2017.08.24 13:00 - WoLE Session: Totality Paths and Substrate Understandings

The Guardian for this  The Wisdom of Lived Experience - Views from Psychoanalysis, Neuroscience, Philosophy and Metaphysics meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

Eliza Madrigal: Hey Hey, how was the eclipse Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: One of the most spectacular events of my entire life.
Eliza Madrigal: wow, that's wonderful
Catrinamonblue Resident: :) awesome
Eliza Madrigal: I thought it was fantastic at 80%...honestly cannot imagine how amazing for you
Bruce Mowbray: I posted a web page about it: http://hermitdog.com/Eclipse/Eclipse.htm
Catrinamonblue Resident: we had about 67% here in Ontario :)
Eliza Madrigal: ah, excellent
Catrinamonblue Resident: had a great time with that
Bruce Mowbray: We had totality for 2 minutes 26 seconds
Eliza Madrigal: :)) that's great Cat
Eliza Madrigal: I was sort of bummed by how few people seemed interested at all here
Eliza Madrigal: that's a long time, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Tura!
Catrinamonblue Resident: last minute youngest and I built a pin hole camera to look :) had a bit of fun doing that together and looking )
Tura Brezoianu: hi all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tura, Bruce is telling us about his eclipse experience
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Tura :)

Bruce Mowbray: http://hermitdog.com/Eclipse/Eclipse.htm

Eliza Madrigal: ah, nice
Tura Brezoianu listens
Eliza Madrigal: is that your photo Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Not my photo (on the page) but the videos are all mine.
Bruce Mowbray: I didn't have a telescope, but several folks around me did.
Eliza Madrigal wondering if your NASA glasses were superior to my whatevertheyweres
Eliza Madrigal: :) have had a bit of eye aches
Eliza Madrigal clicks on video
Bruce Mowbray: My NASA glasses were good -- paper with plastic filers.
Bruce Mowbray: filters*
Bruce Mowbray: They fell off the top of my car during totality, though.
Eliza Madrigal: Nice title "Waiting for Totality"
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, aggers.
Agatha Macbeth: Woot
Eliza Madrigal: Btw, Aph is traveling and Bleu is having pretty awful computer issues today...
Agatha Macbeth: erk

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: How about Mick?
Eliza Madrigal: Haven't heard from him, so hopefully just running a few minutes late
Eliza Madrigal meeting nice family on Bruce's video
Bruce Mowbray nods, hope so.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Raffi :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Raffi.
Raffila Millgrove: Hi everyone
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Raff
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi raffi :) Aggers :)
Eliza Madrigal grinning. I can hear the giddiness in your voice Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I was pretty excited!
Bruce Mowbray: as was everyone around me.
Agatha Macbeth grins
Eliza Madrigal: I did that... putting the glasses over my cameras
Raffila Millgrove: whihch video.... his family?
Eliza Madrigal: http://hermitdog.com/Eclipse/Eclipse.htm
Eliza Madrigal: Bruce traveled to be in totality
Bruce Mowbray: I couldn't see anything with the glasses covering the camera's lens, so I left it off.

Eliza Madrigal: We'll start with regular session in just a few minutes. Nice to appreciate these astounding moments
Bruce Mowbray looks high and low for Micko.
Eliza Madrigal: hahah, I heard about people doing fireworks in Oregeon  
{comment understood only if watching video simultaneously}
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yep. Pretty amazing stuff -- worth celebrating!
Eliza Madrigal: beautiful
Bruce Mowbray: Some day I MUST learn how to use my cell phone's camera, though.
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bruce. Everyone give a signal when finished with the videos ^.^
Bruce Mowbray: I'm finished.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I was like Cat, out with my youngest. It was a special moment.
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: reminded me of a meteor shower that took place when my oldest was very young. We often don't have great visibility due to light pollution, but that night was just wow
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, you know I'm remembering too, that Mick said he was traveling.... would try to come but wasn't sure
Bruce Mowbray: I wandered around the various folks who were waiting for totality -- and everyone was excited, friendly, and wanting to share.
Eliza Madrigal: nice feeling
Bruce Mowbray: kk, I suppose we can excuse Mick, THIS time.... :)
Eliza Madrigal: if we must we must

Eliza Madrigal: Did everyone get to read Chapter 7?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I did.
Raffila Millgrove: yes.
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes :)
Tura Brezoianu: yes
Eliza Madrigal: oh wow, all of us
Eliza Madrigal: (seem to be saying wow a lot today, will stop that, hah)
Agatha Macbeth: Wow
Tura Brezoianu: not necessarily got everything from it :)
Eliza Madrigal: :P
Bruce Mowbray: Wow!
Eliza Madrigal nods Tura, I sort of zeroed in on the PaB stuff naturally
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Catrinamonblue Resident: I should qualify that with it was a fast read through.... not necessarily understanding
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Eliza Madrigal: Would someone like to offer first thoughts, or a report if you have one?
Bruce Mowbray: I have a report....
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Bruce Mowbray: but also want to hear others"
Bruce Mowbray: others' reports....
Eliza Madrigal: I have a piece of a report, but yes me too
Eliza Madrigal: Still it would be great if you'd begin Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: OK. I will break the ice....
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Bruce Mowbray: Chapter Seven ignited my three “substrate” understandings of “How It Is”:

Bruce Mowbray: (1) BEING is infinite: There is no “where” that Being is not. – I call this “pan-ontology.” [Piet Hut (aka Pema) describes Being as having “no contour, edge or limit.”]
Bruce Mowbray: (2) GOD is infinite: There is no space, time, or mental state in which God is not the center. – I call this “pan-theism.” [“God is that circle whose circumference is nowhere and whose center is everywhere.”]

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: (3) MIND is infinite: Nothing that exists lacks cognition. From quark to brain, everything has a mental state(s). Only the complexity of each thing’s mentality differs. --- I call this “pan-psychism.”
Bruce Mowbray: Such understandings of Being, God, and Mind are, of course, metaphors. Scavenging for appropriate metaphors is the abiding preoccupation of physics, metaphysics, and art.
Bruce Mowbray: A useful metaphoric framework for understanding “Being,” “God,” and “Mind” might be musical instruments.
Bruce Mowbray waits ....

Bruce Mowbray: Before a performance, all symphonies “tune up” to an oboe’s sustained musical note “A” -- 440 hertz.
Bruce Mowbray: The symphony’s diverse instruments take the oboe’s cue – each instrument instantiates the same original sound via that instrument’s unique resonance.
Bruce Mowbray: The metaphor “works” well. Every instrument’s participation in the oboe’s “A” suggests [to me anyway] how every “thing” might participate in Being, in God, and in Mind.
Bruce Mowbray: This morning I listened to journalist Robert Wright interviewing cosmologist Brian Greene. Greene used the musical instruments metaphor to “explain” the eleven-dimensional cosmos upon which quantum space-time theory depends. Each dimension, he said, denotes a specific quantum [sub-atomic] resonance.
Bruce Mowbray: Maxine’s chapter also embraces “being and becoming” as evolutionary processes – a progressive, cyclic flourishing from seed to bud to flower - to seed, again.
Bruce Mowbray: I envision Being, God, and Mind as three co-existing evolutionary processes – none excluding or dominating the other two. As Alan Watts put it, everything shares “Supreme Identity.” [done]

Eliza Madrigal: That's just so well articulated, Bruce. Would love to see a mini book with photographs :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: oh wow... Bruce.... I love that...
Bruce Mowbray: ty. :)
Eliza Madrigal: I love to ponder frequencies/dimensions, too
Bruce Mowbray: I finally felt I could "see" it after I heard Greene's metaphor.
Bruce Mowbray: each dimension being a specific resonance -- like diverse musical instruments.
Eliza Madrigal: I've only heard him give the bread slices analogy
Bruce Mowbray listens for others' reports.
Eliza Madrigal: will look for the link, or if you have it, will you please add to comments or log?
Bruce Mowbray: I will get the link for you. . .
Eliza Madrigal: Who would like to share next?
Eliza Madrigal: (thanks)

Eliza Madrigal: Hm, well I was going to wait since I got wordy, and actually what I'll share is just a snippet of what I wrote... but, since everyone is quiet...
Agatha Macbeth: You wordy?
Eliza Madrigal: mhm, worse and worse these days
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Egad
Eliza Madrigal: Maxine describes her conditioning toward getting the right answer and getting it as soon as possible (not a non-intuitive faculty in itself), vs. not closing down on another level/kind of intuition that may more comfortably leave answers more tentative or even open ended.
Eliza Madrigal: She describes her experience with Piet, and with Play as Being, and the difficulty of not bending toward a leader, nor setting a goal, while still nurturing a process of coming alive.
Eliza Madrigal: She also describes her difficulty of not quite immersing in the environment of Second Life itself, which perhaps off-set her sense of exploration at times(?).
Eliza Madrigal: This last part about SL I think is really poignant, but I'll reserve comments to add to the log.
Bruce Mowbray: More! More!
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: I'm skipping ahead...
Eliza Madrigal: So as much as there is magic and potential in SL, and perhaps this relates to PaB as well by extension, there are still great limitations in our following through. Which is why the Being exploration, I think, is always supposed to have been, 75% homework. It can have no timeline and there is nowhere that it reliably 'takes place', but we can cultivate certain attitudes that might make us more on the look out for arisings. And those arisings seem to be what we can most often share with one another.
Eliza Madrigal: (nowhere that it takes place is sort of the reverse of what you wrote re everywhere, Bruce)
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Eliza Madrigal: It is 'possible' to share the direct explorations, and there are times we have, as with our thought and no-thought experiments during pauses, but that is probably the alien territory Maxine mentioned. It is easy, but can be pretty awkward, and not something grown-ups usually do... going into 'places that aren't there' together. I think it took someone like Piet, to not feel kind of silly when expressing ourselves.
Eliza Madrigal: So as much as I valued and value Piet's articulations, it is his playful bravery I've wanted deeply to cultivate... something unique to him and imparted to us by example, but necessary to act upon to release (our own) unique capacities.
Agatha Macbeth: Playful bravery!
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, San.
Eliza Madrigal: I'll end for now [done]

Agatha Macbeth: Love it
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San!
Santoshima Resident: ty, hello
Agatha Macbeth: Hi San
Bruce Mowbray: Here's a link to the Brian Greene interview Eliza:
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2RPYw4nqBE&t=11s

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bruce, and everyone for the pause :)
Eliza Madrigal: San, would you like a note? We've just been talking about Maxine's comments re exploring Being
Eliza Madrigal: and own sensibilities :)
Santoshima Resident: no thanks, will listen
Eliza Madrigal: k :)
Eliza Madrigal: Other's thoughts?
Catrinamonblue Resident: I have not a report per say but a comment with a personal note first to preface......
Eliza Madrigal: great

Catrinamonblue Resident: I am tired these days, a bone weary kind of tired that impairs my ability to be me, I have gone with the flow for the past 4 years and need to swim to shore for a bit but the current is still strong and pushing me along. I'm trying not to fight but am very weary....
Catrinamonblue Resident: I find it hard to read Maxine's book. I find it hard to get around her words and find my connection with what she is saying. I find that connection when others draw the lines for me, then I can colour in with myself.
Catrinamonblue Resident: done

Bruce Mowbray: Wow, thank you for your candor, Cat. I often feel that way myself.
Agatha Macbeth throws Cat a lifebelt
Catrinamonblue Resident: thanks both :)
Raffila Millgrove: ty Catrina.
Eliza Madrigal: Sorry to hear about the weariness... often deal with that myself and it isn't easy
Catrinamonblue Resident: part of the reason for the facebook break
Eliza Madrigal nods, a very good idea
Catrinamonblue Resident: I do love what Bruce said and it does help me find that connection to Maxine's writing
Bruce Mowbray: I go to FB roughly once a month.
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I don't connect with everything, just some things or one thing... nothing to feel badly about in any way and it is great to have one another to hear through at times
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods :)
Bruce Mowbray also nods.
Catrinamonblue Resident: listens for others :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thoughts today, Tura?
Tura Brezoianu: a few
Eliza Madrigal listens

Tura Brezoianu: Two ideas stood out for me.
Tura Brezoianu: The first is her point that theories offer ways to organise data,
Tura Brezoianu: but then people take the theory to be reality
Tura Brezoianu: and teh data some messy, imperfect approximation
Tura Brezoianu: but the theory is actually one step further removed form reality than the data
Bruce Mowbray nods. Good point. (same with metaphor).
Tura Brezoianu: (this is a mixture of my own thoughts and Maximes)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Tura Brezoianu: A second thing is she mentions people tended to take Piet as an authority figure
Tura Brezoianu: whch hindered the work he was trying to do.
Tura Brezoianu: Actually a third: I would like to have been here in those days.
Tura Brezoianu: done

Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Eliza Madrigal: would love for you to have been, but happy you are here now
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, Tura.
Catrinamonblue Resident: thank you Tura :) I,too, would have loved to have been here when he was here.
Tura Brezoianu: (and I wonder, what else in the world am I missing out on it happening, just because I've never come across it?)
Eliza Madrigal: right?!
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth: CBE
Eliza Madrigal: ?
Agatha Macbeth: Can't be everywhere
Eliza Madrigal: aha
Eliza Madrigal: not like Being.... hehe
Agatha Macbeth: Ar
Tura Brezoianu: ah!
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm. Maybe you can, actually. . . .
Agatha Macbeth pushes Brucie in the pool
Bruce Mowbray: Ha ha!
Tura Brezoianu: Everywhere you are, you can be :)
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Catrinamonblue Resident: :
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Raffi? Thoughts today?

Raffila Millgrove: A second thing is she mentions people tended to take Piet as an authority figure [13:39] Tura Brezoianu: whch hindered the work he was trying to do.

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: This chapter, unlike the rest, is the only one where most of us.. were here. We could have commented on the one section that we actually have personal experience in. The theme of this book is about.. depending less on authorities in theory and mentors and balancing with your own shadows, dreams, and experiences. I think it has been a missed opportunity to not comment on the PAB experience that Maxine had. I think I might add thoughts to today's log under comments. Done.

Eliza Madrigal: missed opportunity?
Eliza Madrigal: ah, seeing Bleu sign on. maybe computer repair...
Agatha Macbeth: She got the screwdriver out
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: and her hammer.
Agatha Macbeth nods
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Like the duck
Eliza Madrigal: I just kept thinking about the direct experience aspects of PaB that Pema could get us into
Eliza Madrigal: but were pretty difficult for others of us to lead
Agatha Macbeth: Bleuji :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Bleu.
Eliza Madrigal: Similar to sallies, it was hard for me to not be self-conscious and just go in

Bleu Oleander: hi :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu! :)
Eliza Madrigal: Computer okay?
Agatha Macbeth: Can't keep you away
Bleu Oleander: nope totaled :(
Eliza Madrigal: ugh ugh ugh
Agatha Macbeth: >.<
Bruce Mowbray: :(((
Tura Brezoianu: hi Bleu!
Bleu Oleander: it's a struggle on my old laptop so until I decide what to do I'm not going to be in much
Raffila Millgrove: oh that is not good news Bleu. so sorry.
Catrinamonblue Resident: oh dear Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: bummer
Bleu Oleander: bummer
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: at least you can sign on a little
Eliza Madrigal: just not with full creative range I guess
Bleu Oleander: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: too much to catch you up on re session today, but did you have thoughts about the chapter this week?
Bruce Mowbray listens....
Bleu Oleander: I did but can't think of anything at the moment
Bleu Oleander: just really trying out this option
Eliza Madrigal: :) some of us are adding comments to the log, and we also have Monday
Bleu Oleander: kk
Bleu Oleander: hi and bye for now ...
Eliza Madrigal: bye for now!
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Raffila Millgrove: wow what a shame.
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye bleu
Eliza Madrigal: boo, hope she works it out fast

Eliza Madrigal: further thoughts on what was shared today?
Eliza Madrigal: wb San!
Bruce Mowbray: wb, San.
Santoshima Resident: sorry
Agatha Macbeth: Wb
Eliza Madrigal: No worries at all, but did you have thoughts about this section or pab in general?
Santoshima Resident: listening mode only today ... will read the minutes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Santoshima Resident: mostly plumbing repairs and painting in mind
Raffila Millgrove: we do have Monday as well which Eliza mentioned.. to continue sharing....
Bruce Mowbray nods.... San is picking up on our vibrations (resonance, alas!)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)

Eliza Madrigal: Did anyone happen to see my earlier email? Would love for others to consider trying guardianing
Raffila Millgrove: since switching reports to thurs cause Aph cannot come this month on Monday.
Eliza Madrigal nods... and Aph is traveling today, but maybe she can add comments also
Agatha Macbeth read that as 'gardening'
Eliza Madrigal: cultivating :)
Santoshima Resident: so did i
Raffila Millgrove: thought it was about hosting. lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth: :D
Santoshima Resident: was almost tempted by that
Eliza Madrigal: you could host a gardening session San :)
Santoshima Resident: gardening a session
Santoshima Resident: hols more appeald
Santoshima Resident: holds
Santoshima Resident: appeal
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Santoshima Resident: if i could type
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Santoshima Resident: i'd offer
Eliza Madrigal: everyone speaks typo
Raffila Millgrove: some of it even write it like pros.
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. Time for me to be scraping up supper . . . Hoping to see everyone on Monday.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Raffila Millgrove: "us"... not "it" see I am a real pro.
Santoshima Resident: bye Bruce cheers
Agatha Macbeth: Scrape well Brucie
Eliza Madrigal: bye Bruce, happy scraping and thanks for the eclipse report!
Bruce Mowbray: bye for now, good people.
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye bruce :)
Raffila Millgrove: bye Bruce.

--BELL--

Raffila Millgrove: bye all. See you Monday.
Eliza Madrigal waves
Catrinamonblue Resident: bye Raffi :)
Agatha Macbeth: BFN
Eliza Madrigal: Agatha, I didn't put you on the spot but will now... lol
Agatha Macbeth: ?
Agatha Macbeth: Wot u want?
Eliza Madrigal: thoughts, re PaB? Etc?
Agatha Macbeth: Er
Agatha Macbeth: None ATM TBH
Eliza Madrigal: :) k
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Or do mean about gardening?
Eliza Madrigal: that falls under Etc
Catrinamonblue Resident: slips away... need to go see about food.....
Agatha Macbeth: Riiight
Eliza Madrigal: bye Cat, feel better :)
Agatha Macbeth: ^.^
Catrinamonblue Resident: ty :)
Agatha Macbeth: Swim well cattty
Eliza Madrigal hums 'sometimes she do get weary...'    

[ Try a Little Tenderness:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjNFfmzgKaw ]

Eliza Madrigal: Bye Tura :) good to see you today
Tura Brezoianu: thanks for the meeting
Agatha Macbeth: With 3 ts
Tura Brezoianu: goodnight
Agatha Macbeth: TC Tu

(((((((Agatha)))))))))

Agatha Macbeth: So, about gardening
Eliza Madrigal: yes? :)
Agatha Macbeth: Do you need someone to post logs or...
Eliza Madrigal: the sessions will fall by the wayside unless someone steps in for these times
Agatha Macbeth: You're otherwise engaged?
Eliza Madrigal: I really want to concentrate on the dream sessions for a bit, and attend others' sessions for a while...
Eliza Madrigal: try to shed the feeling of always hosting
Agatha Macbeth: Ah I see
Agatha Macbeth: A perspective thang
Eliza Madrigal nods
Agatha Macbeth: Well I'm always happy to take the log
Agatha Macbeth: I don't have your management skills tho
Agatha Macbeth: This is where we miss Wol
Eliza Madrigal: would you like to try to host one of the sessions? you have done great before
Eliza Madrigal: I miss Wol too
Agatha Macbeth: If you like
Agatha Macbeth: If it makes things easier
Eliza Madrigal: well I don't want to ask you to do it for me...

Agatha Macbeth: OK I'll volunteer
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yay