2015.09.29 13:00 - Every Force Evolves a Form

The Guardian for this meeting was Darren Islar...

--BELL--
Darren Islar: hey Riddle
Riddle Sideways: hey
Riddle Sideways: just checking that the email was correct :))
Darren Islar: give me a riddle
Darren Islar: hey Bruce
Riddle Sideways: hey bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Riddle and Darren.
Darren Islar: imagine a sun, some fruit and a nice cool drink, water in front of us .....
Riddle Sideways: remember laying this way for an hour watching TV when young
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Darren Islar: hehe
Darren Islar: different associations
Bruce Mowbray: (or listening to the radio before we had a TV.)
Riddle Sideways: laid on tummy the other day for only a few minutes and was stiff
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.
Darren Islar: yeah I know ....

Bruce Mowbray: I'm guess that this is an interim pavilion -- until the final tally of votes (?)
Darren Islar: yes it is
Riddle Sideways: think so
Bruce Mowbray: I don't think I've seen this one before.
Darren Islar: not sure I'm going to vote
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Riddle Sideways: why
Bruce Mowbray: I've already voted, actually.
Darren Islar: it seems to have been here, though I think Bleu has made a few little changes as the cushions and the lotus
Darren Islar: I don't know, I'm one of the makers, maybe I just want to stay out of it
Riddle Sideways: that is ok ,but
Riddle Sideways: you made more than one (I think)
Darren Islar: yes
Riddle Sideways: and you would have to vote against one of your selves
Bruce Mowbray: abstinence is sometimes the better way - but I would encourage Darren to vote.
Darren Islar: no, we have decided we may vote on one of ourselves
Riddle Sideways: had a committee meeting? good
Darren Islar: well, it makes sense, I'm one of the guardians and need to live with whatever is chosen

Bruce Mowbray: If there is no other theme for this session, may I run something by you two and get your take on it?
Bleu Oleander: hiya
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Bleu.
Riddle Sideways: hi bleu
Darren Islar: so, are we watching television or are we at the riviera and what does that with whatever topic we are talking about?
Darren Islar: hey Bleu
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha.
Darren Islar: oh, just popped in a theme, but am very happy with your theme Bruce, go ahead
Riddle Sideways: tummy lay is not a condusive mediatation pose

Bruce Mowbray: I've been pondering a quote from the woman who founded the Skaher Society in the mid-1700's.
Bruce Mowbray: Shakers.
Bruce Mowbray: and it seems to me that it might have something to suggest about the forms of our pavilions - as well as any forms, in art, design, or elsewhere.
Bruce Mowbray: the speaker is Mother Ann Lee,
Darren Islar: don't make us start again Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: and her quote is "Every force evolves a form."
Bruce Mowbray: start again?
Darren Islar: with making pavilions :)
Bleu Oleander: so form follows force?

Qt Core: Hi all
Bleu Oleander: hi Qt
Darren Islar: hey QT
Riddle Sideways: hi QT

Darren Islar: it makes sense
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.google.com/search?q=Shak...w=1477&bih=744
Darren Islar: the theme of today QT: [13:13] Bruce (bruce.mowbray): and her quote is "Every force evolves a form."

--BELL--

Riddle Sideways: ty, another tab open
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Fc
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Fc.
Darren Islar: hi seeker
Qt Core: Hi Fc
Riddle Sideways: hi little panda seeker

Qt Core: first image in my mind trees hugely deformed by constant wind
Darren Islar: a) it means something is needed before a form arises, b) this something has a direction (since it's a force)
FcSeeker Resident: Hello all *
Riddle Sideways: does anybody have a tinies pillow?
Bruce Mowbray: To me it feels more like Heraclitus or Darwin -- but the more I think about it, it seems to apply to just about every form I can think of... from blades of grass to governments and religions.
Darren Islar: I was just wondering about a pillow yes
Bruce Mowbray: I have a pillow for Fc, yes. Shall I bring it in?
Bleu Oleander: sure
Darren Islar: yes
Bleu Oleander: I do too if you can't find yours
Darren Islar: to the pillow
Bruce Mowbray: Here it is, Fc.
Bruce Mowbray: You'll need to sit on it for me to adgust it properly, though.

Darren Islar: we will need to define form, is it something we can touch or is it something we can become aware of, such as a thought?
Bruce Mowbray: It could be either.
FcSeeker Resident: thank U for the seat :)
Bruce Mowbray: It could be tangible, like a blade or grass or a tree, or it could be intangible, like the form that an ideal or goal might take.

Darren Islar: hey Kori
Bleu Oleander: hi Kori
Korel Laloix: Heya
Bruce Mowbray: yw, as always, Fc.
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Kori.
FcSeeker Resident: Heya Korel :)

Bruce Mowbray: With regard to Mother Ann Lee, from whom the line is quoted, it pertained to the perfection of things --- making them fit to be used by angels, she said.
Darren Islar: we are talking about how forms come into existence, whether it is tangible or something you can be aware of
Qt Core: but yes, mostly any process is an action of some force changing a pre-existing condition, where in space there is no force (gravity, mostly) there is just gas and dust, where there is gravity stars and planets

Bruce Mowbray: Condier two items: the Shaker broom, and the Shaker chair.
Qt Core: Hi Korel
Bruce Mowbray: The forms of both, Ann Lee said, should be fit for angels to sweep with or to sit on.
Riddle Sideways: hi Korel
Bruce Mowbray: so, the "force" evolves the form -- or so she said.
Bleu Oleander: brb

Darren Islar: well besides seats and brooms for angels, I think you indeed can probably apply it to any form
Bruce Mowbray: A work of art is a form that articulates forces, making them visible.
Bruce Mowbray: and intelligible.
Darren Islar: yes
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I agree, it can be applied to any form.
Darren Islar: a lotus can only exists by forces in nature
Bruce Mowbray: good example, Darren.
Darren Islar: what is interesting to me is the word 'force''
Darren Islar: apply that to a thought
Bruce Mowbray listens carefully.
Darren Islar: a thought can only come into existence through a force
Bruce Mowbray: [thoughts also "evolve," don't they?)
Darren Islar: they do, but a thought is a force, an idea, which can be shown in art or making a chair
Darren Islar: but the thought itself can only come into existence through a force
Darren Islar: or ...
Darren Islar: it was already there

Bruce Mowbray: from the Wikipedia, about Ann Lee:
Bruce Mowbray: Ann Lee joined the Shakers by 1758 and then became the leader of the small community.[9][10] "Mother Ann", as her followers later called her, claimed numerous revelations regarding the fall of Adam and Eve and its relationship to sexual intercourse. A powerful preacher, she called her followers to confess their sins, give up all their worldly goods, and take up the cross of celibacy and forsake marriage, as part of the renunciation of all "lustful gratifications".[11]
Bruce Mowbray: The Shakers died out because they did not believe in procreation.
Bruce Mowbray: (apparently sex was a "form" for which they had to "force")
Bruce Mowbray: no force, not "to force" -- sry.
Darren Islar: or denied that force
Bruce Mowbray: yes, or repressed it.
Bruce Mowbray: or maybe overwhelmed it with other forces.
Bruce Mowbray: and other forms.
Bruce Mowbray: But it is fascinating to look around and see natural forms....
Darren Islar: a good way to try to redirect a force is to do the opposite of what you normally do
Bruce Mowbray: and consider the forces that evolved them.

--BELL--

Darren Islar: which means that instead of giving in to a 'need' or 'urge', you don't ... when you do that purely with force, it doesn't work, when you do it with awareness, something else can start to come into existence
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm, so awareness itself is a force -- no?
Darren Islar: awareness itself maybe not, but to be aware you need concentration, focus and sometimes ... not giving in
Bleu Oleander: sorry, need to go ... please excuse me .. nice to see you all
Qt Core: bye Bleu
Darren Islar: bye Bleu
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Bleu.
FcSeeker Resident: I think so....as soooo much happenes 'around' me without me to be aware; just got feedback of such....but much better I've been able to help when I've been aware what's going on...
FcSeeker Resident: bye Bleu
Bruce Mowbray: Well, both force and form occur within a frame (or context), so perhaps awareness is a sort of context.
Bruce Mowbray: or a quality of context.
FcSeeker Resident: somebody here interested in this pic's story ???
Bruce Mowbray: Please tell us about it, Fc.

Darren Islar: so it makes sense to give up wordly goods and sex, but only when you understand the reason for it, and not only understanding it with your head ... then it can work as a way to start changing your ways
Riddle Sideways: yes
Korel Laloix: Darren I would say you need the oposite to be aware of a force... you have to relax and see where it blows you, not concentrate on it. But maybe different words.
FcSeeker Resident: this photo is taken by Hunbatz Men....do you know who he is ?
Darren Islar: relaxation is part of becoming aware, I agree, without relaxation there is no field, no playground

Darren Islar: sorry FC go ahead
Korel Laloix: I know the name for some reasons.
FcSeeker Resident: o.k.; he is Mayan Ibiza := nowadays 'chief'
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, Mayan -- in Mexico.
FcSeeker Resident: he sent this photo long time ago 'around the world'
Bruce Mowbray: That's a powerful "FORM," Fc.
FcSeeker Resident: because he with his local specialists couldn't 'open' the 'code' there is within the purple line
Bruce Mowbray ponders what force(s) may have evolved it.
Riddle Sideways: nice tying to the theme, bruce
FcSeeker Resident: they asked from psycics to give their 'view'¨
FcSeeker Resident: I 'got' only that it's needed to understand to have 3 layers....
FcSeeker Resident: after about the year, those wise people had collected information and put their heads together and they got a message from this awareness
Bruce Mowbray listens.
FcSeeker Resident: it told how it had turned to be aware of it's self, and how it admired God's splended work for sooooooo special creation
FcSeeker Resident: .....there was much text of worlds/life's beauty.....sadly it was not written down what this awareness admired so much
Bruce Mowbray: There seems to be some "force" in Nature that drives organisms to evolve toward increasing self-awareness.
FcSeeker Resident: with such creation it ment human being
Bruce Mowbray: nods, yes... and humans are usually thought of as being the "most evolved" of species, although I often doubt that.
FcSeeker Resident: ***<3<3<3***
Bruce Mowbray: ♥♥♥
Darren Islar: (a course I'm following suggest that the feel for developing religion is part of our genes)

Darren Islar: what are the 3 layers?

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray listens carefully for more about the "3 layers"
FcSeeker Resident: ....just that it's not only one line which it seems to be....
Darren Islar: ah ok
FcSeeker Resident: ...as it is a being....
Darren Islar: refering to.....
Bruce Mowbray: One of the major challenges with artificial intelligence and natural language is that most human language has multiple "layers" of meaning and connotation.
Darren Islar: Buddha, dharma Sangha .... God, Maria and the Holy Spirit?
Bruce Mowbray: Love, Power, Freedom?
Bruce Mowbray: Id, Ego, Superego?
FcSeeker Resident: ,,,,spirit, body and mind....
Bruce Mowbray: Parent, Adult, Child?
Darren Islar: dharmakaya, sambogakaya and ... shoot :)
Bruce Mowbray: Fight, Flight, Freeze?

Darren Islar: layers suggest they are not standing next to each other but on top of each other?
Bruce Mowbray: Approach, Withdraw, Overcome?
Darren Islar: nirmanakaya
Bruce Mowbray: Excellent question, Darren.
Bruce Mowbray: Union, Separation, Domination?
Riddle Sideways: true, false, maybe? :)

Bruce Mowbray: I find it fascinating that with so many bi-lateral forms in the human experience, there are so many triads, as well.
FcSeeker Resident: ...ah yes....tough for me to try to use words how I feel this existence,,,,but yes; those Bruce's words 'fit with my heart'....
Darren Islar: going back to force .. it sees to me that one of all those contain two forces or none, the other two are opposites
Darren Islar: *seems
Bruce Mowbray: ♥ ♥ ♥
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm.
Bruce Mowbray: the molecular forms of elements are all examples of "forms" that have evolved out of forces.

Korel Laloix: Nature also has different time cycles, and those rhythms nudge us. Sometimes they add positive, sometimes negative, others the flatten out. So that is another form of layering, without having to define the separation. If that makes any sense.
FcSeeker Resident: ...ah yes, this existence was not to be seen by Hunbatz, but it appeared to 2 of his taken photos....seems I dont have the other here...
Bruce Mowbray: Excewllent point, Kori. Reminds me a lot of Taoism's "the watercourse way."
Korel Laloix: No idea about that .. will look it up though.
Bruce Mowbray: the form of the stream is time and the flowing....
Bruce Mowbray: I doubt that Nature knows "separation," actually...
Riddle Sideways: and string theory has all those vibrations happening in different time signitures
Darren Islar: without having to define the separation? you like to elaborate on that Kori?
Bruce Mowbray: only the appearances of it.

Qt Core: I need to go, bye all.
Bruce Mowbray nods to Riddle.
Darren Islar: bye QT
Riddle Sideways: by QT
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Qt.
Darren Islar: which gives a lot of possible variations Riddle
FcSeeker Resident: bye Qt
Bruce Mowbray: I should also be going. I need to get cleaned up before going into town for dinner.
Bruce Mowbray: May you all be well and happy.
Bruce Mowbray: May your forms be harmonious with your forces!
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Darren Islar: okay Bruce, bye for now
Riddle Sideways: need to go too
Darren Islar: bye riddle
Riddle Sideways: buy buy All
Darren Islar: need to go in a minute as well
FcSeeker Resident: bye all
Darren Islar: bye seeker

--BELL--

FcSeeker Resident: hearts
Korel Laloix: ciao
Korel Laloix: Take care.
Darren Islar: bye Kori
Korel Laloix: do na da go hv i