The Guardians for this meeting were Aph and Bruce. The comments are by Agatha Macbeth.

Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi All, sorry running late will send notice :)
Eliza Madrigal: just learned that Mary Oliver passed away :(
Riddle Sideways: Hey, not late
Aphrodite Macbain: Who is she?
Bruce Mowbray's current display-name is "Bruce".
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, everyone.
Bruce Mowbray: ty for sending out the notice, Eliza.
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: ty for sending out the link to Tegmark, Zen and APh.
Aphrodite Macbain: 6 minutes till 1
Aphrodite Macbain: Loved listening to Tegmark
Riddle Sideways: so many great Mary Oliver quotes
Bruce Mowbray: OH YES!
Eliza Madrigal: Oliver is the poet who wrote Wild Geese, and other beautiful things
Bruce Mowbray: He's one of my favorites.
Bruce Mowbray: Mary Oliver.
Aphrodite Macbain: American?
Bruce Mowbray: She is, yes, and he is, too.
Aphrodite Macbain: He?
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Eliza Madrigal: sorry, two strings
Bruce Mowbray: np, it happens.
Eliza Madrigal: had just learned of Oliver's passing as I arrived
Bruce Mowbray: OH!
Riddle Sideways: there are 5 people here, need to keep all 7 threads going
Bruce Mowbray: I'd not heard that.
Eliza Madrigal: :) Riddle
Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Bleu!
Bruce Mowbray: "Wild Geese" is the token poem of my men's group.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bleu.
Eliza Madrigal: No chance to see the Tegmark yet though, looking forward
Aphrodite Macbain: wow
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Eliza Madrigal: your men's group? really? that's wonderful
Bruce Mowbray: Tegmark gives an excellent talk at Google. (that link)
Agatha Macbeth: Evening all :)
Eliza Madrigal: Evening :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi aggers!
Agatha Macbeth: Great class yesterday Bleuji
Bleu Oleander: glad you enjoyed it ... thanks!
Agatha Macbeth: I did
Bleu Oleander: :))
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- I was inspired to keep looking
Agatha Macbeth: Learned stuff too...wow
Eliza Madrigal: that's convenient for a class :))
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Agatha Macbeth: In my case it's amazing
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmKOgeoOz4&t=23s
Bleu Oleander: doesn't always happen haha!
Aphrodite Macbain: The proff of the pudding is in the art work
Aphrodite Macbain: proof
Agatha Macbeth: Proff too
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Prof is in the puddling? AGAIN?!
Aphrodite Macbain: likes to get messy
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh they ran out sixpences
Zevastelle Resident's current display-name is "Zevastelle".
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Aphrodite Macbain: lol Aggers
Agatha Macbeth: (Showing me age)
Aphrodite Macbain: or dimes
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe loonies in Canada
Aphrodite Macbain: Only at Christmas tho
Aphrodite Macbain: loonies are too big.
Eliza Madrigal: Hope our visitor from last week makes it today, was hoping she'd meet more of 'the gang' :)
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Aphrodite Macbain: You'd wreck your teeth
Agatha Macbeth: Oh yes
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I hope she can return.
Aphrodite Macbain: me too
--BELL--1.00
Riddle Sideways: hello, Zevastelle
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zevastelle, welcome to playasbeing :))
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, Zevastelle!
Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow, just joined SL today?
Zevastelle Resident: Hi! Thank you :)
Bleu Oleander: hiya Zevastelle
Agatha Macbeth: Oh she's not online
Agatha Macbeth: Hello dear
Bruce Mowbray: Happy Rez-Day, Zeva!
Agatha Macbeth: Welcome to the house of fun
Zevastelle Resident: You seem under assault by many large posters
Aphrodite Macbain: Join us, please. Just "sit" on a cushion
Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
Agatha Macbeth: We think big
Aphrodite Macbain: Yres- I was wondering about them
Eliza Madrigal: maybe the labels overhead?
Zevastelle Resident: Is it just my viewer?
Eliza Madrigal: hm, I don't see posters
Aphrodite Macbain: They came from the electric field
Aphrodite Macbain: stopped now
Agatha Macbeth: Oh I thought you meant the posters at the entrance...hm
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, please come in an have a seat. We're about to begin our discussion of Artificial Intelligence in Harari's book "21 Lessons for the 21st Century"
Aphrodite Macbain: Did everyone get a chance to do the reading and/or see the video?
Bruce Mowbray: I did.
Riddle Sideways: what chapter was that?
Riddle Sideways: read chapter 2m but that seems to be next week
Riddle Sideways: -m
Bleu Oleander: chapter "work" right?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that's right.
Aphrodite Macbain: Under the Technological Challenge- Part 1
Riddle Sideways: ok good, then what is next week?
Bruce Mowbray: Yep.
Aphrodite Macbain: Under work
Eliza Madrigal: I've "read" but on audio, so I'm not sure what point I've read to, but certainly that far
Bruce Mowbray: (chapter 5 on the audio, Eliza.)
Eliza Madrigal: great, thanks Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: :) yw.
Aphrodite Macbain: The subject of AI is dealt with in Chapters 1-4
Bruce Mowbray: In the book....
Bruce Mowbray: (not in the audio)
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: How do people feel about the growing of AI, info and biotechnology?
Bruce Mowbray: It's "disruptive."
Aphrodite Macbain: Does it worry you or excite you?
Riddle Sideways: it's fun
Eliza Madrigal: :) slightly freaked out but excited/curious too
Bleu Oleander: some of it is great, some not so much
Bruce Mowbray: It excites me.
Bruce Mowbray: :)))
Aphrodite Macbain: Me too
Aphrodite Macbain: I am thankful for so much it has brought
Eliza Madrigal: I think I worry more about our current context and if we're sort of emotionally ready for anything more :)
Bruce Mowbray: Harari says  we are lacking even basic societal tools to deal with the advances in technology and the gap is widening.
Bleu Oleander: what would it mean to know that we are emotionally ready?
Eliza Madrigal: the scenarios he describes include the "haves" becoming almost different species?
Bruce Mowbray: Bleu asks a fascinating question....
Riddle Sideways: also describes the Stress on many that might put them out of the race
Eliza Madrigal: already our society is so unequal/unfair
Bruce Mowbray: The AI might be ready before we are - emotionally, I mean.
Aphrodite Macbain: I like the video Zen sent out.
Bleu Oleander: no one ever said the universe was equal or fair tho
Bruce Mowbray: Both Trump and the Brexit referendum result are the results of AI. . .
Bruce Mowbray: are we ready for that?
Aphrodite Macbain: He proposes that if the vision and hope of humans and AI are aligned, we will be very successful
Eliza Madrigal: that's an interesting notion Bruce, that AI might lead emotionally somehow
Zevastelle Resident: aren't they really the result of human nature?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, if AI can control Facebook and Twitter - as it did in 2016 - then it's GOT us, huh?
Bruce Mowbray: or not?
Aphrodite Macbain: the fear is that AI will learn faster than umans and take over
Aphrodite Macbain: also humans
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that's one of the fears, for sure.
Riddle Sideways: what will you do with that Fear?
Bruce Mowbray: As Harari says, "“We had better understand our minds before the algorithms make our minds up for us.”
Aphrodite Macbain: So he suggests that when we design our new technology, we need to program in the goal or purpose of it
Aphrodite Macbain: so that it aligns with humaans'
Bruce Mowbray: Exactly. Also, make sure we have a remedy....
Bleu Oleander: if emotions are no more than biochemical algorighms then computers be programmed to have emotions
Aphrodite Macbain: Not so much a remedy but a joint purpose
Aphrodite Macbain: worth listening to
Bruce Mowbray: Well, in the past we have not had "remedies" for our inventions...
Bruce Mowbray: like a-bombs.
Bruce Mowbray: so, we need a remedy for rampant AI. . . .
Bleu Oleander: any invention can be used for good or bad
Bruce Mowbray: Yep, right you are.
Eliza Madrigal: According to the notion of FB/Twitter deciding so much, they already are making up minds, even if not one's own, many others in a world one must live in - or maybe not everyone has to live in 'that' world, that's more my concern
Bruce Mowbray: Mine too, Eliza.
Aphrodite Macbain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmKOgeoOz4&t=23s
Aphrodite Macbain: that's what Zen sent this morning
Aphrodite Macbain: Really really interesting
Riddle Sideways: oh, same url
Riddle Sideways: as before
Eliza Madrigal: but I love the statistics on potentials of self-driving cars and operative procedures
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: I was quoting it
Bruce Mowbray: (so was I actually.)
Aphrodite Macbain: ah :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles at Zevastelle has found the floaties
Bruce Mowbray: info-tech and bio-tech could restructure our bodies and minds (what Max Tegmark calls “Life 3.0”)
Eliza Madrigal: *that
Aphrodite Macbain: First time I heard Tegmark
--BELL--1.15
Bleu Oleander: really?
Zevastelle Resident: pardon me for taking the word "play" most literally
Aphrodite Macbain: He's very wide-thinking
Bruce Mowbray: But Harari's concern is that The democratic state is not equipped to deal with rapid changes (cites AI in finance: stock market, world economy, crypto-currencies, etc.)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Bleu Oleander: I read his book, Life 3.0 ... I liked it
Aphrodite Macbain: Play is good- it's more experimental and inventive
Aphrodite Macbain: nods to Bruce
Bruce Mowbray nods back.
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: we have to think long-term - like having a common vision or goal
Zevastelle Resident: hahaha apparently I'm experiencing an alternate world because I still see hoardes of giant posters passing through this area
Aphrodite Macbain: Odd
Eliza Madrigal: It is... really don't see that at all
Zevastelle Resident: they say Cli-cli notre plaque tournamente
Riddle Sideways: later, y'all might like this TED talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajGgd9Ld-Wc
Bruce Mowbray: AI with machine learning algorithms can write an algorithm that will start writing encrypted software that is beyond human understanding, which already has been happening - according to Google - where they don’t fully understand how their machine learning does what it’s doing.
Aphrodite Macbain: What is it Riddle?
maggieemay Resident's current display-name is "Maggie ".
Aphrodite Macbain: we are being manipulated by machines!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Maggie
Bleu Oleander: hi Maggie
Bruce Mowbray: How AI can save our humanity -- a TED talk
Riddle Sideways: it is "How AI can save our humanity | Kai-Fu Lee"
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Maggie.
maggieemay Resident: hi All
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maggie, welcome :)
Aphrodite Macbain: How can it?
Riddle Sideways: Hi Maggie
Bleu Oleander: a good Harari dialogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szt7f5NmE9E
maggieemay Resident: hi
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Maggie
maggieemay Resident: hi
Aphrodite Macbain: Humanity is still somewhat in control of AI
Riddle Sideways: Aph, it is 15m that you might watch
Aphrodite Macbain: about what?
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Bleu
Bleu Oleander: yw!
Aphrodite Macbain: I've watched about an hour's worth of videos on my phone already today
Bruce Mowbray: Heh heh.
Bruce Mowbray: Does anyone care about privacy issues?
Aphrodite Macbain: That's a good example of how it informs my life and controls it to a certain etent
Bruce Mowbray: Already, a machine learning or deep learning algorithms can analyse the biometric data and can determine your personality type, your health issues, your mood, and even your sexual orientation.
Aphrodite Macbain: But for what purpose?
Bruce Mowbray ponders facial recognition AI.
Bleu Oleander: yeah, who would want to know LOL
Riddle Sideways: know and compose the ideal music for you ㋡
Aphrodite Macbain: Is it designed to help me or control me?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, police depts could find criminals through facial recognition... at the cost of everyone else's privacy, of course.
Aphrodite Macbain: China's doing it right now
Bruce Mowbray: and employers could use it to learn stuff about you that you'd rather they didn't know.
Eliza Madrigal: very interesting credit rating system that connects one with everyone they know
Eliza Madrigal: so encourages social levels
Bruce Mowbray: Every major city in the world is doing it.
Aphrodite Macbain: which could be good for the employer and bad for the employee
Bruce Mowbray: There are THOUSANDS of CCV camera in the UK and in New York, alone.
Xirana Oximoxi: 's current display-name is "Xirana".
Riddle Sideways: hi Xir
Bleu Oleander: hi Xiri :)
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone! :)
Aphrodite Macbain: That's why I like the idea of creating new technology that serves a good purpose for the most people
Bruce Mowbray: sorting through all that data - - is AI's job.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya XIR!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Xiri!
Xirana Oximoxi: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: WONDERFUL art exhibit!
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Xirana Oximoxi: I am sorry to be so late... I have French at the same time sadly :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xiri :)
Bruce Mowbray: Oui!
Aphrodite Macbain: Nous pouvons parler francais si tu veux
Bruce Mowbray: Quel fromage!
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: oui...maintenant je dois changer mon chip :))
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Aphrodite Macbain: cip en fncais est chip
Xirana Oximoxi: thanks for visiting the exhibit and your comments :)
Aphrodite Macbain: grr
Bruce Mowbray: soooooo.......
Bruce Mowbray: What happens when computers learn to design AI? Then we will have an exponential increase in the ability of AI, what some pundits refer to as the 'singularity. ' (Ray Kurzweil, “The Singularity is Near”)
Aphrodite Macbain: Your work is getting better and better. I'd love to see it in RL
Xirana Oximoxi: thank you Aph :9
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, truly FINE paintings and charcoals, Xir.
Bruce Mowbray: Beautiful work.
Aphrodite Macbain: What would happen I wonder
Bruce Mowbray: much of the perceived AI-threat comes from them replicating quickly and easily (throughout the world) while at the same time being basically immortal.
Aphrodite Macbain: It makes me nervous if it is possible to really happen
Bruce Mowbray: Harari asks "Will humans lose control of the infrastructure of society? "
Aphrodite Macbain: I wont be aliive then but my great nephews and nieces will.
Xirana Oximoxi: the way Harari explains it..it seems really possible
Bruce Mowbray: It's happening right now, Aph. . . . (At least I think that Harari thinks is it.)
Aphrodite Macbain: was it by 2030?
Aphrodite Macbain: singularity?
Bruce Mowbray: That's the Singularity.
Aphrodite Macbain: man becomes more machine than man
Bruce Mowbray: When computers are "smarter" than humans -- which they already are in many disciplines.
Aphrodite Macbain: Where is this happening now?
Bruce Mowbray: Netflix knows what videos you "should" be watching because you would enjoy them -- even though you do not know about them.
Aphrodite Macbain: that's not the same as singularity though, is it?
Eliza Madrigal: I still take most of my recs from friends or other reading
Bruce Mowbray: Most of th stock market is operated by AI programs. . . choosing which sgtocks to buy and sell at lightning speed....
--BELL--1.30
Bruce Mowbray: No, the signularity happens when AI program become independent.....
Aphrodite Macbain: Theya are programmed to make the most money but not necessarily to do the most good
Aphrodite Macbain: for humanity
Aphrodite Macbain: Machiavellian
Bruce Mowbray: Yep, THAR's part of the problem: AI's are a-moral.
Bleu Oleander: Netflix is always wrong for me but then I don't look to Netflix in my research
Bruce Mowbray: :) -- good point, Bleu.
Aphrodite Macbain: So that's where I found the video Zen sent very useful
Eliza Madrigal: exactly, for me too Bleu
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that was an excellent video, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: Most of what is on Netflix has no interest for me
Bruce Mowbray: I hope everyone gets a chance to watch it.
Bleu Oleander: me either Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- well worth the time
Bruce Mowbray: WOW! That's a LOT of stuff.
Xirana Oximoxi: I have not Netflix :)
Aphrodite Macbain: what is Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: I have Netflix, but I keep forgetting that I do.
Eliza Madrigal: I watch all kinds of things on all kinds of channels :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Watch ROMA
Bruce Mowbray: A LOT of MOVIES that you have no interest in.
Bleu Oleander: I just signed up for a free month trial and just two weeks into it, I seem to have run out of things of interest on Netflix
Aphrodite Macbain: So they dont manipulate us
Bruce Mowbray: I will watch R)MA -- it is on my list.
Bleu Oleander: I loved Roma
Bruce Mowbray: ROMA
Aphrodite Macbain: Good
Bruce Mowbray: Looking forward to it.
Eliza Madrigal: Although that is what Netflix keeps telling me to watch too :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Tho it's best on the large screen
Bruce Mowbray: So, where are we with Harai and AI?
Eliza Madrigal: I like how Harari suggests "bewilderment" as a better stance than discouragement and disillusionment... so being aware and not disengaging out of a feeling of 'the machine' being too far ahead
Aphrodite Macbain: same as before
Bruce Mowbray: Harari*
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
Bleu Oleander: agree Eliza
Bruce Mowbray ponders bewilderment.
Xirana Oximoxi: maybe they don't manipulate us completly...I agre...but just refusing some programs is a way to give information to big corporations too
Aphrodite Macbain: I still think humans are still in control for the most part
Agatha Macbeth: Hola Xira :)
Bruce Mowbray: Excellent point, Xir.
Bleu Oleander: remain curious and don't get too pessimisstic
Xirana Oximoxi: Hola Agatha guapina :)
Eliza Madrigal: I thought that was a beautiful portion of the book so far, because it carries that sense of 'awe' about what is going on, but with health skepticism like Xiri describes
Eliza Madrigal: healthy*
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Eliza
Riddle Sideways: well Harari also suggests more teachers and paying them more
Aphrodite Macbain: awe is always to be desired :)
Riddle Sideways: because we need education
Eliza Madrigal: we do
Bruce Mowbray: I think Hararis point was that the "liberal story" is not equipped to deal with AI - yet.
Aphrodite Macbain: we also need critical thinking and creative thinking, not just facts
Bleu Oleander: its not just education ... its education that teaches how to think rationally
Aphrodite Macbain: nods- see above
Xirana Oximoxi: I've sent a page of the book to a group of friends with 3 nurses...they have been happy to know that doctors will not be necessary but nurses yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Riddle Sideways: ㋡
Bleu Oleander: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Of course- the true caregivers
Bruce Mowbray: Doctors can be had via the Web -- Hands-on nurses will always be needed --- until robots can dulpicate nursing skills.
Aphrodite Macbain: on a day-to-day basis
Eliza Madrigal: My whole area is turning into medical universities, hospitals, day centers, etc.
Aphrodite Macbain: Interesting Eliza. Why do you think?
Bruce Mowbray: Yep, but what if our AI's decide that long-term care for humans is not viable?
Aphrodite Macbain: We will ignorfe them Bruce :)
Eliza Madrigal: Large population of folks growing old
Aphrodite Macbain: lol ignore
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Eliza Madrigal: and wanting to live much nicer later lives now
Eliza Madrigal: and having the resources to do so
Aphrodite Macbain: MAybe that will happen in Victoria
Aphrodite Macbain: (to where I'm moving)
Bruce Mowbray: A doc at a hospital in Columbus, Ohio killed 27 patients recently. . . . by giving them overdoses of fentanyl. Surely an AI wouold do better.
Aphrodite Macbain: OMG
Bruce Mowbray: Yep.
Aphrodite Macbain: human error is often a killer
Xirana Oximoxi: yes...same as driving
Aphrodite Macbain: that's why we need to work WITH AI not instead of
Eliza Madrigal: I can think of nurses I would have gladly traded out for nice/pleasant AI robots instead :)
Aphrodite Macbain: It could be collaborative
Riddle Sideways: need to get those human errors off the highways
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.10tv.com/article/multipl...l-prescription
Aphrodite Macbain: I've prefer to have a human nurse when I am in pain
Eliza Madrigal: Unless the nurse is mean/cold
Bruce Mowbray: Humans have better bedside manners -- sometimes.
Bleu Oleander: Harari says no shortage of human stupidity!
Aphrodite Macbain: visited occasionally by a robot
Bruce Mowbray: But then, I've never been helped by a robot nurse, so I can't judge.
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice combo: human warmth and AI smart
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh! Combo!
Aphrodite Macbain: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: AI robot with warm hands to put on one's forehead and say "there there"
Aphrodite Macbain: each going in the same direction
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: where where?
Eliza Madrigal: and sing a lullybye... but, AI will probably not sneak bad food
Bruce Mowbray: How much of how we perceive care-giving is projection....?
Aphrodite Macbain: Speaking of medicine- I have to go and get my eyes checked.
Bruce Mowbray: and also, how we perceive robots.
Bruce Mowbray: Right now, Aph?
Bleu Oleander: bye Aph take care
Eliza Madrigal: bye Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: Byee - see you all next weekI hope
Riddle Sideways: by Aph
Bruce Mowbray: kk, bye for now Aph.
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks!
Xirana Oximoxi: bye Aph! take care
Riddle Sideways: forgot to ask if Aph's eye doctor was an AI
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Xirana Oximoxi: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: Ha ha.
Bruce Mowbray: So, with AI, it's all about data.
Xirana Oximoxi: if it was probably she could have had the 'veredict' sitting at home :)
Bruce Mowbray: Where does the data come from?
Bleu Oleander: BIG data
Eliza Madrigal: the tech is so fascinating... but it will take a long time for offices to really put things in play
Bruce Mowbray: Is it accurate?
Bruce Mowbray: Who gets to ask the questions?
Bruce Mowbray: How do you know that you're dealing with an AI?
Bruce Mowbray: (People did not know that in 2016 with the US election and Facebook.)
Riddle Sideways: ah, data comes from you and me. through Facebook, DMV, hospitals
Bruce Mowbray: How do you prevent that limited access to AI increases inequality, both within nations and between nations?
Bruce Mowbray: left to market forces alone it’s likely to make the rich richer and leave the poor behind even farther.
--BELL--1.45
Xirana Oximoxi: yes...that's quite scaring
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Bruce Mowbray: I'd rather have a benevolent AI controlling greedy and hateful human beings than having greedy, hateful human beings controlling malicious AIs – but we don't have that choice, do we?
Eliza Madrigal: I listened to a talk yesterday, and the contrast was made of business models - FB selling data/privacy to 'outside/unknown' forces, and Netflix using data to tweak consumer experience
Riddle Sideways: great point, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Eliza... That was the problem with Cambridge Analytica.
Bruce Mowbray gives others a chance to speak.
Eliza Madrigal: the main difference is that FB is 'free', they said, so you get the service in exchange for your data/rights
Eliza Madrigal: whereas Netflix is a paid service, so they see the future dividing more along these lines
Bruce Mowbray: Right, you become the product.
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Bleu Oleander: well FB is free to the individual, but its all about control and selling
Bleu Oleander: so not really free
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: we need to remember that we're dealing with corporations
Eliza Madrigal: and many people need it now, to facilitate their incomes/living
Eliza Madrigal: https://samharris.org/podcasts/146-d...al-capitalism/ (the talk, if interested)
Xirana Oximoxi: have you talked about universal basic income?
Bleu Oleander: not yet
Bruce Mowbray loves how Sam Harris thinks.
Xirana Oximoxi: ok :)
Riddle Sideways: was hoping that UB was next
Bruce Mowbray: Not yet, Xir
Bleu Oleander: what do you think about that Xiri?
Eliza Madrigal goes to check schedule
Bruce Mowbray: I think UBI would be a major challenge.
Eliza Madrigal: 24 Chapter 2: Work - AI and Creativity 31 Happiness: Reality-Expectations
Bruce Mowbray: but it might be necessary -- if AI's put too many people out of work.
Eliza Madrigal: So lots of people out of work, plus self driving cars keeping more people alive...
Bleu Oleander: Harari points out that we need to define "universal" and "basic"
Riddle Sideways: Harari covers all the sides of the issues very well
Xirana Oximoxi: I find it a good idea...but I don't know if it is possible and also if people would be able to find activitites to enjoy having all day free, for exemple....
Bruce Mowbray: So, "from each according to her abilities to each according to her needs" would no longer work?
Bleu Oleander: and that now we are thinking UBI nationally ... he has issues with whether or not it would scale up
Bruce Mowbray: I'd like to raise one more serious question before this session ends.
Eliza Madrigal: There are versions of it, though, so I think we're at just the beginning of trying ideas/pilot programs
Bruce Mowbray: Who will be responsible?
Bruce Mowbray: If a machine was not told to do anything but was simply given a few algorithms and lots of data as a basis, who is responsible if something goes wrong? The data? The algorithm? The ones developing the algorithms? The ones selecting (or not) the data?
Bruce Mowbray: [just needed to get that in]
Eliza Madrigal: Ooh, that was an interesting part, too, where he talks about not identifying the cause of discrimination
Bleu Oleander: need a lot of lawyers to sort that out!!
Eliza Madrigal: "the algorithm said"
Xirana Oximoxi: I think it will not be a single machine...but a 0web' of machines with different levels of security
Bruce Mowbray: It wasn't ME! It was the algorithm!
Bleu Oleander: algorithms will let dogs off the hook ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: e.g., the dog ate my homework.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....
Agatha Macbeth: Careful Brucie
Bleu Oleander: on that note ... gotta get back to work
Bruce Mowbray: oh yes.
Eliza Madrigal: so for now anyway, each of the machines in the web is identified with different entities, which already removes the responsibility from singular individuals
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Bleu Oleander: seeya soon
Bruce Mowbray: bye bye Bleu.
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bleu!
Agatha Macbeth: TC Bleuji
Riddle Sideways: by Bleu
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye Bleu! :)
Bleu Oleander: bye :)
Bruce Mowbray: Riddle, have you said all that you wanted to?
Riddle Sideways: hmmm, touch question
Eliza Madrigal looks to Riddle to make us feel more hopeful
Agatha Macbeth: Riddle me this and riddle me that
Bruce Mowbray: ... thinking about bots, etc.
Riddle Sideways: well, y'all did drag the negitives through here
Agatha Macbeth: There's enough bots in SL
Bruce Mowbray: (also feeling guilty for hogging the show)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: You hog very well Brucie
Eliza Madrigal: you are excited and full of questions, Bruce, which is great
Bruce Mowbray: I squirrel a lot better.
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Riddle.
Riddle Sideways: the people of the world survived the steam engines,
Riddle Sideways: bet we'll survive the AIs
Bruce Mowbray nods.... they did.
Xirana Oximoxi: I agree Rid :)
Agatha Macbeth: And we'll always have Neo
Riddle Sideways: there were nay sayers all along history
Bruce Mowbray: and so far we've survived the internal combustion engines.
Bruce Mowbray: and the weaving looms.
Bruce Mowbray: and the wheels.
Riddle Sideways: Plus, the education am getting doing these projects
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: Aye!
Eliza Madrigal: maybe that gives you more of a tangible feeling of hope?
Agatha Macbeth: Aye aye
Riddle Sideways: oh Those Automated Looms
Bruce Mowbray: There's definitely a learning curve with programming.
Riddle Sideways: there wrecked people's lives
Bruce Mowbray: This has been interesting, folks.
Agatha Macbeth: And don't foget the ghost in the machine
Riddle Sideways: *they
Riddle Sideways: yes, thanks
--BELL--2.00
Bruce Mowbray: Does anyone remember next week's assignment?
Eliza Madrigal: I feel behind on my homework not having listened to the video
Agatha Macbeth: Not moi
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe Aph will.
Bruce Mowbray: I need to go and scrape p supper.
Agatha Macbeth: Aph definitely will
Xirana Oximoxi: me either :9 I can check the email...
Eliza Madrigal: posted it above...
Bruce Mowbray: THANKS, everyone,
Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well Brucie
Riddle Sideways: Eliza pasted it
Xirana Oximoxi: thanks Bruce and all
Eliza Madrigal: 24 Chapter 2: Work - AI and Creativity
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, good people.
Agatha Macbeth needs to scoot also
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, good AI's.
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bruce, Aggers, Riddle, Xiri, everyone :)
Xirana Oximoxi: bye bye :)
Agatha Macbeth: I haz the log
Riddle Sideways: some of us are listening to you, Eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Be well peeps
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks, lol... sigh
Bruce Mowbray: kk, thanks Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: bye for now
Riddle Sideways: by and by