2014.10.30 13:00 - Reflections on Impermanence and PaB Innocence

The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Helo Bleu :)
Eliza Madrigal: ntsy
Bleu Oleander: yes, ntsy!
Eliza Madrigal: What has been going on?
Bleu Oleander: settling into fall, you?
Eliza Madrigal: me too.. Fall is my favorite season, like many people I think
Eliza Madrigal: It has been pleasant here
Bleu Oleander: I like spring best I think
Bleu Oleander: although used to like fall best
Eliza Madrigal: My hair looks good in Fall, lol
Bleu Oleander: lol that's true!
Bleu Oleander: cool dry air
Eliza Madrigal: exactly

Eliza Madrigal: :) And what about avi creation... how is that going?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce
Bleu Oleander: anyone doing it yet?
Bleu Oleander: hi Bruce
Bleu Oleander: Nov 15, right?
Eliza Madrigal: I am contemplating names and finding that a large part of the exploration
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Bruce Mowbray: 16th I think
Eliza Madrigal: 16? well, I'll check and see which is the saturday and send another email soon

Bleu Oleander: names are important, the rest is easy :)
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't give a lot of thought to this name, just kind of followed a light reasoning
Eliza Madrigal: the missing part of my RL middle name, plus a kind of song that I liked a lot at the time
Bleu Oleander: I just looked out the window at the tall Oleanders :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I've met many Oleanders in SL

Bruce Mowbray: I have my new avi named and in-world. He's even attended a few meeting with me simultaneously - the first time I've ever attempted that. Fascinating.
Bleu Oleander: wow fun Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: do you find that disorienting?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, it has been fun -- a whole new learning experience... like looking at myself through two mirror reflections at the samer time.
Bleu Oleander: I've had alts before, but never with the intent to start fresh with PaB
Eliza Madrigal: right , me too. I have no other alt who is as alive as Eliza
Bruce Mowbray: me neither.

Bleu Oleander: of course clearing my mind might be a tad more difficult than changing my avi :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) it seems an exercise that is a challenge both personally and how we are with one another
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: can we really intentionally suspend "the past"
Bleu Oleander: my guess is yes and no lol
Bruce Mowbray: Yes! And that's why I wanted to bring my new avi in-world asap . . . so I could get accustomed to her/him ... first!
Eliza Madrigal: it is pretty wild... how to hold the accumulations lightly to make way for something different

Eliza Madrigal: is it hard, Bruce? where does Bruce" go now?
Bruce Mowbray: I have been introducing my new avi to the "accumulations." -- I hope that's OK.
Bleu Oleander: how to act "honestly" while at the same time holding "what you know" lightly
Eliza Madrigal: exactly

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: So far, Bruce has been right there with the new avi, so no problem 'dropping' him -- so far.... But we might want to clarify the rules on that.
Eliza Madrigal: It has to be okay Bruce, since it is your unique exploration, and then we learn from one another :)
Bleu Oleander: can never truly get back our PaB innocence
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Eliza Madrigal: well PaB itself is different
Eliza Madrigal: can't step in the same river twice?
Bleu Oleander: that too
Bleu Oleander: step into the same fountain twice :)
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Eliza Madrigal: sure looks like the same fountain
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bruce Mowbray: :)))
Bleu Oleander: hehe

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers!
Bleu Oleander: hey Aggers
Bruce Mowbray: aggers!
Agatha Macbeth: Evening all
Eliza Madrigal: you look like a roller derby super hero today
Agatha Macbeth: Oh...um
Agatha Macbeth: Well
Agatha Macbeth: Thanks
Bruce Mowbray: I thought you might have gotten lost in the fog of the time change!
Agatha Macbeth: (I think)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah, first thing to come to mind
Bleu Oleander: oh time change sunday?
Agatha Macbeth: Yes I almost forgot it was an hour earlier
Eliza Madrigal: we're talking about whether it is really possible to enter PaB 'anew'
Bruce Mowbray: Europe did it last weekend.
Bleu Oleander: ah ok
Agatha Macbeth: I'm sure it is
Eliza Madrigal: [13:17] Bleu (Bleu Oleander): can never truly get back our PaB innocence

Agatha Macbeth: Were we innocent to begin with then? :p
Bruce Mowbray ponders whether he was ever truly innocent....
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Or maybe just naive ha
Bruce Mowbray: Naive, for sure..... but "innocent"?
Bleu Oleander: PaB innocent ... general innocence is a way different matter lol
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Agatha Macbeth: Could be
Eliza Madrigal: the innocence seems always there to be uncovered somehow
Eliza Madrigal: like the way people describe being 80 but feeling 16 still
Bleu Oleander: innocence there to BE covered ha ha!
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Agatha Macbeth: Oh my
Eliza Madrigal: well for me I've been asking what PaB 2.0 might be

Bruce Mowbray: yet another "reason" to view our multiple "selves" --- That innocent little boy is still in there somewhere.
Bleu Oleander: any answers yet?
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it will have oculus rift
Agatha Macbeth: 4D PaB
Bruce Mowbray: Ha!
Bruce Mowbray: 
Eliza Madrigal: I think I can leave behind some things, but it would be hard to articulate what they are exactly
Bleu Oleander: smellavision PaB ha!
Eliza Madrigal: some of it is just accepting that PaB is different
Agatha Macbeth holds her nose

Bruce Mowbray: Are you at work on a new avi yet, aggers?
Bleu Oleander: PaB is evolving, not a static group for sure
Agatha Macbeth: Not sure of the parameters as yet
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Eliza Madrigal: sign of health that everyone does things diffrently
Bleu Oleander: new name, new look, start fresh at PaB??
Eliza Madrigal: that's the gist :)
Bruce Mowbray: nods.

Agatha Macbeth: Is this 'noob as being' thing definitely happening then?
Eliza Madrigal: it is happening for me, and that's where my responsibility for it ends :))
Agatha Macbeth: Okaaay
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Bleu Oleander: for whoever wants to
Bruce Mowbray LOVES "NOOB AS BEING"
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: yes cute
Agatha Macbeth: A kind of extended art project then?
Bleu Oleander: sorta
Bleu Oleander: but can be for "real"
Agatha Macbeth: Hm, sounds good
Bruce Mowbray: extended . . . or distended....
Bruce Mowbray: whatever that might mean.
Eliza Madrigal: i keep reminding myself "easy, playful, fun"

Bruce Mowbray: I am "discovering" lots of new things with me new avi. . . . An adventure, to be sure.
Agatha Macbeth: You are all three
Bruce Mowbray: Fun!
Eliza Madrigal: are you going other places as new avi, Bruce?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I am.
Bruce Mowbray: as both of us.
Bruce Mowbray: (two viewers required.)
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Bleu Oleander: I will do that too .... thinking I might stay with the new avi for a while
Bruce Mowbray: never did that before now.
Bruce Mowbray: (can you tell I'm not using the dragon today?)
Eliza Madrigal: I have done that but rarely... only if there was a schedule conflict and I wanted to be in two places
Agatha Macbeth: Then you can't seem to focus on either tho
Bleu Oleander: we did that for the Art of Being an Alt project I think
Bruce Mowbray: I cannot imagine trying to interact with two avis in two different sims at the same time.
Bleu Oleander: was hard to be both

Agatha Macbeth: Alt of Being perhaps
Bleu Oleander: yes that one
Bruce Mowbray: I was just that TREE thing.
Eliza Madrigal: one decision I need to make, is whether to come closer to home, ie integrating with RL more, with new avi.... or whether to drop the RL as much as possible and allow for as much of a 'new being' as possible
Bruce Mowbray: (but not Bruce, alaso.)
Agatha Macbeth: Branch manager?
Bruce Mowbray: away from keyboard for a sec... brb.
Bleu Oleander: interesting question Eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Leaf well alone I say
Eliza Madrigal: it comes up when considering names
Bleu Oleander: yes

Agatha Macbeth: Hello San
Bleu Oleander: hi San
Santoshima Resident: hello :)
Eliza Madrigal: very powerful, all the associations that a name contains
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San :)
Agatha Macbeth nods
Bleu Oleander: indeed
Eliza Madrigal: we're talking about new avi creation

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: To aggers: I didn't see you in-world yesterday, so HAPPY BIRTHDAY -- one day late.
Bruce Mowbray: 
Bruce Mowbray: 
Agatha Macbeth: Will there be an email sent out about this?
Eliza Madrigal: :)) yes happy birthday Aggers <3 Hope your day was wonderful
Agatha Macbeth: Oh thanks brucie
Bruce Mowbray: Yikes!
Agatha Macbeth: :)
Bleu Oleander: happy happy!!
Eliza Madrigal: There was one, with guardian session, and yes there will be more
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Right
Eliza Madrigal: I'm hopeless with pab emails. I think because I'm always doing ten other things when I stop to write them
Agatha Macbeth: Just so we know what's occuring
Eliza Madrigal: I send then see all my weird errors

Bleu Oleander: it would be fun if everyone came at least to the first session with a new avi so we could sense if we knew who was who or not
Eliza Madrigal: but I'll try to write a clear one
Eliza Madrigal: yes I hope that is what happens Bleu
Agatha Macbeth grins
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Negafook, welcome
Santoshima Resident: nov 15?
Negafook Resident: good evening
Bleu Oleander: hi Negafook
Agatha Macbeth: Oh what day is that?
Santoshima Resident: hello negafook.
Eliza Madrigal: 15th is Saturday
Santoshima Resident: nov 15? is that the start day for new avi?
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, good

Eliza Madrigal: Negafook, I'll give you a note about the group..and I want to let you know that these sessions are recorded to a public wiki. OK to include your comments?
Negafook Resident: yes, thanks
Negafook Resident: I was here earlier in the week actually
Eliza Madrigal: wonderful, thanks
Eliza Madrigal: ah, okay so you may already have a nc?
Negafook Resident nods
Eliza Madrigal: OK
Negafook Resident: I helped myself from the box over there actually
Eliza Madrigal: perfecto
Negafook Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hola
Negafook Resident: buenos tardes

Bruce Mowbray: To make "weird error" is human. To forgive oneself for making them: divine.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Weirdly divine in fact
Negafook Resident: well, isn't self-forgiveness the hardest kind ...
Eliza Madrigal: in some perspectives, humans are weird errors to begin with, lol
Agatha Macbeth: True that
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes Negafook
Bruce Mowbray: Welcome, San-ji and Negafook!
Bleu Oleander: weird maybe, but errors?
Agatha Macbeth pulls Brucie's antlers
Bruce Mowbray: Self-forgiveness is indeed the hardest part.
Eliza Madrigal: apologies...something just arrived at the door, brb

Bruce Mowbray: Self-forgiveness requires some powerful affirmations -- or insights -- or epiphanies.
Agatha Macbeth: A dionsaur?
Bleu Oleander: we forgive you :)
Negafook Resident: singing telegram perhaps, if a dion-saur
Agatha Macbeth: Must be Fedex again
Bruce Mowbray: Everyone else's forgiveness doesn't seem to do the trick....

Agatha Macbeth: Oh hello again San
Bruce Mowbray: wb, dear San-ji!
Negafook Resident: welcome back, san
Agatha Macbeth: In and out and in and out...
Santoshima Resident: spoiler alert ... you'll know me by my new avi's keyboard being locked up when i SL
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Negafook Resident: heheheh
Santoshima Resident: and requiring reboot to get it going again
Eliza Madrigal: aw :)
Bleu Oleander: ha!
Bruce Mowbray: My kingdom for a reliable server and video card!
Agatha Macbeth: Try a wireless one

Eliza Madrigal: Apologies have a lot of cultural connotations... how easily someone may be able to say I'm sorry, or even what I'm sorry means
Agatha Macbeth: Depends muchly on what they've done I guess
Bruce Mowbray listens intently for more about cjultural apologies.
Eliza Madrigal: or perceive a reason to apologize
Negafook Resident: some people see it as a sign of weakness, I think
Eliza Madrigal: agreed
Eliza Madrigal: and some women (myself less than I used to) say I'm sorry from habit a lot
Agatha Macbeth: The Eve syndrome?
Santoshima Resident: a socialized diminishing
Santoshima Resident: perhaps
Bruce Mowbray: or, perhaps, a trait of co-dependency.... bowing and cowtowing.
Eliza Madrigal: that's the phrase, yes
Bruce Mowbray: The important thing is that we do not sabotage ourselves.

Eliza Madrigal: first time hearing "Eve syndrome" too, but I guess it fits
Agatha Macbeth: 'It's all HER fault' :p
Eliza Madrigal: well, and women are often the smoother-overs
Agatha Macbeth: That damn apple
Eliza Madrigal: peace keepers
Agatha Macbeth: Yes helps
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Eve, don't let that damn snake put the blame on you!
Agatha Macbeth: 'Trust in me, just in me'
Eliza Madrigal: from Eve to Lilith if not careful, hah
Agatha Macbeth: Same difference
Santoshima Resident: new avis

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Just look at how the Judeo-Christian paradigm is a "construction" -- but the Garden of Eden myth should have been a Hindu drama. . . .
Bruce Mowbray: MICK! (in Mumbai India!)
Agatha Macbeth: Micko :)
Bruce Mowbray: 
Bruce Mowbray: 
Santoshima Resident: hello Mick
Bleu Oleander: hiya Mick
Mickorod Renard: hiya
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Mick... glad you found your way
Agatha Macbeth: Or namaste rather

Negafook Resident: hello mick, you seem to be popular today
Bruce Mowbray: Bless that new laptop!
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Eliza Madrigal: we've been talking about making new avies, seeing with new eyes.... with a few *(several) of the usual diversions :)
Agatha Macbeth: He's popular every day
Mickorod Renard: hey, did u get the haiku?
Bruce Mowbray: Yes!
Eliza Madrigal: haiku?
Santoshima Resident: who?
Negafook Resident: does everyone get such a welcome? :)
Bruce Mowbray: Would you like me to share it now?
Santoshima Resident: just mick
Mickorod Renard: yes please
Agatha Macbeth: Mick does
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bruce Mowbray: kk, let me find it.
Santoshima Resident: (especially if conversation is lagging ...)

Mickorod Renard: hi Megafook..are you new?
Santoshima Resident: N
Mickorod Renard: oops
Bruce Mowbray: A Haiku from Mick in Mumbai stench and more burning- impermanence in motion le joie de vivre
Negafook Resident: slightly used :)
Agatha Macbeth: New-ish I'd say :p
Mickorod Renard: cool
Santoshima Resident: great t-shirt
Negafook Resident: mine? thanks. Free too.
Santoshima Resident: best
Bruce Mowbray: H8?

Mickorod Renard: I have made a new avi
Negafook Resident: say it :)
Agatha Macbeth: I read it as 'no shit' at first...
Bruce Mowbray: Oh! HATE! of course.
Negafook Resident grins
Bleu Oleander: :)
Mickorod Renard: although its secret of course
Agatha Macbeth: What is?
Santoshima Resident: oh come on mick ... a little preview?
Mickorod Renard: my new avi
Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Micko.
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Agatha Macbeth: Mick2
Mickorod Renard: I will come in with it soon
Santoshima Resident: 15th
Agatha Macbeth: Just turn up as Morg :p
Eliza Madrigal hears haiku as Mick facing discomfort, becoming reflective, in Mubai...?
Bruce Mowbray notices that Mick is no longer wearing his cross. (Hope that is not a point of sensitivity.)
Mickorod Renard: so..sorry about the wierd haiku,,but today I think its day of the dead here
Agatha Macbeth: He's not feeling cross today

Eliza Madrigal: Nov 15 is the main day, however everyone has to tailor their experience

Bruce Mowbray: I cannot imagine going to India, actually.
Bruce Mowbray: November 15th it is, then! Thanks, eliza.
Mickorod Renard: yea,,they wheel bodies in and burn them just opposite
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Bruce Mowbray: Is this a low-priced hotel you're in, or what?
Agatha Macbeth: Comes with own incinerator
Mickorod Renard: I am well impressed with how much they charge here
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Eliza Madrigal: oO
Agatha Macbeth: 'Ten rupee mate'
Mickorod Renard: he he
Bruce Mowbray: I think I'd be looking for a pup tent in the suburbs.
Santoshima Resident: ... back to kitchen reno ... good to see you all ~ enjoy the day ~
Eliza Madrigal: pitch tent in the charnel ground
Mickorod Renard: if I float on my back in the pool I get my mouth filled with ashes

Negafook Resident: bye san
Bruce Mowbray: bye for now, San.
Bleu Oleander: bye San
Eliza Madrigal: bye San
Mickorod Renard: bye san
Agatha Macbeth: Hurry up and finish it San
Bruce Mowbray: OMG.
Agatha Macbeth: Busy lady

Bruce Mowbray ponders mouth full of ashes.
Bruce Mowbray: a metaphor?
Agatha Macbeth: Well-done curry perhaps
Mickorod Renard: so,that was why the haiku is so poinient
Bruce Mowbray: yes, I will post it again....
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for unpacking/giving background
Eliza Madrigal: life and death "in your face"
Mickorod Renard: what was subject for today?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, avies and names
Bruce Mowbray:

stench and more burning
- impermanence in motion
le joie de vivre

Bleu Oleander: new avi life at PaB :)
Bruce Mowbray: We were taling about "dropping" our old avis and tking on new ones, Mick.
Bruce Mowbray: talking*
Mickorod Renard: hey yeah..impermanence of avis
Bruce Mowbray: yeppers.
Agatha Macbeth sniffs Liz's flowers
Eliza Madrigal: what do we drop/ how do we drop/everything/not much/what's in a name
Mickorod Renard: actually its good fun thinking about 'I' and avi's
Bruce Mowbray: Lilac Time.
Eliza Madrigal: one starts to see what is 'optional' vs coupled loosely, uncoupled/unimportant to the exploration
Eliza Madrigal: agree Bruce

Agatha Macbeth: No self
Agatha Macbeth: (Don't say 'we')
Bleu Oleander: names collect narratives over time
Eliza Madrigal: each no self is entirely unique
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: yes, do we only bring in the 'I'?
Agatha Macbeth: I I sir
Bleu Oleander: ponders "unique no self"

Mickorod Renard: real play as being

Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure none of us would like to lose sight of the riches we've found here
Eliza Madrigal: yet what might be covering over those?
Bruce Mowbray ponders whether our new avis will have memories about our old avfis.
Bleu Oleander: will pass on the riches to new avi
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Mickorod Renard: I couldnt bear to be without our avi characters
Eliza Madrigal: will others miss Eliza?
Bruce Mowbray: me neither, Mick.
Mickorod Renard: but as an experiment its fun
Eliza Madrigal: will I?
Agatha Macbeth: Not if you're here :)
Bruce Mowbray: Couldn't you bring in BOTH avis, though, as I have been doing with my new avi recently?
Eliza Madrigal: for me it wouldn't work well
Bruce Mowbray: hmmmm.
Eliza Madrigal: I really want to see new, if able to
Bleu Oleander: will be a challenge to bring Eliza's riches to the group as a new avi at first ... until we figure out that it YOU :)
Bleu Oleander: no hiding your heart :)
Agatha Macbeth: Just look for the sheepdog hair...

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: open question what will change if anything
Bleu Oleander: I think once we know its you only minor things may change if at all
Eliza Madrigal: I immediately smile when seeing the names of my friends :) takes a while to become familiar
Eliza Madrigal: "Oh, its YOU!"

Mickorod Renard: maybe it will change our individual view on what it would mean to drop
Bruce Mowbray: Well, we've built this edifice (and our individual edifices) over seven years. . . (or more) so, there's a lot of momentum going on ....

Bleu Oleander: of course your new avi could bring out another facet of you perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Mickorod Renard: thats a nice point Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: have to allow one another
Bleu Oleander: I've noticed that with alts
Bruce Mowbray: I still recommend two viewers... It is a rather eye-opening experience.
Eliza Madrigal: diamond facets
Bleu Oleander: ha! could be good or bad thing
Bruce Mowbray: One viewer for each avi.
Eliza Madrigal grins


Mickorod Renard: I have almost managed to finish a book written by the D Lama and I cant get my head around some,,and I am sure this new avi thing is for guidance
Bruce Mowbray: also grins.
Eliza Madrigal: what is the challenge Mick?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Agatha Macbeth wonders if the DL ever tried a new av
Mickorod Renard: all this stuff about existing and so forth
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray listens even more intently.
Eliza Madrigal giggling.... existing and so forth... not sure what to respond to that

Eliza Madrigal: sigh.... I hope you guys stay and chat a while, but today i have to go... am taking a class at night (starts at 6 [ was after 5 my time]) and haven't done homework yet nor pointed my son in the direction of making his dinner for tonight
Agatha Macbeth: Non stop eh?
Eliza Madrigal: wish I could stay... nice gathering :)
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, everyone.
Mickorod Renard: lost my mouse control
Bruce Mowbray: You will do well there, Eliza.
Negafook Resident: bye bruce, and bye elizy
Bleu Oleander: ntsy Eliza, soon to be someone else
Negafook Resident: eliza
Eliza Madrigal: aw...don't have to leave.. I'd enjoy reading you when I posted
Negafook Resident: I hope it works out well
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to meet you Negafook!
Agatha Macbeth: I'm off to PP to listen to Sandia
Negafook Resident: likewise
Mickorod Renard: inherant existance and stuff
Bruce Mowbray: Good luck with your respirtion in Mumbai, Mick!
Agatha Macbeth: Rather
Eliza Madrigal: Dandia?
Agatha Macbeth: Beaumont
Bleu Oleander: bye for now... have fun
Agatha Macbeth: Pianist
Mickorod Renard: bye anyone leaving
Agatha Macbeth: TC ♥
Eliza Madrigal: ooo nice
Negafook Resident: live music?
Eliza Madrigal: enjoy <3

Bruce Mowbray: I think I'd be wearing a gas mask, if I could find one.
Bleu Oleander: . ♥ . ♥ . ♥ . ♥ . ♥ .
Mickorod Renard: I should go back to sleep
Eliza Madrigal: sweet dreams Mick
Negafook Resident: it sounds stressful, mick
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for haiku and check in
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh, go on Mick
Mickorod Renard: it is,,secretly
Mickorod Renard: mp x to all
Agatha Macbeth: Don't forget to dream for us
Mickorod Renard: kk

Negafook Resident: this is a really clique-y place
Negafook Resident: all shared knowledge and inside jokes, like being the only person at a company party who doesn't work at that company
Negafook Resident: I'm trying just to be calm and let it flow past, and pick up what comes my way :)
Negafook Resident: anyway
Negafook Resident: it seems a friendly place, so I'll come back and see what I can pick up next time
Negafook Resident: goodbye, dear recorder.