2016.11.03 13:00 - Heart Sutra: "three-fold purity"

The Guardian for this meeting was Eos. The comments are by Eliza.

               photo added by Eos

Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Bleu!
Eliza Madrigal: lovely to see you...how doing?
Bleu Oleander: ok, you?
Eliza Madrigal: sipping coffee... warding off a bit of a headache :(
Bleu Oleander: sorry :(
Eliza Madrigal: lots of driving today and strange traffic patterns
Eliza Madrigal: Obama in town :)
Bleu Oleander: ah here too ... Hillary in town yesterday :)
Eliza Madrigal: Arizona on the play map :)
Bleu Oleander: yep
Bleu Oleander: will be happy when this is over ... whenever that turns out to be :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: I will let you have the slight comfort of imagining an over time
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: lol

Eliza Madrigal: I know I say this about every exhibit, but it would be nice to keep this one
Bleu Oleander: yes, I intend to get something out soon ... at least soonish :)
Bleu Oleander: been preoccupied
Eliza Madrigal: sure.... no worries, we have time....just that this is quite nice already ^.^
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Eliza and Bleu.
Bleu Oleander: yes will be a nice place for reflection
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Bruce

Eliza Madrigal have just found the preference button to see simply "typing" in name tags rather than bubbles overhead
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bleu Oleander: fun :)
Eliza Madrigal scratches head wondering why she can't find a working timestamp removal button
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Cat.

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: hi Cat
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi guys :)
Eliza Madrigal hopes all is well with everyone
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Eos.
Bleu Oleander: Hi Eos :)
Eos Amaterasu: HI Bleu, Eliza, Bruce, Catrina
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Eos :)
Eos Amaterasu: Korel :-) ~~
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kori, ltns
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Korel :) so great to see you
Bleu Oleander: hi Kori
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen
Eliza Madrigal: Hey, Zen :)
Korel Laloix: Osiyo
Zen Arado: bon soir
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Zen and Kori.
Korel Laloix: Heya
Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!

Zen Arado: I had to leave french class because the time changed
Eliza Madrigal: Europe ahead of US with time change?
Zen Arado: we just stay on European time there :)
Eos Amaterasu: a la recherche de temps perdu
Bleu Oleander: this weekend is US time change I think
Eliza Madrigal: yes Sunday for us
Eos Amaterasu: Sunday, fall back
Zen Arado: yep
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray ponders future perfect tense... Make me tense just to think of it.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Zen Arado: passe simple is the worst
Zen Arado: only used in literature
Eliza Madrigal: Tura will not make it today... not sure about Aph and Druth, but shall we begin? :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, let's.
Bleu Oleander: sure
Zen Arado: c;est parti
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Eos is going to open the session for us...
Zen Arado: I can type badly in 2 languages
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)

Beginning...

Eos Amaterasu: Hi everybody....
Zen Arado: Hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: From what was said last time, re discussion of "the heart sutra",
Eos Amaterasu: I thought to say something about what is called "three-fold purity".
Eos Amaterasu: In nutshell: no giver, no receiver, no action (or nothing given)
Eos Amaterasu: One context:
Eos Amaterasu: Tura Brezoianu: Go overboard on compassion, and you burn yourself out frantically trying to save the world, and fail to save anyone.
Eos Amaterasu: So this is extension of what "emptiness" is
Eos Amaterasu: factoring it into 3 aspects, especially re day-to-day life
Eos Amaterasu: and activities
Eos Amaterasu: It helps to begin with oneself
Eos Amaterasu: where thru something like dropping practice you can see space around the things you attribute to or about yourself
Eos Amaterasu: so you experience maybe momentary openness
Eos Amaterasu: no you, no boundary
Eos Amaterasu: or forget you for a sec, and world opens
Eos Amaterasu: then on to what you experience as other
Eos Amaterasu: so no boundary, no other (no other than you, so no other than that experience of open-ness)
Eos Amaterasu: and then the interaction, also
Eos Amaterasu: let go of fixating on self, fixating on other (you vs me), fixating on action or result of your action
Eos Amaterasu: doesn't mean no action
Eos Amaterasu: just means no reward or goodie for yourself, or for perceived satisfactory result in other
Eos Amaterasu: the gift then becomes just that openness
Eos Amaterasu: within which the tears and the smiles manifest
Eos Amaterasu: "deep in my heart I know there's no help I can bring" (Dylan, To Ramona)
Eos Amaterasu: but still you and he/she/them are manifesting colorfully
Eos Amaterasu: c'est tout
Eos Amaterasu: [done]
Eos Amaterasu: thnx
Eliza Madrigal: thank you!

Eos Amaterasu: One thought was to in the 90 second breaks
Zen Arado: thanks Eos
Eos Amaterasu: 1st do no-self, then do no-other, then do no-action
Eos Amaterasu: in the 3 breaks

--BELL--

Eos Amaterasu: (lab sessions)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm game :) everyone?
Bleu Oleander: sure
Eliza Madrigal: our pauses are more random so we can't give warning very easily now...
Catrinamonblue Resident: will try
Bruce Mowbray: Yes.
Eliza Madrigal: mine is a "game to try" too ^.^
Eliza Madrigal: shall we take a few minutes for questions before moving around the circle?
 

Doing no self?

Bleu Oleander: what does it mean to "do no-self"?
Eos Amaterasu: I think that's just the classic "drop what you have" thingie
Zen Arado: that's what I was wondering too
Bleu Oleander: ah ok
Eliza Madrigal: (at which point (moving circle) the bell will be like a hot potato, lol)

Bruce Mowbray: [13:09] Eos Amaterasu: It helps to begin with oneself
[13:09] Eos Amaterasu: where thru something like dropping practice you can see space around the things you attribute to or about yourself
[13:10] Eos Amaterasu: so you experience maybe momentary openness [13:10] Eos Amaterasu: no you, no boundary

(Pause)

Eliza Madrigal: observations?
Bruce Mowbray: One, yes.
Zen Arado: my self said 'who are you kidding?'
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eos Amaterasu: good question
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I love this line: " the gift then becomes just that openness." The openness is self-validating.
Bruce Mowbray: Does not require ME to validate it.
Eliza Madrigal nods... my thought was that it makes each interchangeable so no blockages
Eos Amaterasu: hmmm, wow, that's really good
Eliza Madrigal: "no hindrance no fear" perhaps
Bleu Oleander: in "doing no-self" it felt like "I" was doing a new way to inhabit my mind ... calling up a different inner voice
Zen Arado: self and no-self are both only concepts?
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Eliza Madrigal: did you hear differently, Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: a bit like play acting
Bleu Oleander: putting on a role
Eliza Madrigal: taking other parts/characters' voices?
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: positions maybe, interesting
Bleu Oleander: a role I was quite familiar with from years at PaB :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: a certain quality of thinking in a way
Eliza Madrigal: is that possible, in a way, because of 'emptiness' ?
Bleu Oleander: I don't think so ... for me
Zen Arado: how do you know if you are playing a role?
Bleu Oleander: I don't ever feel emptiness and maybe I just don't understand what is meant by the term?
Eos Amaterasu: I had a bit of experience of humour, (humor), which seems to just a bit unfixate and create space
Zen Arado: you have to know your 'true self'
Bleu Oleander: I don't feel I have a "true" self
Zen Arado: me either
Zen Arado: maybe it's all roles then?
Eliza Madrigal: humor Eos? amusement at 'self'?
Bleu Oleander: more dynamic and changing, situational
Zen Arado: nobody here but us roles
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: "selves" as functions....?
Eliza Madrigal: weird data
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eos Amaterasu: noticing myself latching on to something; that noticing being friendly, has allowance, humors the things and myself doing the things
Eliza Madrigal: including
Eliza Madrigal: nice
[edited out a line about logistics that proved to be unnecessary since the session flowed naturally]
Zen Arado: theoretically I know this
Bleu Oleander: who is realizing no-self?
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Zen Arado: but practically I don't experience it
Eos Amaterasu: Bleu's koan
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Whitman's "I contain multitudes" might also mean, "I contain all that is called 'other' within myself."
Catrinamonblue Resident: nice
Zen Arado: nods
Eliza Madrigal: multitudes containing self as well
Zen Arado: \maybe we have dropped a lot of self but just don't realise it?
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Zen Arado: we can never go back to what we wrere before to compare

Bruce Mowbray: [13:10] Eos Amaterasu: then on to what you experience as other
[13:11] Eos Amaterasu: so no boundary, no other (no other than you, so no other than that experience of open-ness)

--BELL--

Zen Arado: SL presets a physical boundary to seeing others
Zen Arado: just see a small representation
Bleu Oleander: I see you :)
Eliza Madrigal: that was neat... like subject object reversal along with a kind of Being seeing :)
Zen Arado: presents
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bleu
Catrinamonblue Resident: and yet I see you Zen.. maybe not with my eyes but in some way I see you
Zen Arado: through a glass darkly
Zen Arado: hmmm
Catrinamonblue Resident: isn't it always that way... I don't think we ever see clearly really
Eliza Madrigal: That's one question though, Zen... many 'teachers' would say gradual loss of self is somehow missing the point, and I wonder if that is similar to some Christian teachers insisting on being 'born again' - if they are describing a similar realization and *loss*
Zen Arado: yes Eliza
Zen Arado: reaching for some state
Eliza Madrigal: yet that loss is often a state as well
Bruce Mowbray: or, perhaps, being taken over by that "state" -- metanoia?
Zen Arado: but they are beyond knowledge
Bleu Oleander: we had a salon on Alzheimers last night ... gradual loss of self :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hmm
Zen Arado: yes and always living in the present
Eliza Madrigal: interesting thought Bruce, nods
Zen Arado: sounds likke what we reach for hmmm
Eos Amaterasu: falling momentarily into that state
 

No mind?

Eliza Madrigal: What about Tura's question.... One of the TSK exercises is about being aware of one's own awareness, and aware of one's awareness of one's awareness, etc. and mindfulness is a central theme in Buddhist teachings. I'm wondering how these fit together with the other major theme of emptiness? What is mindfulness if there is no mind?
Zen Arado: yes ..momentarily is ok
Bleu Oleander: do you think there is no mind?
Zen Arado: reminds me of orders of desire in philosophy
Eos Amaterasu: I heard my meditation teacher say once, "open space cannot be perceived by otherwise at all"
Eliza Madrigal: she is describing the turtles all the way down... embeddedness that always ends up in openness?
Zen Arado: I want..1st order...I want to want 2nd order etc
Eliza Madrigal: What have you come to feel about that, Eos?
Zen Arado: after 3rd it becomes meaningless
Eos Amaterasu: it's been a koan for decades for me :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: it rang true instantaneously
Bruce Mowbray: “The game is not about becoming somebody, it's about becoming nobody.” ― Ram Dass
Zen Arado: or not becomig at all?
Eos Amaterasu: i think humour can be that kind of open state, btw
Eos Amaterasu: especially shared humour
Eliza Madrigal: perceiving as openness... or at least that's the stretch I see myself try to make at the koan is... mind boggling
Eliza Madrigal: is that no mind?
Bruce Mowbray: Play as Being openness -- (?)

Bleu Oleander: isn't it your inner voice telling you that you are perceiving something you call openness?
Eos Amaterasu: yes...
Eos Amaterasu: maybe that's colour commentator
Zen Arado: one of the purposes of koans is to make you realize you can't encapsulate reality into neat cowrd and categories and concepts
Bleu Oleander: I like that ... colour commentator :)
Eliza Madrigal: please say more :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: listens
Zen Arado: words and categories
Eos Amaterasu: we appreciate something, then we tell ourselves about it, and tell our friends about it
Bruce Mowbray: play-by-play comments?
Eos Amaterasu: but in shared appreciation maybe we say nothing
Eos Amaterasu: at the time
Bruce Mowbray nods.... loves shared appreciation.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: but maybe we do say something
Eos Amaterasu: we make art :-)
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: yes! that is what I was considering... I can't say inner voice, but it could be a kind of voice, that speaks differently, as in something more akin to gesture
Eliza Madrigal: that happens sort of off page

Bruce Mowbray: [13:11] Eos Amaterasu: and then the interaction, also
[13:11] Eos Amaterasu: let go of fixating on self, fixating on other (you vs me), fixating on action or result of your action
[13:12] Eos Amaterasu: doesn't mean no action
[13:12] Eos Amaterasu: just means no reward or goodie for yourself, or for perceived satisfactory result in other
[13:12] Eos Amaterasu: the gift then becomes just that openness

Zen Arado: might be hard to motivate yourself to do anything then?
Bruce Mowbray: One of my all-time favorite sayings that Jesus is written to say (in John, I think) is: 'Of myself I do nothing; the Father does the work." No self, no other, just action....
Eos Amaterasu: noting the activity of art, gesture, as being empty/full
Zen Arado: we will feel an urge to do certain things I guess as Darryl Bailey says

--BELL--

Zen Arado: is the universe acting through us
Catrinamonblue Resident: I wrote a few little things but i am unsure if it really fits into what is being said here.... and I'm feeling shy about asking to share it but I'll put this out there anyway.........
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, exactly so, Zen.
Eliza Madrigal: please do Cat
Bruce Mowbray: Please share, CAt.

(hope that I didn't get the formatting wrong)

Catrinamonblue Resident:

the open door
the place within
the knowing of not knowing

the wanting to be something
a need a thought
who am I
why am I
what am I 

no self.... what could that be
to me and I
where do we fit

in the door
blocking the light
dimly seen
in the shadow
a light that grows
moves is shadow

Catrinamonblue Resident: done...
Zen Arado: nice Cat :)
Eos Amaterasu: Hmmm
Zen Arado: we get in our own way
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, really nice Cat... evocative of roles
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmmm.
Eliza Madrigal: shadow puppets
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm always in my own way...
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: In SL, avis cast no shadows (no visible ones, anyway.)

Bleu Oleander: so we use words to tell ourselves and to tell others what no-self feels like, which relies on our memories of the experience itself, which could be enhanced by our own biases in the initial perception and the retelling ... so how can we be confident of our no-self experience?
Eos Amaterasu: that may be part of the no-activity aspect
Eliza Madrigal: ah wu wei, an old friend, appears
Eos Amaterasu: let go confidence/no confidence

Eos Amaterasu: Was watching Zubin Mehta conducting symphony & at one point he just watches Placido Domingo sing: he just let go his baton far a few seconds listening to Placido, then the baton just lept into action and orchestral sound
Bruce Mowbray: Wu wei appears in (and as) the gift of openness.... and suddenly the baton MOVES!
Bleu Oleander: not confidence in that sense, more like a trust in our experience as we describe it
Zen Arado: can we describe it?
Eos Amaterasu: yeah, I get that feeling from Picasso - it doesn't matter what the result is, in some sense
Zen Arado: we have such faith in words
Eos Amaterasu: fidelity to the gesture
Bruce Mowbray: No attachment to the fruits of one's labors.
Eos Amaterasu: open space sweeping through open space
Eliza Madrigal: that seems a 'no mind' experience ... yet Bleu's questions make me ask about the seeming appearance of experiences that come and go vs no-self as change of being.. or something...
Zen Arado: but we like to share oiur successes with others?
Zen Arado: strange if we didn't?

Bruce Mowbray: Loneliness does not come from having no people around you, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to you. -- Carl Jung

Catrinamonblue Resident: we like to share our experiences with others... there is an inherent need to connect and validate
Zen Arado: even if we realze it didn't come from us ultimately
Zen Arado: we are sharing the creative universe
Eliza Madrigal: human being = being with others. There is the notion in philosophy that even when alone we are being with others in various ways
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Bruce Mowbray: We share Being with everything that has being....
Bleu Oleander: we define ourselves by others
Eliza Madrigal: oh, I like that Bruce
Zen Arado: De Bouton says we are ultimately alone because no one other person understands us completely

Eos Amaterasu: I think it was you Bleu who once shared a picture of a little girl imitating a dance move she was looking at in a painting
Zen Arado: so everyone is lonely...
Eos Amaterasu: sharing "one hand waving free..."
Bruce Mowbray thinks that no one would understand his typist, actually -- but his typist never seems to be lonely. Strange....
Bleu Oleander: even the tiny nematode worm which has about 300 genes has one gene that defines itself vs other :)
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: trying to remember that Eos
Eliza Madrigal: I don't recall either...now very curious
Bruce Mowbray: Sillouetted by the sea....
Zen Arado: depends how you define 'lonely'
Bruce Mowbray: Let me forget about today until tomorrow....
Zen Arado: but we can never be completely at one with another
Eliza Madrigal: embodiment seems to need that... a measure and comparison to draw out time
Zen Arado: or we wou;d be them ?
Zen Arado: hmm

Bruce Mowbray: Hey Mr. Tambourine Man.
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zen Arado: sing a song for me
Bruce Mowbray: and there aint no place I'm goin' to.
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm not sure Zen i would wish anyone to know me exactly as i know me... it might drive them stark raving mad ;)
Zen Arado: and vice versa Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
 

Musical Interlude...

Bruce Mowbray:

Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me
I'm not sleepy and there ain't no place I'm going to
Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me
In the jingle jangle morning I'll come following you

Though I know that evenings empire has returned into sand
Vanished from my hand Left me blindly here to stand
but still not sleeping My weariness amazes me,
I'm branded on my feet I have no one to meet
And the ancient empty street's too dead for dreaming

Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me
I'm not sleepy and there ain't no place I'm going to
Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me
In the jingle jangle morning I'll come following you

Take me on a trip upon your magic swirling ship
My senses have been stripped
My hands can't feel to grip My toes…

Zen Arado: jingle jangle morning...that;s how I feel
Zen Arado: :(
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Well, I wish Walt Whitman’s great heart and soul on the American people this Tuesday…
Bruce Mowbray: Pleeeeze... no jangling in my morning.... Please!
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you, Eos.
Bleu Oleander: ty Eos!

--BELL--

Zen Arado: thanks Eos and everybody
Eliza Madrigal: BYe Bruce :) And Zen :)
Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now, good people.
Bleu Oleander: nice to be with you all
Eliza Madrigal: there is that sense of knowing and Knowing... ie... Knowing seems spacious and inclusive... knowing about, but also opening up to freedom ...(@Cat)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu, you too
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Thanks Zen, Bruce et all
Bleu Oleander: bye bye and take care
Zen Arado: byee
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks so much Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Thank you all, cheers!
Catrinamonblue Resident: thank you all :)
Eliza Madrigal waves to Kori
Korel Laloix: ciao
Eliza Madrigal: and feels badly for Mick, just arriving....
Eliza Madrigal: oh, time change :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: oh dear
Mickorod Renard: Hi Folks

Eliza Madrigal: Cat that sentence prob didn't make sense but I was thinking of, you know when someone says, "If you could only see you through my eyes"
Catrinamonblue Resident: listening :)
Eliza Madrigal: and you get the sense that they see your goodness or expansiveness first, and it puts everything you may be down about in context
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick...so sorry!
Eliza Madrigal: You are arriving at the end...
Eliza Madrigal: we missed you
Mickorod Renard: am I?
Mickorod Renard: erk
Mickorod Renard: not again
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal nods.... US doesn't change time until Sunday :)
Mickorod Renard: sorry
Catrinamonblue Resident: that time change :)
Eliza Madrigal: grrr
Mickorod Renard: I should have realized ,,but I still have granddaughter schedule and that threw me
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: just read her bed time story and rushed down

Eliza Madrigal: do you have some thoughts about Heart Sutra?
Mickorod Renard: well, I had nothing to offer,,so I will read the log
Mickorod Renard: me?
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :) we talked about 3 fold purity...Eos opened the session
Mickorod Renard: have we finnished it?
Mickorod Renard: heart sutra
Eliza Madrigal: no, needed to ask someone to open next week's session....
Eliza Madrigal: but conversation was fastish moving today
Mickorod Renard: yes? thats interesting
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Mickorod Renard: so very stimulating
Eliza Madrigal: mhm, I'm 'bzzz'
Catrinamonblue Resident: sorry I have to go... see you guys later :)
Eliza Madrigal: bye Cat, gtsy
 

Mick arrives and we have Session Part II...

Mickorod Renard: I just think the hheart sutra is a commitment,,to take the boat to the other side
Mickorod Renard: bye cat
Eliza Madrigal: Cat brought something up just as we were finishing... basically about being hard on oneself... barriers to Knowing perhaps
Mickorod Renard: a leap of faith

Mickorod Renard: how so?
Eliza Madrigal: let me share her poem from session....
[reposted poem]
Eliza Madrigal: (she said she is always in her own way)

Mickorod Renard: I think you can do the easy thing and just follow every day life..or you can take some control to release yourself from it
Mickorod Renard: will just read that..mom
Mickorod Renard: ok got that
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: yes, there is that place,,that space where doubt and choice and so forth intersect..and you dont know whether to waste time following what will never change your life
Mickorod Renard: in any drastic way other than maybe purge some feeling
Eliza Madrigal: no benefit to realizing there may be no 'your life''?
Mickorod Renard: but for me I see something else
Eliza Madrigal listens
Mickorod Renard: well..there is the ......
Mickorod Renard: hunger to discover
Mickorod Renard: and that discovery is going to be diferent for each of us
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I'm lucky in never feeling like everyday life is easy
Eliza Madrigal: I charge back into it, appreciate and cherish, but am never completely comfortable
Mickorod Renard: well..I am lucky in some ways,,as I have some comfort..but i also am challenged in personal matters
Mickorod Renard: and I find that ,,I am maybe someone lacking some grace..and I need to find an option

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: these sessions we have is a way for me to discover alternative ways for me to manage my own thoughts
Eliza Madrigal: does it help?
Eliza Madrigal: when not here?
Mickorod Renard: as I cant change how the world comes to me
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Eliza Madrigal: so puts things that come to you in perspective
Eliza Madrigal: proportion
Mickorod Renard: well,,its easy to see them in perspectives that may not be helpful,,so to use some of these methods is for me good
Mickorod Renard: I am relearning something important
Mickorod Renard: something that never sunk in when I was young
Mickorod Renard: its easy to take on board the woes of the world
Mickorod Renard: especially if you are compasionate
Eliza Madrigal nods
Mickorod Renard: but there must be some peace from a form of seperation
Eliza Madrigal: must include oneself in compassion
Eliza Madrigal: guardianing

Mickorod Renard: and I see this from these studies we have,,the emptiness is also not an emptiness from caring
Mickorod Renard: but a sort of insulation from the effects of being open
Eliza Madrigal: hm, or expansion of stability, base, from which to care?
Mickorod Renard: perhaps
Mickorod Renard: i think its very deep,,it can be appropriate for all manner of events

Mickorod Renard: did Eos shed any new light from what he covered today?
Eliza Madrigal: yes.... beautifully....
Mickorod Renard: was it related to heart sutra
Eliza Madrigal: I was just copying that actually
Eliza Madrigal: to give you...
Mickorod Renard: ty
Eliza Madrigal: to tide over until I have session posted
Eliza Madrigal: ...

Eos Amaterasu: From what was said last time, re discussion of "the heart sutra",
Eos Amaterasu: I thought to say something about what is called "three-fold purity".
Eos Amaterasu: In nutshell: no giver, no receiver, no action (or nothing given)
Eos Amaterasu: One context:
Eos Amaterasu: Tura Brezoianu: Go overboard on compassion, and you burn yourself out frantically trying to save the world, and fail to save anyone.
Eos Amaterasu: So this is extension of what "emptiness" is
Eos Amaterasu: factoring it into 3 aspects, especially re day-to-day life
Eos Amaterasu: and activities
Eos Amaterasu: It helps to begin with oneself
Eos Amaterasu: where thru something like dropping practice you can see space around the things you attribute to or about yourself
Eos Amaterasu: so you experience maybe momentary openness
Eos Amaterasu: no you, no boundary
Eos Amaterasu: or forget you for a sec, and world opens
Eos Amaterasu: then on to what you experience as other
Eos Amaterasu: so no boundary, no other (no other than you, so no other than that experience of open-ness)
Eos Amaterasu: and then the interaction, also
Eos Amaterasu: let go of fixating on self, fixating on other (you vs me), fixating on action or result of your action
Eos Amaterasu: doesn't mean no action
Eos Amaterasu: just means no reward or goodie for yourself, or for perceived satisfactory result in other
Eos Amaterasu: the gift then becomes just that openness
Eos Amaterasu: within which the tears and the smiles manifest
Eos Amaterasu: "deep in my heart I know there's no help I can bring" (Dylan, To Ramona)
Eos Amaterasu: but still you and he/she/them are manifesting colorfully
Eos Amaterasu: c'est tout
Eos Amaterasu: [done]

Mickorod Renard: well, isnt that wierd,,the start was just like what I just said
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eliza Madrigal: so much wisdom coming forward in these sessions
Eliza Madrigal: you'll enjoy reading :)

Mickorod Renard: you put me on the spot and it was as much as I could think to say,,I would prefer to have been more eloquent
Eliza Madrigal: lol, not at all... really appreciate that you connect day to day life and these topics... helps me
Mickorod Renard: I have a roller coaster of a life,,and my past has been so rich in experience,,i have felt overwhelmed by it all and still do today
Eliza Madrigal: seems that way, just in little jewels you leave scattered about
Mickorod Renard: on a daily basis,,,,,,,I have to find ways of managing and at the same time helping others
Mickorod Renard: but as I say I lack a certain grace

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: have you been more someone in your own rythms, than someone to manage with others, in the past?
Mickorod Renard: in the end,,I know I will look back and see it all as a harmless story and that is what is behind it all
Mickorod Renard: not sure I understand the rythms?
Eliza Madrigal: mm... some people are kind of solitary in their patterns/ways... doing more 'for' others than 'with'
Eliza Madrigal: 'responsible' types :))
Mickorod Renard: he he ..I never think of myself as responsible,,yet in another way I have been a controller and trying to steer events for folks benefits
Eliza Madrigal: don't mind me.... am overstimulated as usual and starting to pry :))
Eliza Madrigal: ooh, that's insightful
Mickorod Renard: but for myself I am not responsible as I like living close to the edge
Eliza Madrigal: with the feeling you can just 'go' ?

Mickorod Renard: i have never feared death as such..other than a time I was remote with my young son and had to survive
Mickorod Renard: so feared death due to fear for others yes
Eliza Madrigal nods... I understand
Eliza Madrigal: Paul... staying for others' sake
Eliza Madrigal: but in this context, self and others and things exchanged are all dropped..
Mickorod Renard: some thought it desrespectful of life to be so ..reckless,,but for me i was just satisfied with life so much I was content
Eliza Madrigal: were you like that before the accident?
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: it was very useful,,as i had chance to see so many things in life that came from being fearless...not brave
Eliza Madrigal: must be nice to reflect and think/see that way
Mickorod Renard: I look back and cannot believe what things I have experienced

Mickorod Renard: but back to your q
Mickorod Renard: all dropped
Mickorod Renard: I think I would have to take it apart to see that question
Eliza Madrigal: :) thank you
Mickorod Renard: everyone has a story line they are in..and we often get pulled in but shouldnt
Mickorod Renard: I wonder if that is part of that context?
Eliza Madrigal: when story drops?

Mickorod Renard: I mean,,in my mind i am living my story,,and as I am the centre of my universe I think everyone else is part of my story..but of course they are not
Eliza Madrigal: who is not?
Mickorod Renard: they have their own story
Eliza Madrigal: too...but aren't they also part of yours?
Eliza Madrigal: and you theirs?

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: what I mean is,,you cannot take charge of their story
Eliza Madrigal: ah
Mickorod Renard: so ..in a broader sense..that is empty
Mickorod Renard: we clutter ourselves with things that are out of our control
Eliza Madrigal: I see... re compassion and responsibility... and whether all will be OK if not stepping in sometimes
Mickorod Renard: we effect other stories and this comes about cause and effect etc
Eliza Madrigal: Storm used to say if one doesn't define their goals and limits, someone else will gladly do it for us
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I should go...
Mickorod Renard: so the system that we seem to study leans towards putting the basics right,,so that cause ond effect is of no fault of your own and all other events are outside your thingy
Eliza Madrigal: (((Mick)))) Will consider

Mickorod Renard: yeppers,,its too deep for a few mins
Eliza Madrigal smiles... I feel it is part of an ongoing conversation we've been having a long while now
Mickorod Renard: have a good day,,watch how you guys vote,,he he #
Eliza Madrigal: open on both ends :)
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eliza Madrigal: Oh goodness.... have voted and now have to surrender to fellow man
Mickorod Renard: never closing
Mickorod Renard: grin
Eliza Madrigal: trust humanity @@
Mickorod Renard: all a big adventure
Eliza Madrigal: hahah.... have a nice night
Mickorod Renard: see you soon
Eliza Madrigal: thanks again
Mickorod Renard: cheers