13-15 - Dancing conversation

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    The scribe for this period was Wester Kiranov. The order of quoted conversations may have been altered for more clarity, and typos were corrected.

    The loveliest thing about these conversations is not what is said exactly, but how the conversation flows, dances, from one person back to another and another. Of course there are rough patches, misunderstandings, conversations that go nowhere, but very often it just works. Serious sometimes, playful at others, until the playfulness and the seriousness merge and everyone is smiling.

    So, what did we talk about?

    Pema Pera: . . . there is no way to get back on
    Pema Pera: since there is no way to fall off
    Pema Pera: but we think often that we have fallen off
    Eliza Madrigal: :) since there is no rope
    Pema Pera: and no us either :)
    Eliza Madrigal: nothing at all
    Pema Pera: yet we have to see that -- declaring it to be so would be abstract and not really useful

    group dynamics
    Pema Pera: it seems that PaB as a whole is going through a wave of new energy
    Pema Pera: interesting, isn't it, how groups have moods like individuals have

    muddy waters
    Wester Kiranov: I think we all are here to help each other unmuddy our waters
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or..to listen as we each unmuddy our own!
    Wester Kiranov: or find that there isn't any difference between our own and others'
    Fefonz Quan: (or throw mud across the pool :))

    spiritual encounters
    Mickorod Renard: If one has a spiritual encounter, it is deeply personal and no doubt individual
    Fefonz Quan: encounter suggests someone else is involved
    Wol Euler: God perhaps? or Being?
    Fefonz Quan: well God is not on my list, and Being is not someone (and surely not else ;-))

    Seeing the world as fiction
    Pema Pera: would anyone like to comment about the pros and cons of "seeing the world as a fiction" ?
    Pila Mulligan: my usual reaction to describing reality as a fiction is to disagree, as I see reality as being exactly what it seems to be -- but in this context it seems to serve a valuable purpose.
    Stim Morane: Yes, Pila. We turn ourselves into fictions by being caught up in representations beyond what's useful. But we are not in fact fictions.
    Storm Nordwind: A danger of seeing it as a fiction, especially for story-tellers, is that you may try to create your own fiction in the belief that it harms no one else. That could be catastrophic.
    Stim Morane: Yes, Storm, I agree. This trap is commonly sprung.
    Qt Core: another danger if reality is fiction.... why should I involve myself in it, it is not worth the pain. Even if reality is real some (and myself too sometimes) wonder if getting involved in it have some sense.
    Fefonz Quan: or it can just get meaningless
    aurel Miles: maybe because fiction is often at least as true as "fact"
    Stim Morane: Yes, Aurel. "Fiction" is an ambiguous term here. It can refer to some of humanity's best attempts to express and experience many essential aspects of existence, and is much more revealing than many matters of ordinary fact.
    Fefonz Quan: I would like to say about this Doing, that my main concern with this fiction/non fiction, is because when I practice appearances, sometimes it leads me to feel very distanced from things and people, like they are part of a movie (including my body at times).
    Stim Morane: Yes, that was part of my concern too.
    Fefonz Quan: and it shows that the feeling of 'everything is unreal' can be experienced in our practices and I guess there is something wrong with it.
    Stim Morane: Better to go the other way. Being more fully engaged.

    Stim Morane: in higher time, there is no "existence", but rather openness.
    Stim Morane: it is boundless, in a way that also welcomes boundaries.
    Stim Morane: true openness is not picky.
    Stim Morane: we don't need to see things as appearances in order to lighten things up
    Stim Morane: the things themselves are light, open

    Debate itself
    Resting Thor: we'd have to pretend to disagree to debate it
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Threedee Shepherd: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: It's way too easy to disagree - words are slippery


    Threedee Shepherd: When I was a young reductionist (by training) I thought Varela's writings were crazy if not irrelevant. he has become much better since then ;>
    Pila Mulligan: how so Threedee?
    Eos Amaterasu: Like wine
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, matured :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, I hope I did ^.^

    Logos vs. dharma
    How PaB fits in with Bönpo
    Islam vs Buddhism
    Whether to have a PaB retreat center, and where to have it
    Landowning in SL
    What we did at Easter
    Australian weather
    Facebook settings

    and of course we've been trying on bunny ears.

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