2019.06.04 11:30 - Dreams - Fraudian Slip

The Guardian for this meeting was Zen. Aggers did the log.

Tura Brezoianu: hi Ag

Agatha Macbeth: Evening all

Zen (Zen Arado): Hi Ahs

Zen (Zen Arado): Ags

Riddle Sideways: Hey Aggers

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): hi Agatha

Zen (Zen Arado): your president is over visiting us

Zen (Zen Arado): but I didn't get invited to any banquets

Riddle Sideways: Sorry fur ya

Zen (Zen Arado): not even in my dreams

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): you can keep him

Subaru Arun is offline.

Riddle Sideways: he fist bumped her

Agatha Macbeth: Cute dress Tu

Zen (Zen Arado): well I think we have two respect the office of president even if I don't like the man

Zen (Zen Arado): he also represents the American people and we shouldn't offend them

Riddle Sideways: hmmmm, zen we hear that agruement a lot

Agatha Macbeth: Doesn't he offend most of them?

Riddle Sideways: YES

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): hard to use the word "respect" in the same sentence with him

Agatha Macbeth: Nuff sed

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): he does not represent me

Zen (Zen Arado): I think there's something in it though

Zen (Zen Arado): I wonder does he have really tremendous dreams

Riddle Sideways: huge dreams

Zen (Zen Arado): the best dreams any president ever had :-)

Riddle Sideways: the Biggest dreams

Agatha Macbeth: Yes he probably counts his money

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I think he only sleeps about 3 hours a night

Zen (Zen Arado): I only have loser dreams

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): stays up all night tweeting

Zen (Zen Arado): :-)

Agatha Macbeth ponders a loser dream

Riddle Sideways: Losers dream, he does

Zen (Zen Arado): ah that's right

Zen (Zen Arado): he is action man

Agatha Macbeth: Plastic

Zen (Zen Arado): anyway anyone have any dreams tremendous or otherwise?

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I had a very emotional dream about my father

Agatha Macbeth: Aww

Tura Brezoianu listens

Zen (Zen Arado): Do you want to share it Alma?

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I suppose I can

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): My father is painting some shelves in the basement of the house. I have put a bunch of my books on those shelves. I come down and find that all my books have been moved so that my father could put his painting things there. I am annoyed at how he moves my stuff around without asking me. He needs to cover all of the shelves with a panel in order to finish his painting, which means I will not be able to get to my books. I look through them, trying to decide which ones to take with me. My father looks at my books and makes sarcastic comments about them and their subject matter. He picks up a thin volume that was written by a college friend of mine, with a title that is something about self-compassion. He is openly scornful of these kinds of books and mocks me for having them. I feel more and more angry, until finally I lash out at him, telling him that I don't like the way he is acting towards me. When I wake up, I am still talking out loud to him in an angry voice.

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): [end]

Agatha Macbeth: Oh my

Zen (Zen Arado): sound familiar

Tura Brezoianu: Wow

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): it was funny, I was still talking out loud even after I woke up. good thing I sleep alone lol!

Agatha Macbeth: Just don't wake the neighbours

Zen (Zen Arado): did your father paint paintings?

Riddle Sideways: or just painted shelves

Zen (Zen Arado): Or just painting the wall

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): not artistic painting, but household maintenance painting

Tura Brezoianu: Is that how you were with each other in RL?

Agatha Macbeth: The functional type

Zen (Zen Arado): I see because if he was more artistic he might have been more understanding

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): well, he could be like that sometimes, but I never told him off the way I did in this dream

Riddle Sideways: ah ha!

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): maybe I should have

Zen (Zen Arado): yes maybe you bottled it up

Zen (Zen Arado): but you are dealing with it now

Riddle Sideways: this is where Fraud comes in, about repressed feelings

Zen (Zen Arado): yes

Agatha Macbeth: Fraud!

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): hehe

Agatha Macbeth: Fraudian slip

Zen (Zen Arado): I did some introductory psychology and I seem to have forgotten all of it

Riddle Sideways: speelting not goodle subject

Zen (Zen Arado): and it was only two or three months ago

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I guess I still have unresolved feelings about him, even though he died a long time ago

Agatha Macbeth: me wonders what the dragon would make of Fraud

Zen (Zen Arado): none of us had Buddhas for fathers

Zen (Zen Arado): Sigmund Freud

Agatha Macbeth: Well mine was bald

Zen (Zen Arado): if I say Sigmund first Dragon is quite happy

Agatha Macbeth: Aha

Zen (Zen Arado): a father image would be good to work with in a dream?

Zen (Zen Arado): Probably so many unexpressed or repressed things from the past that we can learn from?

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): Freud is close to the German word for joy (freude)

Agatha Macbeth: Schadenfreude

Zen (Zen Arado): And of course our father's did their best for us as well

Zen (Zen Arado): although isn't true for everyone

Zen (Zen Arado): I dream about my father a lot too although I think I was closer to my mother

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): my relationship with my father was ambivalent ... some good aspects and some not so good.

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): he did the best he could, given his own history

Zen (Zen Arado): my father used to have to work himself into a bad temper if he thought we needed to be punished for something

Zen (Zen Arado): I never realised that at the time though

Zen (Zen Arado): I was thinking the other day that I never really conversed that much with my parents about anything deep or anything I was worried about et cetera

Zen (Zen Arado): I think parents and children talk to each other a lot more nowadays

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): maybe I will try to have a conversation with the dream image of my father

Zen (Zen Arado): (when they can be dragged away from their iPads and phones)

Zen (Zen Arado): yes, good idea

Bruce (Bruce Mowbray) is online.

Agatha Macbeth: Yes I text mine all the time :p

Zen (Zen Arado): maybe your father is still contactable in the collective unconscious or something

Zen (Zen Arado): that's a bit mystical but who knows?

Agatha Macbeth: Ooer a bit mystical

Agatha Macbeth: Steady Zenny

Zen (Zen Arado): :-)

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): if he's there, he's probably driving everyone else crazy lol

Riddle Sideways: lol

Zen (Zen Arado): Do you ever get dreams where you just kind of hanging around with people?

Zen (Zen Arado): I seem to get a lot of those lately

Zen (Zen Arado): there is really nothing to write about except that you were with the people

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I am often in a group of people in my dreams

Riddle Sideways: yes, quite a few

Zen (Zen Arado): I hadn't seen with my mother and my dog but we kind of just sat looking at each other

Zen (Zen Arado): I had a dream that should be

Subaru Arun is online.

Tura Brezoianu: Sounds quite pleasant, I haven't had dreams like that

Zen (Zen Arado): I had another where a guy I used to work with who has died recently came into my apartment and just smiled and stood there for a while

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): aww, that sounds nice

Zen (Zen Arado): it makes me wonder if they are out there somewhere

Zen (Zen Arado): I'm so mystical tonight :-)

Riddle Sideways: and how much you should read into them

Zen (Zen Arado): I had a dream last night where I didn't know if I will dreaming or thinking

Zen (Zen Arado): if I was

Riddle Sideways: get a lot of those

Zen (Zen Arado): a kind of half dreaming/thinking dream

Zen (Zen Arado): have you got any Riddle?

Subaru Arun is offline.

Agatha Macbeth: Limnal

Riddle Sideways: not really writting all those down, because not sure they are dreams

Riddle Sideways: often dreams are: sit around playing or listening to music

Zen (Zen Arado): I'm having to really force myself to log dreams

Riddle Sideways: like last night

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I had a funny sort of borderline lucid dream

Zen (Zen Arado): listens

Riddle Sideways: /listens

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I'm trying to write down or record what is happening in a dream, at the same time that I am dreaming it. There is a woman in the room with me, talking. I'm trying to write down what she is saying. I hold out my hand with my voice recorder to try to record her, but then I realize that the recorder is still under my pillow, and I have nothing in my hand. I can see my hands, and for a brief moment the dream begins to become lucid, but I immediately wake up.

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): [end]

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): it's funny because I seemed to actually believe that I could record the dream while still in it

Riddle Sideways: darn, you did your wake up thing again

Zen (Zen Arado): hey that's a good idea – a recorder for dreams in a dream

Zen (Zen Arado): I usually can't remember conversations from dreams

Zen (Zen Arado): or only little snatches

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I have been struggling to remember and record my dreams lately too

Agatha Macbeth: You still remember more than me

Zen (Zen Arado): it's a constant struggle

Agatha Macbeth: Like life eh

Zen (Zen Arado): I don't know about that

Zen (Zen Arado): at least I don't have to get up for work in the morning

Agatha Macbeth: Word

Riddle Sideways: brb

Zen (Zen Arado): I just have to waken before the careworkers come in

Agatha Macbeth: What time do they arrive?

Zen (Zen Arado): I have lost some good dreams that way

Zen (Zen Arado): that's the problem, the time changes a lot

Agatha Macbeth: Ah

Zen (Zen Arado): it can be anywhere from 7:30 AM to 8:15 AM

Agatha Macbeth: Poor Zen

Zen (Zen Arado): now that's okay

Zen (Zen Arado): I don't have to make a decision what time to get up in the morning any more :-)

Zen (Zen Arado): did you remember anything the woman said Alma?

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): no I didn't

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I rarely remember the actual words people speak to me in dreams, more just the general meaning of what they were saying

Zen (Zen Arado): yes I think that's what happens with me

Zen (Zen Arado): perhaps they use telepathy in dreams?

Zen (Zen Arado): :-)

Agatha Macbeth: I'm not sure I ever actually hear words in dreams

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): occasionally a short phrase will stand out and be remembered

Zen (Zen Arado): it's like you see their lips moving but you don't actually hear anything?

Agatha Macbeth: And when I read them they look funny

Zen (Zen Arado): But you know what they mean

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): or sometimes someone will be talking in a dream and I cannot understand them, because they are speaking too softly, or there is a lot of background noise

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I keep asking them to repeat, but I still can't understand

Zen (Zen Arado): maybe we need to practice that deep listening thing

Zen (Zen Arado): but hard to remember to do that in a dream

Zen (Zen Arado): I had a dream last night about work

Zen (Zen Arado): I am lying in bed around 2:30 AM thinking about my old job as a training instructor in a power station. It seems to become a mixture of thinking and dreaming. I have a group of trainee engineers. There is a new facility opening in the power station and they need to be trained for it. However, I start to feel anxious because I don't have a programme, or anything prepared, and it is a Thursday. Also, I am on my own and need some supporting staff. One of the managers from NIE walks in and I tell him this and that the engineers need to be trained in the classroom with practical training in the power station, first, before I let them loose on a simulator, and simulator courses run from Monday to Friday. He tells me I can work the weekend with them if I want to. I realise I am dreaming and decide that this is hard work and wake up

Agatha Macbeth: Now I can't get that damn 'what does the fox say' song outta my head

Agatha Macbeth reads

Zen (Zen Arado): (done)

Zen (Zen Arado): just an old anxiety dream I guess

Riddle Sideways: reads

Agatha Macbeth: You're smart even in dreams then

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): seems like the unconscious stays in a job long after we have left it in waking life

Zen (Zen Arado): how do you mean?

Agatha Macbeth: Not wanting to work weekends

Riddle Sideways: anxiety dreams of bosses making unreasonable tasks

Zen (Zen Arado): yes, we never worked weekends, only 9 to 5 Mondays to Fridays

Zen (Zen Arado): although I previously did shift work

Riddle Sideways: yes, worked on a project for a Power company and they Never stayed late or weekends

Zen (Zen Arado): we used to have horrible shifts in the job I first started in

Zen (Zen Arado): we used to start the night shift on Saturday night 12 AM to 8 PM

Zen (Zen Arado): and we did seven of them

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I have dreams about being back in an office where I worked for a long time, and then in the the dream I realize I don't work there any more and can leave whenever I want.

Zen (Zen Arado): such a feeling of relief

Agatha Macbeth: Ha

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): yes

Riddle Sideways: remember being in RL and thinking could leave after 12 hours, ha

Agatha Macbeth: Log out

Zen (Zen Arado): yeah pity we can't log out of real life

Agatha Macbeth: We can

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): just once

Zen (Zen Arado): would be handy sometimes

Agatha Macbeth: And every night

Zen (Zen Arado): well I suppose deep sleep is that

Zen (Zen Arado): but we can't press a button to get there

Tura Brezoianu: tune in, turn on, drop out

Zen (Zen Arado): I have an exercise to post.

Bruce (Bruce Mowbray) is offline.

Zen (Zen Arado): this exercise is getting very detailed and involved

Zen (Zen Arado): EXERCISE: The Intelligent Image

Begin by making physical and mental space for this exercise. Create a place in your home or office that provides you the needed space to receive all that arises and offers a way of paying respect to the wisdom of the image. This kind of regard is always a good first step when working with dream figures. Next, come into relationship with your deep psyche by using the tools that you know: center yourself in the here and now, connect to your body, activate your senses, observe with particularity, and follow your curiosity.

Zen (Zen Arado): At first, experiencing imaginal intelligence might feel unfamiliar and perhaps uncomfortable. To feel secure in this new territory, stay focused on the now-familiar question, “Who is visiting now?” Ask the question again, but this time to the dream figure itself. Practice deep listening so you might hear if any response is forthcoming. Check in with your body, open your posture and breath. Become more receptive with each breath, and bring your attention to what originates from within the living image, allowing yourself to become ever more image-centered. As the image animates, what are you hearing, feeling, seeing? Do not wait for some lightning bolt of knowledge to illuminate you. Even if all you get is just a fragment or two, or little words, or phrases, or pictures, write these down.

Aizenstat, Stephen. Dream Tending: Awakening to the Healing Power of Dreams (pp. 53-54). Spring Journal, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

Zen (Zen Arado): done

Zen (Zen Arado): that's only the first part of it

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): he's all about bringing dream images to life

Zen (Zen Arado): I think this will work best with someone you knew well

Tura Brezoianu: I've not managed to do that, make the images come to life

Zen (Zen Arado): like your father Alma

Agatha Macbeth: No Pygmalion then

Zen (Zen Arado): there is a richness of years of experiences there then

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala) nods

Zen (Zen Arado): rather than just a stranger in a dream

Agatha Macbeth: Stranger in a dream sounds like a song

Zen (Zen Arado): I haven't managed it either Tura

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): with my father though, if he once starts talking it may be hard to get him to stop LOL

Zen (Zen Arado): I think I'll have to work at it

Zen (Zen Arado): :)

Zen (Zen Arado): well that's better than if they don't say anything

Agatha Macbeth: Now I hear Acker Bilk's clarinet

Zen (Zen Arado): stranger on the Shore

Riddle Sideways: Frank Sinatra - Strangers in the Night

Zen (Zen Arado): I was thinking about my grandparents the other day

Agatha Macbeth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jzx664u5DA

Agatha Macbeth listens

Zen (Zen Arado): they never really conversed with us at all when we were children

Zen (Zen Arado): children weren't to be talked to in those days I think

Zen (Zen Arado): for we were just talked down to

Agatha Macbeth: You were just kids...knew nowt

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala) nods

Zen (Zen Arado): if you know what I mean

Zen (Zen Arado): yes exactly

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): my grandfather was a crusty old guy

Zen (Zen Arado): and that has changed don't you think?

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): didn't seem comfortable around children

Agatha Macbeth: Hopefully!

Riddle Sideways: both told great stories tho

Zen (Zen Arado): one of my groundparents just sat in front of the black and white TV and smoked and smiled but never said anything when we came

Agatha Macbeth: Smoked what? :p

Zen (Zen Arado): he was a step grandfather

Riddle Sideways: ㋡

Zen (Zen Arado): senior service :-)

Agatha Macbeth: Ah

Agatha Macbeth: I remember them

Agatha Macbeth: And woodbines

Riddle Sideways: one grandfather told me the stories because no one else would listen

Zen (Zen Arado): I remember watching other grandfather talking to his friend smoking a pipe and spitting into the fire

Zen (Zen Arado): his friend was a dentist and he chewed tobacco :-)

Zen (Zen Arado): ugh

Agatha Macbeth: Did he say yee haw?

Zen (Zen Arado): he was my Dublin born grandfather

Agatha Macbeth: Bejasus

Zen (Zen Arado): he said bejabbers

Zen (Zen Arado): :-)

Zen (Zen Arado): honestly

Agatha Macbeth: I love the way Dubliners call a horse a hearse

Agatha Macbeth: Riding on a hearse

Zen (Zen Arado): it's a nicer softer accent than the Northern one

Riddle Sideways: of curse

Agatha Macbeth: I know someone from Limerick, lovely voice

Zen (Zen Arado): wonders if trump has Irish ancestors

Zen (Zen Arado): he might be over drinking a pint of Guinness

Agatha Macbeth: I think the CIA cloned him

Zen (Zen Arado): he doesn't drink though does he

Agatha Macbeth: I never trust someone who doesn't drink

Agatha Macbeth: Not natural

Riddle Sideways: oh read that as 'Think'

Agatha Macbeth: HA

Tura Brezoianu: that neither

Zen (Zen Arado): was watching the news footage of him yesterday

Zen (Zen Arado): it suddenly occurred to me that if a sniper had a rifle they could shoot him from the camera position couldn't they?

Zen (Zen Arado): But I have been reading too many Jack reacher novels

Agatha Macbeth grins

Tura Brezoianu: Probably big security guys beside every authorised cameraman

Agatha Macbeth: Good old Jack

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I'm sure the Secret Service has thought of that too

Zen (Zen Arado): I remember one where they could shoot someone from a thousand metres or something like that

Zen (Zen Arado): with the right gun

Zen (Zen Arado): yes plenty of CIA guys in the background

Zen (Zen Arado): the cameras are a long way away anyway, you can see them shake a little

Agatha Macbeth: Shake rattle and roll

Riddle Sideways: He seems so much nicer in your dreams, Zen

Eidolon Aeon is online.

Zen (Zen Arado): he's a really tremendous guy :-) he's the greatest guy who was ever a president :-)

Zen (Zen Arado): and so modest :-)

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): and he knows a lot of words, great words

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): he knows more words than any other president

Agatha Macbeth: Now let's return to the matrix...

Zen (Zen Arado): :-)

Agatha Macbeth: Don't unplug me Morpheus

Riddle Sideways: ㋡

Zen (Zen Arado): he uses them in his tweets too

Zen (Zen Arado): with his little thumbs

Agatha Macbeth: Which thankfully I don't read

Zen (Zen Arado): aw shouldn't mock him

Riddle Sideways: and loses train of thought from the beginning of a tweet to the end

Agatha Macbeth: Why not

Agatha Macbeth: Wonder what kind of prez Dan Quayle would have been

Riddle Sideways: looking bettter from this angle

Zen (Zen Arado): so long as he didn't have to spell potatoes

Zen (Zen Arado): :-)

Agatha Macbeth: I remember Gerald Ford was always falling over things

Riddle Sideways: and 'W' is looking better now too

Agatha Macbeth: Falling dow airplane steps

Agatha Macbeth: n

Agatha Macbeth: At this rate Nixon will be looking good too soon

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): never thought I would be nostalgic for GWB

Riddle Sideways: yep

Zen (Zen Arado): they say Clinton's ratings soared after the Monica Lewinsky thing

Agatha Macbeth: A bird in the hand...

Zen (Zen Arado): the worse you are better public like you

Agatha Macbeth thinks of Neuremburg rallies

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala) shivers

Zen (Zen Arado): straitlaced hard-working Prime Minister's like Theresa May – no one likes them

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): Trump thrives on rallies and public adulation

Agatha Macbeth: I can never see Hitler now without thinking of Chaplin in the Great Dictator

                                                                   'Je suis Charlie'

Riddle Sideways: then there was the scandal over Michelle Obama touching the Queen

Zen (Zen Arado): he loves the Royal family and all the pomp and glory

Agatha Macbeth: Hey you can't touch HRM - she might fall apart

Zen (Zen Arado): not sure they like him so much

Zen (Zen Arado): anyway I have to go

Agatha Macbeth: Aww

Zen (Zen Arado): good dreaming

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): so is the queen an untouchable?

Riddle Sideways: alrighty, take care Zen

Agatha Macbeth: I certainly wouldn't want to touch her

Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Zen

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): bye Zen, thanks for leading the group

Zen (Zen Arado): thanks for coming

Agatha Macbeth: Dream well Zenny

Zen (Zen Arado) is offline.

Riddle Sideways: Queen allows him to kiss her ring and he fist bumps her

Riddle Sideways: is that Pomp?

Agatha Macbeth: Too bad they didn't hi 5

Agatha Macbeth: YO LIZ!

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): lol

Agatha Macbeth: We really have left the matrix now

Riddle Sideways: too funny and tooo sad

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): time for me to go

Agatha Macbeth: Yeh that time

Riddle Sideways: yep

Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): thanks for sharing dreams and visions

Tura Brezoianu: thanks all, goodnight

Agatha Macbeth checks the log

Riddle Sideways: thanks All

Agatha Macbeth: Nighty night kiddywinks