22-24 - Eos Appreciates

2009.07.22 01:00 - Me & the Birds

http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?title=Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.22_-_01:00_-_Me_%26_the_Birds 

No one came, no one left, no one wept and no one laughed. All in all a very quiet night, apart from the rain falling outside my balcony door!  - Tarmel

2009.07.22 07:00 - Languages & Cultures of Kindness

http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?title=Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.22_-_Languages_%26_Cultures_of_Kindness 

Eliza Madrigal: Usually I wake up thinking about something... a theme for the day. Today it is kindness :) 

Eliza Madrigal: The reason I thought about kindness this morning, is that in the Harry Potter film (cant remember if the line was in the book), 
sophia Placebo: i was really angry , then i played with a kid and angry feelings fade away 
Eliza Madrigal: That will do it :) 
Eliza Madrigal: At one point in the film Dumbledore tells Harry that he is unfailingly kind, and remarks that it is a quality not appreciated by most... 
Eliza Madrigal: And this morning I read an article to the same effect.

The article itself is interesting in a few places, but mostly common sense.   http://www.thesmartset.com/article/article07080901.aspx 

Eliza Madrigal: The article mentioned that people, especially on the internet, can get used to an echo chamber of sorts, and fail to hear or tolerate other ideas 
sophia Placebo: one saying here is - who would need to opress except the weak 
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, like that! 
Eliza Madrigal: So bullying is born of insecurity and a feeling of weakness 
sophia Placebo: i liked the echo chamber image 
Eliza Madrigal: yes, because we think of the internet as being this 'open' slate.... 
Eliza Madrigal: but people make it what they want, in a sense 
Eliza Madrigal: we all do 
sophia Placebo: true 
Eliza Madrigal: So it seems there needs to be an intention toward openness, which does seem to require something like kindness to operate 
Eliza Madrigal: Otherwise we end up with a more rude society, which would be ironic considering the vast potential of the internet 

         

Sophia Placebo: newtin said that for each act there is a counter act , equal in maltitude oppiste in direction right ? 
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, eys cause and effect 
Eliza Madrigal: *yes 
sophia Placebo: kindess is the same , it is an act and its effect is a counter act to you or to thers 
Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes. So you believe it has effects even if they are not immediately seen? 
sophia Placebo: sure 
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I do too 
Eliza Madrigal: At least that is the way I try to live... 
sophia Placebo: but i wouldnt wait or look for that effect 
Eliza Madrigal smiles 
sophia Placebo: i wouldnt even expect a pay back kind of thing 

Eliza Madrigal: Sophia made an interesting point : i think kindness if applied as a mean for social openness it would become like a manner or tradition , but if kindness perceived as philosophy or as concept accepted and appreciated individually then yes it would make a diffrence 
sophia Placebo: and eliza asked :[7:32] Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes. Anytime we try to capture something and set it up as a 'standard' it can lose some value? 

Pema Pera: yes, I can see that -- it is much better if everyone (or even some people) would try to be personally engaged rather than following rules 
Eliza Madrigal nods 
Pema Pera: but even so, rules can have a very positive influence 
Pema Pera: I'm always reminded of that, when I visit Japan 
Eliza Madrigal: yes? 
Eliza Madrigal: As in manners and a general expectation? 
Pema Pera: In a Starbucks in Japan, the people behind the cash register look you in the eye, they smile, they pay attention, they really are there and willing to communicate 
Eliza Madrigal: That makes a difference, I'd imagine, in the whole day 
Pema Pera: and when I go back to New York, half the time those people in the same role are looking at their co-workers and continuing their conversation while ignoring their client even though they are counting out the money for them 
Pema Pera: always a shock that lasts a few days before I get used to it again . . . . 
   
sophia Placebo: the spirit of that joy is still living in Japanese culture ? 
Pema Pera: problems that go very deep . . . . 
Pema Pera: oh yes, Sophia, very much so 
sophia Placebo: wonderfull! 
Pema Pera: appreciation for details, in everything, from electronic manifacturing to wrapping a present 
Pema Pera: and receiving a little present: they actually use chakras, probably without being aware of it 
Pema Pera: when receiving a present you bow slightly and bring the present to your forehead, and then you straighten and hold the present in from of your heart 
Eliza Madrigal: Oh! Nice!! 
Pema Pera: clearly connected with chi/prana energy centers 
Pema Pera: you can feel it 
sophia Placebo: so higly appreciation gesture 
Pema Pera: but it's part of their gestures, like shaking hands, I'm sure they don't think about it, but I'm equally sure they do feel it  

 Eliza Madrigal: The little things. Our life is full of them and yet we rush by 

sophia Placebo: ok :)) 
Pema Pera: unless forced to, or willing to adapt to foreigners; normally they bow 
Pema Pera: the connections are energetic, through gestures, not physical

Shared a little moment here which sticks out to my memory as strongly as a significant holiday might! :)

Eliza Madrigal: I was paying my son's fees one day at his school, and the lady behind the counter and I bowed kind of instinctively. It was such a sweet moment... out of nowhere. I hardly knew her :)

Pema Pera: ... in Japan "watch out" or "take care" literally is said as "use your chi" -- chi is not an exotic word, it's as ordinary as water or stone :) 
Pema Pera: so they're quite good at pinning it down, traditionally, to a large extent :-) 
Pema Pera: to begin to feel an affection for someone is in Japanese to let someone into your chi -- many expressions like that 
Pema Pera: ("chi" is the Chinese word; in Japanese it is "ki") 

     

Pema Pera: oh, I'm not implying that Japanese as a whole are more kind; rather that their language offers them a tool to talk/think/work with energy 
Pema Pera: and that their training forces them to pay a lot more attention to each other than in most other countries, which is a condition for the possibility of appreciation -- not a cause, but it sure helps 

     

2009.07.22 13:00 - You Say Yes, I Say No

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.22_13%3a00_-_You_Say_Yes%2c_I_Say_No 

Questa Blackheart: How about "change" as a topic?
Fefonz Quan: please take it on Queasta
Questa Blackheart: I have just been told I will likely be made redundant.
Questa Blackheart: The thing I find quite amusing is that most people look sympathetic and ask me if I'm OK.
Fox Monacular: from my experience with immigrants I find that women seem to tolerate change better than men...?
Fefonz Quan: somehow women tend to be more emotionally flexible than Men. maybe they are not expected to be 'tough' all teh time

Fox Monacular: perhaps it has something to do with the fact that women go through intense physical changes... when have babies for example

Mickorod Renard: men build their castles of security,,if u know what i mean,,and dont like having to recalculate the risks all over again
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Fefonz Quan: yes, moving a castle is harder than a tent :)

Fox Monacular: it's also cultural.. for men sometimes it's seen as weakness to express emotions
Fefonz Quan: right.
Fefonz Quan: but then, when the wind blows hard, the tough trees break while the flexible ones bend till it is over
Mickorod Renard: expresing emotions of anger are expected of men,,and when they do, they are critisized for it
Fox Monacular: yes, so resistance is futile really
Eliza Madrigal: So women are Palm trees?

Eliza Madrigal: we were talking a little this morning about how language affects culture, etc. also. So a word like 'kindness' is thought to be weak' or a female quality when it takes much strength inwardly/security to be kind.

Mickorod Renard: I came to realise that the regular person I had debate with was happy to become aggressive with me,,now I record the situation and for some reason they dont want to carry on with the debate..weird

2009.07.22 19:00 - Architects and Scientists and labels

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.22_19%3a00_-_Architects_and_Scientists 

stevenaia Michinaga: I was just finishing leftovers from dinner with Adams, Wol, and Fefonz last night
Pema Pera: It was such a pleasure to meet Wol in Germany, last month
stevenaia Michinaga: the most interesting thing I have found is accents don't make themselves evident in Sl w/o voice
stevenaia Michinaga: it adds so much to hear someone
stevenaia Michinaga: aside from leaving your avatar in sl
Pema Pera: yes, it is like final meeting the poet, after having read some of her poetry
stevenaia Michinaga: or hearing them read their own work
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: each PaB session is in some sense a joint piece of poetry
stevenaia Michinaga: it was strike the similarities amongst us, all work in some kind of visual field and each has an appreciation for complex databases

2009.07.23 01:00

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2009.07.23 07:00 - The "If" Koan

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.23_07%3a00_-_The_%22If%22_Koan 

genesis Zhangsun: so my tendency is to get a bit obsessive
genesis Zhangsun: I take an idea and my mind chews on it
genesis Zhangsun: far too long
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps even until it has turned to dust :)
genesis Zhangsun: so meditation allows me to let go of that usual thinking pattern
genesis Zhangsun: I drop it
genesis Zhangsun: but it also continues to work in the background
genesis Zhangsun: but in a slower way
genesis Zhangsun: more space for thoughts
genesis Zhangsun: less pressured
genesis Zhangsun: so while I don't focus on "insight:
genesis Zhangsun: in my meditation
genesis Zhangsun: and more "calm"
genesis Zhangsun: I notice that towards the end
genesis Zhangsun: sometimes in a very shocking way
genesis Zhangsun: a little piece of processed information comes to the surface
genesis Zhangsun: in a very neat, beautiful kind of symbolic way
genesis Zhangsun: much more understandable than the garble in my head when I believe I am working on something by thinking about it logically/rationally
genesis Zhangsun: the symbol is very complete
genesis Zhangsun: capturing all of kinds of things I could never put into words
genesis Zhangsun: except maybe in poetry
genesis Zhangsun: :)
genesis Zhangsun: these symbols feel very intimate
genesis Zhangsun: only I could hold them up to myself
genesis Zhangsun: a therapist could never do it for me
genesis Zhangsun: the self exploration also has something so relaxed about it
genesis Zhangsun: I feel trust
genesis Zhangsun: for the process, for myself, in Being
Pema Pera: that's a beautiful summary!

genesis Zhangsun: I suppose the idea is to bring the sitting mentality with you in the movement

Pema Pera: so how do you "stick with it" without getting too tense?
Pema Pera: playing without "practicing" and without getting sloppy?
genesis Zhangsun: I try to think of it like brushing my teeth
genesis Zhangsun: it is something I do for maintenance
genesis Zhangsun: I don't try to "add" any extra dimension
genesis Zhangsun: of ambition
genesis Zhangsun: or hard discipline

Pema Pera: can you say more about the notion of "maintenance"? You mean this as opposed to reaching/adding/perfecting, right?
genesis Zhangsun: I once described it as starting with something as coarse and overblown like a bat to hit a marble
genesis Zhangsun: eventually you are playing ping pong
genesis Zhangsun: and then just a flick of your finger
genesis Zhangsun: than no finger at all

Pema Pera: what you have just outlined, this whole path from bat to ping pong to flicking to nothing -- all that still has a flavor of a path, a process, a program, a kind of agenda
Pema Pera: do you think it would be possible to drop EVEN THAT ?

The "if" koan something Pema and I have been discussing.  "If" you see then it is enough...what about dropping the "if" the condition, what happens? 

Pema Pera: that's the "if" we have been talking about
genesis Zhangsun: yes it is
genesis Zhangsun: the elusive if
Pema Pera: any path glorifies an "if" -- if you don't take this path it won't work
Pema Pera: you'll be doomed
Pema Pera: not enlightened
Pema Pera: but if you don't take any path, then what -- most likely you're even more stuck
Pema Pera: so what gives?
genesis Zhangsun: hmm yes tricky koan
genesis Zhangsun: still pondering it
Pema Pera: Stim and I have given it a code name : "Namkhai Norbu's if"

Pema Pera: If Namkhai Norbu would walk into this room (we were sitting in my office in Princeton)
Pema Pera: and would join the conversation, the he would likely say something in response to the Time, Space, Knowledge vision
Pema Pera: "sure, IF you can see what TSK points to, THEN that would be equivalent to chan/zen or dzogchen"
Pema Pera: meaning that the essence is similar, and that it is all a question of whether or to what extent you get it
Pema Pera: Now Stim added, cautiously as you know his way:
Pema Pera: maybe TSK is different. Maybe there is no "if"
Pema Pera: . . . . . . . . . . . .
genesis Zhangsun: play as being seems to build off of that precisely

If we are at the end why practice?
genesis Zhangsun: why do we practice, why explore using these methods?
Pema Pera: no reason
genesis Zhangsun: so if they are not to see better
genesis Zhangsun: they are to celebrate the seeing?
Pema Pera: that's the koan

2009.07.23 13:00 - Remain in Light

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.23_13%3a00_-_Remain_in_Light 

2009.07.23 19:00 - Opening the mind's eye

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.23_19%3a00_-_Opening_the_mind's_eye 

2009.07.24 01:00 - At the point of sleep.....

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.24_01%3a00_-_At_the_point_of_sleep..... 

2009.07.24 07:00 - Identify, re-identify... un-identify?

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.24_07%3a00_-_Identify%2c_re-identify..._un-identify%3f 

2009.07.24 13:00

<not yet available>

2009.07.24 19:00 - Science and Reality

http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009/07/2009.07.24_19%3a00_-_Science_and_Reality