2017.08.14 13:00 - "Don't Know Mind" and Faberge'

The Guardian for this Wisdom of Lived Experience (Casual) meeting was Eliza. Added comments are added by Eliza.

Image courtesy of Artnet.com

Eliza Madrigal waves hello!
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Raffi :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Raffi.
Raffila Millgrove: Hello Eliza and Bruce.
Eliza Madrigal: without promise of interesting preplanned topic, not sure how many will come today...sort of an in between session
Bruce Mowbray nods, understands.
Eliza Madrigal: anything on your mind though?
Raffila Millgrove: well i am with the flow whater.. so i don't know which end is up so.. it never matters to much to me personally.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: sounds good to me
Agatha Macbeth: Me too
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha, love this dress!

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: Hi Agatha.
Agatha Macbeth: Yours?
Agatha Macbeth: :P
Eliza Madrigal: yours :P
Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
Agatha Macbeth: Oh

Bruce Mowbray: I'd be interested in discussing methods for reducing mental/emotional rigidity. . .
Agatha Macbeth: Thanks
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, aggers.
Agatha Macbeth: Bwucie
Raffila Millgrove: oh it's a sweater dress on Aggers. It is really well done! very pretty.
Agatha Macbeth: TY
Agatha Macbeth: From a place called !go!
Eliza Madrigal: and with the boots just right
Bruce Mowbray nods. Very nice.
Eliza Madrigal: sounds good to me Bruce...will try to keep up...recovering from flu so the last few days have been dizzying :)
Eliza Madrigal: I kept sleeping and waking then checking news...
Eliza Madrigal: then head would hurt and I'd go back to sleep
Bruce Mowbray is perpetually dizzy, so empathizes with Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Agatha Macbeth: Not well Liz?
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Eliza Madrigal: not this weekend unfortunately... today much better but still a little loopy
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray understands "loopy" well.
Eliza Madrigal is grateful for comrades, lol
Agatha Macbeth: Fruit loops

Methods for Reducing Rigidity...

Eliza Madrigal: so, methods for reducing rigidity...
Eliza Madrigal: our own or maxine's?
Raffila Millgrove: flu. it has that .. feature.. doesn't it. of making one feel disoriented. wonder why. you don't get that with colds.
Eliza Madrigal: so true Raffi, and the flu dreams! wow
Bruce Mowbray: Well, the most recent sections in Maxine's book have me reconsidering "Don't Know Mind" and emptiness.
Eliza Madrigal listens
Agatha Macbeth ponders a flu dream
Bruce Mowbray: and those interests brought me to the Berkeley Empty Gate Zen Center,
Bruce Mowbray: so I listened (watched) a few videos from there. Really good.
Eliza Madrigal: nice, what topics?
Bruce Mowbray: Don't Know Mind, mostly.
Agatha Macbeth: Good topuc
Agatha Macbeth: Topic too
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: http://emptygatezen.com/
Agatha Macbeth: Topuc sounds like an Aztec king or something

Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Agatha Macbeth: Bleuji x
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu.
Raffila Millgrove: Bruce you are saying that this topic of DOn't know mind... from websites/buddist/zen.. it seems to match this section of Maxine's book?
Eliza Madrigal: I've felt drawn back towards zen while reading maxine's book too...wonder if it is the feel of it
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, very much so.
Raffila Millgrove: is that correct?
Raffila Millgrove: ok. just to be sure I am with you on what you're saying ty.

Bruce Mowbray: Wel, it also has relevance to Heideggar.
Agatha Macbeth: Aha
Bruce Mowbray: "Being in the world" without having to have discursive knowledge about it.
Bruce Mowbray: also, not having to have all those back stories to explain "being" in the world... although those stories can give flavor to whatever "being" here now might involve...
Eliza Madrigal: sounds like "being in the world but not of the world"
Bruce Mowbray: Yes. Not being attached in a rigid way...
Bruce Mowbray: and "knowledge" (clung to) can stifle that.

Bruce Mowbray: So, I've been using "Don't Know mind " as a method. . . a curious encounter with whatever is happening.
Bruce Mowbray: "What is it?"
Bruce Mowbray: (It's not about understanding as much as experiencing it thoroughly.
Bruce Mowbray: before the mental commentary sets in.)
Bruce Mowbray sits on hands to let others talk.

Bleu Oleander: this sounds a bit "left brain" and certain of a special kind of knowledge .... can we read Maxine without the references to Buddhism/Zen etc or is that necessary? and so a kind of knowledge is needed?
Eliza Madrigal: that's great Bruce, ty. I think I have a feel for what you're saying
Bruce Mowbray: I dont think references to Buddhism are necessary at all.
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think it is necessary, but there are similarities worth noting
Bleu Oleander: so do you think its a richer experience for Buddhists?
Eliza Madrigal: re developing spaciousness
Bruce Mowbray ponders what methods for reducing mental rigidity might be available in non-Buddhist world.

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: oh there are many!
Eliza Madrigal: hm, not especially... but maybe buddhists are more preoccupied with these topics
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I agree with Eliza on that... and Buddhists go directly for it through various methods...
Bruce Mowbray: but it's still not required to go there.
Bleu Oleander: in a way Buddhist seem more left brain to me in all the language used
Bruce Mowbray: Some forms of Buddhist teaching are definitely left-brain -- all that naming, for example.
Raffila Millgrove: I would agree with Bleu.
Bruce Mowbray: all those lists.
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Eliza Madrigal: that's an interesting thought too... I think for everyone there are maybe stages of learning >whateveritis< and integration and expression
Bleu Oleander: many ways to learn
Eliza Madrigal nods... that's what I mean
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bruce Mowbray: But "the middle way" tries to find a way that is not too tight and not too loose...

Raffila Millgrove: I have a different way of looking at this chapter.. so.. when it's time... please ask me to mention. don't want to interrupt into the flow.
Bruce Mowbray: Right after this break, Raffi.
Bleu Oleander: there are many ways of doing that Bruce without using the middle way ... which can seem elitist
Bruce Mowbray: Raffi?
Bleu Oleander listens to Raffi
Eliza Madrigal: Bruce is expressing something personal ... even if elitist in some settings
Bleu Oleander: I wasn't talking personally, sorry if it came across that way :)
Raffila Millgrove: no. i wait a bit till we complete this aspect Bruce brought up.
Raffila Millgrove: cause i think people relate to it. .and are interested in thinking on it more maybe.
Bruce Mowbray: Well, it is personal . .. because recently i've been reactive, rigid... do to stuff going on....
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: we all come from diff angles
Raffila Millgrove: you mean person stuff going on or global stuff.
Raffila Millgrove: ?
Bruce Mowbray: So returning to Don't-Know Mind - Beginner's mind - sort of empties me out. And this also relates to what we're reading in Maxine's book this week.
Bleu Oleander: sure I understand that, but in talking about Maxines book I wasn't talking about anything personal :)
Bruce Mowbray: Everything from North Korea to Charlottesville -- to the riots in my brain. The works.
Raffila Millgrove nods. ty
Eliza Madrigal: ah, I see... I may have implied buddhism and maxine's writing as fitting together on more than a personal level
Eliza Madrigal: okay :) ears clear now!
Raffila Millgrove: bleu .. what do you mean your comment wasn't personal?
Bruce Mowbray: also Heideggar's "way of being in the world..."
Bleu Oleander: I meant that I wasn't doing any kind of personal report, just talking about what I thought was the topic-ish ... I do realize that on some level everything one says is personal tho :)
Agatha Macbeth likes topic-ish
Eliza Madrigal: yeah, it is actually interesting to me that it could be thought of that way...so I'm thinking about it
Bruce Mowbray: To study WoLE is to study the self. . . .
Eliza Madrigal: in a kind of backburner way
Raffila Millgrove: really? .. well this is for you right. you are studying yourself, comparing, experimenting.. with the ideas that you're reading?
Bleu Oleander: I think to read Maxine's book is about different things for each of us and how we come to it from different backgrounds
Bruce Mowbray nods listens.
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: Raffi, ready?
 

Faberge' Eggs

Raffila Millgrove: sure. blends in ok here cause this is my reaction. to reading this chapter.
Raffila Millgrove: which is generalized, not specific to me. a general critic view.
Raffila Millgrove: cause i read the book.... for general knowledge, to learn new things. i didn't do a lot of"personal".. how does this relate to me stuff in reading it.
Raffila Millgrove: .......

Raffila Millgrove: what i wanted to do.. was bring in here a visual.. 3d experience of.. what this chapter felt like.
Raffila Millgrove: and here's the example:
Raffila Millgrove: imagine if you had this collection of a dozen.. gorgeous intricate Fabrige eggs. (sp sp!)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray imagines.....
Raffila Millgrove: all different. all unique and stunning jeweled eggs. someone for god's sake spell Fabrege right for me.
Eliza Madrigal: faberge
Eliza Madrigal: I think?
Agatha Macbeth: Fabergé
Raffila Millgrove: i am losing my train over this bs of getting my spelling together.
Raffila Millgrove: ok ty.
Bruce Mowbray: Works for moi.
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Raffila Millgrove: so.. you got a dozen. so valuable. so beautiful.

--BELL--


Agatha Macbeth: Just call them F eggs :P
Raffila Millgrove: and you take this shelf and you jam them all up.. to show us. you cram 12 egss into a shelf they barely fit on.
Raffila Millgrove: that's what I wanted to show you. the 12 stunning eggs all crammed up.. so you couldn't admire any of them.. they clashed and collided and you were frustrated that you couldn't see each one
Raffila Millgrove: then i would take away .. and only leave 3 there.. move them apart.. and you would sigh with admiration and go.. wow they are amazing.
Agatha Macbeth: Less is more?
Raffila Millgrove: that is how.. as a writer .. i was feeling about the chapter. that Maxine took 3 eggs and jammed them into the same sentence.. and then did another 3 eggs in the next one and so forth.
Raffila Millgrove: in this desire to compare and show how the ideas.. matched up.. and it .. to me.. was like a 12 egg crammed shelf. It detracted so much from what was brilliant thinking and so much work/thought in it.
Raffila Millgrove: it took my breath away to see all this work.. jammed together so I could barely get the eggs moved away from each other to admire them.
Raffila Millgrove: thank you. done.

Eliza Madrigal: ty
Bleu Oleander: what if you had a whole field of F-eggs ... you might say, wow that is amazing also :)
Raffila Millgrove: not if i want to look at each one and understand it.. it would blur out and be a mess Bleu.
Bleu Oleander: well on another level it could be beautiful ... from a different perspective ... at least for me :)
Raffila Millgrove: this isn't personal. comment on this. it's a generalized statement about writing for other people to understand.
Eliza Madrigal: more ocean around the islands needed perhaps
Raffila Millgrove: I prefaced by staying it's a crticial statement by a writer. assessing how this works as writing.
Bleu Oleander: in some ways your F-eggs are like the universe ... we once knew only our small planet, our small space and then we knew more and that knowledge creates a whole new level on which to appreciate reality
Eliza Madrigal: a worthy contemplation :)
Bleu Oleander: its level of perception and different perspectives

Eliza Madrigal: I've been reading Kafka's The Castle, and spent a longer time than usual reading about the translation itself than I would usually do.... the way that different translators opt to hear him
Eliza Madrigal: was quite fascinating... what one is looking for may change according to so many things
Bleu Oleander: indeed
Eliza Madrigal: I haven't finished (re-reading) this chapter though, so I can't comment on the whole feeling yet.... just the part we reached to last week
Bruce Mowbray: so many valid ways of being in the world!
Eliza Madrigal: but will probably be considering eggs when I do read, lol
Bleu Oleander: I love the eggs analogy!
Agatha Macbeth: Eggs-actly
Eliza Madrigal nods, especially since glittery and decorative
Bleu Oleander: it brings it back to art for me :)

Eliza Madrigal: have we all been through radical 'taste' changes in our lives?
Bruce Mowbray: For sure Eliza.
Bleu Oleander: absolutely
Eliza Madrigal: kind of wild, has happened with me with art and cinema more than reading/literature
Eliza Madrigal: and religions, haha
Bleu Oleander: all of that for me :)
Raffila Millgrove: when i interview artists they always say.. they want to communicate with their art.. but they are very ok.. with people bringing their own thoughts/ideas.... they are fine if a viewer doesn't "get" what the artist was communicating.. it's enought that they "get" something.
Bleu Oleander: agree with that ... what the artist thought was important to the artist and not necessarily for the viewer
Raffila Millgrove: but.. if I speak to non fiction writers.. no. not at all the same. they want the reader to understand their explanations.. they don't have to agree with them.. but they are striving to make things clear.. to Agree on understanding. so there's a big different between what a non fiction writer wants as a result and what an artist is expecting.

Bruce Mowbray: Question for Raffi . . . What if someone insisted that only one ONE of those eggs was the "true" egg . . . even though you had an appreciation for each of them?
Raffila Millgrove: be fine by me. i'd understand that the writer... wanted me to know that one egg is the true egg. i don't have to agree but I do have to understand Why she thinks it's the best egg.
Bruce Mowbray: ahhh Excellent answer.
Bleu Oleander: when we speak we often want the reader or the viewer to understand what we mean, however its very hard to control that even with non-fiction
Eliza Madrigal: I always feel a get a key from one place that unlocks the other, sometimes retroactively, across genres. So it means that when I don't find something unlocked, I keep a little eye out
Raffila Millgrove: and that is my point. it's very hard to understand what she's saying.. becuase it's crammed up so tightly against each other.
Bruce Mowbray: me agrees with Raffi. I have to read the material very slowly - and usually more than once.
Agatha Macbeth: Too many notes Mozart
Raffila Millgrove: each idea she has.. i like it.. myself personally. but it take sme forever to decontruct the sentences to find out what she wants me to know.

--BELL--


Bruce Mowbray: Would relating the material to your personal life help to understand it?
Eliza Madrigal: I adore her long sentences....wouldn't feel like I was reading maxine without them... but I understand
Raffila Millgrove: so.. it's a disapointment to me the writer who is very interested and admires her ideas. i want her to .. take more time.... trim it up. make it easier to me to grasp what she wants to tell me.
Bruce Mowbray ponders diagraming Maxine's sentences.
Eliza Madrigal: at first, years ago, she reminded me of doris kearns goodwin... the historian
Eliza Madrigal: long sentences that take you on a bit of a ride themselves
Raffila Millgrove: every time that we as a group read one of her examples. when she talks about herself in the office with a client. or tells us a dream. we're all totally into it.. we love it. and that's what this needed. more of Maxine. less of all these people who influenced her.
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose she wants to have her work rooted
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps Maxine's personalizing her material is also an invitation for us to personalize it.

Bleu Oleander: I didn't have that reaction to Maxine's book ... I felt I did grasp what she was saying and found it to proceed towards a finished concept for me ... however, I don't agree with some of her ideas ... so fun for me to "argue" as I read :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: so quite a wide range even for we here
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I enjoy your arguments Bleu.
Bleu Oleander: that's the value of a group book discussion I think
Eliza Madrigal: I notice with my own reading I often have to re-read things because I miss the content first...caught in a feeling....then doing it this way I've had to go back and look at more of the detail
Bruce Mowbray: Same with me Eliza. also the same with movies and novels.
Eliza Madrigal: definitely
Bleu Oleander: for me as well
Eliza Madrigal: the book has been an emotional journey for me too though, more than I realize all the time
Bruce Mowbray: Also, how I "experience a novel or a movie changes over time -- and across the decades of my life.
Eliza Madrigal: nods nods
Bleu Oleander: must go ... puppy at the vet today with an infection :( take care all
Agatha Macbeth: :(
Bleu Oleander: bfn
Eliza Madrigal: aw, hugs to puppy and hope she feels better
Raffila Millgrove: ok this is gonna be difficult for me to say, but I guess I want it said. how many people who don't know Maxine read this book? she could have emailed it to her 200 nearest/dearest. I'd have preferred it was written to that 10,000 people could have appreciated what she offered.
Bruce Mowbray ponders "emotional journeys" I ahve taken through books and movies.
Eliza Madrigal: my impression is that it has been very well received, especially by colleagues
Bruce Mowbray: I knew Maxine through her dreams workshop before knowing anything about her RL work or writing.
Eliza Madrigal: Bruce, btw not topic but did you give up on twin peaks? :)
Raffila Millgrove: well that's been my point. who was the book written for? and the reply i got.. was general audience. this book was too valuable to be only for a very tiny audience.
Eliza Madrigal: raffi because it is meant to be for both
Bruce Mowbray: Yes I gave up on the current edition of it. I watched all of the old episodes again, though -- from the early 90's.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Eliza Madrigal: that's an example of a show I would have hated when it first came out, that's why I asked :)
Raffila Millgrove: her next book is going to go the same way.... and it's even more relevant for a larger reading public.
Eliza Madrigal: it will find its audience
Eliza Madrigal: I wont' be doing this again but I'd attend if someone else did
Eliza Madrigal: brb

Raffila Millgrove: Bruce. is the new twin peaks New? i didn't know.
Raffila Millgrove: I thought it was showing the old twin peaks.
Eliza Madrigal: back... haven't shopped so having question marks for dinner
Agatha Macbeth: What do they taste like?
Bruce Mowbray: afk for a minute
Eliza Madrigal: there is a new Twin Peaks called The Return Raffi...but it is more like Lynch films than the tv show
Raffila Millgrove: oh!
Eliza Madrigal: which I'd never really been into before
Eliza Madrigal: but I am loving it :)
Raffila Millgrove: is it the same people? I liked the old twin peaks a lot. beautifully shot.
Eliza Madrigal giggles at Agatha
Eliza Madrigal: many of the same people, but many not
Raffila Millgrove: ah ha.
Eliza Madrigal: I love how the older actors are cast
Raffila Millgrove: maybe they have it on hulu. i better see cause i so loved the films and the old tv twin peaks.
Raffila Millgrove: he's such a wild director. so.. his own voice.
Eliza Madrigal: it is a difficult journey for many , I'm probably the minority of those who love love love it
Eliza Madrigal: definitely
Raffila Millgrove: yeah. but it's worth it.
Eliza Madrigal: It is only on showtime I think for now
Raffila Millgrove: ah ha. well hulu lets you watch all of showtime now if you pay extra.
Raffila Millgrove: which i won't of course.
Eliza Madrigal: ah :)

--BELL--


Raffila Millgrove: they will let you watch HBO and Showtime. the one I want is Bravo.. for all my reality shows and they can't seemt o get Bravo.
Eliza Madrigal: so many friends loved the original but no one I know is watching this one... well one person
Eliza Madrigal: licensing is so screwy now
Raffila Millgrove: they say that all this pay extra.. for a broadcast tv chanel like CBS.. and all the other streaming service... it's gonna get so complex. it's already turning people off to pay in 20 different places for content.

Raffila Millgrove: Disney just took their stuff of Netlifx. and people are very irritated on that.
Eliza Madrigal nods, can be a frustration
Raffila Millgrove: it's getting to be too much. i wonder where it will end up.
Eliza Madrigal: heard about that... prob smart for disney honestly...but not fun for parents
Raffila Millgrove: Disney maybe has goofed as they rarely get people upset and this pulling out of Netflix was too much for many parents.
Eliza Madrigal: can only imagine
Eliza Madrigal: need to watch Moana or Frozen on loop when little ones are in the house :)
Raffila Millgrove: you kinda need Disney when you gotta those small children.
Agatha Macbeth loves Frozen
Bruce Mowbray: Haven't seen any DIsney movies in years.
Eliza Madrigal: Frozen is great
Raffila Millgrove: yeah my graddanughter has switched her .. alligaince from Else t that African princess girl.
Raffila Millgrove: my daughter told me.. Elsa is over.. now we are in AFrica with a cheiftan and his daughter. i dont' now what they are talking about.
Eliza Madrigal: those films were a huge part of my kids' lives growing up
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: Moana I think..
Raffila Millgrove: I gotta get updated so i know what slippers to buy next.
Raffila Millgrove: i was going to get Elsa. but now i gotta find this new girl.
Bruce Mowbray: I loved Disney as a child....
Agatha Macbeth: Erk
Raffila Millgrove: yes I think her name is Moana.

Eliza Madrigal: my kids are still mad that I wouldn't let them watch Bambi growing up, but it just affected me so deeply that I was afraid for them to be traumatized
Bruce Mowbray: last Disney movie I've seen was Aladin.
Raffila Millgrove: i gotta get a photo of her. it was nice when she was two... there was a TON of Minny mouse stuff and I am crazy for minny.. so we had a lovely run there.
Bruce Mowbray: Bambi was traumatic.
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Eliza Madrigal: right?!
Eliza Madrigal: but they are still listing that as one of my top parenting foibles
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Time to scrape up supper.
Raffila Millgrove: Bambi was my first movie. they let me watch it twice at the movie theater.. and when i was geared up for a 3rd viewing.. they hauled me out screaming and crying .....
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you good people.
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bruce :) hugs and thanks
Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well Brucie
Bruce Mowbray: See you all on Thursdya, I hope.
Bruce Mowbray: also on Thursday.
Raffila Millgrove: bye Brucie.
Raffila Millgrove: see you then.
Eliza Madrigal: I am not sure why it affected me so deeply.... but disney is great at that
Raffila Millgrove: I gotta go research this Moana chick which I can still remember the name.
Eliza Madrigal: :) bye Raffi, tc
Raffila Millgrove: by Eliza and aggers.
Agatha Macbeth: Enjoy

Eliza Madrigal: I may just let everyone eat question marks...
Agatha Macbeth: They may be good salted
Eliza Madrigal: :) mojo
Agatha Macbeth: Flojo
Eliza Madrigal: what is "diamond dog" ?
Agatha Macbeth: A song by Bowie
Eliza Madrigal: a tag you made?
Agatha Macbeth: Not me poysonally, someone else
Eliza Madrigal: ah :)
Agatha Macbeth: I need it to rez stuff
Eliza Madrigal: nice
Agatha Macbeth: Better
Agatha Macbeth: All this group rights stuff can get confusing
Eliza Madrigal: I've never rented in another place
Eliza Madrigal: but even here everything has to be spelled and respelled out to me each time
Eliza Madrigal: I guess I have not knowing mind, haha
Agatha Macbeth: If you own your own it's easier
Eliza Madrigal: I haven't really had to set permissions here either, that kind of thing
Agatha Macbeth: Basically as long as griefers can't rez stuff that's all you need worry about
Eliza Madrigal nods... I prob need to reset everything since the move
Eliza Madrigal: or should I call it the switch ;-)
Agatha Macbeth: The switch?
Eliza Madrigal: I switched with RIddle
Agatha Macbeth: Sounds like a super hero
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Eliza Madrigal: haha..
Agatha Macbeth: Botty Absent
Eliza Madrigal: yup :)
Eliza Madrigal: Riddle actually uses his space...
Eliza Madrigal: so I didn't need that much
Agatha Macbeth: Sprinkler land
Eliza Madrigal: I just keep the sprinkler
Agatha Macbeth: Snap
Eliza Madrigal: yup
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I should put the sprinkler in the lotus one day
Agatha Macbeth: And a fine job it does
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Agatha Macbeth: As opposed to the jewel?
Eliza Madrigal: to clean the jewel
Agatha Macbeth: Right
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Once saw that typo'd as 'Jew in the lotus' - I couldn't stop laughing
Eliza Madrigal shakes head
Eliza Madrigal: getting hungry...
Agatha Macbeth: Like Thomas the Rhino
Agatha Macbeth: OK enjoy your question marks
Eliza Madrigal: will try :)
Eliza Madrigal: Night friend, tc
Agatha Macbeth: TC Lizzykins