The Guardian for this meeting was Agatha Macbeth. The comments are by Agatha Macbeth.

Agatha Macbeth: Lizzie ♥
Eliza Madrigal: (((Agatha))))
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: How's thee?
Eliza Madrigal: Well, thanks. You?
Agatha Macbeth: Bit chilly
Eliza Madrigal: well you have no closed shoes on
Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
Agatha Macbeth thwops you
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Agatha Macbeth: Is George well?
Eliza Madrigal: Do you use Mouselook when in SL?
Agatha Macbeth: Rarely
Eliza Madrigal: he's doing very well, lots of excitement for him recently, visitors and such, so happy pup
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick!
Agatha Macbeth: Owdo Mick
Agatha Macbeth: Oi come back
Eliza Madrigal: I was asking about mouselook because I've been learning to use Active Presenter, but want to/need to learn to use zoom. So I think I must learn to mouselook better
Agatha Macbeth: We're over here
Mickorod Renard: Hiya
Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, a side issue :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hiyaaaa
Agatha Macbeth: When I want to look close at something I usually just use alt click
Eliza Madrigal: me too, normally
Agatha Macbeth: That's better than mouselook IMO
Eliza Madrigal: It just isn't so clear, with the arrow showing
Mickorod Renard: ah, sorted
Eliza Madrigal: maybe I can get rid of that
Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)
Eliza Madrigal: How are contractions Mick?
Agatha Macbeth: Arrow?
Mickorod Renard: got a bit complex there with a little one arriving down from bed with tales of creaking floorboards and opening doors
Eliza Madrigal: Always exciting
Agatha Macbeth: Harry Potter strikes again
Mickorod Renard: still holding on,,I am sure no birth for a couple of weeks at least
Mickorod Renard: its my pipes creaking from expansion
Eliza Madrigal: With 3rd pregnancy I had more false alarms and braxton hicks contractions
Eliza Madrigal: not sure why... larger baby I guess :)
Agatha Macbeth: Toni?
Eliza Madrigal: yeah, groovy baby....
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: this is her 4th but for some reason I am still the expert..dont know why
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Agatha Macbeth: She should know what she's doing then
Eliza Madrigal: she is/they are super lucky
Eliza Madrigal: to have so much help and support
Mickorod Renard: one day she will realize what a fool I am
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: brb coffee finished, but I did read almost the rest of the book ^.^
Agatha Macbeth: There's no fool like...
Mickorod Renard: I only fathered one and did first aid for 6 years
Mickorod Renard: hardly experienced
Agatha Macbeth: Were the two connected?#
Mickorod Renard: nah
Mickorod Renard: well, busy here today
Mickorod Renard: I may have to announce that this thursday may be my last
Mickorod Renard: you read the ;last of the book? wow eliza
Eliza Madrigal: aw, last session hosting, Mick, but not attending?
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: Thursdays may fall away... but not sure what else can be done.
Mickorod Renard: might be both,,will need to prioratize what i am doing
Agatha Macbeth: Busy boy
Eliza Madrigal: wow
Mickorod Renard: need some captivating subject matter
Mickorod Renard: what goes on on other sessions ran by pab?
Eliza Madrigal: This book has been great, but two sessions a week has scattered attention
Eliza Madrigal: maybe
Mickorod Renard: I think it may have,,but the idea to accomodate more was good
Eliza Madrigal: Um.... good question. :) Morning sessions are warm and lively, sharing life, jazzily bantering
Mickorod Renard: but even some that were accomodated drifted away
Eliza Madrigal: these afternoon sessions have been more focused
Eliza Madrigal nods, true
Eliza Madrigal: One never knows I guess... immediate response of YES let's do this!
Eliza Madrigal: but then life happening :)
Eliza Madrigal: Dream sessions will go on for a while more too
Mickorod Renard: I am convinced that the book was drawn out
Eliza Madrigal: how so?
Mickorod Renard: well, i was supprised that in the end the focus was the same as the start,,no secret..just debate of whether it was literal or not
Eliza Madrigal nods, can see that
Mickorod Renard: and noone here really began thinking it was literal
Eliza Madrigal: not literal but meaningful
Eliza Madrigal: It actually softened my heart a little...
Agatha Macbeth: I still don't :p
Mickorod Renard: still don't what Ags?
Agatha Macbeth: See it literally
Mickorod Renard: no, it wasn't to make u think it was literal, the opposite
Agatha Macbeth: Ah it worked then!
Mickorod Renard: but we didnt anyway
Agatha Macbeth: Would you Adam & Eve it
Mickorod Renard: so it was a reaffermation of what we thought anyway
Agatha Macbeth: Looks so
Agatha Macbeth: Wonder where Bruce is?
Mickorod Renard: a bit like a large book on how to do a boiled egg
Agatha Macbeth: Yolk's on you
Mickorod Renard: glad i read it tho
Mickorod Renard: and artistically I liked it
Eliza Madrigal: I have loved the language, and the richness of thought
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: but i think we need some challenging topic
Eliza Madrigal: I have a quote from the last chapter as illustration.
Eliza Madrigal: "What we receive from our archaic forebears are not divine chastisements, but rather the living traces of successful accommodations our species made to the world over tens of thousands of years. Hence our sexual division of labor, our craving for sugar and animal fat, our mastery of fire, and our capacity for extreme violence take their place alongside our subtle social skills, our toolmaking, our expressive powers in language and imagery, all of which contributed to survival in a harsh, dangerous environment.
Eliza Madrigal: it is awe-striking in its way
Eliza Madrigal: same as faith
Mickorod Renard: yes, much comes around to the same...a hand in hand thing
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: what does worry me though, is whether mankind make a leap from how we opperated to something more sinister
Agatha Macbeth: In what way?
Mickorod Renard: I hear alot folk saying about war caused by religion..but I dont buy it
Eliza Madrigal: nor I
Mickorod Renard: its power mongering
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe it stops it too
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Mickorod Renard: and the mongerers look for division,,in any form
Eliza Madrigal: people war over resources, and in that sense power-over becomes important
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: most religions, if taken for the unspoilt aspect generally project love for one another
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: giving tools and stories of compassion
Eliza Madrigal: bridges
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eliza Madrigal: so what is the role of faith and devotion in, not a post Adam and Eve world?
Eliza Madrigal: *-not
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure the world is ready for a uniformal automated clinical set of rules
Eliza Madrigal: Devotion is a word I love and am really drawn to, but which I never feel there is a way to talk about in PaB
Eliza Madrigal: when I got here almost 9 years ago, I had a chip on my shoulder about the word 'faith' but have broken through to some openness with that
Mickorod Renard: I would like you to say more Eliza, but dont want to push
Eliza Madrigal: it is just not easy to articulate, and sometimes when we begin to talk in that direction there is a need to be so....hm....
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Eliza Madrigal: definite in thwarting ahead of time, the literal aspects
Mickorod Renard: many of these words have several meanings depending on context
Mickorod Renard: yes, i agree
Eliza Madrigal: purposefully, I'm devoted to a kind of openness, but at the heart of that openness is a seed of faith or wonder
Mickorod Renard: I am the worst because even tho I am english my mastery of the language is quite poor
Mickorod Renard: I talk from the heart,,maybe its like what you are trying to say Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: it is
Mickorod Renard: I trust that folk will understand my well meaning..and i have a faith in that
Eliza Madrigal: the way faith is mixed with a kind of romance is probably what I mean by devotion
Mickorod Renard: but i may well say things wrong
Mickorod Renard: i think I am similar there Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Solomon writing to his beloved, Jesus washing feet of disciples, Rumi and Hafiz, Tagore... yes I think so too
Eliza Madrigal: even dropping literalism the aliveness keeps unfolding and sometimes one wants to follow or allow that
Mickorod Renard: well yes, because it talks to that part of you that wants to hear it
Eliza Madrigal: so to sum up I think this book did a good job of framing a question for those of us who are devoted and yet bereft of sure place for that due to passionate doubting
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: in the book Darwin loosed his desire for poetry
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes
Eliza Madrigal: that was interesting, what did you think?
Mickorod Renard: I find I am fighting that in a sort of sandbox almost hidden in my head
Mickorod Renard: a sort of voice saying become practical,,but my other romanitic side saying no, i love the as you say it romance
Mickorod Renard: without it i fear life would loose its beuty, like all the colours go off the trees and flowers
Eliza Madrigal: mmm... as for Darwin. He described his mind in a kind of mechanical way
Eliza Madrigal: yet obviously there was wonder in discovery
Eliza Madrigal: and in seeing ahead of his time
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: it may touch on the sexism discussion too... because people fear losing the playfulness of push and pull should there be so many rules and definitions, but maybe it is a learning curve...a case of generational gaps
Eliza Madrigal: Piet/Pema wrote something interesting today...
Eliza Madrigal: on the yhouse blog
Mickorod Renard: yes?
Eliza Madrigal: he said that it isn't that people want to go back to another better time necessarily,
Agatha Macbeth: Waht's yhouse?
Eliza Madrigal: but that they want to return to the slower pace
Mickorod Renard: a drop inj in ny
Eliza Madrigal: let me get a link and a better quote
Mickorod Renard: I think we may do that naturally..as mechanisation takes a firmer hold... the dynamics of controlling the 'masses'(people) become deeply problomatic tho
Eliza Madrigal: but in a more deliberate way?
Mickorod Renard: technology should allow us to slow down but the establishment has a need to keep us busy
Eliza Madrigal: Yhouse - Piet's blog: "However, it is not so much the past that people are nostalgic for, it is the past rate of change, which was slower, providing stability, when sloshing was the exception, rather than the rule."
Eliza Madrigal: https://www.yhousenyc.org/yhouse-blo...scale-crossing
Mickorod Renard: ty eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Sloshing?
Eliza Madrigal: the sloshing term is explained in the article, lol
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Eliza Madrigal: he starts off talking about the balances of time we keep in doing simple things like walking across the room with coffee
Mickorod Renard: to save us reading this second could you overview sloshing?
Eliza Madrigal: That's my best shot, since he's writing about scientific concepts bridging our sense of things
Eliza Madrigal: sloshing coffee :)
Mickorod Renard: ah I see
Mickorod Renard: so he means we could slow down by becoming more efficient?
Eliza Madrigal: "time-scale crossing"
Eliza Madrigal: it links in with other articles on the blog.
Eliza Madrigal: anyway, sort of (another) side issue but came to mind
Mickorod Renard: companies, that like to make money,,expect an output for pay..if folk slow down they take the work to a country where they pay less..if u are in us or uk u have to work for the money
Eliza Madrigal: thus the focus on you are what you DO
Mickorod Renard: some folk have little lkife beyond their work
Mickorod Renard: it becomes total absorbsion
Eliza Madrigal: propagating division between making a living and making a life
Mickorod Renard: they ran two types of studies,,well maybe hundreds but for sake of chat two
Mickorod Renard: one was ask where everyone wanted to live...australia
Mickorod Renard: then they asked in another,,where is everyone most content
Eliza Madrigal: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :D :p :D :p :D
Mickorod Renard: and it was somewhere like dominical republic
Eliza Madrigal: oops, sorry
Agatha Macbeth: Liz had a wee
Eliza Madrigal: why Australia?
Mickorod Renard: cos the disparity between those that have and those that didnt was so slight
Eliza Madrigal: ahh
Mickorod Renard: dominican repub was best
Eliza Madrigal: like the studies that show it isn't how much people have, but where in their social hierarchy they fall
Eliza Madrigal: has to do with dignity
Mickorod Renard: austaralia was what peple thought was best.,ie the grass greener on the other side
Mickorod Renard: yes Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: I always think of places like Iceland and Sweden or Switzerland
Mickorod Renard: and that also gives a feeling of securirty too
--BELL--
Mickorod Renard: in the boat with everyone
Eliza Madrigal: sense of human family tribe as being close to distinct family tribes
Eliza Madrigal: makes perfect sense
Mickorod Renard: rather than left behind or outside
Eliza Madrigal: that's the longing perhaps... safety
Mickorod Renard: yes, i am sure of it
Eliza Madrigal: without which no progress happens (maslow)
Mickorod Renard: and safety often starts wars too,,as its a reaction to threat
Mickorod Renard: isnt the top of maslows that lovely word i aim for?..i forgot it
Eliza Madrigal: good question Mick... not sure. equanimity and bliss maybe are closely related
Mickorod Renard: altuism was the woord i was looking for
Eliza Madrigal: aha!
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Mickorod Renard: we discussed it before
Mickorod Renard: I think , because as a group we are stereotypically leaning in that direcrtion,,we dont get into debate too much
Eliza Madrigal: :P
Eliza Madrigal: that's true
Eliza Madrigal: we're not a debate group
Mickorod Renard: that too
Mickorod Renard: I think I have to slip away..stuff to do,,clear up mess..usual..kids
Eliza Madrigal: me too actually
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: took all the xmas deco down today
Mickorod Renard: boo hoo
Eliza Madrigal: aw
Eliza Madrigal: but it is still cold, so wintery
Mickorod Renard: i have left it up till easter before
Eliza Madrigal: @@
Agatha Macbeth: Took mine down on Jan 1
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't put up a tree this year
Eliza Madrigal: but we always take it down before Jan 1... or almost always
Mickorod Renard: yes?..we stick to the 12 day rule
Mickorod Renard: thereabouts
Eliza Madrigal: 12 day rule?
Mickorod Renard: ok,,see ya around guys
Agatha Macbeth: Seems depressing to leave em up longer
Eliza Madrigal: okay nice to see you Mick, Aggers
Mickorod Renard: happy skating
Agatha Macbeth: Ave fun
Mickorod Renard: see ya Ags
Eliza Madrigal: (((aggers))))