The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza. The comments are by Aggers.

Eliza Madrigal: Good evening, Tura :)
Tura Brezoianu: evening Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Interesting day so far?
Tura Brezoianu: hard at work reading some scientific papers
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, that could be fu and interesting or the opposite!
Tura Brezoianu: hi Agatha
Eliza Madrigal: fun*
Agatha Macbeth: Greetings
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha :)
Agatha Macbeth: Stupid cushions these
Eliza Madrigal: anything that might be relevant to our discussions here?
--BELL--1.00
Tura Brezoianu: Maybe. Free energy, which came up in our discussion of Maxine's book.
Bleu Oleander's current display-name is "Bleu".
Bleu Oleander: hi all :)
Eliza Madrigal: Great topic! "free energy"
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Bleuji
Tura Brezoianu: Bit of a rabbit hole though, jumping from one paper to another until it bottoms out in something I know.
Eliza Madrigal: whatever process works!
Eliza Madrigal: with Maxine's book I guess we mostly used free energy as a metaphor ?
Eliza Madrigal: The wiki is down until possibly tomorrow, so I can't access the potential topics list Aph compiled, nor find our discussion. This may be a good thing, force onto toes!
Tura Brezoianu: Yes, and even in the scientific stuff it's still mostly a metaphor.
Agatha Macbeth: What's up with the wiki?
Eliza Madrigal: just the certificate
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Agatha Macbeth: That all
Eliza Madrigal: must be renewed yearly and Alf is on it
Agatha Macbeth: Bless him
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: bless us one and all
Agatha Macbeth: I must send him a bone
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: ty Alf :)
Eliza Madrigal: just a quick scan tells me that free energy is mixed up into many other discussions
Eliza Madrigal: what context are you exploring in, Tura?
Tura Brezoianu: It has to do with control systems, and something called Perceptual Control Theory
Tura Brezoianu: but the free energy thing is something of a rival to that
Eliza Madrigal: Perpetual Control sounds ominous!
Tura Brezoianu: The central thesis of PCT is that everything that we do, we do in order to achieve some perception.
Agatha Macbeth: Perpetually out of control is far worse
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Tura Brezoianu: PCT in a slogan is "behaviour is the control of perception".
Tura Brezoianu: In contrast to e.g. behaviourists, who think that perceptions (stimuli) control behaviour (responses).
Eliza Madrigal: ah, so the centerpoint is different
Tura Brezoianu: Or in ordinary language, we act to achieve goals.
Bleu Oleander: perceptual or perpetual?
Tura Brezoianu: Perceptual
Bleu Oleander: ok thanks
Eliza Madrigal: ahah! I sent us in a weird direction with misreading
Agatha Macbeth: Diversion
Santoshima Resident: 's current display-name is "San".
Agatha Macbeth: Hello San :)
Tura Brezoianu: hi San
Santoshima Resident: Hello
Eliza Madrigal: there is a video going around of a camera locked into a ball of an olympic dancer...
Bleu Oleander: hi San :)
Eliza Madrigal: which comes to mind thinking about perceptual control
Eliza Madrigal: Hi San
Santoshima Resident: hi
Tura Brezoianu: "A ball of an olympic dancer"? I fear I have not misunderstood :)
Eliza Madrigal: am looking... thought of three ways to describe that, hah
Agatha Macbeth waits to hear more
--BELL--1.15
Eliza Madrigal: it is a rhythmic gymnastics routine... but there are two videos
Eliza Madrigal: one is locked into the dancer as a focal point
Eliza Madrigal: and one is locked into the ball
Eliza Madrigal: the effect is striking
Tura Brezoianu: /thinks silently in mindfulness "Sounds remarkable. Am looking at a few videos, it's like a combination of contact juggling and dance."
Bleu Oleander: you can see that effect when you lock your sl camera on a moving object
Eliza Madrigal: may take too much session to find that video, but I'll try to add to the session
Eliza Madrigal: yes Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: does that seem an ok example of what you're describing Tura?
Tura Brezoianu: Yes, could be
Eliza Madrigal: the phrase free energy makes me think of 'time affluence' too
Tura Brezoianu: I haven't heard of that one
Eliza Madrigal: a concept from a Yale Wellbeing course I took online earlier in the year
Eliza Madrigal: not sure if that's the source of the idea though
Tura Brezoianu: Best obtained by having a pile of money and the health to use it :)
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: well, there is the encouragement of thinking in diverse ways about what makes for a good life
Eliza Madrigal: when I see my kids, the whole focus is on how they will do what their parents generation did or better
Eliza Madrigal: which makes little sense
Tura Brezoianu: And then they turn into their parents :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) surely not
Eliza Madrigal grins
Tura Brezoianu: Sometimes they turn into their grandparents instead
Eliza Madrigal: ouch
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: btw, interesting paper here re PCT Tura : https://docs.google.com/<wbr/>document/d/<wbr/>1PXYZwBEXAN1SqNZAaSvgT-<wbr/>Xj5afThG4DmB29i5pgCHE/edit
Tura Brezoianu: Oh yes, I knew Bill Powers (discoverer/inventor/initiator of PCT)
Bleu Oleander: too long to read now, but looks interesting
Agatha Macbeth: TLDR
Santoshima Resident: a bit
Tura Brezoianu: He's worth reading, but TL to read right now
--BELL--1.30
Agatha Macbeth: Stormy :)
Santoshima Resident: hello Storm
Bleu Oleander: hi Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi. Sorry I'm late!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm :) We're learning/talking about Perceptual Control
Tura Brezoianu: hi Storm
Agatha Macbeth: You are forgiven
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: Sounds very technical. I shall just listen :)
Agatha Macbeth: It is Stormy
Agatha Macbeth: It involves olympic dancers' balls
Storm Nordwind: And which way round they go?
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Eliza Madrigal: :P
Eliza Madrigal: The contrast was between free energy and perceptual control... interesting notion
Eliza Madrigal: what came to mind for me was a video contrast I saw of a rhythmic gymnast/dancer, where one camera fixed on the ball, but a separate fixed on her
Eliza Madrigal: separate camera*
Storm Nordwind nods
Eliza Madrigal: it was so easy to watch the one where the ball stayed still and the dancer swirled around it :)
Agatha Macbeth: 'It's all relative'
Bleu Oleander: here's one: https://www.bing.com/videos/<wbr/>search?q=camera+focused+on+<wbr/>olympic+dancer+versus+ball+<wbr/>video&&view=detail&mid=<wbr/>8A3624786FB832A6BA558A3624786F<wbr/>B832A6BA55&&FORM=VRDGAR
Storm Nordwind: I saw a similar thing with a roller coaster a day of two ago.
Eliza Madrigal: sort of makes me think of the conversation about zero sum, as well, vs. thinking more creatively
Eliza Madrigal clicks
Tura Brezoianu: There must be a joke in there about how many olympic dancers it takes to change a lightbulb.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: 42?
Eliza Madrigal: the answer is always love
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Storm Nordwind: Or how many there are on the head of a pin?
Agatha Macbeth: Or lettuce
Eliza Madrigal: they may be talking about the same technology in that video
Eliza Madrigal: we'll away your report, Tura, lol
Eliza Madrigal: await
Agatha Macbeth wonders if Liz is using a dragon
Tura Brezoianu: Maybe one of Powers' books could be suitable for a reading, but they seem to be a bit pricey, and none on Kindle.
Tura Brezoianu: (seguing into the subject of book discussion)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'm interested in anything almost, when there is a guide
Agatha Macbeth: Actually I thought that's what we were going to discuss
Eliza Madrigal: I've purchased both the Path and Gilgamesh books, but am open to something wildly new, too
Agatha Macbeth: 0.0
Santoshima Resident: please excuse me, must go, will watch for the report.
Agatha Macbeth: How wild and how new?
Agatha Macbeth: BFN San
Eliza Madrigal: Just can't organize for the time being
Bleu Oleander: bye San
Eliza Madrigal: What are your thoughts Agatha? Can you continue to make it on Thursdays?
Agatha Macbeth: FTTB yes
Agatha Macbeth: Don't see anything looming as such
Eliza Madrigal: that seems good? :)
Agatha Macbeth: So the logging should be overed
--BELL--1.45
Agatha Macbeth: And covered too
Eliza Madrigal: yay
Agatha Macbeth smiles
Agatha Macbeth: Dunno what Mick is doing
Eliza Madrigal: Mick said he may need a few weeks to regroup
Agatha Macbeth: OK
Eliza Madrigal: every time someone uses the phrase "for the time being", I think of Dogen:
Eliza Madrigal: For the time being stand on top of the highest peak. For the time being proceed along the bottom of the deepest ocean. For the time being three heads and eight arms. For the time being an eight- or sixteen-foot body. For the time being a staff or whisk. For the time being a pillar or lantern. For the time being the sons of Zhang and Li. For the time being the earth and sky.
Agatha Macbeth: Probably snowed under with kids
Eliza Madrigal nods
Agatha Macbeth: Which is no bad thing :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) what summers are for
Agatha Macbeth: Aye
Eliza Madrigal: Storm, what are you up to now? Have gotten busy?
Storm Nordwind: Writing mostly :)
Eliza Madrigal: poetry?
Agatha Macbeth: A noble pastime
Storm Nordwind: Finished that course yes. Writing everyday. Short fiction too. Another course in September. May try to find one in ther interim.
Eliza Madrigal: blazing a trail!
Agatha Macbeth: Yee haw
Storm Nordwind: There's a daily sketch challenge someone is running on Mastodon.ART and I asked them if I could do word sketches, as that's my medium. So doing one a day for that.
Storm Nordwind: Keeps me off teh streets ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Nice that you're able to tailor it for yourself
Eliza Madrigal: I joined Mastodon but have done nothing with it
Agatha Macbeth: Hope they don't find you frozen in Siberia
Eliza Madrigal: except looked for a storm
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: Want to make sure to announce Guardian Meeting on Sunday at 12 pm SLT
Eliza Madrigal: will send email
Agatha Macbeth: Best to announce it before then :p
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal pushes Agatha into the pool
Agatha Macbeth: Splosh
Eliza Madrigal: we'll talk about land stuff and books maybe, and ART, and ...
Agatha Macbeth: Sex?
Bleu Oleander: ok thanks Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: if that's the topic you want to lead us in Agatha, go for it :))
Storm Nordwind: Just posted a note that the wiki needs its security certificate renewed. That will be important
Bleu Oleander: gotta run ... nice to see you all ... take care
Eliza Madrigal nods emailed with Alfred
Agatha Macbeth: One of the most wonderful things about PaB is it never gets mentioned
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu! tc
Agatha Macbeth: TC Bleuji
Tura Brezoianu: bye Bleu
Bleu Oleander: bye bye
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't think we were due for an update but he says it will be done by tomorrow morning
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Storm Nordwind: Very cool. Good old Alfred
Eliza Madrigal: so I will be forced not to post the session until tomorrow
Eliza Madrigal: not sure how I will handle that
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: I'll do it
Eliza Madrigal: I think in almost 10 years I've posted a session a day late maybe twice
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, thanks Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: YW x
Eliza Madrigal: love your hat, btw
Agatha Macbeth: Cool innit?
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: fashion queen
Eliza Madrigal: haha, reading back >>Agatha Macbeth: One of the most wonderful things about PaB is it never gets mentioned<<
Agatha Macbeth: I like to make the effort :)
Eliza Madrigal: well, we're avatars, what's to talk about :)
Agatha Macbeth: Oh you'd be surprised
Eliza Madrigal: it is a little curious, but maybe not so phenomenologically relevant for us
Eliza Madrigal: :)
--BELL--2.00
Agatha Macbeth: Depends on one's POV I guess
Tura Brezoianu: I've read about such things in Huckleberry Hax's novels
Agatha Macbeth: Not surprised :p
Eliza Madrigal: what a great name
Agatha Macbeth: I've heard his poetry
Agatha Macbeth: He's not a blue dog by the way
Tura Brezoianu: "blue dog"?
Agatha Macbeth: Huckleberry Hound reference...
Storm Nordwind: Oooh, not as in conservative Democrat?
Agatha Macbeth: He was a blue dawg with a dixie accent
Eliza Madrigal: half of what you say flies over my head until hours later
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Agatha Macbeth: Only half?
Agatha Macbeth: I must be getting better
Storm Nordwind: Most of the stuff that flies over my head never seems to land
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Agatha Macbeth: It has to go high to get over your head Stormy
Storm Nordwind: 5800 feet
Eliza Madrigal: 9 of our 10 eyes are just gazing around
Agatha Macbeth: Eye eye
Storm Nordwind: Isn't that a bird?
Agatha Macbeth: A ptarmigan?
Eliza Madrigal: did the hoopoe come back for more punishment?
Agatha Macbeth: European or African...oh never mind
Storm Nordwind: hehe Eliza!
Storm Nordwind: Oh it's a lemur, not a bird.
Agatha Macbeth: From Lemuria
Storm Nordwind groans
Eliza Madrigal: sighs happily
Storm Nordwind is evidently insufficiently Attenboroughed
Agatha Macbeth pokes Liz in the ear
Eliza Madrigal rings
Eliza Madrigal: Okay, time to go, for now, but hope to see everyone Sunday... will send note now
Agatha Macbeth: Oke poke
Eliza Madrigal: (((much appreciation))))))
Storm Nordwind: Bye Eliza!
Agatha Macbeth: Mutual ♥
Eliza Madrigal: bfn
Tura Brezoianu: bye Eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Be careful out there
Storm Nordwind: I too will be off. Thank you Agatha :)
Agatha Macbeth: Nighty night
Agatha Macbeth: YW
Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Storm, Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: (Dunno what for)
Storm Nordwind waves
Agatha Macbeth: TC