10-12 - Just Stopping

The scribe for April10-12 was Genesis Zhangsun.

2009.04.10 01:00 - The vase http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...a00_-_The_vase

On 90 second meditations

Wol Euler: it has several good effects, not just the extra meditation time. It als slows down the discussion, gives time to think and for tempers to cool ... :)
Trevor Berensohn: Oh that's very good
Wol Euler: oh yes, I wish we'd had that in force when we were having that long series of arguments with Absent a month ago.
Wol Euler: that might have worked out differently if we'd had these forced pauses
Trevor Berensohn: Oh? I wasn't around much then.. prehaps I missed that
Wol Euler: beause we were often arguing about words, not about principles

Trevor Berensohn: Hmm yes, I've found that if I become disturbed around someone like that, there is something within myself that is coming to light as well.. how useful

Wol Euler: if time and change are fictions to explain our perceptions, then there is no _real_ time or change - so where is free will?

2009.04.10 07:00 - A man in a house http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...man_in_a_house

Fefonz Quan: you can also tell teh man that there are thousand of purple dragons outside the house
Pema Pera: (too many strands to follow up at once)
quen Oh smiles, always likes architectural discussions...
Pema Pera: (shall we pick one?)
Fefonz Quan is willing to kill the dragons if you like ;-)
quen Oh: you would want to know what the house is built of, what it looks like, but even more that he can move out of it and build a nicer one.. if he still wants a house when outside
genesis Zhangsun: yes? build a nicer one?
Wol Euler seems to be missing a fascinating and odd conversation ;-)
Pema Pera: (pab bell)
genesis Zhangsun: sorry forget about the silence
genesis Zhangsun: *forgot
Eliza Madrigal: :) This is what we do...we go in circles in the house : )...a walk would do us good :) Lol
genesis Zhangsun: hehe yes :)

2009.04.10 13:00 - A Concrete House of Cards http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...House_of_Cards

Zen Arado: I am not clear about how no self fits with self eteem
Fefonz Quan: surely it does not fit :)
Zen Arado: have to look more at that
Solobill Laville: Is it really different than any other form of "attachment"?
Fefonz Quan: thich naht han says about it: "there are three kind of pride:
Solobill Laville: The trick may be to be aware of it...
Wester Kiranov: I think you can esteem your self without being (too) attached to it
Wester Kiranov: in principle :)
Fefonz Quan: thinking your are better than others, thinking other are better than you, and - thinking that you and other are exactly the same"
Solobill Laville: The third kind transcends this other stuff...so it really isn't an issue - if you can really maintain that
Fefonz Quan: others*
Zen Arado: yes - no-self is it really
Fefonz Quan: yes, i liked the third one most. that really makes you think :)
Solobill Laville: Well, yes, that is really IT
Zen Arado: not high or low
Fefonz Quan: my view was - when the need to compare oneself to others vanishes,
Fefonz Quan: then you are free.

Solobill Laville: I heard a great analogy last year
Solobill Laville: It is like a mountain stream in winter ...
Zen Arado: I have the biggest ego here :)
Solobill Laville: the water underneath is always flowing
Solobill Laville: but you can't see it through the ice
Solobill Laville: practice slowly melts it away
Solobill Laville: and you can start to see the flow
Solobill Laville: more and more
Solobill Laville: clearer and clearer

aurel Miles: in one sense it's all about hope

aurel Miles: but it's all about hope in the face of how illogical it is to hope

aurel Miles: hope that defies expectation

aurel Miles: hope that does not attach to a specific outcome

2009.04.10 19:00 - Hope and other ills http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...and_other_ills

Eos Amaterasu: In the 90-second gaps, I n otice they're not always observed....

Pila Mulligan: yes, they help balance the conversation when they are

Adelene Dawner: Yep, it's voluntary, not all of us do the meditations at all.

2009.04.11 01:00 - Time is immanent in (the flow of) consciousness? http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...nsciousness%3f

Scathach Rhiadra: and I have noticed that when the bell for 90 second silence went, even though there is silence already, I felt compelled to stop the thinking for the time:)
Qt Core: i just stop thinking about the topic we are discussing, not stop thinking at all (that is quite hard for me, i have problem not thinking several thoughts a time let alone no one)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: that is I think hard for all to do
Qt Core: i usually end up going up a level, thinking about thinking
Scathach Rhiadra: we spend maybe years meditating trying to really still the mind, to be able to just be, or it can happen in just a moment when we are not trying
Qt Core: i think i went there some time when doing the dead position in yoga class
Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, can you say more
Qt Core: just laying on my back, i just knew i was awake and nothing more
Scathach Rhiadra: ah:)
Qt Core: feeling my mind there, like an engine at its minimum refime
Qt Core: regime
Scathach Rhiadra: just 'aware'

Scathach Rhiadra: I was reading something about time recently, came across a nice phrase, something like 'time is immanent in the flow of consciousness'
Qt Core: mmm, just the presence of the word flow imply the passing of time

2009.04.11 07:00 - bad habits and failure with Being seeing http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/...h_Being_seeing

Adelene Dawner: One thing that I've kept in mind with that kind of thing is that whatever I've seen about myself, it was and would have been there whether I saw it or not... ignoring it doesn't make it go away, and seeing allows the good bits *and* the bad bits to be put to better use. :)
Adams Rubble: but I needed to see some things in me which were hidden yet
Pema Pera: yes, Adelene!!
Adams Rubble: yes Adelene
Adams Rubble: I don;t yet see how I can put it to use
Adams Rubble: I'd rather jump up and down on top of it
Adelene Dawner goes to find a reference :)
Pema Pera: the "enough" in "seeing is enough" doesn't mean that anything else is excluded, but rather that seeing itself can be the key to open up / access / let blossom everything else, by giving permission

Adelene Dawner: Another thing that might be useful? Shop fighting the impulse to 'be bad'. Doing that obscures the issue - makes it hard to see what's really at the root of the impulse.
Pema Pera: . . . so we try to choose between falling in the trap and seeing it enough to get over it
Pema Pera: but there is a third possibility: seeing it while still continuing to fall in the trap
Lia Rikugun: :)
Lia Rikugun: i like the last one
Adelene Dawner nods at Pema
Pema Pera: and when we do the third a number of times, we just give up that silly repitition
Pema Pera: as long as we oscillate between failure and success
Pema Pera: then success is just too hard

Pema Pera: but oscillating between blind failure and seeing failure is better
Pema Pera: yes, seeing failure makes us laugh