28-30 - Being tastes like strawberries

A long strange trip

Strannik Zipper: Sounds a bit like Mr. Gurdjieff's "stop" exercise, but a bit more flexible
Travieso Sella: hehe
Pema Pera: I'm interested in exloring the nature of reality
Pema Pera: and I like to share that with friends who have similar interests
Pema Pera: what did Gurdjieff do/say, Strannik?
Strannik Zipper: Here is a brief description:
Strannik Zipper: The Stop Exercise is said to be impossible to do on your own. The aim is to immediately stop whatever you're doing and freeze in that position, mentally, emotionally and physically, so that you can observe your current inner state. The command must come from an external source such as the person or Teacher giving the command to stop. When you freeze you should observe the state of your physical, emotional and intellectual centers and evaluate if you were Remembering yourself at the time or were Identified. Note your physical position, your emotional state and the thoughts in your intellectual center. Were you in a physically balanced and stable position or in an awkward one? Were you worried, angry, depressed or happy? Were you thinking about the past or future or what other people thought about you? Were you aware of your surroundings or lost in an inner world of subjective concerns?
Pema Pera: well, I guess we are attempting to do the impossible here, Strannik, welcome to a strange club!
Fael Illyar: :)

Words for felt experience

Threedee Shepherd: So if I say to you that in my last 9 sec experience, I found that being tastes like strawberries and has a runny gel-like texture, is that at all useful
Strannik Zipper: once in a while you can have a sublime intersubjective experience, like when you and someone you know, look at a thing, and you both laugh, and you both know why you are both laughing without any words at all - or you really know what the other is thinking
Eos Amaterasu: the laughter is the confirmation
Pema Pera: yes, Threedee, it tells me a lot about your understanding of Being :-)
Strannik Zipper: right, which is underscorred with a deep sense of knowing - no words may be exchanged, but if they were, you already know what they would be
Threedee Shepherd: Stannik, I'm laughing at the funny noses, you at how then interfere with kissing. We SEEM to agree, but don't
Pila Mulligan: please define strawberry, Threedee :)
Threedee Shepherd: strawberry is the taste of strawberry jello
Pila Mulligan: thank you
Pila Mulligan: god is the taste of love
Threedee Shepherd: Pila, I cannot, of course, that is the problem with primary qualities (qualia)
Pila Mulligan: sounded good to me
Eos Amaterasu: but even the misunderstanding about what we're laughing about may disclose Being
Threedee Shepherd: no Pila, love is the taste of God
Pila Mulligan: ah, so easy to get them backwards :)
Threedee Shepherd: Or perhaps love is the taste of Dog
Strannik Zipper: It may be right both ways :)
Threedee Shepherd: Or perhaps vole is the taste of dog.....
Strannik Zipper: haha that is also true :)
Pila Mulligan: never et dawg

Presence as communication

Strannik Zipper: I would say that the experience of presence goes beyond what may be identified by the intellect alone
Tarmel Udimo: agree
Tarmel Udimo: so presence communicating?
Strannik Zipper: we were talking about how when someone communicates their experience in such a way, it can change the person receiving the communication
Tarmel Udimo: oral transmission
Strannik Zipper: right, but sometimes it can even be wordless
Tarmel Udimo: yes i think this is very powerful
Tarmel Udimo: being in the presence of someone who is centred in Being
Strannik Zipper: for example, when you meet someone with a concentrated attention, calm and vibrant, it changes the entire atmosphere around the communication
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: its great to be in the presence of someone like that
Tarmel Udimo: I think they have to be experiencing it themselves its not an intelectual thing
Strannik Zipper: exactly - and then they can transmit in a non-intellectual way
Tarmel Udimo: and you can hear when someone speaks from mind and when someone speaks from Being
Tarmel Udimo: or as you have pointed out transmit without speaking
Tarmel Udimo: have you encountered this either of you?
sophia Placebo: i guess
Strannik Zipper: I have in a few different contexts
Tarmel Udimo: would you both like to say more?
Tarmel Udimo: in PaB we try to look at our actual exepriences which is why I am asking
sophia Placebo: i'm trying to transfer it to words :)
Tarmel Udimo: nods:)
Tarmel Udimo: I feel that very strongly when Pema speaks, even though its in chat, I get a very strong sense of something being transmitted
sophia Placebo: ear fall in love befor the eye : thats what i experiance in sl , though it might not be -love- but getting comfort around some people more than others
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Strannik Zipper: hmmmm
sophia Placebo: if i get the idea of it
Strannik Zipper: I would suspect that different people are attuned to different things - for one it might be the quality of voice
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Strannik Zipper: for another, the quality of the gaze, or the way the person moves
Strannik Zipper: for another, what is actually said, etc.
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Tarmel Udimo: and also where we are at ourselves
Strannik Zipper: A person with a strong presence, will manifest that in several different ways that will affect people differently
Tarmel Udimo: true prescence seems to be able to communicate with everyone at their own level
Tarmel Udimo: heheh we have said the same thing
Strannik Zipper: it is communicated through relationship
Strannik Zipper: and perhaps the ultimate is the relationship to being - to experience the presence of being itself
Tarmel Udimo: yes it is the ultimate relationship:)
Tarmel Udimo: what about your experiences Strannik?
Strannik Zipper: well, there have been some amazing meetings with saints and zen masters, but really every meeting is special if I am paying attention
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: was there one that really struck home?
Strannik Zipper: I'm trying to think of one of the more extraordinary ones
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: or one that really affected your heart:)
Strannik Zipper: right
Strannik Zipper: I have some friends that are monks
Strannik Zipper: I have gone a few times to try to talk about some problems with one
Strannik Zipper: but as soon as I got in his presence, all of the problems dissolved in me like a cloud
Tarmel Udimo: nice
Strannik Zipper: sort of embarrassing, because the he asked me "what did you want to talk about" and I think I said "never mind" :)
Tarmel Udimo: grins
sophia Placebo: :)
Tarmel Udimo: did the problems dissolve?
Strannik Zipper: yes - instantly
Tarmel Udimo: or was it your attitude that changed after sitting with the monk?
Strannik Zipper: I was exposed to that higher presence, and they just dissolved
Strannik Zipper: a lot of such problems are just thoughts
Tarmel Udimo: so were the problems internal worrying?
Tarmel Udimo: yes I agree
Strannik Zipper: worrying, calculating, thinking, all of the usual suspects
Tarmel Udimo: hahahaha
Strannik Zipper: one of the things that intense presence does, is quiet the mind
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: and we can see clearly
sophia Placebo: peace in heart

Strannik Zipper: I just came here from a roleplay sim - which was causing me to think of other ways in which people "roleplay" in life
Strannik Zipper: adopt different roles or identifications at different times
Strannik Zipper: in a game it is one thing
Strannik Zipper: but it ocurred to me that the dynamic of roleplaying actually takes place in various ways in the midst of life as well
Adams Rubble nods
Adams Rubble: We can learn much about that in second life
Strannik Zipper: which is a way of focusing in one sense, but limiting being in another
Adams Rubble nods
Adams Rubble: Hello Henry
Adams Rubble: Our identities make us react differently at different times
Adams Rubble: it is hard to know that without doing some role playing
Adams Rubble: is that what you were getting at?
Strannik Zipper: right - some teachers have suggested that we are many people - that the mulitple personality disorder is only an advanced form of the human condition
Adams Rubble nods
Strannik Zipper: but that there is an essential background of awareness that is present through all of these roles
Adams Rubble: I have been playing with that in SL :)
Adams Rubble: Some of mine were fighting with each other
Strannik Zipper: in SL it can become more obvious, because you can change your av with your mood
Adams Rubble: yes
Adams Rubble: helpful
Strannik Zipper: I have seen a few different traditions that seem to address this in the same way
Adams Rubble: What you say is interesting. I have found more awareness in being able to drop them
Adams Rubble: let them go and there is a burden lifted from my shoulders
Adams Rubble: but then again, I am learning more to accept them
Strannik Zipper: right - they actually limit the personality in some way
Adams Rubble: yes

Eos Amaterasu: sometime, put together the last page of Ulysses with the last page of Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind
Pila Mulligan: what do you get?
Eos Amaterasu: side by side
Pila Mulligan: can you reveal the result?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh will do that, Eos
Eos Amaterasu: complementary reflections of something hard to say :-)
Pila Mulligan: The final words of Molly's reverie, and the very last words of the book, are:

"...I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes. "

Pila Mulligan: yes we can :)
Pila Mulligan: so far I can only find the forest pages of Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind on line
Eliza Madrigal: :) I have it on only audio.... let me see..."In the morning...
Eos Amaterasu: 

"One thing flows into another and cannot be grasped. Before the rain stops we hear a bird. Even under the heavy snow we see snowdrops and some new growth. In the East I saw rhubarb already. In Japan in the spring we eat cucumbers."

Eliza Madrigal: Ah yes...in the spring..
Eliza Madrigal: MMMMMM. Nice Eos.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: You brought it out, thank you :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Se Lah