The Guardian for this meeting was Mick. The comments are by Agatha.

Tura Brezoianu: hi Mick
Mickorod Renard: Hi Tura
Tura Brezoianu: keeping fit?
Mickorod Renard: he he , fit to drop
Mickorod Renard: I was trying to upload an image
Tura Brezoianu: hi Storm
--BELL--1.00
Storm Nordwind: Hi Tura :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: excuse me a mo just tryig an upload
Storm Nordwind: No rush
Mickorod Renard: ah, sussed the problem, it was too big
Storm Nordwind: All systems have their individual limits
Storm Nordwind: As peculiar as humans :)
Mickorod Renard: how are you both?
Storm Nordwind: Good here thank you.
Tura Brezoianu: Fine
Mickorod Renard: is it bank hol monday in usa?
Storm Nordwind: Is it WhitMonday where you are Mich? Or was that last week?
Mickorod Renard: great
Storm Nordwind: Apparently it's Memorial Day here
Mickorod Renard: whit I think
Storm Nordwind: Which is a public holiday here yes
Mickorod Renard: ah cool, so u have a hol too?
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ags
Agatha Macbeth: Here I am
Mickorod Renard: yayyy
Storm Nordwind: Love the vest Aggers (as they call it here) :)
Mickorod Renard: I heard Eden is away
Agatha Macbeth: She was here earlier
Agatha Macbeth: Goes Wed I think
Storm Nordwind: She was busy packing this morning. Farewell session.
Mickorod Renard: just checking your vest Ags
Agatha Macbeth: Ironing her elephant or something
Mickorod Renard: very debonair
Agatha Macbeth: Blakopal
Agatha Macbeth: Who only seem to be on MP these days
Storm Nordwind: So many have gone that way
Agatha Macbeth: Probably got fed up of being overcharged for tier
Agatha Macbeth: Shame cos her shop in Caledon was one of the first I ever patronised
Mickorod Renard: wow
Agatha Macbeth: Used to go there with Wol
Storm Nordwind: We all have our first-times that we remember :)
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Agatha Macbeth: I can remember what I did nine years ago but not five minutes ago
Mickorod Renard: well, thats whats scary bout gettin older
Agatha Macbeth: It is
Mickorod Renard: the past goes quicker and the future is relative
Agatha Macbeth: Walking into rooms and thinking why did I come in here
Storm Nordwind: Ah yes
Agatha Macbeth: But if I go back I remember!
Mickorod Renard: what I said was nuts,,but I guess u know what I mean
Agatha Macbeth: Nuts to you Mick
Mickorod Renard: :)
Storm Nordwind: I must see if DE Designs is still there, which is where I first met the reason I emigrated!
Mickorod Renard: ah
Agatha Macbeth: What do they sell?
Mickorod Renard: might I ask if the same reason is why u r still there?
Storm Nordwind: Clothes
Agatha Macbeth: Aha
Agatha Macbeth: Great
Storm Nordwind: I married that woman yes, the day after I emigrated. And haven't left the country since
Mickorod Renard: great
Storm Nordwind: And yes DE Designs still seems to exist - with its own named sim
Agatha Macbeth: Must take a look
Storm Nordwind: Anyway... nostalgia's not what it used to be ;)
Agatha Macbeth: Hehe
Agatha Macbeth: Anyway about these birds
Mickorod Renard: yeh, they seem to be waking earlier by the day
Mickorod Renard: is Bruce expected?
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe the hoopoe is driving them
--BELL--1.15
Mickorod Renard: i was staling a bit..in case
Agatha Macbeth: Being a hol anything's possible
Mickorod Renard: we dont have to do birds today if we have little to contribute..but I have written my thoughts
Agatha Macbeth: Sounds good
Mickorod Renard: should we still want to do the birds
Mickorod Renard: or, /and..all offers welcome
Storm Nordwind: Well I did find this time, while going at least some of the set reading, that there was even a smidgen of compassion early on, the lack of which I have railed about in every other session.
Mickorod Renard: he he , I thought that too Storm
Tura Brezoianu: where was that?
Mickorod Renard: its like we are getting past the stick
Storm Nordwind: Toward the start of the piece. Didn't last long though.
Mickorod Renard: I am hoping that eventually the birds take flight and enjoy the trip
Agatha Macbeth: They will :p
Storm Nordwind: Mutiny? ;)
Tura Brezoianu: But "out of a hundred thousand there is one" to completes the journey
Mickorod Renard: or, maybe the trip doesnt involve going anywhere?
Tura Brezoianu: *who
Agatha Macbeth: Again, grail-esque
Mickorod Renard: ah! there is only one?
Agatha Macbeth: Spoilers...
Mickorod Renard: but I guess as long as they narrate the last stretch we share in it
Tura Brezoianu: Thirty make it, so I guess there are three million gathered at the moment
Mickorod Renard: he he
Agatha Macbeth: Bird brained
Mickorod Renard: I still like the book..although maybe its a bit simple in some ways
Tura Brezoianu: Simple-minded, single-minded...
Mickorod Renard: thing is, I guess we are all coming at it from diferent perspectives
Storm Nordwind: I liked it when I first read it in 1974. But I was differently minded then :)
Mickorod Renard: would you like me to paste my written thoughts,,then you can have a nibble at it?
Mickorod Renard: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Please do
Tura Brezoianu: The hoopoe is very insistent on fanatical devotion to the Path, to the exclusion of all else, and yet absolutely powerless to take a single step forward without the grace of God
Tura Brezoianu: ye, please go ahead
Mickorod Renard: ok...(to the slaughter)

Mickorod Renard: Always a supporter of the idea of impermanence or constant change, built upon ? ideas of changing forms of energy and matter etc I never like to stray from the ? basics.
Mickorod Renard: In respect to the poem and the sections we have done I feel content with some idea ? that 'the change' is bigger than me and well outside my ability to steer that change ? to my own benefit, at least without creating some cause and effect that no doubt ? goes against the natural flow of things and often to my detriment.
Mickorod Renard: Frustration ,disappointment and waste of time to the point of missing the true ? beauty of life is what I have experienced , often when trying to keep a hold on ? things..and maybe being greedy/selfish too
Mickorod Renard: The individual poems speak to me . The one where the hail falls through a hole in ? the roof reminds me of how I now love the rain and it washing over me. How ? blessed I am to experience this..compared to many without..and all with a change of ? mental attitude. The poem' the dervish in love with God' brought a tear to my eyes ? whilst reading it...filling me with an ecstasy too difficult to put into words.
Mickorod Renard: I am fortunate in that I can get rid of myself for lengthy periods and give myself over ? and have become conditioned to enjoy this state. At times however an odd ? frustration for a personal need turns up and I recognise the turmoil this ? causes..very odd.

Mickorod Renard: done
Mickorod Renard: I guess in a way I am managing to pay less value to my material world
Storm Nordwind: if you could move now immediately to that state of ecstasy and stay there, would you do it?
--BELL--1.30
Mickorod Renard: I often ask myself that
Mickorod Renard: I even ask myself if I could..and I think its posible
Mickorod Renard: but , what I would like to find is a way of bridging across
Storm Nordwind: If you did, how would that square with being "a supporter of the idea of impermanence or constant change"? Would you have to give that up?
Mickorod Renard: so that I could function in my love for others at the same time,,and i think that is possib;le
Mickorod Renard: no, I think its about appreciating the change, as if its a narative
Mickorod Renard: and enjoying the trip of life
Mickorod Renard: rather than fighting the change
Mickorod Renard: maybe its easier when you get older, cos diferent things drive diferent desires when younger?
Storm Nordwind: It can be. Though I suspect it depends on the grace with which you age!
Mickorod Renard: just the procreation stuff is a huge factor when younger
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Mickorod Renard: still a distraction,,he he
Tura Brezoianu: Socrates likened it to being dragged about by a wild animal
Mickorod Renard: but as for me, I am satisfied and grateful for my lot
Agatha Macbeth: He would
Mickorod Renard: what did he liken to?
Tura Brezoianu: Sexual desire.
Mickorod Renard: ah yes
Storm Nordwind: When it still exists in you, but you acknowledge it and it is no longer a distraction, you will have succeeded. :)
Agatha Macbeth: His wife must have been an interesting person
Mickorod Renard: well, that is a problem, cos I guess it depends if you have to abandon it or live with it without it driving you?
Agatha Macbeth: Va va voom
Mickorod Renard: or let it slip away
Storm Nordwind: You live with it.
Storm Nordwind: F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote “the true test of a first-rate mind is the ability to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time.” And the same goes with feelings and drives.
Mickorod Renard: blimey, thats how my mind works all the time..he he
Storm Nordwind: haha!
Mickorod Renard: tweedle de and tweedle dum
Mickorod Renard: but then, I like the idea that there are infinite posibilities
Storm Nordwind thinks he wrote "intelligence" rather than "mind" - but the meaning is clear
Storm Nordwind: "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." - that's it. From "The Crack Up"
Agatha Macbeth: Aptly named it seems
Mickorod Renard: I know this book is a little 'islamic' but it still in my mind reminds me much of the things we covered in TSK and so forth
Storm Nordwind: f scott crack up
Mickorod Renard: generally freeing the mind up from clutter and seeing a whole bigger picture
--BELL--1.45
Storm Nordwind: That is useful whichever path you are on, surely?
Mickorod Renard: exactly
Storm Nordwind: An atheist businessman trying to pursue a career, for example
Mickorod Renard: without a doubt, make room in the head for clear thinking
Mickorod Renard: I am still trying to operate a busy lifestyle..mowing lawwns ,work and caring for kids etc..but want to do it all in a loving way
Storm Nordwind: A 9 second pause every 15 minutes helps with that. (I was never a fan of 90 seconds in these sessions and always found just 9 seconds much more effective!)
Mickorod Renard: rather than a chore or frustration
Mickorod Renard: well, interesting u shud bring that up
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Mickorod Renard: i saw the other day an article on oxytonin?
Mickorod Renard: if thats the word
Storm Nordwind: oh?
Mickorod Renard: and
Agatha Macbeth: I remember oxydol
Storm Nordwind: You probably mean oxytocin
Mickorod Renard: a hug that lasts 20 seconds produces a release of it
Mickorod Renard: yeh thats it Storm
Storm Nordwind: Eliza has been telling you about my hugs?
Mickorod Renard: I could never do meditation..best could manage was a cigar,,but packed up now
Agatha Macbeth: Tobacco meditation?
Mickorod Renard: however, I could focus on a hug..mentally..for 20 seconds..
Tura Brezoianu: "Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet"
Mickorod Renard: he he
Storm Nordwind: Oh my word - I remember that ad!
Agatha Macbeth: Alas poor Mick
Mickorod Renard: and wondered whether a mental 20 second hug would be beneficial
Storm Nordwind: Mick, you need to take up, master and then teach us all hug yoga :)
Mickorod Renard: and whether we should extend our silent period to 20 seconds
Storm Nordwind: Let's try it
Agatha Macbeth: From 90?
Mickorod Renard: well, we could think of a way to do it?
Storm Nordwind: 9 up to 20. 90 down to 20?
Mickorod Renard: maybe every 30 minutes a 20 second hug med
Storm Nordwind: Visualization, in a way similar to the karuna-metta meditation sessions 4 times a day on the Kuan Yin Terraces
Mickorod Renard: ah!
Agatha Macbeth: Right
Mickorod Renard: I have been looking for some sexy women in the village to try it on but can't find any
Storm Nordwind: o_O
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe Rover got them
Storm Nordwind: And I can tell you that American men are the worst huggers, men or women, of any I've met (and tried to hug)
Mickorod Renard: however, a hug med could be beneficial and if not an exploration
Mickorod Renard: you have tried to hug some american men?
Storm Nordwind: Sure!
Mickorod Renard: grin
Storm Nordwind: It's like hugging a block of wood, but without the same sense of warmth you'd get from a tree
Mickorod Renard: when I was in france I had a fair bit of men hug and kisses,,a bit wierd but hey
Mickorod Renard: yeh, I go stiff( as in arms and such ) when i hug,,am useless at it
Agatha Macbeth: !!
Mickorod Renard: unless I am familiar with them
Storm Nordwind: You really need practice
Agatha Macbeth ponders a stiff Mick
Mickorod Renard: I know, but I guess I am from a very stiff family
Storm Nordwind: I classify Eliza and me as hug masters. We should set up a workshop ;-)
Agatha Macbeth: Be stiff as Lene Lovich said
Mickorod Renard: actually I never see them..thats how close we are
Mickorod Renard: if we did we are condescending to each other
Mickorod Renard: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Families eh
--BELL--2.00
Mickorod Renard: I met an woman from iceland and she gave huge hugs but said it had to be heart to heart
Agatha Macbeth: Björk?
Mickorod Renard: indigestion Ags?
Agatha Macbeth: @.@
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Agatha Macbeth: It means birch you know
Agatha Macbeth: As in tree
Agatha Macbeth: So she should be good to hug
Mickorod Renard: ah, a magical tree?
Agatha Macbeth: If a birch is a magical tree then yes
Mickorod Renard: good for spanking with
Agatha Macbeth: I prefer 'the larch'
Mickorod Renard: ten strokes of the larch
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Agatha Macbeth: Dunno about mistletoe
Mickorod Renard: thats for strange schools
Agatha Macbeth: I know druids liked it for some reason
Mickorod Renard: well, I am not sure anyone knows what druids did..but one can make up some fun ideas
Agatha Macbeth: Old Julius had a lot to say about them I think
Agatha Macbeth: And other classical authors
Mickorod Renard: I keep meaning to ask, there are quite a few old stories like king arthur
Mickorod Renard: and parcival
Agatha Macbeth: Quite a few yes
Mickorod Renard: and I read a large poetical one which was French too
Mickorod Renard: but the name escapes me
Tura Brezoianu: Roman de la Rose?
Mickorod Renard: longraine or something
Agatha Macbeth: Lohengrin?
Mickorod Renard: ah thats it
Agatha Macbeth: Was German
Agatha Macbeth: The swan knight
Mickorod Renard: I must have had a french version
Agatha Macbeth: :P
Agatha Macbeth: It gets translated
Storm Nordwind: Wagner's opera Lohengrin of 1848 is based upon the legend.
Agatha Macbeth: Very good itis too
Mickorod Renard: which was first, are any medieval?
Agatha Macbeth: Think they all are
Storm Nordwind: The medieval story came first I think
Agatha Macbeth: Chétien de Troyes' was the first I think
Agatha Macbeth: About 1200
Mickorod Renard: whats that Roman de la Rose Tura?
Mickorod Renard: king Arthur was supposed to be more recent fiction
Tura Brezoianu: A medieval poem, some sort of long allegory of something.
Tura Brezoianu: (Long time since I read it)
Storm Nordwind: Roman de la Rose was roughly the same time, I think, written about 1200
Mickorod Renard: must look it up,,thanks
Agatha Macbeth: The historical Arthur (if he existed) lived around 500, well before medieval times
Agatha Macbeth: And he wasn't a king
Mickorod Renard: ah ok
Agatha Macbeth: More like a field marshall
Mickorod Renard: still great story
Agatha Macbeth: Oh it is
Mickorod Renard: and typical with all the deciet and coruption and stuff
Agatha Macbeth: Trouble is nobody these days can be sure where his battles were fought
Agatha Macbeth: Because the names have all changed
Storm Nordwind: To protect the innocent?
Agatha Macbeth: Possibly
Agatha Macbeth: Blame Guinevere
Mickorod Renard: I remember when I was first allowed to roam free..i made it up to hadrans wall,,there were some old roman shoes in a display cabinet and they were better than what I was wearing
Agatha Macbeth: There was earlier Celtic stuff like the Spoils of Annwn
--BELL--2.15
Agatha Macbeth: Oh great
Agatha Macbeth: Scottish sandals
Mickorod Renard: I have an old family name that I dont use..and it is mentioned in some very ancient Irish ..writings
Storm Nordwind: Good folks, I have lots of cooking to do. I must bid you farewell and pleasant hugs :)
Mickorod Renard: forgot what they are called now
Agatha Macbeth: Which one do you use then?
Mickorod Renard: cheers Storm
Agatha Macbeth: TC Stormy
Tura Brezoianu: bye Storm
Mickorod Renard: thanks for coming
Agatha Macbeth: Hugs
Mickorod Renard: I use Mick
Mickorod Renard: grin
Agatha Macbeth: Oh first name you mean
Mickorod Renard: sorry, I did mean surname
Mickorod Renard: was joking
Agatha Macbeth: Now I'm totally confused
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Agatha Macbeth: Just me then
Mickorod Renard: I will im my surname that isnt used to you both

He did

Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Agatha Macbeth: No wonder you don't use it
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: load of balls
Agatha Macbeth: Doesn't sound very Irish TBH
Mickorod Renard: It prob isnt
Agatha Macbeth: More French
Mickorod Renard: it was French
Agatha Macbeth: Aha
Mickorod Renard: but not very popular in France
Agatha Macbeth: My RL name comes from France too, but is actually German :P
Agatha Macbeth: Confusing eh
Mickorod Renard: but there was a large migration from ireland to France at one point
Agatha Macbeth: Bejasus
Mickorod Renard: yeh, I think lots moved around
Agatha Macbeth: The Scots came from Ireland too
Mickorod Renard: I spoze it wud be an idea to get dna checked
Mickorod Renard: get a sort of rough idea
Agatha Macbeth: Never know what you'll find!
Mickorod Renard: well, it was kind of you guys not to tear me to peices over my report
Agatha Macbeth: I didn't really understand most of it to be honest :P
Mickorod Renard: :)
Mickorod Renard: ah thats good
Agatha Macbeth: Ignorance is bliss as they say
Mickorod Renard: this is generally how I operate, that way everyone thinks I know something
Agatha Macbeth: Right
Agatha Macbeth: Like philosophers
Mickorod Renard: yes, just like them
Mickorod Renard: just create more questions
Agatha Macbeth: They had a stone allegedly
Mickorod Renard: went down like a rock
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Mickorod Renard: ok,,on that I had better go
Agatha Macbeth: Keeps you young so I'm told
Agatha Macbeth: OK
Mickorod Renard: thanks for being here
Agatha Macbeth: Back to the kids
Agatha Macbeth: YW
Mickorod Renard: havnt got any today
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Agatha Macbeth: Rest day
Mickorod Renard: yay, they went alton towers
Agatha Macbeth: Bit dark now
Mickorod Renard: with mum n dad
Mickorod Renard: bye for now
Agatha Macbeth: Have fun
Agatha Macbeth: Love to Morg
Tura Brezoianu: bye Mick, Ag