25-27 - Inside and outside

What is it that we are doing?  We are going inside and outside, flowing through.  There is a breath that moves within us and without us.  Whether we will it or no.  

The title of the first log is how i feel...like nothing i could say would have more meaning, be more instructive than the posts themselves...i have nothing to post, so you're getting some little tastes from each log instead.

2009.02.25 01:00 - Nothing to post

The GOC was Tarmel Udimo and although Corvi, Gaya and Ade attended with a late arrival of Betrum it was decided that the chat wouldn't be posted but sent via email (perhaps) to the group.

2009.02.25 07:00 - You Can't Always "Get" What you Want

Adams Rubble: The opening the door to God was the exact same advice

Adams Rubble: that Pema later gave me in December

Adams Rubble: that I needed to drop my identitites in order to Listen

Adams Rubble: At least that is the way i see it

Adams Rubble: now

2009.02.25 19:00 - Pushing Buttons

stevenaia Michinaga: but I am easily entertained

Lia Rikugun: for me it always depends who is saying it

Lia Rikugun: i cannot easily detach

stevenaia Michinaga: detachment=dropping

Lia Rikugun: if it is a complete stranger who cares

Lia Rikugun: detach from the situation or the offense

Lia Rikugun: from me who has some negative aspects

Lia Rikugun: which i am not happy with as well

Lia Rikugun: usually your closest friends can point these out because they know you best

Lia Rikugun: so this can be offending depending on how diplomatic they are

Sylectra Darwin: I think maybe mothers are really good at getting under our skin esp. if we are daughters.

Lia Rikugun: or fathers :)

Lia Rikugun: as in my case :D

Sylectra Darwin: indeed.

buddha Nirvana: i think people like that usually push buttons because they have a difficult time understanding people. they push buttons because its there only way of knowing what others are thinking

Sylectra Darwin: maybe people like Buddha is talking about do it because they are having trouble with empathy for another person...cannot connect because of their own mental static.

buddha Nirvana: yeah, thats pretty accurate

Adelene Dawner hmms.

Adelene Dawner: Has a lot to do with 'should', I think.

Sylectra Darwin: yes, Ade. more?

stevenaia Michinaga: "should"? what do you mean

Adelene Dawner: person-type-X 'should' react in way Y, so I'm going to do Z to make that happen, because it's what should happen.

Sylectra Darwin: One person thinks the other should act in a certain way towards them, and they subjectively draw a connection between the desired behavior and their own sense that they are valued by that person. It's erroneous, of course. The other person is often unaware that they are not fulfilling their part of the script.

Sylectra Darwin: And as we get more and more focused on our own feelings and expectations, we see less and less of the true experience of others.

Sylectra Darwin: I liked an earlier discussion, last year here in the group, about how compassion cannot exist in the same heart space as anger.

buddha Nirvana: the good thing about increasing empathy is that you don't lose it over night

stevenaia Michinaga: what is "letting go" than the dropping of selfishness

buddha Nirvana: unfortunately if your lacking compassion it can be a hard thing to cultivate

buddha Nirvana: i think so, letting go of your own negative emotions

stevenaia Michinaga: doesn't "openness" result in compassion rushing in?

buddha Nirvana: it can bring about compassion i think, but i think it would be a gradual process if your not use to feeling compassion, perhaps quite a long process

Corvuscorva Nightfire: me smiles and scritches the top of Ade's head.

Adelene Dawner: didn't miss much tho

2009.02.26 07:00 - Melon Collie Bleu

Eliza Madrigal: People who are looking for offense will find it

Samuel Okelly: my understanding of "being" does not allow for such a seperation
Eliza Madrigal: And that's what it can feel like after someone dies and you think of them...or they think of you...like waves hitting you...pouring over
Adelene Dawner nods at Sam.
Adams Rubble: hmm. yes Eliza
Caledonia Heron: yes Samuel, no separation to speak of although our minds construct little pockets, belief structures to carry us through the coporal world
Adelene Dawner: That's pretty much what Pema means with Absolute vs. Relative, I think.
Samuel Okelly: do our minds simply construct i wonder
Caledonia Heron: yes, Eliza, it sort of sneaks up on you and washes over you ... sometimes at the oddest moments
Eliza Madrigal: Yes!
Eliza Madrigal: So not like you brought it up...not out of "coping"
Adams Rubble gets the absolute/relative thing a bit more as we move on
Samuel Okelly: wouldnt such a view close the door on the possibility of an objective spirituality?
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Caledonia Heron: not like parsing it to understand, it comes unbidden and permeates you
Eliza Madrigal: More of an exhange.

Caledonia Heron: once someone told me a story that likened having an immovable position on a topic to that of a cat that had stuck it's claws in something and would not pull them back for anything even at it's own expense .... the idea of even moving the claw did not occur to the cat .... sometimes people get on a position and can't let go

2009.02.26 13:00 - Wol's brightly coloured pills

Storm Nordwind: So - what i was getting at (and perhaps what Wol was about to say) - is...

Storm Nordwind: if your experience of the place is within you, what is to stop you experiencing it without going anywhere?

Wol Euler: right :)

Storm Nordwind: When we feel cold we experience it inside ourselves, not outside

Storm Nordwind: When we see beauty we experience it inside ourselves, not outside

Storm Nordwind: So the potentiality for that experience is already there

Fefonz Quan: you should try Princeton too, where the cold can be outside as well :)

2009.02.26 19:00 - We're all waiting for the bus

  Corvuscorva Nightfire: thanks for the appearance of bus, Nos.
    Nostrum Forder: it runs on an ecclectic schedule
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: such that i constantly miss it.

2009.02.27 01:00 - "B" for beginner

Wol Euler: so the target seems to be to welcome the things that might have distracted, to see them as not-outside

2009.02.27 07:00 - Our house

Guest House 

by Rumi

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,
Some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and attend them all!
Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture, still,
treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.

Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

Welcome difficulty.
Learn the alchemy True Human Beings know:
the moment you accept what troubles
you’ve been given, the door opens.

Welcome difficulty as a familiar
comrade. Joke with torment
brought by the Friend.

Sorrows are the rags of old clothes
and jackets that serve to cover,
and then are taken off.

That undressing, and the beautiful
naked body
underneath,
is the sweetness
that comes
after grief.

   

(translated by Coleman Barks)

Adams Rubble: I was a bit inspired by something else this morning

Adams Rubble: I read the log of the 1 am session

Adams Rubble: where Wol quoted Stim about some exercises

Adams Rubble: and Stim mentioned to look at the distractions compassionately

Adams Rubble: I love the connection between appreciation and compassion

Adams Rubble: It follows so nicely on the Rumi poem for me

2009.02.27 13:00 - Exceptations & Love

    Fael Illyar: Yes, it's refreshing to take a breather from expecting. Has helped me realize I've been expecting too much from myself at times.

    Pema Pera: how so, Fael?

    Fael Illyar: Like expecting myself to be able to keep someone from committing suicide for example.

    Fael Illyar: (with just long distance communications to use for that)

    Fael Illyar: but ... I guess that's more of the more extreme case.

    Pema Pera: yes, and very hard indeed . . .

    Myna Maven: Fael, I know that has to be painful.

    Fael Illyar: after I stopped requiring that from myself, I found that the end result was that I was better able to do that as well.

    Solobill Laville: Getting out of your way, in a sense?

    Fael Illyar: Yes, exactly

    Fael Illyar: I didn't require it from myself so I no longer feared failing to achieve it. Thus didn't have the fear in the way making things more difficult.

Storm Nordwind: To ascertain needs, you need empathy and compassion = understand, and not sympathy

    Storm Nordwind: So that is where your link between love and compassion come from

    Wol Euler thinks of "A tale of two cities" and nods at loving self-sacrifice.

    genesis Zhangsun: yes a recognition that another's needs is not separate from your own

    genesis Zhangsun: hence why I suggest dropping I, we, and you