2015.12.15 13:00 -- AI, Robotics, and Getting to Know Bunbun

 

The guardian responsible for this session was Bruce Mowbray (with a little help from Elan).

 

[13:06] Bruce: Welcome, Qt!

[13:06] Qt Core: Hi Bruce

[13:06] Bruce: Good to see you.

[13:06] Qt Core: :-)

[13:07] Bruce: Have I already given you a shoulder Santa?  Or, if not, maybe you'd prefer I not give one to you.

[13:07] Bruce: Welcome, Riddle!

[13:07] Riddle Sideways: hi All

[13:08] Qt Core: no, you haven't but i don't need one

[13:08] Bruce: kk, I will ask Riddle.

[13:08] Qt Core: Hi Riddle

[13:08] Riddle Sideways: hi

[13:08] Riddle Sideways: ask what?

[13:08] Bruce: Have I already given you a shoulder Santa?  Or, if not, maybe you'd prefer I not give one to you.

[13:08] Bruce: (that was to Riddle).

[13:09] Riddle Sideways: thanks, but probably would not wear

[13:09] Bruce: kk, np.

[13:09] Riddle Sideways: too much weight on shoulders already

[13:09] Bruce: Yes....

[13:10] Bruce: It's a difficult time of year, no?

[13:10] Riddle Sideways: and don't do the Christmas thang much

[13:10] Bruce: Christmas makes me envious of animals.

[13:10] Bruce: I enjoy doing the Christmas thang much more than my typist does.

[13:10] Bruce: In fact, my typist simply endures the holiday and wants time to speed up....

[13:10] Riddle Sideways: ah, that might be true

[13:11] Riddle Sideways: just made it through Chanukah

[13:11] Riddle Sideways: and did not burn the house down

[13:11] Bruce: A few years back, my typist actually said that he would sacrifice the entire month of December in order to avoid having to "witness" the Christmas thang.

[13:11] Bruce: Happy Chanukah!

[13:11] Bruce: And congratulations for not burning down the house!

[13:12] Riddle Sideways: ty

[13:12] Qt Core: but nowadays the Christmas madness starts in November if not even October

[13:12] Bruce: Right... So my typist should have offered to sacrifice TWO or more months, just to avoid the holiday.  Heh heh.

[13:12] Riddle Sideways: well, it does relieve us from political madness (a bit)

[13:12] Bruce: It does?

[13:12] Qt Core: especially in places where there is no thanksgiving blocking its spread

[13:13] Bruce: I'm looking forward to that, since tonight will be another shouting match - aka, Republican presidential debate.

[13:13] Riddle Sideways: well no, was just trying that sentence

[13:13] Bruce: :)

[13:13] Bruce: I'm guessing my typist will pull out a good movie tonight rather than watching either the Christmas madness or the political madness on TV.

[13:13] Riddle Sideways: may I change the subject?

[13:13] Bruce: Please do!

[13:14] Bruce listens.

[13:14] Riddle Sideways: finally watched Ex Machina that you suggested

[13:14] Bruce: Oh great!

[13:14] Bruce: What did you think of it?

[13:14] Riddle Sideways: in fact watched it twice last night

[13:14] Bruce: Great great, then!

[13:14] Bruce: :)

[13:14] Riddle Sideways: it is not on Netflix, but is on Amazon

[13:15] Bruce: Raises a few questions, no?

[13:15] Riddle Sideways: yes, good questions raised

[13:15] Bruce: (I have my own copy.)

[13:15] Qt Core: I watched it this summer in an open air theatre

[13:15] Riddle Sideways: new twist on use of Big Data

[13:16] Bruce: The only part of the movie that I thought was weak was the part where the computer whiz kid (who was invited to the outback mansion) needed to have the Turing Test explained .... But, of course, that was for the audience's benefit.

 

[13:16] PaB Bell

 

[13:17] Riddle Sideways: yes, movies/books seem to need a grandmother type to explain the academics to

[13:18] Riddle Sideways: hi Elan.

[13:18] Qt Core: one would wonder how all that computing power could reside in that body

[13:18] Elan: Hi, folks!

[13:18] Qt Core: Hi Elan

[13:18] Riddle Sideways: they called it wetware

[13:18] Bruce: Riddle's mentioning EX MACHINA woke up Elan, it seems.

[13:19] Qt Core: but then it s SF ;-)

[13:19] Riddle Sideways: thought so, Elan

 

[Elan falls into the fountain….]

 

[13:19] Elan: Oooops.  A bit more "wet" than "wear" with that one.

[13:19] Riddle Sideways: cyberpunk authors, (Stephenson, et.al) did not use those devices

[13:20] Bruce: I felt that the movie handled "wet wear" pretty well...

[13:20] Bruce: It more nearly approximated the human brain, it seemed to me.

[13:21] Riddle Sideways: had the (almost) fake company collect and analyze the big data

[13:21] Elan nods.

[13:21] Riddle Sideways: then probably only have the condensed findings downloaded

[13:22] Bruce: Wouldn't an AI as sophisticated as "Ava" HAVE to be connected to the Web, though?

[13:22] Bruce: I mean, have to use the Web as its database.... one way or another…

[13:22] Qt Core: one copy to bootstrap itself probably then it could learn at our pace

[13:22] Riddle Sideways: partially

[13:23] Bruce ponders watching EX MACHINA again tonight.... since he hasn't seen it for several months.

[13:23] Qt Core: so reading single webpages/book/newspapers

[13:23] Riddle Sideways: the company computer read ALL webpages and phones and faces

[13:23] Elan nods....

[13:24] Riddle Sideways: and ground down the big data

[13:24] Riddle Sideways: Ava only needed some findings

[13:24] Elan: So, the "company" acted as an intermediary....

[13:24] Riddle Sideways: probably

[13:24] Bruce: useful to divide up the labor, don't you think?

[13:24] Riddle Sideways: yes

[13:25] Bruce: also enables multi-levelar approach... for symbol use, etc.

[13:25] Bruce: One symbol could represent multiple files of data, as it were.

[13:25] Riddle Sideways: you personally might not have to analyze millions of liars to figure out facial expressions

[13:25] Elan: ... or what's a language for....?

[13:25] Riddle Sideways: just get a clue about eyebrows

[13:25] Elan nods.

[13:26] Elan: That's what Ava did....

[13:26] Elan: She also interpreted the young man's stare as "love."

[13:26] Elan: or, at least [sexual?] attraction....

[13:26] Elan tries not to stare at Brucie.

[13:26] Riddle Sideways: that has been in the popular press lately too

[13:26] Bruce: Really?

[13:27] Riddle Sideways: some odd item last week or so

[13:27] Riddle Sideways: stare into somebody's eyes deeply for 3 minutes and fall in love

[13:27] Bruce: Hmmm. Well, I guess staring and involuntary dilation of the pupils signals something....

[13:27] Riddle Sideways: then again the radio might have heard it wrong

[13:28] Riddle Sideways: that happens during cooking and listening

[13:28] Elan: Perhaps that might explain some religious symbolism, too... I mean to stare at statues, icons, and the like....

[13:28] Qt Core: This one? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6718716.html

[13:29] Riddle Sideways: thanks,

 [13:29] Riddle Sideways: you are a fast link finder

[13:29] Bruce finds it difficult to stare at the weird-looking dude with curly moustache and earrings...

[13:30] Riddle Sideways: my moustache is NOT curly

[13:30] Bruce: Ha ha.  On Qt's link, I meant.

[13:31] Riddle Sideways: QT have you seen the movie?

[13:31] Qt Core: yes a few months ago

[13:31] Elan: Psychologists long ago explained how important reciprocal staring is in the mother-infant relationship, though...

 [13:31] Bruce: But only if the kid didn't have a curly moustache, Elan.

[13:31] Elan po9nders Brucie's statement.

[13:32] Riddle Sideways: ok, so maybe a Spoiler alert is only needed on the posting

[13:32] Riddle Sideways: po9nder it as a joke

[13:32] Bruce: :)

[13:32] Elan makes note to upgrade humor chips.

[13:33] Riddle Sideways: so, the part about what happens to the earlier versions [of Ava]

[13:33] Riddle Sideways: got a little weird

[13:33] Bruce: My favorite robot-AI movies, so far, are HER, EXMACHINA, and BICENTENNIAL MAN.

[13:33] Riddle Sideways: all good ones

[13:33] Bruce: with LUCY coming in a close fourth, MAYBE.

[13:33] Qt Core: still have to see HER

[13:34] Bruce: HER is excellent... and quite plausible, I felt.

[13:34] Riddle Sideways: oh what is that cute one...

[13:34] Bruce: The cute one?

[13:34] Bruce: You mean Samantha? the OS?  (in the movie HER.)

[13:34] Riddle Sideways: ROBOT AND FRANK

[13:34] Bruce: Oh yes, I enjoyed that one too!

[13:35] Elan: Frank was a sociopath, Bruce!

[13:35] Bruce: I know.

[13:35] Bruce: Some of my best friends are too.

[13:35] Riddle Sideways: Frank could not remember his wife

[13:35] Bruce: right....

[13:36] Bruce: but he could remember how to pull off thefts, etc.

[13:36] Riddle Sideways: funny those brains

[13:36] Elan: Bad Robot!

[13:36] Riddle Sideways: thanks, need to look that up

[13:37] Bruce: "Bad Robot" is also the name of an American TV production company, you know.

[13:37] Riddle Sideways: that's what needed looking up

[13:37] Bruce: :)

[13:38] Riddle Sideways: the keeping of old versions is like Bruce needing to keep Visual Basic around :)

[13:38] Bruce: I love VB-6, though.  SUCH a cool program.... although almost 20 years old, now.

[13:38] Qt Core: just reminded about a an old movie about AI, maybe it was this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087197/

[13:38] Riddle Sideways: those old swarm and boids progams

[13:39] Bruce: Now, that's one I've not seen yet.

[13:39] Bruce: I couldn't program the swarms in VB, though.... I had to go to Java for that.

[13:40] Elan: Swarm "intelligence" is getting popular, isn't it?

[13:40] Riddle Sideways: boids went through lots of rewrites

[13:40] Bruce nods....

[13:41] Riddle Sideways: genetic algorithms are getting popular again

[13:41] Bruce: I remember the 'swarm' spiders in the movie MINORITY REPORT...

[13:41] Bruce: swarming all over Tom Cruise's character....

[13:41] Bruce: hundreds of them looking all over his house, actually, and into his eyes.

[13:42] Bruce: I think that some form of genetic algorithm is also used in neural nets, or not.... (?)

[13:42] Riddle Sideways: that CGI movie effects company (Australian?) that makes swarms of creatures for movies

[13:43] Bruce: Do you know if fractals are used in making swarms .... for movies, I mean?

[13:43] Qt Core: yes genetic algorithms are good for big problems with many parameters where you don't know how to tweak them but know what you want

[13:43] Riddle Sideways: not sure, think not

[13:43] Elan ponders scaling...

[13:44] Bruce: So, are you saying, Qt, that swarming is a type of "brute force" in algorithmic explorations?

[13:44] Riddle Sideways: fitness routines and morph/random gene oddities

[13:45] Riddle Sideways: brb

[13:45] Qt Core: yes, each unit can do a simple task and their interaction create a complex "thing"

[13:45] Bruce: I remember when I first learned about genetic algorithms....  and I thought that they had the potential to discover virtually anything... given enough parameters and time.

[13:45] Qt Core: and sometimes the interaction is not even planned or foreseen in its entire scope

[13:45] Bruce: I suspect they will also play an important role in robotics... and AI in general.

[13:46] Bruce: Yes, I agree, Qt.

[13:47] Elan ponders "brb" -- Suspects it's a symbol for "Biology Requires Breaks."

[13:47] Bruce: Yikes!

[13:47] Elan: Yikes!

[13:48] Bruce: I'm rereading GODEL ESCHER BACH as I take an on-line (YouTube) course by that same name from MIT.  (Mass. Instit. of Technology)

[13:49] Bruce: The actual course was given two years ago... and these are videos of it.

[13:49] Bruce: Free on YouTube.

[13:49] Bruce: Really fascinating stuff.

[13:50] Bruce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWZ2Bz0tS-s

[13:51] Bruce: I also have a book inscribed and autographed (to my typist) by Douglas Hofstadter...

[13:51] Bruce: (his METAMAGICAL THEMAS.)

[13:51] Bruce: a collection of essays he had published in Scientific American magazine.

[13:52] Elan: Hofstadter is one of my human heroes.

[13:52] Bruce: Mine too, Elan.

[13:53] Bruce: Maybe I'll watch the sixth lecture tonight, instead of re-watching EX MACHINA or the Republican debate.

[13:53] Elan nods, good idea.

[13:53] Riddle Sideways: back

[13:53] Riddle Sideways: so many entertainment choices

[13:53] Elan: wb, Riddle.

[13:54] Bruce: Elan suggests that "brb" is a symbol for "Biology Requires Breaks."

[13:54] Riddle Sideways: was playing with the rabbit Bunbun on yonder plot

[13:54] Bruce: Ahhh!

[13:54] Elan makes note to play with Bunbun.

[13:55] Riddle Sideways: the BRB was for the accountant needing receipt translations

[13:55] Bruce: ahhhh!

[13:55] Riddle Sideways: Bunbun has some AI smarts

[13:55] Riddle Sideways: can be trained a routine

[13:55] Bruce: I'd like to check out Bunbun myself. Can you lead Elan and me to her?

[13:55] Riddle Sideways: and will use it more and more if rewarded

[13:56] Elan: Wow.

[13:56] Bruce: Is she nearby, then?

[13:56] Riddle Sideways: sure, just down the stairs

[13:56] Bruce: kk, I will follow....

[13:56] Elan: me too.

[13:56] Riddle Sideways: 4 more minutes

[13:56] Elan: kk.

[13:57] Bruce: Hold yer horses, robot!

[13:57] Riddle Sideways: for completeness:  http://www.virtualkennelclub.com/smart-pets

[13:58] Bruce: Wow!  So these "pets" have AI programs for learning built into them?

[13:59] Riddle Sideways: yes, however had forgotten to tell Aph

[13:59] Riddle Sideways: before the paper was done

[13:59] Bruce: Hmmm.

[13:59] Bruce: I can give her a heads-up on that.

[13:59] Bruce: (although her paper might already be finished....)

[13:59] Riddle Sideways: she already submitted the paper

[13:59] Bruce: kk.

[13:59] PaB Bell: Shhhhhhhh! Quiet please.

[14:00] Riddle Sideways: oh shhhhhh yourself, bell

[14:00] Elan: Ha!

[14:00] Elan: I want to see Bunbun.

[14:00] Riddle Sideways: ok, bye session

[14:00] Qt Core: bye all

[14:01] Bruce: kk, I'm going to follow Riddle...

[14:01] Elan: me too.

[14:01] Elan: Bye for now, then, Qt.

[14:02] Riddle Sideways: Elan this is Bunbun

[14:02] Bruce: Ahhh!  Hello, Bunbun.

[14:02] Riddle Sideways: Bun, this is Bruce

[14:02] Bruce: Glad to meet you, Bunbun.

[14:02] Riddle Sideways: watch this

[14:02] Elan: kk.

[14:02] Riddle Sideways: bunbun fetchit

[14:03] Riddle Sideways: this was taught this morning

[14:03] Elan: Amazing.

[14:03] Riddle Sideways: bun good

[14:03] Elan: And it brought back the carrot!

[14:03] Riddle Sideways: bun good

[14:03] Bunbun whispers:      Noticed Bruce

[14:04] Bruce: Hi, Bunbun!

[14:04] Riddle Sideways: you can right-click "pet me"

[14:04] Elan: Gosh!

[14:04] Bruce: [pets Bunbun] This is so COOOL!

[14:05] Elan: Amazing.

[14:05] Riddle Sideways: was taught with "bun learn fetchit bun go atomic noseit wait .5 take atomic go nearest drop"

[14:06] Riddle Sideways: then say "bunbun good" after each time

[14:06] Elan: Ahhh.

[14:06] Riddle Sideways: and she will repeat it more often

[14:06] Elan: So, that is her script?

[14:06] Bunbun whispers:      Noticed butterfly6

[14:07] Bruce: Is she all right?

[14:07] Bruce: oh, good.

[14:07] Riddle Sideways: yes, however the script is not available/readable to us

[14:07] Bruce: kk.

[14:07] Bunbun whispers:      Noticed butterfly2

[14:07] Elan: Well, good humans and rabbit, I must be getting along now.

[14:07] Riddle Sideways: they have dogs, cats, bears, etc. etc.

[14:07] Elan: Bye for now.....

[14:07] Riddle Sideways: ok, bye bye

[14:08] Bruce: kk, so touching her just gets her attention....

[14:08] Bunbun whispers:      Noticed butterfly2

[14:08] Riddle Sideways: yep

[14:08] Bruce: hmmmm.

[14:08] Riddle Sideways: and she roams this plot

[14:08] Bruce: kk.

[14:08] Bunbun whispers:      Noticed butterfly1

[14:09] Bruce: VERY interesting.

[14:09] Riddle Sideways: occasionally steps onto Cat's plot

[14:09] Bruce: Thanks for pointing her out to us.

[14:09] Riddle Sideways: and gets put into the Lost & Found

[14:09] Bruce: I can imagine!

[14:09] Riddle Sideways: am sorry not to have told Aph

[14:09] Bruce: Well, that's going to do it for me.

[14:09] Riddle Sideways: k

[14:09] Bruce: Have a pleasant evening, Riddle.

[14:09] Bunbun whispers:      Noticed butterfly1

[14:10] Riddle Sideways: going to a lecture tonight

[14:10] Bruce: Enjoy!