else ready to jump in?
Bleu Oleander: hi San
Bruce Mowbray: I'm ready.
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, San.
Bruce Mowbray: shall I go ahead with my report?
Eliza Madrigal: yes great Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: go for it Bruce
morgano Bravin: please
Bruce Mowbray: kk.

Bruce Mowbray: This section from WoLE is solely concerned with pathological hallucination.
Bruce Mowbray: The term “hallucinosis” typically denotes delusional symptoms (hallucinations) with a disease origin.
Bruce Mowbray: As a counterpoint to this, I especially enjoyed Oliver Sacks’ World Science Festival documentary:
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T_XimPe4xU
Bruce Mowbray: Sacks says that most persons who have experienced hallucinations would not want to take medications or go through psychotherapy to end them. . . .
Bruce Mowbray: …preferring NOT to end their hallucinations by a factor of 100 to 1 !
Bruce Mowbray: One of his patients even refused to take her anti-seisure meds because she could not hallucinate if she took it.
Bruce Mowbray: Sacks also thinks hallucinatory experience is probably “adaptive” – that it serves survival.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Bruce Mowbray: I’ve enjoyed musing about ways this would work.
Bruce Mowbray: I have experienced several hallucinations during my lifetime – a few quite recently.
Agatha Macbeth: A-musing
Bruce Mowbray: I have no diagnosis of psychosis – nor were my hallucinations the result of psychotropic drugs; nor were they unpleasant.
Bruce Mowbray: All were entirely out of my control – although I was able to “talk myself” out of them – when I wished to do that.
Bruce Mowbray: I suspect hallucinations are “normal” for most humans – but are quickly denied, remaining unmentioned, probably out of fear of social rejection.
Bruce Mowbray: [done]
Eliza Madrigal: thank you, Bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: yw :)
Agatha Macbeth: Thanks tiger
Aphrodite Macbain: I too enjoyed the Sacks interview. It was very engaging.
morgano Bravin: nice report B thanksruce
morgano Bravin: Bruce ty
Eliza Madrigal: Sacks is engaging indeed
Eliza Madrigal: Aph, report today?
Aphrodite Macbain: Too bad he is no longer with us
Aphrodite Macbain: yes a sort of one
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth sort of listens
morgano Bravin: yes, I only watched one where he mentions charles bonnet and his own issues

Aphrodite Macbain: just some observations and questions
morgano Bravin: listens to Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: This reading expanded the notion of a hallucination

--BELL--

Aphrodite Macbain: to experiences we have when what is espected/hoped for doesn't happen
Aphrodite Macbain: It goes against our perceptions conceptions of what should happen
Aphrodite Macbain: that results in heightened emotions - anger, fear, etc
Aphrodite Macbain: This destabilizing of our hopes and anticipations creates what I think he considers hallucinations.
Aphrodite Macbain: insistence of things being different - because they should be
Aphrodite Macbain: like an idee fixe
Aphrodite Macbain: raw emotion, frustraTION ARE HARD FOR THE HEALER TO DEAL WITH AND REQUIRES STABILITY ON THEIR SIDE
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry
Eliza Madrigal acts as a stable container for Aph's sudden rage... lol
Aphrodite Macbain: but I have a hard time calling this hallucinating
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Eliza Madrigal: (sorry)
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe you're just imagining you're hallucinating?
Aphrodite Macbain: so I find this a bit confusing. At what point is this person hallucinating?
Aphrodite Macbain: done
Aphrodite Macbain: pokes Aggers
Agatha Macbeth: Eek
Tura Brezoianu wishes the caps lock key had been done away with when computer keyboards were invented.
Agatha Macbeth waves to San
Aphrodite Macbain: me too
morgano Bravin: I relate well with that Aph, ty and I would also like to say, when folk are under such duress they often have other issues to deal with on top,,like for eg unable to sleep r not eating
Eliza Madrigal nods, very well said Aph "destabilizing of our hopes and fears"
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Eliza Madrigal: Tura?
Tura Brezoianu: ok


Tura Brezoianu: There was some discussion on Monday about what's meant by "hallucination" here. I got Sacks' book from the library, and so far I've read the first chapter. He talks about hallucinations in what I think is the everyday meaning of the word, perceptions vividly experienced through the physical senses, of things that are not actually there.
Tura Brezoianu: I've never had any of those.
Tura Brezoianu: The person having them generally knows very well that they aren't real, except in cases where there's some larger mental pathology going on, like in schizophrenia.
Tura Brezoianu: But what seems to be meant here is mistaken beliefs experienced as reality, and resistant to verification. Like the example at the end of this section, and the one a few paragraphs later.
Tura Brezoianu: At the beginning of the chapter Maxine defines hallucinations the same way Oliver Sacks does, "sensory stimuli that arise entirely from internal sources", but the examples are of a belief rather than a sensation. So I think she is using the word in a wider sense than her definition.
Tura Brezoianu: That wider concept, of experiencing beliefs as reality, unconscious of their nature as beliefs, is something I can recognise.
Bruce Mowbray: (for sure!)
Tura Brezoianu: Like when we see something strange, that we don't immediately understand...
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Tura
Aphrodite Macbain: this makes sense
Tura Brezoianu: the thing itself appears to us to be strange
Tura Brezoianu: when the strangementt is a fact about our own ignorance of what we're looking at
Tura Brezoianu: *strangeness
Agatha Macbeth: Strangement...nice
Aphrodite Macbain: what about all those emotions?
Tura Brezoianu: and when we discover what the thing is, it seems as if the thing itself has become sensible
Tura Brezoianu: when it was sensible all along.

Tura Brezoianu: One other detail: I'm not sure what the terminology of "K" and "O" is in today's passage, maybe they were talked about earlier in the book?
Tura Brezoianu: (done)
Agatha Macbeth: KO?
Agatha Macbeth: OK?
Aphrodite Macbain: I think earlier
morgano Bravin: thanks Tura, something to think over there
Bruce Mowbray: (knock out?)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, and something I meant to look up before session today! apologies
Tura Brezoianu: "transformataions in K or O"
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh. Don't know.
Aphrodite Macbain: she mentions them earlier
Eliza Madrigal: yes
morgano Bravin: yes, I mused over it ,,understood it and then forgot
Agatha Macbeth: Sounds kinda mathematical
morgano Bravin: i took k as knowledge

Eliza Madrigal: will find it, but it is about the spectrum of how a resistance is worked with
Eliza Madrigal: may not be able to locate until posting the log though
Eliza Madrigal: thanks so much Tura
Aphrodite Macbain: I'll look too
Agatha Macbeth: No rush Liz
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- thanks Tura
Bleu Oleander: loc 1184 ... transformation of K ... a wish to know more
Eliza Madrigal: yay Bleu, ty
Bleu Oleander: tranformation of O ... manifests as an immersion into an emotional experience
Agatha Macbeth: My my
Aphrodite Macbain: emotion rather than rationality
Eliza Madrigal: Bleu ready for report too?
Aphrodite Macbain: the ideal state being rational and in control
Tura Brezoianu: oddly, I never noticed those terms when I first read the passage, only when I was about to give this report. A "negative hallucination"?
Aphrodite Macbain: listens for Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: ! :))
Bleu Oleander: oh ok

--BELL--

Tura Brezoianu listens to Bleu
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Aphrodite Macbain: splashes Bleu
Aphrodite Macbain watches Bleu waving at the sky


Bleu Oleander: I was puzzled by this concept of hallucinations ... but realize it was Bion's use of the terms ... I don't follow much of Bion's work or relate to this as hallucinations
Bleu Oleander: Maxine is summarizing Bion's concepts here I think
Bleu Oleander: his idea was that hallucinatory phenomena was a spectrum of projections involving emotions, a position similar to Solms who Maxine talks about earlier
Bleu Oleander: I'm not that familiar with Bion's work but it seems a bit confusing to me
Bruce Mowbray nods. Agrees.
Bleu Oleander: that's all I have re this section :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) thanks Bleu
Aphrodite Macbain: I wish he were as clear as Sacks in his explanations.
morgano Bravin: nice input Bleu, ty especially for the expln
Eliza Madrigal: San, report today?
Agatha Macbeth nods
Bruce Mowbray: He's obviously working from a the viewpoint of pathology.
Eliza Madrigal: or comments?
Bleu Oleander: yes Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: How about you Eliza?
Bruce Mowbray: San-ji?

Santoshima Resident: uhm, no sadly, haven't read up far enough. have been instead reading Mr Sack's On The Move.
Santoshima Resident: and Bill Hayes. Insomniac City.
Santoshima Resident: both are wonderful
Bruce Mowbray: Great!
Santoshima Resident: and reflecting on a friend
Eliza Madrigal: ah, feel free to add what comes to mind, if anything
morgano Bravin: :)
Santoshima Resident: who has Parkinson's
Bruce Mowbray: Eliza's report?
Agatha Macbeth: :(
Santoshima Resident: and who often hallucinates
Eliza Madrigal listening
Santoshima Resident: due to medications
Santoshima Resident: and effects of the disease
Bruce Mowbray also listens.
Aphrodite Macbain: as a compensatory action San?
Santoshima Resident: he navigates with grace,
Bleu Oleander: I loved Sack's "pharmacological launch pad" ...:)
Santoshima Resident: although it seems quite difficult
Aphrodite Macbain: me too :-)
Santoshima Resident: described coming to yoga class, and seeing a room full of dancers
Santoshima Resident: a room full of dancers
Bruce Mowbray: wow.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Santoshima Resident: he watched them,. and I got to watch him
Santoshima Resident: but i'm sure, not all the halucinations are easily navigated
Santoshima Resident: in a way
Santoshima Resident: his visions have become more vivid
Santoshima Resident: as sensory ability has diminished.
Santoshima Resident: will catch up for next session here.
Santoshima Resident: over
Eliza Madrigal: beautiful report San, thanks
Bruce Mowbray: Great report, San.
Aphrodite Macbain: our sensory brain fills in the blanks as best it can
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks San
morgano Bravin: facinating
Eliza Madrigal: Raffi, thoughts today?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that seems to be what's happening. Agrees with Aph.

Raffila Millgrove: I am reading the latest Dan Siegel called Mind.
Raffila Millgrove: Maxine references him.. but.. this is too new.. it was just published.. so she could't read it.
Raffila Millgrove: there are very good explanations of quauntum physics and explanations of "time".... that are easier to understand.
Raffila Millgrove: tiedinto his website and seminars on using his Wheel for meditation.
Aphrodite Macbain: wheel?
Raffila Millgrove: i gues his wheel gets rave reviews..
Bruce Mowbray loves Siegel's "Wheel" meditation.
Bleu Oleander: what's his explanation of time?
Raffila Millgrove: yeah it's a .. system of meditation. it's on his website and easy to understand.
Raffila Millgrove: it's all tied together in the book.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, excellent.
Eliza Madrigal: it is in one of our earlier sessions too
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Raffila Millgrove: time as a probabbility curve Bleu.
morgano Bravin: yes, we had a picture of it somewhere
Raffila Millgrove: it doesn't "flow".
Raffila Millgrove: supposedly you do the wheel meditation.. then your understandeing of time changes... away from the idea of flow and into one of probability curves. in this way you might be dead but you don't run out of time.
Raffila Millgrove: it is.. very much imatching to how Maxine reports his research/views in her book.. he is just taking to another level in ... seminars and worshops.

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: I am seriously considering writing an essay comparing him to Billy Graham.
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Bruce Mowbray: Here is Siegel's Wheel of Awareness: http://www.drdansiegel.com/resources..._of_awareness/
morgano Bravin: thanks Bruce
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Raffi.
Raffila Millgrove: i know that sounds weird but.. this stuff is really getting to me.. and I feel like the humanistic branch of.. neurobiology as represented by Siegel... well it sort of believes itself to be saving people if that makes sense.
Agatha Macbeth: There's that mandala again
Bruce Mowbray: It makes a LOT of sense!
Eliza Madrigal remembers Sacks referring to some hallucinagenic explorers as "evangelical"
morgano Bravin: maybe raffi you need to run a class on it for us?
Raffila Millgrove: i been listeing to his all my life.. the come to jesus.. wether it was jesus, est, transcendtal mediitation, tantric sex, yatta yatta.. and now theis stuff like is Mindsight Institute.. it's all the same idea.. save each person.. you save the world. i am not into it anymore.
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bleu Oleander: what does it mean to save or be saved?
Raffila Millgrove: it does not harm. the problem is that it doesn't seem to do much good either. seems like it has been going on for ever.
Bruce Mowbray: Save persons from their own suffering, perhaps?
Raffila Millgrove: yes. saving people from their sins, their suffering. whatever.
Bruce Mowbray: Isn't that what psychiatrists and psychologists do?
Aphrodite Macbain: saved from what?
Bruce Mowbray: suffering, Aph.
Raffila Millgrove: its all the same stuff. gosh i even sat thru a whole bunch of Vedanta.
Raffila Millgrove: with a friend. all my life.. me or someone i know i stuyding something that is going to save them.
Bleu Oleander: I doubt we can save anyone from some amount of suffering ... life includes suffering ... its more about how we deal with it when it comes ... at least that's how I think about it
Eliza Madrigal: :) we're coming to the end of session and I'd like to share my own report if okay?
Raffila Millgrove: and i realize that people have been doing this for.. a darn long time. since like forever in recorded history.
Bruce Mowbray: Please do, Eliza.
Aphrodite Macbain: yes please Eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Woot
Aphrodite Macbain: from your pool position
morgano Bravin: great Eliza
Bruce Mowbray listens to Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: I don't want to interrupt reports but we will always have lots of questions. Mine isn't long...
 

Eliza Madrigal: Just to clarify the term from this week's reading...
Eliza Madrigal: "...hallucinoses is the term he (Bion) coined for hallucinations in an otherwise intact personality."
Eliza Madrigal: so although this section is about pathology, it seemed to me to be about not mistaking pathology too quickly...
Eliza Madrigal: and giving this idea of a spectrum, that we can also see in our own responses
Eliza Madrigal: "..Bion came to view hallucinatory phenomena as a spectrum of projections involving emotions, a position which is similar to that of Solms about affective upwellings entailing specific emotional tones (references are given)..."
Eliza Madrigal: the spectrum (O, K, etc referred to earlier) started with a response of curiosity...
Eliza Madrigal: as being a stable response, then smaller (added: shorter) fuses from there...
Eliza Madrigal: the last being described as 'violent' in a manner
Eliza Madrigal: so this part seemed covering similar ground, but again with new colors to add to the reference wheel
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Eliza Madrigal: also wanted to mention in the Sacks talk, the 'indigol
Bleu Oleander: loved that part
Bruce Mowbray loved reference to indigo . . . .
Agatha Macbeth: Indigol?
Eliza Madrigal: story is what I was trying to describe in sallies that start off as intentional but then take on lives of their own    *indigo
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Aphrodite Macbain: the colour indigo
Bruce Mowbray: in Sacks' talk.
Eliza Madrigal: he illustrated it so well, with or without his means
Eliza Madrigal: (done)
Bleu Oleander: he did need his "pharmacological launch pad" though to see indigio :)
Bruce Mowbray: THANK you, Eliza.

Indigo

Tura Brezoianu: I haven't viewed the talk, what was his reference to indigo?
Bruce Mowbray: (also glad you spoke up for yourself before it was too late to give your report.)
Bleu Oleander: he wanted to hallucinate the color indigo
Eliza Madrigal: It is a weird line to find, but we have so many questions that we need 2 hours really!
morgano Bravin: I would like to join Bruce in saying I have had halucinations too, i would be happy to divulge them off wiki should anyone want to know.
Agatha Macbeth wonders why
morgano Bravin: ty Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: should we have an unrecorded session?
Bleu Oleander: interesting that Newton had named indigo and orange as colors of the rainbow

Bruce Mowbray: I will share my most recent hallucination on Thursday.
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Tura Brezoianu: !
Bruce Mowbray: no need to non-record on my account....
Eliza Madrigal: Tura... it is where he describes inducing an intentional hallucination... and the ephemeral nature of trying to reach out to capture it
Eliza Madrigal: really wonderful to hear
Raffila Millgrove: oh good.i can come. i miss a lot of thurs as i am babysitting, but my day this week to sit is wed.. so i look forward to your sharing.
Bruce Mowbray: Wasn't that the drug he said he never wanted to try again?
Eliza Madrigal: Ok so what if we have a partially recorded session Thurs?
Tura Brezoianu: I'd be fascinated to hear that, but I won't be online Thursday. So I shall make do with being fascinated to read the log afterwards.
morgano Bravin: I must read /watch that one Eliza
Raffila Millgrove: (I duno if anyone mentioned this before but.. Sachs in one of his autobiographical books.. he took so many drugs.. during his internship or residency ihn L.A. that he should be dead. he took enormous amounts of drugs. it shocked me.
Eliza Madrigal: well he said he didn't do that anymore Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: Recorded or not makes no nevermind to moi.
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that was it, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: I'll keep a record of the nonrecorded part for you Tura
Tura Brezoianu: I read about that. I had though of Sacks as being this kindly greybeard, and was surprised to read of his dissolute youth :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Raffila Millgrove: LSD in extreme high doses over and over again. and other drugs as well. i grew up with my friends doing this all the time as well, but he was astonding in frequency and quantities.
morgano Bravin: he he

--BELL--

Tura Brezoianu: tx Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: He was a rather amazing fellow.... had all sorts of OCD behaviors - - which I wouldn't call disorders... just compulsions.
Aphrodite Macbain: well he lived till his mid-80s
Bruce Mowbray: Diet, for one.
Santoshima Resident: no face recognition, stood out
Tura Brezoianu: A life well lived
Bruce Mowbray: Time for me to be scraping up supper.
Raffila Millgrove: he couldn't recognize.. people or places. if he saw his secretary at the store.. he wouldn't know her.. he painted his house door red to help him find it.
Bruce Mowbray: THANKS, everyone.
morgano Bravin: wouldnt life be boring if we were all automatons
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye Bruce thank you
Agatha Macbeth: Scrape thee well Brucie
Tura Brezoianu: bye Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bruce, thanks
morgano Bravin: Bye Bruce
Bleu Oleander: bye Bruce
Raffila Millgrove: he was a rather magnificent person that's for sure.
Eliza Madrigal: his sharing them is remarkable, and truly helpful

Standard Hazard

Tura Brezoianu: Something that came up for me from Raffila's comments... That seems to be a standard hazard of discovering something about how the mind works. You turn into a messiah, proclaiming The Truth. Even if you're right, it's easy to go off the rails like that, and so the rightness becomes wrong.
Bleu Oleander: he had me at "the man who mistook ...."
Eliza Madrigal nods
Catrinamonblue Resident: slips away... bye all :)
Raffila Millgrove: good people too. Billy Graham and this Dan Siegel they remind me of each other. very modest.. very goodwell intentioned people with great charisma. leaders. so kind etc.
Eliza Madrigal: bye Cat :)
Aphrodite Macbain: byee Cat
Bleu Oleander: bye Cat
Agatha Macbeth waves
Raffila Millgrove: they seemed so.. similiar to me.
morgano Bravin: bye Cat
Eliza Madrigal: I think it is that there is a model of teaching we're growing out of
Eliza Madrigal: a way of conveying ideas and discoveries
Raffila Millgrove: why do you say that Elixa?
Raffila Millgrove: Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: even now I know so many smart people who feel they must package their knowledge in certain ways to be heard and make it travel
Eliza Madrigal: give certain types of presentations, speak in very 'sure' ways
Aphrodite Macbain: the medium is the messge?
Eliza Madrigal: there are just so many other mediums now

Raffila Millgrove: but that was always so was it not? each person representing their times.. but.. also with this saving.. the suffering. changing the world.
Bleu Oleander: true that we need to pay attention to the way we deliver information
Bleu Oleander: or maybe to the way we manipulate other minds ... as some politicians do :)
Aphrodite Macbain: The fact that he mistook his wife for a hat didnt explain why, but it made us curious
Raffila Millgrove: to me the message is exactly the same.. we're going to look at the world in a different way, then we are going to feel much better and be better people and suffer less and change the world.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: I can see a few angles... sometimes it is truly comforting and helpful to have a sure guide
morgano Bravin: we like hope
Eliza Madrigal: but then maybe if one keeps going the path branches more and more and one can be okay with that
Santoshima Resident: needing to head out, thank you all
Agatha Macbeth: TC San
morgano Bravin: bye san
Eliza Madrigal: bye San :)
Bleu Oleander: sometimes we just want to join a new "us" group
Raffila Millgrove: when the people who want power... want land to have power.. want money to have power. they just go their own way and get it.. the world does not "get better" because individuals are trying some new world view.

morgano Bravin: I am off now too, thansk so much
Agatha Macbeth: Byee
Eliza Madrigal: bye morgano :) thank you!
Aphrodite Macbain: Good discussion everyone. Thank you!
Bleu Oleander: bye Morgano
Raffila Millgrove: ty all. bye bye.
Eliza Madrigal: bye Raffi :) Aph :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Byee all
Bleu Oleander: bye all ... take care
Agatha Macbeth: Have fun
Bleu Oleander: hate to leave my floating hehe
Agatha Macbeth: Be careful out there
Eliza Madrigal: my particular filter of the moment has to do with dualities, so I see that everywhere lol
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Tura, Bleu :) thanks
Tura Brezoianu: goodnight all, see you next Monday I hope
Eliza Madrigal: yes! Monday is Adams presentation
Agatha Macbeth: Sadly I can't be there
Eliza Madrigal: oh no :(
Bleu Oleander: I had a sneak peek ... looks great!!
Eliza Madrigal: I'm excited about it
Bleu Oleander: yes me too
Eliza Madrigal: but thankfully it will be up at least all month Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Mm
Eliza Madrigal: drag Wol to see one day :)
Agatha Macbeth: Catching her is quite a trick
Eliza Madrigal: :)

[edited something I may put back in in a few days]

Puppy :)

Eliza Madrigal: how's puppy Bleu? :))
Agatha Macbeth: Woof
Bleu Oleander: asleep under my desk :)
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Eliza Madrigal: I really want to squish and cuddle her, haha
Bleu Oleander: full of herself ... lots of puppy crazies
Bleu Oleander: she's very squishy
Eliza Madrigal: that's how she looks :))
Bleu Oleander: and a love bug ... until she bites your nose
Eliza Madrigal: aw
Bleu Oleander: forgot how sharp puppy teeth are
Eliza Madrigal: goodness yes
Bleu Oleander: she loves to carry around her toys
Eliza Madrigal: that's so sweet
Bleu Oleander: the first one we've had that did that
Bleu Oleander: so cute
Eliza Madrigal: precious
Bleu Oleander: especially "frosty"
Eliza Madrigal: does she growl if you try to take them?
Bleu Oleander: no
Bleu Oleander: she's pretty ok with sharing :)
Eliza Madrigal: I still get growls from George if I try to take his socks at night

--BELL--

Agatha Macbeth: He wears socks?
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Eliza Madrigal: hoards them
Bleu Oleander: funny
Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: but he goes through toys too fast to carry around, bites them open, etc.
Eliza Madrigal: she doesn't do that?
Bleu Oleander: not yet
Bleu Oleander: just lovingly sucks on them
Eliza Madrigal: awwwww
Agatha Macbeth: Dogs do love to chew things eh
Bleu Oleander: she loves to escape to the backyard with Dino and Frosty
Bleu Oleander: I have the sense she's freeing them
Eliza Madrigal: !
Bleu Oleander: funny
Eliza Madrigal: "be free fair beings!"
Bleu Oleander: yep
Bleu Oleander: very cute
Eliza Madrigal: sounds that way
Bleu Oleander: does beat them up tho when she gets them outside LOL

Agatha Macbeth must be off
Eliza Madrigal: nice outfit Aggers :)
Bleu Oleander: me too
Agatha Macbeth: Be well ladies
Bleu Oleander: take care
Bleu Oleander: byeee
Eliza Madrigal: bye for now :))

Beginning Greetings