25-27 - Inside and outside


    What is it that we are doing?  We are going inside and outside, flowing through.  There is a breath that moves within us and without us.  Whether we will it or no.  

    The title of the first log is how i feel...like nothing i could say would have more meaning, be more instructive than the posts themselves...i have nothing to post, so you're getting some little tastes from each log instead.

    2009.02.25 01:00 - Nothing to post

    The GOC was Tarmel Udimo and although Corvi, Gaya and Ade attended with a late arrival of Betrum it was decided that the chat wouldn't be posted but sent via email (perhaps) to the group.

    2009.02.25 07:00 - You Can't Always "Get" What you Want

    Adams Rubble: The opening the door to God was the exact same advice

    Adams Rubble: that Pema later gave me in December

    Adams Rubble: that I needed to drop my identitites in order to Listen

    Adams Rubble: At least that is the way i see it

    Adams Rubble: now

    2009.02.25 19:00 - Pushing Buttons

    stevenaia Michinaga: but I am easily entertained

    Lia Rikugun: for me it always depends who is saying it

    Lia Rikugun: i cannot easily detach

    stevenaia Michinaga: detachment=dropping

    Lia Rikugun: if it is a complete stranger who cares

    Lia Rikugun: detach from the situation or the offense

    Lia Rikugun: from me who has some negative aspects

    Lia Rikugun: which i am not happy with as well

    Lia Rikugun: usually your closest friends can point these out because they know you best

    Lia Rikugun: so this can be offending depending on how diplomatic they are

    Sylectra Darwin: I think maybe mothers are really good at getting under our skin esp. if we are daughters.

    Lia Rikugun: or fathers :)

    Lia Rikugun: as in my case :D

    Sylectra Darwin: indeed.

    buddha Nirvana: i think people like that usually push buttons because they have a difficult time understanding people. they push buttons because its there only way of knowing what others are thinking

    Sylectra Darwin: maybe people like Buddha is talking about do it because they are having trouble with empathy for another person...cannot connect because of their own mental static.

    buddha Nirvana: yeah, thats pretty accurate

    Adelene Dawner hmms.

    Adelene Dawner: Has a lot to do with 'should', I think.

    Sylectra Darwin: yes, Ade. more?

    stevenaia Michinaga: "should"? what do you mean

    Adelene Dawner: person-type-X 'should' react in way Y, so I'm going to do Z to make that happen, because it's what should happen.

    Sylectra Darwin: One person thinks the other should act in a certain way towards them, and they subjectively draw a connection between the desired behavior and their own sense that they are valued by that person. It's erroneous, of course. The other person is often unaware that they are not fulfilling their part of the script.

    Sylectra Darwin: And as we get more and more focused on our own feelings and expectations, we see less and less of the true experience of others.

    Sylectra Darwin: I liked an earlier discussion, last year here in the group, about how compassion cannot exist in the same heart space as anger.

    buddha Nirvana: the good thing about increasing empathy is that you don't lose it over night

    stevenaia Michinaga: what is "letting go" than the dropping of selfishness

    buddha Nirvana: unfortunately if your lacking compassion it can be a hard thing to cultivate

    buddha Nirvana: i think so, letting go of your own negative emotions

    stevenaia Michinaga: doesn't "openness" result in compassion rushing in?

    buddha Nirvana: it can bring about compassion i think, but i think it would be a gradual process if your not use to feeling compassion, perhaps quite a long process

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: me smiles and scritches the top of Ade's head.

    Adelene Dawner: didn't miss much tho

    2009.02.26 07:00 - Melon Collie Bleu

    Eliza Madrigal: People who are looking for offense will find it

    Samuel Okelly: my understanding of "being" does not allow for such a seperation
    Eliza Madrigal: And that's what it can feel like after someone dies and you think of them...or they think of you...like waves hitting you...pouring over
    Adelene Dawner nods at Sam.
    Adams Rubble: hmm. yes Eliza
    Caledonia Heron: yes Samuel, no separation to speak of although our minds construct little pockets, belief structures to carry us through the coporal world
    Adelene Dawner: That's pretty much what Pema means with Absolute vs. Relative, I think.
    Samuel Okelly: do our minds simply construct i wonder
    Caledonia Heron: yes, Eliza, it sort of sneaks up on you and washes over you ... sometimes at the oddest moments
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes!
    Eliza Madrigal: So not like you brought it up...not out of "coping"
    Adams Rubble gets the absolute/relative thing a bit more as we move on
    Samuel Okelly: wouldnt such a view close the door on the possibility of an objective spirituality?
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Caledonia Heron: not like parsing it to understand, it comes unbidden and permeates you
    Eliza Madrigal: More of an exhange.

    Caledonia Heron: once someone told me a story that likened having an immovable position on a topic to that of a cat that had stuck it's claws in something and would not pull them back for anything even at it's own expense .... the idea of even moving the claw did not occur to the cat .... sometimes people get on a position and can't let go

    2009.02.26 13:00 - Wol's brightly coloured pills

    Storm Nordwind: So - what i was getting at (and perhaps what Wol was about to say) - is...

    Storm Nordwind: if your experience of the place is within you, what is to stop you experiencing it without going anywhere?

    Wol Euler: right :)

    Storm Nordwind: When we feel cold we experience it inside ourselves, not outside

    Storm Nordwind: When we see beauty we experience it inside ourselves, not outside

    Storm Nordwind: So the potentiality for that experience is already there

    Fefonz Quan: you should try Princeton too, where the cold can be outside as well :)

    2009.02.26 19:00 - We're all waiting for the bus

      Corvuscorva Nightfire: thanks for the appearance of bus, Nos.
        Nostrum Forder: it runs on an ecclectic schedule
        Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
        Corvuscorva Nightfire: such that i constantly miss it.

    2009.02.27 01:00 - "B" for beginner

    Wol Euler: so the target seems to be to welcome the things that might have distracted, to see them as not-outside

    2009.02.27 07:00 - Our house

    Guest House 

    by Rumi

    This being human is a guest house.
    Every morning a new arrival.

    A joy, a depression, a meanness,
    Some momentary awareness comes
    as an unexpected visitor.

    Welcome and attend them all!
    Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows,
    who violently sweep your house
    empty of its furniture, still,
    treat each guest honorably.
    He may be clearing you out
    for some new delight.

    The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
    meet them at the door laughing,
    and invite them in.

    Be grateful for whoever comes,
    because each has been sent
    as a guide from beyond.

    Welcome difficulty.
    Learn the alchemy True Human Beings know:
    the moment you accept what troubles
    you’ve been given, the door opens.

    Welcome difficulty as a familiar
    comrade. Joke with torment
    brought by the Friend.

    Sorrows are the rags of old clothes
    and jackets that serve to cover,
    and then are taken off.

    That undressing, and the beautiful
    naked body
    is the sweetness
    that comes
    after grief.


    (translated by Coleman Barks)

    Adams Rubble: I was a bit inspired by something else this morning

    Adams Rubble: I read the log of the 1 am session

    Adams Rubble: where Wol quoted Stim about some exercises

    Adams Rubble: and Stim mentioned to look at the distractions compassionately

    Adams Rubble: I love the connection between appreciation and compassion

    Adams Rubble: It follows so nicely on the Rumi poem for me

    2009.02.27 13:00 - Exceptations & Love

        Fael Illyar: Yes, it's refreshing to take a breather from expecting. Has helped me realize I've been expecting too much from myself at times.

        Pema Pera: how so, Fael?

        Fael Illyar: Like expecting myself to be able to keep someone from committing suicide for example.

        Fael Illyar: (with just long distance communications to use for that)

        Fael Illyar: but ... I guess that's more of the more extreme case.

        Pema Pera: yes, and very hard indeed . . .

        Myna Maven: Fael, I know that has to be painful.

        Fael Illyar: after I stopped requiring that from myself, I found that the end result was that I was better able to do that as well.

        Solobill Laville: Getting out of your way, in a sense?

        Fael Illyar: Yes, exactly

        Fael Illyar: I didn't require it from myself so I no longer feared failing to achieve it. Thus didn't have the fear in the way making things more difficult.

    Storm Nordwind: To ascertain needs, you need empathy and compassion = understand, and not sympathy

        Storm Nordwind: So that is where your link between love and compassion come from

        Wol Euler thinks of "A tale of two cities" and nods at loving self-sacrifice.

        genesis Zhangsun: yes a recognition that another's needs is not separate from your own

        genesis Zhangsun: hence why I suggest dropping I, we, and you

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