2017.12.21 13:00 - A and E causes a dream

The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard. The comments are by Mickorod Renard.

Mickorod Renard: Hi Liz
Mickorod Renard: scating?
Mickorod Renard: skating?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :) YES...lots of skating... listening to : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBkHHoOIIn8
Eliza Madrigal: not sure if that would open for you but, fun song
Mickorod Renard: cool
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: All well?
Mickorod Renard: am trying it now
Mickorod Renard: yes ty,,been rushed lots
Eliza Madrigal: hope this is a time out
Mickorod Renard: looking forward to a holiday
Mickorod Renard: yes, no kids now
Bruce Mowbray: 's current display-name is "Bruce".
Eliza Madrigal: oh?
Mickorod Renard: Hi Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
Mickorod Renard: they have gone to sleep at mum and dads
Bruce Mowbray: Hi!
Eliza Madrigal: party time
Mickorod Renard: yayyy
Eliza Madrigal grins
Eliza Madrigal is going to take a few days away from grown-up-ing
Bruce Mowbray: Party/
Mickorod Renard: I was sort of in party mode at school today
Eliza Madrigal: will do it by playing this song over and over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBkHHoOIIn8
Mickorod Renard: I sat and had lunch with 7 7 year olds
Mickorod Renard: on my table
Eliza Madrigal needs Bruce's yikes gesture for that one
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not sure how I did it all those years... was constantly handling parties in schools, etc
Eliza Madrigal: now just the thought exhausts me
Mickorod Renard: wont open up for me Liz
Eliza Madrigal: bummer.... It is a song by a group called Portugal
Mickorod Renard: yay,,lots of noise
Bruce Mowbray: "Feel It Still"
Aphrodite Macbain: 's current display-name is "Aph".
Eliza Madrigal: yes :) It just sounds fun and different
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aph :) you are emanating
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Aph!
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello everyone
Bruce Mowbray: Aph is snowing!
Bruce Mowbray: 
Mickorod Renard: Hi Aph
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Aphrodite Macbain: We dont have enough snow yet...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: We will soon!
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Aphrodite Macbain: I'll take it off. I cant see you
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, it was the hat
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- it emanates
Aphrodite Macbain: But my head is cold.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Aphrodite Macbain: Let me see what else I have...
Eliza Madrigal: my hat says it emanates but isn't doing so
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it can be turned off?
Mickorod Renard: I dont know how many will turn up today?..ah looks like Ags is coming
Aphrodite Macbain: there
Aphrodite Macbain: that's better and much warmer
Eliza Madrigal is glad her knees never feel cold
Mickorod Renard: I still cannot see Aph
Bruce Mowbray: She's there; trust me.
Mickorod Renard: lovely snow flakes
Aphrodite Macbain: You've been skating Eliza?
Aphrodite Macbain: Im next to Bruce Mick
Mickorod Renard: ah great ty
Bruce Mowbray: She's at my 5:25.
Mickorod Renard: he he
Aphrodite Macbain: I am?
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe 4.
Eliza Madrigal: skated a lot today...
Aphrodite Macbain: where?
Eliza Madrigal: learning a video capture program
Eliza Madrigal: upstairs :)
Mickorod Renard: where did u do that Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha!
Agatha Macbeth: Ho ho ho
Aphrodite Macbain: of course!
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ags
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Aggers
Mickorod Renard: I might have a go later
Eliza Madrigal: San has wintered the 900 level gorgeously
Bruce Mowbray: Cheers, aggers.
Aphrodite Macbain: you have a magnificent skaters outfit
Mickorod Renard: I can see Ags..odd I cant see Aph
Eliza Madrigal: this outfit has a hat but never fits to my head,
Agatha Macbeth: She's there
Mickorod Renard: nice outfit Ags
Eliza Madrigal: maybe that's because of the effects at first? Aph, can you stand and sit?
Aphrodite Macbain: what you're wearing looks fine Eliza
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Eliza Madrigal: did that help Mick?
Mickorod Renard: no
Agatha Macbeth facepalms
Mickorod Renard: :)
Mickorod Renard: ok,,where are we at
Aphrodite Macbain: Im now behind Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: It must be the view. I can see APh fine.
Agatha Macbeth: Oh she's at the back that's why
Eliza Madrigal: just moved back
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm hiding behind Bruce atm
Mickorod Renard: kk
Aphrodite Macbain: It's snowing!
Mickorod Renard: any reports? ..I dont have one but I had a dream relative
Eliza Madrigal: a dream related to this?
Bruce Mowbray: I only have the same report I gave on Monday.
Mickorod Renard: well, maybe ,,loosly sort of perhaps
Aphrodite Macbain: ah I wondered whether that was a relative who only turned up in your dreams Mick
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: he he
--BELL--
Agatha Macbeth: Ho ho
Mickorod Renard: I dont even have relatives that turn up in rl
Aphrodite Macbain: I couldnt get to chapter 13 - no time :-(
Eliza Madrigal grins
Aphrodite Macbain: awww
Agatha Macbeth: Send for Robbie the reindeer
Eliza Madrigal: I'd like to hear your dream MIck
Mickorod Renard: I had a skirmish into 13 to remind me what I had read proir to forgetting
Aphrodite Macbain: Here he is
Mickorod Renard: I can do the dream if folk want?
Agatha Macbeth: Any French women?
Mickorod Renard: nah, pretty boring
Aphrodite Macbain: go for it Mick
Mickorod Renard: kk
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Mickorod Renard: I havnt brought a report with me as I had a rather hectic few days and today was just manic. It was nice too and I got to sit and have xmas lunch with a couple of hundred 4 to 11 year olds. I did have a dream though, and although it was a couple of days ago I will try and recall. It was following monday session and was related.
Mickorod Renard: I woke and was thinking of what had passed in the session and then I drifted off again. I found myself in the tower that houses Big Ben in London. I was stood where the clock mechanism is housed and all of my thoughts were represented by the large cog wheels relentlessly turning and in this case anti clockwise. The large wheels were a mixture of bright gold or black and hypnotic as they moved seemlessly around tooth at a time.
Agatha Macbeth: Was Robert Powell there?
Mickorod Renard: My eyes were then drawn to the opaque fretted round window where the clock face was represented on the opposite side. Although whitish at first it started to rotate clockwise, opposite the motion of the gear wheels of the clock mechanism. As it rotated the round window changed to multi colours and then to that of the ceiling of the Sistine chapel with all its imagery.
Mickorod Renard: :)
Mickorod Renard: I was then projected to some sort of war in the middle east. Here I was a soldier running from one ruined building to another. I had my riffle and came across several wounded enemy soldiers, some trapped under debris. I pointed my weapon at them as I came across them and poised to 'finish them off'. Each time I lowered my gun and moved on but each time they said 'God is merciful' and I too found myself repeating it inside my head. Although there was more to the dream which I cannot muster at present due to distractions I recall pondering over it a bit.
Eliza Madrigal: wow Mick... I love the imagery and details
Mickorod Renard: I pondered why I was repeating 'God is merciful' when I was not being threatened. I don't know whether God has anything to do with anyones choices..who knows? But I was reminded of when I was a lad and had killed many birds with my gun..I changed from being euphoric at the killing to remorseful and then shame perhaps. A soldier has a job to do..but as humans we also should have something else. There was also something economic about it too..about obtaining two good things from one choice. It wasn't about feeling good,,but it was about not feeling bad. It was also about thinking of others besides ones self. It was probably the first time I made a conscious choice on my own back without feeling I had to for fear of direct punnishment.
Mickorod Renard: done
Eliza Madrigal: more wows
Eliza Madrigal: such a deep dream, soul searching
Bruce Mowbray: Growth-producing.
Eliza Madrigal watching Aph practice for reindeer rodeo out of the corner of her eye
Eliza Madrigal: how do you feel it related to our reading?
Mickorod Renard: its a shame I didnt write it up at the time,,there was much more
Aphrodite Macbain: ride 'em cowboy
Eliza Madrigal: you captured a lot... both internal and external details
Mickorod Renard: I think i am trying to find a reason behind the point that man was changed
Aphrodite Macbain: that's amazing MIck
Eliza Madrigal: say again?
Agatha Macbeth: Again
Aphrodite Macbain: :/
Eliza Madrigal: :P not you gracie
Mickorod Renard: still caught in the infancy in respect to the responsible
Agatha Macbeth: Reponsiblity is boring
Mickorod Renard: kids do stuff knowing its wrong but without remorse
Bruce Mowbray: SOME kids so, but other kids seem to have a built in moral compass.
Agatha Macbeth: Mine went west
Mickorod Renard: well, that may be true Bruce,,or is it what appears to be true?
Mickorod Renard: if we consider AI for eg
Bruce Mowbray: One of my early memories is of my brother shooting blackbirds with his BB gun.
Mickorod Renard: we programm kids,,but at some stage they can program themselves
Bruce Mowbray: I always felt hurt by that.
Mickorod Renard: ah I see Bruce
Mickorod Renard: but you may have squashed ants?
Bruce Mowbray: I don't think we give kids enough credit for being able to make their own moral decisions if we give them opportunities to do that.
Eliza Madrigal: it is hard to look back, once you've become ssensitive to something you weren't before
Bruce Mowbray: Bullying, for example.
Mickorod Renard: mmm a complex issue
Agatha Macbeth: Ow
Eliza Madrigal: we used to take my oldest to sea world all the time... she was in the little show etc., but later they met a the man who wrote Behind the Dolphin Smile, and we grew to become sad about it all
Mickorod Renard: and bullying can be so discrete too
Agatha Macbeth: Free Willy
Eliza Madrigal: http://www.thecovemovie.com/richardobarry.htm
Mickorod Renard: any ime ags
Agatha Macbeth pokes Mick
Bruce Mowbray: As Eliza implies, when one understands the situation from the other's (dolphin's) side, the moral decisions become possible.
Eliza Madrigal nods, lots of things like that
Eliza Madrigal: countless maybe
Mickorod Renard: ah great Bruce
Mickorod Renard: I think this is where I was hoping to get to
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: so one can tell a kid,,but until they grasp the story they dont really understand
Bruce Mowbray: i think your dreams are showing you the way, Mick.
Eliza Madrigal: waking up can be painful but we're all in the same boat
Mickorod Renard: but is it something that is diferent in a kid,,or just they dont stay put long enought to hear the story?
Agatha Macbeth ponders waking up in a boat
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe it's a matter of putting the right questions to the kid - rather than telling the kid a story. . .
Bruce Mowbray: like, "If you were the dolphin, . . . . ?"
Bruce Mowbray: open-ended questions.
Eliza Madrigal nods... that's why some children's books are so powerful
Mickorod Renard: in respect to A and E....A and E pay a high price...maybe God didnt tell the story right?
Eliza Madrigal: I have a little report
Eliza Madrigal: also only tangentially related
Mickorod Renard: ah great
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: go for it
Eliza Madrigal: I listened to a fantastic talk today... about social evolution. It was touched on religion/certain aspects of belief as an adaptive trait..
Eliza Madrigal: one part was especially interesting. One of the speakers talked about that the person who believes at Porcupines throw their quills is wrong, but they are more likely to not be attacked, because their reflexes will go into gear, believing that the porcupine will throw quills, when actually it will only move fast and turn quickly.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, some of us feel that the A and E story is a happy one. . . with many diverse happy endings. . .
Agatha Macbeth: Either way you get the point
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: the interesting part is that beliefs shouldn't be ridiculed....
Mickorod Renard: yes Bruce, that crossed my mind as I was typing it,,but most folk are led to believe its a negative story
Eliza Madrigal: people may adapt them for survival just like anything else
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, they are indeed.
Bruce Mowbray: (led to believe. . . )
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe the porcupines started the rumour
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Mickorod Renard: If we took the church out,,and the politics,,would it be more readable as a positive?
Eliza Madrigal: I think they did
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Porcupines have Free Quill, you know.
Eliza Madrigal: ha ha ha ha
Mickorod Renard: God still said they would die
Agatha Macbeth: Throw him in the ppol
Mickorod Renard: free quill,,he he
Agatha Macbeth: Or pool even
Bruce Mowbray: with the dolphins.
Agatha Macbeth: Quack
Eliza Madrigal: but the question sort of is, even if it were positive, does that make it something to hold on to?
Aphrodite Macbain: acording to evolutionary biologists/psychologists, every thing we do is to ensure our surviva; and the survival of our particular species
Eliza Madrigal nods
Agatha Macbeth: What about lemmings?
Eliza Madrigal: there was LOTS good in this talk https://www.samharris.org/podcast/it...gy-and-culture
Aphrodite Macbain: lemmings too
Mickorod Renard: well eliza, as you put it re the quills,,even negative is positive
Agatha Macbeth scratches her head
Aphrodite Macbain: it ensures that the smartest of them will survive :-)
Eliza Madrigal: someone really ought to write a book about lemmings :)
Agatha Macbeth: The ones with matresses?
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Mickorod Renard: and as Bruce said, all endings are happy endings
Agatha Macbeth: Or parachutes
Bruce Mowbray: [I said that???]
Eliza Madrigal: I was wondering....
Agatha Macbeth: You did?
Mickorod Renard: I though u did..he he
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it was the porcupines
Agatha Macbeth: Ow
Eliza Madrigal: Did I ever tell you about my 'editing' feathers into one of Gaya's dreams?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I said that in my opinion the A & E story had many diverse happy endings,
Mickorod Renard: I may of been dreaming of massage parlours
Eliza Madrigal: I remembered it so clearly, and it was absolutely not what she shared
Bruce Mowbray: but there are a few porcupines in there too perhaps.
Agatha Macbeth: Probably but tell us again
Mickorod Renard: listens
Aphrodite Macbain: editing feathers?
Eliza Madrigal: :) that's the story, mainly.... because we had the logs, it was fascinating to compare our stories of her dream
Bruce Mowbray also listens.
Eliza Madrigal: it was a lovely dream, but somehow, I wrote feathers into it..
Eliza Madrigal: lots of them
Bruce Mowbray: sort of fluffed up the dream, then?
Aphrodite Macbain: made it warmer
Aphrodite Macbain: cosier?
Mickorod Renard: quills turned into quilts?
Eliza Madrigal: more magical... but it was already wonderful
Agatha Macbeth: Pseudofeathers
Eliza Madrigal: I just projected a whole fiction unknowingly
Eliza Madrigal: was convinced completely
Eliza Madrigal: yes :D
Agatha Macbeth: How odd
Mickorod Renard: but we are easy to convince anyway
Mickorod Renard: which could be why we are so advanced
Aphrodite Macbain: how so?
Mickorod Renard: in the animal world
Mickorod Renard: if we have a receptive brain
Aphrodite Macbain: a very creative brain
Mickorod Renard: that too
Aphrodite Macbain: plastic and adaptive
Aphrodite Macbain: mine is a bit fuzzy round the edges
Mickorod Renard: I often wonder about kids who are easily led..rather than less easily convinced
Aphrodite Macbain: they have learned to respect authority
Mickorod Renard: which is best?
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: a critical mind with a set of morals developed by themselves
Aphrodite Macbain: If that's possible
Mickorod Renard: sounds perfection
Eliza Madrigal is glad she raised kids who are critical thinkers, but can't say it has made things easy
Eliza Madrigal: for them especially
Aphrodite Macbain: I dont think we can avoid being influenced morally, can we?
Mickorod Renard: I brought mine up to challenge,,and it ended up where he did not respect the norm
Agatha Macbeth: Erst kommt das essen dann die morale
Mickorod Renard: the moral one is questionable whilst young I think
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Mickorod Renard: kids are full of selfishness too,,even if they dont show it
Agatha Macbeth: Two pirate jennies in two days - must be a record
Aphrodite Macbain: I remember moral behaviour being drummed into me
Eliza Madrigal: have often questioned whether encouraging questioning so much, not partaking in some norms more, was the right balance when there weren't clear replacements
Aphrodite Macbain: never lie!
Aphrodite Macbain: never heurt others!
Aphrodite Macbain: finish your dinner
Eliza Madrigal: oh, that one
Bruce Mowbray: If you want to be a beautiful movie about such questions, watch CALL ME BY YOUR NAME.
Aphrodite Macbain: think about the starving Koreans
Mickorod Renard: i had a case at school a few year ago..where a picked on kid retaliated..i still had to punnish him even though he seemed right to me
Aphrodite Macbain: It's a beautiful film, isn't it?
Eliza Madrigal: on my list Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: I didn't know the Koreans are starving
Bruce Mowbray: It is truly a beautiful film, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: they were when I was growing up
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Bruce Mowbray: (I figure it was filmed somewhere aroud Milano...)
Agatha Macbeth: They didn't have gangnam then
Aphrodite Macbain: what is that?
Eliza Madrigal: by the time that line got to me, it was "Chinese"
Aphrodite Macbain: ha
Mickorod Renard: he he
Agatha Macbeth wonders where all these starving Asians suddenly came from
Aphrodite Macbain: they are often people very different from ours....
Eliza Madrigal: the guilt was the thing...
Agatha Macbeth: I thought it was Africans
Aphrodite Macbain: There will be more and more of them, wherever they are
Aphrodite Macbain: My answer was" send my spinache to them, then"
Eliza Madrigal: in our time we can see the numbers in the US
Eliza Madrigal: :) Aph
Bruce Mowbray: Happy shortest day of the year, everyone!
Agatha Macbeth: It worked for Popeye
Aphrodite Macbain: Happy Solstice
Eliza Madrigal: Happy Solstice :)
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm going out for a walk around Lost Lagoon to see the ducks
Mickorod Renard: during the major wars, 1st n 2nd..the asian/chinese countries suffered greatly..largely due to food disruption
Mickorod Renard: yayyy..i often go to an old stone circle on a day like today
Agatha Macbeth: That must have been it
Mickorod Renard: might go tomorrow
Agatha Macbeth: Rollrights?
Eliza Madrigal: true, Mick
Mickorod Renard: yes
Agatha Macbeth: I know em
Mickorod Renard: and the kigs stones
Aphrodite Macbain: Rollrights?
Mickorod Renard: Kings men stones
Agatha Macbeth: Are the witches still there?
Aphrodite Macbain: coool
Mickorod Renard: oh yes, generally
Aphrodite Macbain: looks over the the standing stones
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Aphrodite Macbain: they have been with us for exactly a year.
Aphrodite Macbain: remember our solstice dancing?
Mickorod Renard: oh yes, our stones
Agatha Macbeth: Paul McCartney
Bruce Mowbray nods. Remember our Solstice dancing last year?
Eliza Madrigal: that was wonderful
Eliza Madrigal: and we still have them :)
Aphrodite Macbain: yes last year
Eliza Madrigal: can just go out back
Mickorod Renard: I think I was away..up the amazon or the kyber pass?
Aphrodite Macbain: everyone dancing in unison like a druidic conga line
Agatha Macbeth: Don't forget the mistletoe
Bruce Mowbray: I think you were on the Amazon, Mick.
Eliza Madrigal: think so Mick
Agatha Macbeth: Buying books
Aphrodite Macbain: nice
Mickorod Renard: rings a bell
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Bruce Mowbray: A prime thing to be doing.
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Mickorod Renard: my nose is still burnt
Agatha Macbeth: At least you didn't sleep with the fishes
Mickorod Renard: he he
Aphrodite Macbain: the piranas would be deadly
Mickorod Renard: I caught a few
Bruce Mowbray quickly covers Blub's ears.
Aphrodite Macbain: wonders why Mick is whispering
Aphrodite Macbain: eh?
Mickorod Renard: yet there were some locals up to their waists in the river
Eliza Madrigal blows kisses at blub.... you're safe here
Mickorod Renard: i think i pressed a wrong button
Agatha Macbeth: Boom
Aphrodite Macbain: shift
Eliza Madrigal: good thing we're sitting close
Mickorod Renard: HELLO
Aphrodite Macbain: eh?
Mickorod Renard: HELLO
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Mick
Mickorod Renard: HELLO
Aphrodite Macbain: eh eh?
Eliza Madrigal: speak up sunny
Mickorod Renard: NO, NOT STOPPED IT
Aphrodite Macbain: EH?
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Mickorod Renard: erk
Bruce Mowbray: hello
Agatha Macbeth: Is the cat on the keyboard
Eliza Madrigal: it may fix itself before you sign on again
Mickorod Renard: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe u have a sore throat
Mickorod Renard: thankfully..pretty please
Agatha Macbeth: Liz legs!
Mickorod Renard: wow
Bruce Mowbray: Time to be a-scraping.
Mickorod Renard: thanks for being here
Mickorod Renard: bye all
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you Mick
Mickorod Renard: merry xmas
Agatha Macbeth: Whispering Mick
Aphrodite Macbain: Happy holidays everyone
Mickorod Renard: are we meeting anytime?
Eliza Madrigal: happy merry <3 <3 <3
Agatha Macbeth: Ho ho ho
Aphrodite Macbain: ho ho ho
Mickorod Renard: over weekend?
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: hugs all round
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think so... would be fun to skate together though
Mickorod Renard: :( all gone..byeeee
Eliza Madrigal: bye friends :)
Agatha Macbeth: We don't have Stormy's lake any more :(
Mickorod Renard: whenz the skating?
Eliza Madrigal: San has done the 900 level up
Eliza Madrigal: and also on her spots
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Eliza Madrigal: so lots of skating places
Agatha Macbeth: Where's that?
Mickorod Renard: ok,,might have a look
Eliza Madrigal: 900 level
Eliza Madrigal: in the whole gardens
Mickorod Renard: is it on hud?
Eliza Madrigal: where we partied before
Mickorod Renard: kk
Eliza Madrigal: yes... choose 3
Eliza Madrigal: really pretty
Eliza Madrigal: did he go?
Agatha Macbeth: Must take a look
Eliza Madrigal: yes pop up