07-09 - Chirping at Night

(Eliza Scribing in progress - filling in for Fox)

.Scathach Rhiadra: inner stillness sometimes seems even better than silence
Gaya Ethaniel: Is it possible to appreciate silence without inner stillness?
Trevor Berensohn: Heheh otherwise, silence can seem pretty oppressive
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, good question, I don't know
Scathach Rhiadra: but you can have inner stillness without silence

Bertrum Quan: I think the notion of awakening involves all of our senses.
Trevor Berensohn contemplates what Bert said..
Scathach Rhiadra: a present awareness of everything ?

Gaya Ethaniel: How was the session yesterday with the RL retreat? I couldn't make it.
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, it was interesting
Trevor Berensohn wasn't there either
Bertrum Quan: Scath, can you tell us more about it?
Scathach Rhiadra: a lot of people turned up, and about 6 from the retreat... most of the talk was about the place itself / it seems they have had some meetings aout future retreats, so were talking about next year in Germany
Trevor Berensohn: Oh wow
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, the only practice they talked about was using the basic stop and drop, see what you are for one session / they seemed very happy and um, giddy, about it all:)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Trevor Berensohn: Awww that makes me happy

~~
sophia Placebo: i was thinking about this , since the first time i read the group name but i kept the question until i become more familiar with the group practice ,hmm im not sure how i should play as being i mean im being already i dont have to play being one
doug Sosa: being can be done by a kind of frozen seriousness. Play asks to loosen the boundaries and let imagination and events flow a bit more. My understanding.

sophia Placebo: i was wondering about what is the meaning of the group name and if im undrstanding the practice correctly
Qt Core: it seem this is a question the pab base day session, i was thinking about asking about the pab symbol, especially the rotating one on the column... it remind me too much about Sauron flaming eye ;-)
Fael Illyar laughs.
sophia Placebo: hehe Qt
Fael Illyar: the symbolism in the symbol is light rays from emptiness.
Fael Illyar: 9 for 9 seconds and 4 for 4 sessions per day if I rememer right
Qt Core: i find nice that they are outgoing rays and not the opposite as not for closiong inwardly
Fael Illyar: and it's not perfect circle in the center :)
sophia Placebo: not sure about playing as enjoying , not sure if being in the title is meant to be self , more of Being with capital re Qt and doug

Fael Illyar: however, "Play as Being", as the name indicates exploration of reality by playing you're something playing to be human.
sophia Placebo: i dont know :)) im trying to find out
Bertram Jacobus: ah. fael ? could you explain it perhaps ?
Fael Illyar: I don't know exactly. It was supposed to point at whatever sophia had in mind.
sophia Placebo: like im rabbit playing to be human
Fael Illyar: no no
Bertram Jacobus: lol
Fael Illyar: like you're Being playing to be human
sophia Placebo: lol nicest conversation in pab so far fael
Qt Core: like forgetting the quirks, errors and fault of qt and playing being a "random uman" ?
Bertram Jacobus: may be it is meant that all are parts of the universe ... ;-)
Fael Illyar: I wonder how long it has been since people had a conversation abot what Being is.

Fael Illyar: although, if we're talking about different views... Being is not something with a different view but all views.
Bertram Jacobus: or no view at the end
Qt Core: time to go for me, what a pity it was a nice sometime a little absurd conversation ;-)

~~

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi! we're in the middle of exercises Pila, everyone says hi!!! Pema, Steve, Eliza, Paradise, Eos - and Being says Hi :)
Pila Mulligan: aloha everyone
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Pila Mulligan: who is this Being? :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: Being seeing :)

Pila Mulligan: hi Arabella, welcome back form India
arabella Ella: what I found amazing though was
arabella Ella: they are so rich in culture and tradition and other stuff too
arabella Ella: yet ... there is both chaos and serenity
arabella Ella: overlapping
Pila Mulligan: :)
arabella Ella: in an incredibly beautiful way/ but
arabella Ella: it is also a sad place in other respects

arabella Ella: the main lesson i think i learnt ... hopefully ... is
arabella Ella: why cant each one of us try to make a small difference like ripples in a pond which when considered together make a huge difference
Mickorod Renard: I found it sort of is like putting your idea's of values in a bag and shaking them up,,then letting them fall and seeing if they are the same as they were

~~

Eden Haiku: Is onigooko an hawaiian name Pila? Or japanese?
Pila Mulligan: Japanese I think
genesis Zhangsun: yes japanese
genesis Zhangsun: I think it is the game of tag
Pila Mulligan: g is not a Hawaiian letter
Eden Haiku: No g in Hawaian language? How is it called this language?
Pila Mulligan: The alphabet contains 12 letters: 5 vowels (a, e, i, o, u) and 7 consonants (h, k, l, m, n, p, w).
Pila Mulligan: from http://www.alternative-hawaii.com/alpha.htm
Eden Haiku: Thanks
Pila Mulligan: it was invented by missionaries as Hawaiians had no written language

Eden Haiku: I think Wikipedia is derived from the hawaian word wiki-wiki which means fast. Or is a maori word?
Pila Mulligan: yes, wiki is hawaiian for hurry

Eden Haiku: How was your retreat Steve?
genesis Zhangsun: yes Steve tell us about that
stevenaia Michinaga: the retreat was lovely
stevenaia Michinaga: highly recommended :)

genesis Zhangsun: did Pema lay out his 5 level scheme ending in "radical openess"?
stevenaia Michinaga: not today
genesis Zhangsun: "Time-Life" approach?
stevenaia Michinaga: touched on that / stevenaia Michinaga: (I think)
stevenaia Michinaga: more basic ideas Ys Bs, thought arising
stevenaia Michinaga: for varying time periods
stevenaia Michinaga: with follow up discussions
stevenaia Michinaga: and a nice histoical perspective of PaB from pema

stevenaia Michinaga: actually, there was a profound sence of change in the energy level preceived by two
of the group doing one minute of "You Seeing and then changing to Being Seeing
stevenaia Michinaga: we also did some 10 minute sessions of other focused meditation
genesis Zhangsun: did you notice a difference between shorter meditations and longer ones?
stevenaia Michinaga: a nice variety
stevenaia Michinaga: the shorter one minute times were just right, and the 10 minute sessions were to short
stevenaia Michinaga: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: that was a more view of letting go, which allowed for a sort of annimated dialog
to appear for myself, a linear storyboard of ideas for me that could have continued for quite some time
... perhaps years :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
~~

Qt Core: or you may break one or all the rules if you do not more believe in the underlying values
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Moon Fargis: hmm or when theses values are gone?
Gaya Ethaniel: So what are the underlying values of the Catholic ethical codes in your opinion Qt?
Stargate Tone: and more 'naturally working' values understood...
Moon Fargis: heh/ its intresting
Moon Fargis: most religion try to teach the human..
Moon Fargis: not to be human

Gaya Ethaniel: I think the greatest punishment is torment of guilt inside.
Moon Fargis: we should not set rule and law 1 to 1
Stargate Tone: well; some people dont feel bad even they steel or lie
Moon Fargis: well yes many people have no guilt
Moon Fargis: cud they dont care
Gaya Ethaniel nods. It is easy to get blind and life is not easy ... not to be so.
Moon Fargis: about rules
Sunfire Langer: Objectivists pose a new challenge to deontological thinking too
Moon Fargis: well we just babble around :)
Gaya Ethaniel: big word! deontology - The science of duty; that branch of knowledge which deals with moral obligations; ethics.
Gaya Ethaniel: What are objectivists? Goal-orientated people?
Gaya Ethaniel: ah being objective ...
Sunfire Langer: they argue that reason alone should be the source of moral guidance, and that what is morally good is what is valuable
Moon Fargis: who defines moraly good and bad ?
Gaya Ethaniel: Is this reason something akin to Kant's reason?
Sunfire Langer: Its actually Ayn Rands criticism of Kants moral philosophy

~~

Eos Amaterasu: Actually, 99% of my thoughts just happen
Eos Amaterasu: I think that "I" think them, but I notice that really they just come up
Adams Dubrovna: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: plenty of room for them to be someone elses
Eos Amaterasu: Most of them are / We repeat phrases and cliches
stevenaia Michinaga: we say creativity "happens", as do "new" ideas, perhaps they are placed there by our good fairy when needed

Adams Dubrovna: I was very aware of how the senses trigger thoughts but when I close my eyes, it seems to be a random generator / as you noted Eos, there is a collection of other peoples thoughts seekingly stored there

Eos Amaterasu: Watching things happen out the window, squirrels, some planning thoughts coming up,they just come up/ busy place, my mind
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Adams Dubrovna: like squirrels :)  ?

~~

Pema Pera: If I may switch the topic, given that we don't seem to converge: another topic we talked about during the Princeton retreat was "unconditional confidence", a kind of confidence not based on any particular ground -- the conversation had started with the experience of a kind of groundlessness which we may encounter in our practice
Pema Pera: and we also talked about the need to ground ourselves in the relative world, in daily life
Pema Pera: and the tension between the two, groundedness and ungroundedness, simultaneously
Storm Nordwind: I love the phrase "unconditional confidence", which very well describes many of my experiences. But I need to check whether you're instead talking of confidentiality
Pema Pera: confidence as in having confidence in one actions and approach
Storm Nordwind: thanks
Pema Pera: by fully going into what appears rather than relying on concepts and constructions
Riddle Sideways: and the confidence of the lack there of :)
Storm Nordwind: I recognize the experience of decide to "become" and thereafter it just "is" (and perhaps always "was is"). What came out of your discussions Pema?
Pema Pera: No specific outcome, but we shared our experiences and our struggles with how to integrate those insights into daily life
Pema Pera: it is interesting how such kind of confidence can be presented as a kind of "blind belief" which is some ways is the opposite
Storm Nordwind: I completely agree! And integration is a goldmine of insight for possibly future discussion!
SophiaSharon Larnia: it really is

~~
Wol Euler: perhaps that's one of the differences between religion and belief: that you need an Us and a Them for a religion?
Fox Monacular: Mircea Eliade has an interesting book - the sacred and the prophane
Fox Monacular: talking about how even in the secular world we still engage in religious behavious
Wol Euler: say more, fox?
Fox Monacular: hmm, from what I remember, for instance, we organize our dwelling in a cosmological way... and one would never, say, open a new research center without a ceremony, and a dedication, and important people are present... like an offering
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Fox Monacular: http://www.bytrent.demon.co.uk/eliadecom02.html - there are comments to the book
Zen Arado: nods
Fox Monacular: or atheists have baby showers
Wol Euler: I looked him up on wikipedia during hte pause, sounds fascinating.
Fox Monacular: he's amazing
Fox Monacular: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mircea_Eliade
Fox Monacular: he wrote a lot on history of religion, was one of the first poeple to describe hinduist practices for the west
Fox Monacular: he also wrote fiction, too, for instance Coppola's recent film - youth without youth is based on ELiade's book

Fox Monacular: not everybody sees God necessarily as on Renaissance paintings
Zen Arado: like that there is someone up there to look after us
Fox Monacular: A father figure is one possible archetype, which seem to have stuck:)
Wol Euler sees him as short, fat and bald, with Lennon glasses.
Zen Arado: :)
Fox Monacular: :)
Pila Mulligan: humming 'give peace a chance'
Wol Euler: exactly.
Zen Arado: Imagines

~~
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have a new appreciation of what we are doing here in play as being
Pila Mulligan: how so Sharon?
stevenaia Michinaga: can you tell us?
stevenaia Michinaga: Pema's history story was nice
stevenaia Michinaga: put things in perspective
SophiaSharon Larnia: i wont say i didn't understand, but i see how i can integrate things better in real life, sl is so distant sometimes
Pila Mulligan: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: appreciation in a fresh sense / a new definition of integration also

SophiaSharon Larnia is feeling very appreciative of things
SophiaSharon Larnia: rephrase that
SophiaSharon Larnia: not things exactly. but of feeling more peaceful with present situations
Pila Mulligan: yes, appreciation as awareness
Calvino Rabeni: if this group had a mind, what would it say about "imagination"?
Pila Mulligan: quite a bit, I imagine :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: great question
Pila Mulligan: this can be a verbose group :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: imagination as varied as the participants, there are many
stevenaia Michinaga: part of what the point of this group is, is to have a minds, not in a common sense but in a way we understand each other over time
Calvino Rabeni: OK then, if you had only 1 bit to express the feeling, would it be "good" or "bad"?
stevenaia Michinaga: inclusive
SophiaSharon Larnia: good and bad are relative
Pila Mulligan: ... it may be even unavoidable (as intrinsic or essential) -- how about yourself, Cal?
Pila Mulligan: what say ye?
stevenaia Michinaga: :0
Calvino Rabeni: Good.
Pila Mulligan: yep
SophiaSharon Larnia: i have never found a group as inclusive as this one
Pila Mulligan: there are some neurologically oriented people here, and some dream oriented people here, they would agree
stevenaia Michinaga: the expectation here is for each of us to explain our thoughts, not to argue or judge
Pila Mulligan: yes, Sharon, diverse and inclusive

Pila Mulligan: to some we may be little more than the end result of a very imaginative Being
stevenaia Michinaga: or a way for Freud to speak through us
SophiaSharon Larnia: we do tend to start at the end :))
Calvino Rabeni: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: Play as Being was meant to recognize that we may not understand Being,but through Playing as we do, we will going a better sense of what Being is
stevenaia Michinaga: by starting at the end
SophiaSharon Larnia: drop what you have to see what you are
stevenaia Michinaga: and that what we do here
stevenaia Michinaga: and you are welcome to return anytime Cal

~~
Caledonia Heron: it's like everything is disrupted
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Caledonia Heron: which disrupts me
Gaya Ethaniel nods nods.
Eden Haiku: And we are pretending nothing is going on aren't we?
Caledonia Heron: it feels like it
Eden Haiku: You are a scientist Cal?
Caledonia Heron: interested in science :)
Caledonia Heron: view things from science
Gaya Ethaniel: oh, thought you were a scientist too Cal :)
Gaya Ethaniel: or a spacewalker :P
Caledonia Heron: lol, trying not to wear a label :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :D
Eden Haiku: I see. Scientist may find solutions but the eco problem is everybody's problem isn'it?
Caledonia Heron: indeed Eden
Archmage Atlantis: Nothing wrong with labels as long as they are one's own choosing, imho :)
Eden Haiku: Yes, labels. I hate them too. But they are like badges we can wear in SL aren't they?
Caledonia Heron: sure, labels are fine, useful for sorting, and ways to meet and affiliate in SL - I was
kind of teasing with you a bit :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Archmage Atlantis: grins
~~
Bolonath Crystal: in our everyday-state-of-mind there is alway an inner dialogue going on. in meditation we
learn to stop this permanent chatting. and if we manage to become very quiet, we may hear the voice of
intuition clearly. otherwise it just pops up sometimes, or at least seems to do that

Storm Nordwind trained himself to discriminate between "intuitive" input and imagined input. Took a few
years to get it reliable.

Vector Marksman: "As to the mind's pilot, intuition...catch him clean and stark naked, he is first of truth
tellers; dream clothed, or dirty with fears and wishes, he is prince of liars." Robinson Jeffers (poet)

Bolonath Crystal: hm. let us suppose that at least many people have intuition. and if this is so, it
has developed during evolution. that means, that there is a good reason for it. there must be some
advantage in having intuition, otherwise it wouldn't occur so often

~~

Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is it that continues? what is it that has lives, past and present?
Eden Haiku: The ego I beleive.
Eden Haiku: The being part do dissolve into Being but the ego keeps on playing...
Eden Haiku: That is my point of view ;-)
Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks about this...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what is the being part?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sorry...that's a really stupid question
Pila Mulligan: not really
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm feeling a little brain fuzzy.
Pila Mulligan: it is one of the fundamental qurestions :)
Pila Mulligan: and there are different answers :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods

Corvuscorva Nightfire: maybe I was a crow in the last life..and that's why I can't remember it.
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
Eden Haiku: So you might the one who remeber the best, the all-blackness of it all Corvi.
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Eden Haiku: Because, in fact there is only emptiness.
stevenaia Michinaga: was wondering recently if all the things we speak of, dreams, past lives, ghosts are just
manifestations of of alternative universes here
Eden Haiku: I'm just repeating buddhist stanzas like a parrot here. I never understood emptiness. ;-)
Eden Haiku: Alterbanative universes
Corvuscorva Nightfire: heh
Pila Mulligan: there's some excellent fiction built on alternative universes
stevenaia Michinaga: sure , the things we can only theoroize but never prove (at the moment
Eden Haiku: *Alternative universes, yes. And there is a scientific therory about it I think: superchords.

Eden Haiku: Birds chipping at night/ The crow leading us somewhere/In the deep unknown