2018.11.20 11:30 - Dream Session: Active Imagination

11:24]  Zen (Zen Arado): Hi Eliza :)

11:24]  Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen

11:24]  Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I will be able to stay today ...

11:24]  Zen (Zen Arado): oh

11:24]  Eliza Madrigal: I'm dealing with vertigo (was in ER last night)

11:25]  Zen (Zen Arado): oh dear

11:25]  Eliza Madrigal: and this doesn't feel great

11:25]  Eliza Madrigal: I haven't filled the script yet :(

11:25]  Zen (Zen Arado): I had that

11:25]  Eliza Madrigal: it was scary

11:25]  Eliza Madrigal: I woke in cold sweats and couldn't walk

11:26]  Zen (Zen Arado): getting into bed for a while

11:26]  Zen (Zen Arado): room spinning

11:26]  Eliza Madrigal: yes

11:26]  Zen (Zen Arado): ear canal blockage or something

11:26]  Zen (Zen Arado): it went away

11:26]  Eliza Madrigal: they didn't find any issue with ears

11:27]  Eliza Madrigal: so I don't know... really, I was supposed to follow up with docs today

11:27]  Eliza Madrigal: but haven't...

11:27]  Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura :)

11:27]  Zen (Zen Arado): it should go away

11:27]  Tura Brezoianu: hi Eliza, Zen

11:27]  Zen (Zen Arado): Hi Tura

11:28]  Eliza Madrigal: It will be better when my son picks up the antivert later... but for now, SL feels awful

11:28]  Eliza Madrigal: Was saying to Zen that I can't stay today, but wish you guys a good session, Tura

11:29]  Eliza Madrigal: Hope Aggers can pick up the log, and remembered the new time!

11:29]  Zen (Zen Arado): maybe no one else coming

11:29]  Tura Brezoianu: hi Alma

11:30]  Zen (Zen Arado): Hi Alma

11:30]  Eliza Madrigal: Alma is here :) I meant to send the notice earlier, sorry about that

11:30]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): hi Tura, Zen, Eliza

11:30]  Eliza Madrigal: If Aggers doesn't it make it though, please send me the log Zen?

11:30]  Zen (Zen Arado): ok if I can find it

11:31]  Zen (Zen Arado): I'm on SL viewer atm

11:31]  Eliza Madrigal: You know what, actually if it doesn't make anyone feel weird I can just keep avi here

11:31]  Zen (Zen Arado): cos Dragon seems better there

11:31]  Zen (Zen Arado): sure

11:31]  Eliza Madrigal: interesting

11:32]  Zen (Zen Arado): hang around and you might feel better

11:32]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): you're not staying?

11:32]  Eliza Madrigal: I'm sorry to miss my favorite session of the week, but honestly I feel pretty awful here... dealing with vertigo

11:32]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): oh no :(

11:33]  Eliza Madrigal nods... once I have the script it should be better but I haven't filled it yet... just sleeping a lot today

11:33]  Zen (Zen Arado): I don't remember getting a script for that

11:33]  Eliza Madrigal: antivert

11:33]  Eliza Madrigal: it is what they gave me in the ER

11:33]  Zen (Zen Arado): prescription you mean?

11:34]  Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes :)

 

11:34]  Eliza Madrigal hands hosting mic to Zen :)

11:34]  Zen (Zen Arado): who is totally unprepared :)

11:35]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I hope you are over this soon, Eliza

11:35]  Zen (Zen Arado): anyone else want to host?

 

11:36]  Zen (Zen Arado): well anyone do homework?

11:37]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I wanted to, but I didn't have any characters in my dreams this week that seemed vivid enough to do it with

 

11:37]  Tura Brezoianu: I managed to have a dream, but it seemed uninspiring for working on.

 

11:37]  Zen (Zen Arado): we were supposed to use the same dream each time I think

11:38]  Zen (Zen Arado): just discovered last week after using separate ones

11:38]  Zen (Zen Arado): I tried to use my dream for animation but I also found it very difficult

11:39]  Zen (Zen Arado): I didn't want to use the dog because there were so many associations and the same with an old guy in the art club

11:40]  Zen (Zen Arado): so I used the one where the stations official told me he was going to be fine the driver of the next train because it was so dirty

11:40]  Zen (Zen Arado): going to fine

11:40]  Zen (Zen Arado): searching for it

 

11:41]  Tura Brezoianu: I remember I did try to animate the enigmatic character from my dream about being in the army, that I described last time, but I don't really know how to do that, beyond just imagining the scene.

11:42]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I'm not sure how to do that either

11:42]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes it's difficult

 

11:42]  Zen (Zen Arado): this is what I came up with:

11:42]  Zen (Zen Arado): I tried to visualise the station attendant in the dream because I knew the dog would just bring back associations with my dog that died, and the old guy in the art club also has many associations. I looked up a video of the Sydney underground on YouTube – I don't know if that was the right thing to do. At one minute 10 seconds is the scene from my dream when the train emerges from a tunnel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNAsorYARsQ

11:44]  Zen (Zen Arado): The Sydney trains are really gleaming and clean and modern. Only thing, I can barely visualise the person. I can imagine him as a portly middle-aged man with a black uniform and peaked cap and with a whistle in his hand. That is probably an image from the distant past though. I feel he is sharing the vicissitudes of his job with me, knowing that I have probably suffered similarly, like ‘why can't people just do their job properly and give us all a break?’

11:44]  Zen (Zen Arado): done

 

11:45]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): it sounds like it did give you some additional insight into the character

11:46]  Zen (Zen Arado): I just couldn't visualise what those station attendants were like

11:46]  Zen (Zen Arado): I think I am remembering something from my childhood when they used whistles and flags :-)

11:47]  Zen (Zen Arado): the Sydney trains have really changed anyway

11:47]  Zen (Zen Arado): in my time they were called and called "red  rattlers'

11:47]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): the video reminds me of the metro in Washington DC

11:48]  Zen (Zen Arado): they could be the same model

11:48]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): much newer and spiffier than the subways in New York and Chicago

11:48]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes

11:49]  Zen (Zen Arado): the station attendant was just a voice really in my dream

11:50]  Zen (Zen Arado): I don't think they have many staff in modern railway stations

11:50]  Zen (Zen Arado): Everything is automatic

11:50]  Zen (Zen Arado): no ticket collectors or inspectors

 

11:50]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): hmmm ... maybe you could animate the voice itself without having to visualize it?

11:50]  Zen (Zen Arado): even the trains will be fully automated soon I think

11:51]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): on some transit systems, the voices announcing stops are now computer generated

11:51]  Zen (Zen Arado): I should have paid more attention to the voice when I woke up

11:52]  Zen (Zen Arado): when you think about  it, everything is becoming very robotic and dehumanised

11:52]  Zen (Zen Arado): in the old days station attendant  would probably be known and  know a lot of the people travelling through the station every day

 

11:53]  Agatha Macbeth: Evening all

11:53]  Zen (Zen Arado): Hi Aggers

11:53]  Tura Brezoianu: hi Ag

11:53]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): at the parking garage near my home they have gone to an automated payment system instead of having human attendants at the exits. I miss the humans, because they were always very cheerful and friendly as I was leaving the garage

 

11:53]  Agatha Macbeth: Ha Zenny's in the floor today

11:53]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): hi Agatha

11:56]  Agatha Macbeth wonders if she crashed

11:56]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): no, we are just being quiet :)

11:56]  Agatha Macbeth: Oh

11:57]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): Eliza is afk

11:57]  Agatha Macbeth: Bless her

11:57]  Zen (Zen Arado): I was trying to make a note card

11:57]  Zen (Zen Arado): my eyesight is very blurry because of using eyedrops and I keep having to magnify and de-magnify the screen

11:57]  Agatha Macbeth: Oh dear

11:57]  Tura Brezoianu: You gave it to me. Were you aiming for Ag? :)

11:57]  Zen (Zen Arado): did you get the note card Aggers

11:58]  Zen (Zen Arado): oh

11:58]  Agatha Macbeth: No but Tu did :p

11:58]  Tura Brezoianu: I'll pass it on then

11:58]  Agatha Macbeth: Ta

11:58]  Zen (Zen Arado): ok it got there anyway "_

11:58]  Agatha Macbeth: Grazie

11:59]  Agatha Macbeth: Poor Liz

 

12:00]  Zen (Zen Arado): we seem to be having trouble  with less animation idea

 

12:00]  Zen (Zen Arado): To animate an image, you bring it to life in the here and now, rather than associating to the past or amplifying it into a myth or story. Start by imagining the figure present in the room with you. See it clearly in your mind I really gleaming and clean and modern. eye. Even if it is wispy or indistinct, pay attention to any little bit of the image you can mentally see.

 

 

12:01]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): this sounds like what Jungians call "active imagination"

 

12:02]  Zen (Zen Arado): I think he is just introducing the idea here

12:02]  Zen (Zen Arado): and will go on to explain it in more depth because I think it is the main technique he uses

12:02]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes it does seem a bit like using imagination

12:03]  Zen (Zen Arado): you are adding something that wasn't really  in the  dream

12:03]  Zen (Zen Arado): ?

12:03]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): Jungian active imagination is almost supposed to be like a waking dream, I think

12:03]  Tura Brezoianu: I think it's more about letting the dream itself tell you more

 

12:04]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): the images have a life of their own

12:04]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): you let them speak and act for themselves

 

12:04]  Zen (Zen Arado): well don't we weave  stories around experiences in real life?

12:05]  Zen (Zen Arado): my character seem to take on a Dickensian role :-)

12:05]  Tura Brezoianu: Some authors say that their fictional characters take on a life of their own, and tell the author what they're doing. Maybe it's like that, rather than deliberately making up stuff.

12:05]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): yes, I think so Tura

12:06]  Zen (Zen Arado): that's interesting Tura

12:06]  Zen (Zen Arado): it starts to sound more like creative writing :-)

12:06]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): the unconscious speaks through the characters

12:06]  Tura Brezoianu: On the other hand, some authors says that their characters do what they tell them to :)

 

12:07]  Agatha Macbeth: In Tibet they believe it's possible to create a thought form called a tulpa which has a life of its own

12:07]  Zen (Zen Arado): I think there are different types of authors

12:07]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): oh, interesting, Agatha

12:07]  Agatha Macbeth: Yep

12:07]  Zen (Zen Arado): one type plans everything ahead and the other just  lets a novel develop on its own

12:08]  Zen (Zen Arado): yeah interesting Agatha have never heard of that

 

12:08]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): this animation step sounds like a way of merging the dream world and waking reality

12:09]  Zen (Zen Arado): or the waking dream

12:09]  Tura Brezoianu: So the idea is to get a dream to develop on its own. I expect it takes practice. Maybe one could begin by doing it immediately on waking form a dream.

12:09]  Agatha Macbeth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa

12:09]  Zen (Zen Arado): thanks Aggers

12:09]  Agatha Macbeth: YW

12:10]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): Interesting. children often have imaginary friends

12:10]  Agatha Macbeth: Yes

12:10]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): Calvin and Hobbes :)

12:10]  Zen (Zen Arado): I never had I must be lacking in imagination

12:10]  Agatha Macbeth: Harvey

12:11]  Tura Brezoianu: Me neither

12:11]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I don't think I did either

12:12]  Zen (Zen Arado): maybe it's something to do with control

 

12:12]  Zen (Zen Arado): I was trying to explain abstract art to a woman friend at the weekend

12:12]  Zen (Zen Arado): representational artists seem to be more in control – everything is planned

12:13]  Zen (Zen Arado): when I painted abstracts I would try to let the paint do its own thing

12:13]  Zen (Zen Arado): so this animation is a way of letting your dreams speak for themselves?

 

12:13]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I think that is the intent

12:14]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): letting them come alive and interact with them

12:14]  Zen (Zen Arado): Letting my dream characters have their say

12:14]  Zen (Zen Arado): I think I'm starting to get this

12:14]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I want to set aside some time to really work with this step

12:15]  Zen (Zen Arado): they have been saying things to me and I didn't notice because I wasn't listening

12:15]  Zen (Zen Arado): I was more interested in the action in the  dream

12:15]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes me too

 

12:16]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): sometimes my dream characters speak to me in the dream, but I cannot hear their voice clearly or understand what they are saying

12:16]  Zen (Zen Arado): any other interesting dreams this week?

12:17]  Zen (Zen Arado): Yes it's funny that I heard this voice so distinctly in the dream yet it was a disembodied voice

12:17]  Zen (Zen Arado): my dreams have been very short and scrappy lately

 

12:18]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I had two dreams in one night about a toy car

12:18]  Agatha Macbeth: 0.0

12:18]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): in one dream, the car ran automatically. when it bumped into something it would back up and change direction

12:19]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): in the other dream, I was steering the toy car with a remote control

12:20]  Zen (Zen Arado): getting ready for self drive :-)

12:20]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): maybe that relates to controlling dream images, versus letting them control themselves

 

12:20]  Agatha Macbeth: Va va voom

12:20]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes control

12:20]  Zen (Zen Arado): control is a big issue in our lives

12:20]  Zen (Zen Arado): with me anyway

12:21]  Agatha Macbeth: Getting or giving?

12:21]  Zen (Zen Arado): how much to accept, how much to try to change

12:21]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): it's a tricky balance

12:21]  Zen (Zen Arado): to be or not to be..

12:22]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes it's a balance

12:22]  Tura Brezoianu: "...to accept the things I cannot control; courage to control the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference"

12:23]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes it certainly isn't a new problem :-)

12:23]  Tura Brezoianu: (adapting the Serenity Prayer)

12:23]  Zen (Zen Arado): reminds me of Maggie Thatcher for some reason

12:23]  Agatha Macbeth makes the sign of the cross

12:24]  Zen (Zen Arado): she had to learn that lesson herself in the end :-)

12:24]  Zen (Zen Arado): and poor old Theresa May :-)

12:24]  Agatha Macbeth: Or may not

 

12:26]  Zen (Zen Arado): I had a dream this morning about careworkers

12:26]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala) listens

12:26]  Zen (Zen Arado): they had just arrived in my living room when a supervisor arrived in behind them

12:26]  Zen (Zen Arado): she said she was doing a spot check

12:27]  Zen (Zen Arado): she seemed a nice woman so I asked her her name

12:27]  Zen (Zen Arado): she said it was Gemma or Jane or something like that, I couldn't quite  catch what she said

12:27]  Zen (Zen Arado): I wondered if it was a premonition

12:28]  Zen (Zen Arado): we will see

12:28]  Agatha Macbeth: Maybe that makes you Tarzan

 

12:28]  Zen (Zen Arado): so can we try to work more with animation for next week?

12:28]  Zen (Zen Arado): :-)

12:29]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): yes, I would like to continue with animation

12:29]  Agatha Macbeth: Yeh

12:29]  Agatha Macbeth: Give Liz a chance to participate

12:29]  Zen (Zen Arado): I might try something like telling myself to pay more attention to the characters in my dreams before I go to sleep

12:29]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes

12:31]  Zen (Zen Arado): just thinking over this period

12:31]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I need to be more intentional about recalling and recording dreams

12:31]  Zen (Zen Arado): there seemed to be more characters around in the old days

12:31]  Zen (Zen Arado): people with strong maybe eccentric characters I mean

12:32]  Zen (Zen Arado): I wonder if the individuality is being stomped out of us these days

12:32]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes this recall is the key to everything

12:32]  Agatha Macbeth: It failed with me

12:32]  Zen (Zen Arado): Aizenstat  gives a simple technique

12:33]  Zen (Zen Arado): you say to yourself "I will remember my dreams tonight" three times just before you go to sleep

12:33]  Zen (Zen Arado): I think that helps me

12:33]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): I will try that

 

12:33]  Zen (Zen Arado): I'll have to try the tablets again as well

12:33]  Agatha Macbeth: Ok Moses

12:34]  Zen (Zen Arado): I think my  dreams became more  vivid for a period after I stopped  even

12:35]  Zen (Zen Arado): better stop there I guess

12:35]  Tura Brezoianu: Is that the Lucidesc?

12:35]  Zen (Zen Arado): yes

12:35]  Agatha Macbeth: Has Jane arrived yet?

12:35]  Zen (Zen Arado): nope

12:35]  Tura Brezoianu: I tried that a couple of times, but I didn't notice any effect.

12:35]  Agatha Macbeth: Aww

12:35]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): thank you, Zen

12:35]  Zen (Zen Arado): maybe you need to keep trying them for a week or two

12:36]  Zen (Zen Arado): I haven't used them for a month or so

12:36]  Tura Brezoianu: thanks for hosting and sharing

12:36]  Zen (Zen Arado): I'm a bit uneasy about using things like that

12:36]  Zen (Zen Arado): np :)

12:36]  Agatha Macbeth: Yes thanks Zenny

12:37]  Zen (Zen Arado): careworkers gotta go

12:37]  Agatha Macbeth: Be well

12:37]  Alma di Masala (Almadi Masala): bye everyone, see you next time

12:37]  Zen (Zen Arado): byee and ty for coming

12:37]  Agatha Macbeth: TC

12:38]  Tura Brezoianu: bye Zen

12:38]  Agatha Macbeth: I'll try getting here on time next week