2016.02.15 07:00 - Oxytocin levels

The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku.

The sad news of Adam’s session on Sunday mornings closing 

Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Morning Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: how's your morning so far?
Eliza Madrigal: Fairly well, thanks. Had planned to go to an art festival but son isn't feeling well... so catching up on reading articles n such
Eliza Madrigal: you?
Bleu Oleander: early here, cool morning but nice so far :)
Eliza Madrigal: excellent
Eliza Madrigal: I soak up the cold days, gone too soon
Bleu Oleander: indeed !!!
Eliza Madrigal: we've had quite a few this year
Eliza Madrigal: but it is usally hot by midday
Bleu Oleander: its been cool here but just now getting a little warmer
Eliza Madrigal: Morning, Riddle :)
Bleu Oleander: hiya Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: hi ALL
Bleu Oleander: happy monday!
Eliza Madrigal watches smoke billowing from Eden's yurt
Riddle Sideways: oh yey

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: hi Eden :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden :)
Riddle Sideways: hi eden
Eden Haiku: Good morning :)
Riddle Sideways: reading emails
Riddle Sideways: Adams :(
Eliza Madrigal: sad that so many sessions are barren.... Adams is an amazing host
Eden Haiku: Checking mail ...
Riddle Sideways: 7am is ok, but Sunday 7am is specially hard
Bleu Oleander: I know how that feels to host a session and have no one come for weeks ... discouraging
Eliza Madrigal nods... it used to be an ideal time for me, before son began high school and we got up so early on week days
Bleu Oleander: it seems we have to promote a bit via emails perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: I think so
Eliza Madrigal: Eos's sessions were empty for a while as well, not sure he is coming now
Eden Haiku: Oh, just read...so sad.
Bleu Oleander: I never could remember his different time :)
Riddle Sideways: ummmm, 6pm
Riddle Sideways: but what day?
Bleu Oleander: tues
Eliza Madrigal nods.... I set a reminder, but this year have been groggy at nights
Eden Haiku: When I read a session when Adams had only one visitor, and sometimes none, told myself I would go... but then I forgot.
Bleu Oleander: I find I have energy for maybe 3x a week for PaB but sometimes schedule for work gets in the way
Eliza Madrigal: I think when people send reminders it helps a lot, but sometimes people feel like they need to have a theme or clear idea before they do so
Riddle Sideways: well, showing up at somebody else's session kinda nudges them to come to yours

Brainstorming?

Eden Haiku: It would be nice to brainstorm in a guardians meeting maybe to find ways of having more sessions and newvisitors

Eliza Madrigal: true
Eliza Madrigal: I think the tendency is to immediately feel "Oh, if I had only gotten there..."
Riddle Sideways: yep
Eliza Madrigal: but that's too much pressure. PaB has changed a lot and so few visitors, etc
X Eliza Madrigal: there was a time I could spend 15 hrs in SL without much thought at all!
Bleu Oleander: wow
Bleu Oleander: a week?
Riddle Sideways: the visitor/welcome center next door has quite a few ppl at it often
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eden Haiku: Yes, time runs faster for all of us it seems :)
Eliza Madrigal: maybe some of that was time on the wiki, but in general, yes
Eliza Madrigal: I am not sure how, now :)
Eden Haiku: A welcome center for newbies Riddle?
Riddle Sideways: think of the hours Pema spent in SL
Eliza Madrigal nods
Bleu Oleander: just south of us there is a welcome center Eden
Eliza Madrigal: they use voice a lot I think?
Eden Haiku: Ah!
Riddle Sideways: not quite a newbies center
Riddle Sideways: more of a welcome center
Riddle Sideways: has a few instructables
Riddle Sideways: sometimes kids are hanging out, like at a Mall
Eden Haiku: Maybe we should have recruiters for PaB, in pairs like the Mormons elders :)
Bleu Oleander: checked it out once ... yes seems a place for questions
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Bleu Oleander: lol
Eliza Madrigal: I tried that in my youth, never going back
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Riddle Sideways: go in pairs and hand out the Watch Tower mag
Bleu Oleander: recruiting?
Eden Haiku: remembers how lost I felt when I first came to SL...
Eliza Madrigal: I went out in church groups, for something called "evangelism explosion" which I failed
Bleu Oleander: funny to think about going around sl in pairs to recruit
Eliza Madrigal: I'm proud of my failure now, but it felt awful then
Eliza Madrigal: ;)
Bleu Oleander: selling anything seems hard for me
Eden Haiku: Proud of one's failure, that's a good checkmark on an accomplishment list :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Riddle Sideways: :)
Bleu Oleander: even artists have to be their own salespersons these days

--BELL--

A Possibilian

Bleu Oleander: http://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/is-it-possible-to-have-meaningful-failure/
Eliza Madrigal: age of the "you tube star"
Eliza Madrigal clicks
Bleu Oleander: we will meet him on our next NYC trip
Eliza Madrigal: saving for later, looks like a good article
Eliza Madrigal: you've made plans/dates?
Bleu Oleander: yes, end of April
Bleu Oleander: taking a group
Bleu Oleander: we're doing a day at Yale also
Eliza Madrigal: nice, too soon for me to try to go and stowaway, lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: sometime you should join us!
Eliza Madrigal: would really love to
Riddle Sideways: think of all the possibilities
Riddle Sideways: might need to become a Possibilian
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eden Haiku: :)
Eliza Madrigal: what defines a possibilian? bright side thinking?
Riddle Sideways: was ref to http://possibilian.com/
Riddle Sideways: from emails
Eliza Madrigal: ah, nods " in favor of a middle, exploratory ground"
Bleu Oleander: "active exploration of novel possibilities"
Eden Haiku: Will watch that video, thanks Riddle :)
Riddle Sideways: Aggers sent it out
Eden Haiku: Dear Agatha :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

The Red Book and confused algorithms

Bleu Oleander: Aggers sent out the "red book"
Bleu Oleander: was interesting to be reminded of it
Bleu Oleander: quite amazing
Eliza Madrigal: surprised to see the price for the mainstream copy is so low now... was very high at first
Bleu Oleander: reminds me of Blake
Riddle Sideways: oh, Bleu sent the Possibilian link
Riddle Sideways: oops
Bleu Oleander: it's still high for the illustrated version I think
Eliza Madrigal: oh, is that why... didn't see that
Bleu Oleander: but also available as text only
Eliza Madrigal: no fun
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: I love the illustrations
Bleu Oleander: need both I think :)
Eden Haiku: wondering what you are talking about....Google is no help...
Bleu Oleander: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Book_(Jung)
Eden Haiku: Oh, Jung, yes, ok :)
Bleu Oleander: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Book_(Jung)
Bleu Oleander: oops sorry
Eden Haiku: Thanks. All the wonderful illustrations. Title wasn't familiar. Never saw the "real" book. Only online...
Bleu Oleander: meant this: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120129676
Eden Haiku: My desk computer doesn't work well anymore. I always hesitate to use the Web links from here. Its so slow and I get loud ads....

--BELL--

Riddle Sideways: the confusion is compounded by the number of red books on shelfs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book
Eliza Madrigal: this way of dialogging with one's hidden self is fascinating... have seen some do this with alts
Bleu Oleander: yes similar
Eliza Madrigal: or maybe not hidden self, but 'stuff' in unconscious?
Eden Haiku: Ever since I shared my screen to link a new printer...Algoritms are killing me. When I looked up "red book" earlier on Google it gave me Red Book used car values/Auto red book/ car prices / Canadian red book and so on...My Google search is mainly in French so it's messing up things
Eliza Madrigal: ack, Eden
Eden Haiku: Algorithms are unaware I'm bilingual ...
Bleu Oleander: by its nature it must be conscious as we think about it, but somehow we think its from the unconscious
Riddle Sideways: and the Little Red Book by Mao
Eliza Madrigal: making conscious...
Eden Haiku: Yeah, I first thought about the little red book...
Eden Haiku: But there were no illustrations :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Riddle Sideways: hmmmmm :)
Riddle Sideways: no illusions
Riddle Sideways: hi Kor
Bleu Oleander: hi Kori :)
Eden Haiku: hello Korel. Nice to see you :)
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kori :)
Eden Haiku: We have been talking about Jung's Red Book of archetypes.

Riddle on tablet

Riddle Sideways: BTW - should be able to be at Riddle's 7am tommorrow, but on a tablet in the city
Riddle Sideways: so, not so chatty
Eden Haiku: Ah ok, Riddle. Standing avatar then ?
Riddle Sideways: probably
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: so SL doesn't work so well on tablets?
Riddle Sideways: it does work, but typing is harder
Bleu Oleander: was debating whether of not to get a tablet
Bleu Oleander: ah ok
Korel Laloix: never tried it much.
Riddle Sideways: virtual keyboards
Eden Haiku: In fact Korel, we have been talking about communication, rare visitors, scarce attendance at sessions, rare sessions, Bleu's future group trip to New York etc...
Korel Laloix: tablets are nice, convenient.
Bleu Oleander: I think you can get a keyboard for it?
Eliza Madrigal: there are keyboards that make it easier but then additional thing to carry
Eden Haiku: Which **********Applause!!********** do you use Riddle, Sparkle? [meant app as in application but the gesture of applause took over ]
Riddle Sideways: nice summation, Eden
Eden Haiku: **********Applause!!**********[trying to correct my mistake, I type app and the same thing happens]
Bleu Oleander: right ... might as well have a laptop
Eden Haiku: I meant application...
Eliza Madrigal: I use a tablet for kindle and a few other things, but never tried SL
Riddle Sideways: Lumiya
Korel Laloix: i had laptop with cell card for year. worked quite well.
Korel Laloix: years
Eden Haiku: Lumiya... do you have visuals?
Riddle Sideways: yes, crude graphics
Eden Haiku: oh, will try that!
Riddle Sideways: and have learned how to sit
Eliza Madrigal: that's a big step
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eden Haiku: Big step yes!
Riddle Sideways: there are some apps that work better, but ya have to pay to use
Korel Laloix: text only viewers can be very useful with bad connections.
Eden Haiku: Ah yes, true...
Eden Haiku: It was so nice to have Mick from traveling along the Amazon (during a storm!) last Thursday!
Riddle Sideways: yes
Eliza Madrigal: so neat
Riddle Sideways: amazing
Eden Haiku: At TSK session :)
Bleu Oleander: yes! was he on a tablet?
Eliza Madrigal: I think so

--BELL--

Solocamping trips with SL contacts

Bleu Oleander: amazing!
Korel Laloix: have taken solo camping trips where my only contact with other people was in here.
Eden Haiku: Amazing amazoning :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Bleu Oleander: :) Kori
Riddle Sideways: even being around tech for so man years, there still are situations that make one think - wow
Eliza Madrigal: feels like the promise of virtual reality
Eden Haiku: wow! Korel, what an experience!
Bleu Oleander: we're never "home alone" anymore
Riddle Sideways: guess not

Home alone from combat 

Eden Haiku: Had an interesting experience this morning. Started
Korel Laloix: i try to do the solo week away every year.
Bleu Oleander: nice
Riddle Sideways: good
Eden Haiku: Started reading a magazine article right in the middle of a story that took up many pages. Would not have read that kind of material. It was about soldiers in combat.
Eden Haiku: By Sebastian Junger, a war reporter.
Eliza Madrigal: familiar with him
Eden Haiku: He said soldiers have Post Traumatic Syndrome because they miss the closeness of being in a group of 15 to 30 men for long periods of time
Eden Haiku: When they come back, they never find that closeness again. He quotes research saying that's the way our ancestors used to live
Bleu Oleander: http://www.sebastianjunger.com/
Korel Laloix: that sounds silly or incomplete at best.
Riddle Sideways: https://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_junger_why_veterans_miss_war?language=en
Eliza Madrigal: makes sense to me, though wouldn't disagree with incomplete
Eden Haiku: No, it's my summary that is incomplete, he tells about wars trauma, seeings other humans getting killed and so on for sure.
Korel Laloix: i have ptsd because I was abused. so my guess, it is from what happens to them.
Bleu Oleander: http://www.npr.org/2011/07/20/138548989/junger-we-must-understand-many-troops-miss-war
Bleu Oleander: will listen later
Bleu Oleander: must go ... great to be with you all this morning
Korel Laloix: thanks.. will have a look.
Korel Laloix: ciao
Eliza Madrigal: you too, bye Bleu!
Eden Haiku: Bye Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: bye for now
Riddle Sideways: by Bleu

The psychology og group dynamics and oxytocins cravings

Eliza Madrigal: I've been listening to Serial, which is going over the trial of Bow Bergdall (spelling?) [Eliza corrects the spelling further down]
Eliza Madrigal: who is a soldier who left his group in Afghanistan
Eliza Madrigal: and was taken captive...
Eliza Madrigal: the psychology of the group dynamics is fascinating
Eliza Madrigal: really key
Eden Haiku: Yes, Korel, there have been a lot of abuse in the military. He doesn’t address that though. But it should be taken into account for sure...
Korel Laloix: looking up
X Eliza Madrigal: Bowe Bergdahl
Eliza Madrigal: It would make sense wouldn't it.... that throughout generations men were "off to war" or "off to hunt" , with some exceptions... but I know when the kids were little I sort of longed for a women's village support system...
Eden Haiku: Group dynamics... and also hormones. Junger says oxytocin (not sure how to spell): [I checked and corrected my mispellin  g]   has a role in the group experience.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe nostalgic but I think we need to acknowledge the feelings
Eden Haiku: I know it's called the attachment hormone
Korel Laloix: since i trust journalists less than used car salesman, i always look at claims like that sceptically.
Eliza Madrigal: yes bonding hormone.... surges when breastfeeding
Eliza Madrigal: but never read about it emphasizing men... fascinating
Eden Haiku: Yes, I was surprised to read something like that too ;)
Korel Laloix: i loved my group dynamics classes during my psych degree
Eden Haiku: Tell us Korel :)
Eliza Madrigal: they say to girls to be more careful when forming attachments because oxytocin makes it less possible for women to walk away easily... but I've taken that to be nonsense :)
Eden Haiku: That’s oxcytocine, at least in French, Google on my phone is definitely not bilingual. Have to put an English Google on screen :) [and realized it’s not possible anymore...]
Korel Laloix: more focused on how groups can achieve good and bad when singles working to the same goals can't. yhe value of organization and leadership.

--BELL--

Charisma

Eliza Madrigal: listens
Korel Laloix: howg roups can manipulate individuals, and the other way around.
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I've ever thought of that question.... maybe in the context of companies or movements/advertising
Korel Laloix: and the dangers of charisma... and its positive side as well.
Eden Haiku: sounds very interesting...
Eliza Madrigal wonders what hormones are released when captivated by charisma
Eliza Madrigal: it is, like a high
Korel Laloix: i get accused of being charismatic from time to time,,,, but i consider that a bit of an insult.
Eden Haiku: must be oxytocin also... Feeling attached to an individual and his/her group of devotees as a side effect.
Eliza Madrigal: hmm, yes
Riddle Sideways: :)
Eden Haiku: Being accused of being charismatic ??
X Eliza Madrigal: I wouldn't take it as an insult Korel, it is also being "on" or showing up, in a way
Korel Laloix: implies i just have personality .... not ideas and brains.
Eden Haiku: is it because you are a natural leader Korel?
Eliza Madrigal: without charisma sometimes people won't listen to your interesting thoughts :)
Korel Laloix: or a pushy bitch...lol
Eliza Madrigal: :P
Eden Haiku: Subtle doses yes :)
Eden Haiku: :)
Korel Laloix: i guess that may be true..smiles
Eliza Madrigal: btw, I was reading about a public speaking **********Applause!!********** (?) [Eliza made the same mistake as I did before: she means an app as in application, note the gesture ¨applause¨] for google cardboard... man wish I'd had that years ago!
Eliza Madrigal: **********Applause!!********** [same same]
Riddle Sideways: up to whomever views it
Eliza Madrigal: oops - app.
Korel Laloix: and SDS does not help either.
Korel Laloix: short dyke syndrome
Korel Laloix: lol
Riddle Sideways: lol
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eden Haiku: You are still very young Korel, maybe you are not quite aware of your potential as a strong group leader?
Eden Haiku: Oh oh the "absent annoying woman" is back :) [maybe the text hovering her name was already there but I just noticed it over Korel's head]

Need for solo week, need for groups and need to lead

Riddle Sideways: need for solo week, need for groups and need to lead
Korel Laloix: i dont think 29 is young,... smilies but thanks.
Eden Haiku: Yes, It’s very young sweetie, Wait and see :)
Eliza Madrigal: sigh, yes... so young :)
Eden Haiku: Good summary Riddle :)
Korel Laloix: lol
Korel Laloix: wow, will be 30 next year. seems a long time.
Riddle Sideways: lol
Korel Laloix: been on sl more than 1/3 of my life. odd to think that.
Riddle Sideways: remembering daugther (whose birthday it is today) saying "next week I will be 10. that is old"
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: darling
Korel Laloix: planning abig one for Sama later thisyear.
Korel Laloix: party i mean
Korel Laloix: for her 30th.

[It’s about then that I lost my capacity to type. My SL wasn’t completely frozen as I could see others's lines comimg up but I was unable to type or move my camera. I had been trying a close up of Korel as I did of my three regular visitors earlier, but I never could...]

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I cried and cried on my 29th birthday, terrified I was never going to accomplish all I wanted... had already had 3 children and overcome a great great deal but couldn't see it as accomplishment...
X Eliza Madrigal: so now I try to remember that, that it is hard to see what is really going on in any given time
Eliza Madrigal: hard to be unbiased with ourselves
X Korel Laloix: i am so far ahead and away from where i thought i would ever be. amazes me.
Riddle Sideways: yes
Eliza Madrigal: definitely remarkable, Kori
Riddle Sideways: ok, RL calling
Korel Laloix: ciao
Riddle Sideways: must away
Eliza Madrigal: better go too.... wishing you all a lovely day
Eliza Madrigal: have lots of reading material now....
Eliza Madrigal: :) hugs
Korel Laloix: take care.

Eden comes back at the end

[Sadly, my typing only resumed as everyone was leaving]

Eden Haiku: Sorry. Was unable to write
Eden Haiku: Problem with computer. Bye everyone :)
Eden Haiku: Are you still here Korel?  [I could still see  half of her avatar standing in the fountain]
Eden Haiku: Now I can see the chat box and I can type but I can't see much...
Eden Haiku: Sorry for that everyone :(
Eden Haiku: I should never open a Web page while on Firestorm on this computer, And I can't download the new verson of Firestorm on my laptop which has not enough memory anymore....
Eden Haiku: This was a strange session, wasn't it?
Eden Haiku: Like we were all a bit off...I guess that's the way I feel at least :)
Eden Haiku: Computers do reflect our mental states don't they?
Eden Haiku: Weill, force quitting of both Safari and Chrome helped. So I will be able to log in next time :) Waving to Eliza, Riddle, Bleu and Korel.