01 - 03 First to third

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    November first to third


    From autumn to winter


    death to life


    past the past


    and back again


    ----- just flowing

    no way to get stuck

    unless fear remains unknown


    -- Hana F.


    Clouds in an empty sky



    Eliza Madrigal: http://members.optushome.com.au/davi...tings/Song.htm

    Adams Dubrovna: I think of art as a way of meditating outwardly sometimes
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, yes
    Zen Arado: abstract need something intuitive I think
    Eliza Madrigal: I've experienced that, but only once have I been able to come out of the experience and been satisfied with the work that remained enough to share it
    Eliza Madrigal: It is a marvelous feeling...guess a bit like how we live.. dive into experience
    Eliza Madrigal: and hope to let it go with a sense of satisfaction


    Adams Dubrovna: Often times we throw out thoughts here at PaB
    Adams Dubrovna: sometimes they really touch someone
    Adams Dubrovna: they are what someone is looking for
    Adams Dubrovna: others may find them meaningless
    Adams Dubrovna: art is like that
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Adams Dubrovna: once in a while we say something that touches many people


    Handling emotional problems in the PaB Community: Fourth Guardian Meeting


    Pema Pera: one thing to keep in mind is this: if we meet a friend with a splinter in a finger, we may help to pull it out, but if the friend has a broken leg, we'd better not try to tinker it . . . something similar holds for emotional problems, especially in a virtual world where we know even less about someone's deepseated problems than we do in RL.
    Pema Pera: *with it
    genesis Zhangsun: yes Pema I agree but perahaps I would say in either the case of splinter or broken leg, our role as PaBers is never to "try to fix"
    genesis Zhangsun: never to have the intention of "fixing"
    Pema Pera: sure, but well meant tinkering can still be damaging
    Pema Pera: we all have the tendency to try to help, soothe, cheer up, etc :)


    genesis Zhangsun: I think the intention is to be "helpful" not to try to help. soothe, cheer up. "Helpful" might include those things but not necessarily.
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: not goal oriented
    Pema Pera: (which is hard!)
    Neela Blaisdale: I tjink it's always OK to suggest that people seek more support in RL ...
    Neela Blaisdale: not to psh them away but to broaden their options


    Stuck stuck stuck



    Caledonia Heron: so how have the 9sec or whichever practice you do, how is that going?
    Gaya Ethaniel: A bit stuck at the moment but I think I know what I may try next.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Stim said something about next step on last Thursday, listening to little positive voices. I want to start giving more focus on that because I'm getting pretty good with where things are going 'wrong'.
    Caledonia Heron: yeah, "wrong" stuff is easy to find :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes but very difficult to practice ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Because it's not easy to stay with the moment and face oneself ... you know what I mean?


    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, i see clouded sky and colorful tree´s because it´s fall, i hear the fan of my computer with totally dosn´t fit into that picture :)


    Mickorod Renard: I love the seasons and the re birth
    Gaya Ethaniel: But don't worry about it Eden :)
    Mickorod Renard: out with old in with new
    Zen Arado: not much change in seasons in some countries
    Mickorod Renard: but I feel the darkness and cold coming
    SophiaSharon Larnia: change in season has it own delights, like hay rides and apple cider


    Eden Haiku: I like darkness, it is a safe haven.
    Wol Euler: actually, most people who survive near-death experiences talk about "bright light" rather than darkness...
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eden Haiku: I used too, but not anymore no...
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Wol Euler: darkness is possibly our fear and uncertainty than their experience.
    Wol Euler: *rather than
    Scathach Rhiadra: I have always thought of what we come from and go to as luminous
    SophiaSharon Larnia: switching a light on reveals things that are hard to look at


    Mickorod Renard: I like light
    Bertram Jacobus: may be we come and go from and to nowhere ...


    Gaya Ethaniel: Why do you think that Scath?
    Mickorod Renard: but as with autumn, maybe its like a flower opening and closing
    Scathach Rhiadra: just do:))
    Scathach Rhiadra: luminosity = knowing, cognisance
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ... darkness always feel like narrowing down to me.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and the opposite? forgetting
    Gaya Ethaniel: But season changes are about cycles I think.
    Wol Euler: the cartoon light bulb-above-your-head of understanding or invention


    More on changing seasons


    Eden Haiku: yes, before death we humans have to go through getting old, and getting sick. The luck ones.;-)
    Riddle Sideways: would somebody please take a photo
    Eden Haiku: May I ask why the horse archmage?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes you may Eden
    Riddle Sideways: my pics never turn out good
    Storm Nordwind: But people are anxious about the journey of death, Eden. Just like those people Riddle obsevered in the airport
    Storm Nordwind: *observed
    Moon Fargis: having fear of death is just the fear of unknown


    Riddle Sideways: like the fear of flying (questionable book)




    Back to the present



    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have been thinking a bit lately of 'sharing' space, how is it held, and shared?
    Eden Haiku: Deep question.
    Tarmel Udimo: being attentive, present, open watching life unfold and yet still engaged
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so it is the engagment that is the sharing? engagement with others and what is going on
    doug Sosa: Related, and not, to private property, and why do we think of our life more in time spent than in space traveled?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Pema Pera: engagement seems to be the one thing that all traditions share, much more important than anything else . . . whether meditating, praying, working for social causes, the environment, anything.
    Paradise Tennant: hmm close ness .. mutual perceptions .. experiences . open communication .. a sense of being part of ... i guess all relate to engagement
    Pema Pera: Any story about any wise woman or man in history starts with a description of how engaged they were
    Paradise Tennant: engaged=present


    Pila Mulligan: sharing and holding space can realte to time, also -- the word kalpa usually refers to an extremely long period of time -- close to infinite, but not quite -- I once heard a teacher use the term kalpa also to describe a mind moment -- such that we may have a moment where our mind approaches a perception of nearly infinite duration -- so sharing and holding space may realte to sharing and holding a particularly meaningful time
    doug Sosa: but engagementadds a dimension. comes from french for "pledge"
    Benedizione Vita: still, you need some amount of time in each country--maybe its a ct (countries times time) formula ;^)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (or a interesting!!!
    Tarmel Udimo: nice one Pila:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ( minus or a...typo)
    Pema Pera: yes, Pila, a way to approach timeless time, through a backdoor of time so to speak
    doug Sosa: time and sapce seem like two ways of looking at the same thing - except for reversibility ??
    Pema Pera: in a lived sense they are quite different; time has more connection with energy
    Tarmel Udimo: and yet it feels like we need to occupy space to be able to sense time
    Tarmel Udimo: time and energy - can you say more Pema?
    doug Sosa: Pema, how? Why? don't see it.
    Pema Pera: well, space as such offers possibilities
    Pema Pera: room
    Pema Pera: while time is associated with motion, growth, development
    Tarmel Udimo: space needed to be created, before time could be experienced?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so space is the anticipation, the 'pregnant pause' and time is the moving?
    Pema Pera: yes, I think that is part of it, Sophia
    Eden Haiku: I like that. The pregnant pause,
    Paradise Tennant: hmm was listening to a time expert ..who is suggesting time is more like geography that we may move on but the moments are more like hills they stay .. this moment we have together stays somewhere but our attention ..moves to the next ..moment .they are akin to hills
    Pema Pera: creating itself presupposes time, interestingly . . .

    Tarmel Udimo: yes the old question of what came before....
    Eden Haiku: I heard once time is holographic. Past lives, present lives, futures lives all at the same «time».
    SophiaSharon Larnia: seeing hills of time Paradise, interesting :))
    Paradise Tennant: hmm blinking for his name

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