The Guardian for this meeting was Bruce. The comments are by Agatha.

Aphrodite Macbain's current display-name is "Aph".
Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Tura!
Tura Brezoianu: hi Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm enjoying these readings, are you?
Aphrodite Macbain: They should make a movie...
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Tura Brezoianu: yes, I'd never have read it as closely without them
Aphrodite Macbain: Me neither
Tura Brezoianu: I wonder if there's been one?
Aphrodite Macbain: Perhaps an animated one
Tura Brezoianu: I see two of that name on IMDB
Tura Brezoianu: but...
Tura Brezoianu: "A military expedition in Siberia gone wrong. The existence of humanity is in peril as Inanna, Sumerian goddess of lust and war has summoned a giant meteor to destroy the planet, after being accidentally set free from her ancient prison."
Aphrodite Macbain: Huh!

More of this later...

Agatha Macbeth: Huh
Agatha Macbeth: :P
Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Aggers
Agatha Macbeth: Evening both
Agatha Macbeth: No Liz?
Tura Brezoianu: The other one is more promising, a short film, "Based on the epic, written on twelve 5000 year old clay tablets, this is the first film adaptation of Gilgamesh'
Aphrodite Macbain: wow. when wass it made? How can I get a copy?
Bruce Mowbray's current display-name is "Bruce".
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Brucie
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Aph, Tura, and aggers.
Tura Brezoianu: 2011. I don't know, I just searched IMDB for "Gilgamesh". There are several other films as well.
--BELL--1.00
Aphrodite Macbain: what is IMBD?
Bruce Mowbray: Internet Movie Database.
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Aphrodite Macbain: didnt know it was there
Bruce Mowbray: a valuable resource.
Tura Brezoianu: "Gilgamesh: Immortality" is in development, and is about the story of his quest for the flower of immortality
Santoshima Resident's current display-name is "San".
Aphrodite Macbain: I can imagine. Thanks!
Agatha Macbeth: Hello San :)
Santoshima Resident: hello :)
Aphrodite Macbain: he went on a number of quests I guess
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi San
Tura Brezoianu: Gilgamesh (2003–2004), "Set in a future where the sky has been changed into a giant mirror, two teenage children", er, I think not
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, San.

Where is our Liz?

Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether Eliza will make it
Agatha Macbeth: Did she say she'd be late?
Aphrodite Macbain: I dont think so
Bruce Mowbray: Eliza is recounting ballots from Tuesday's election, and Bleu is in NYC. . . attending a seminar on Gilgamesh.
Agatha Macbeth: Unusual
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Aphrodite Macbain: lol
Bruce Mowbray: Liz asked me to lead today's discussion. . . on Tablets 3 and 4.
Aphrodite Macbain: good for both of them!
Agatha Macbeth: Oh good
Aphrodite Macbain: OK great. Thanks Bruce
Agatha Macbeth: Fire away then

Bruce Mowbray: I'm at a bit of a loss on where to start.
Bruce Mowbray: Anyone have a report?
Aphrodite Macbain: No
Aphrodite Macbain: Just queastions
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Fire away, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain: queasy questions
Bruce Mowbray: Please ask them.
Aphrodite Macbain: I was trying to figure out how far they travelled.
Aphrodite Macbain: If they really walked from Uruk to Lebanon
Bruce Mowbray: They traveled in three days what would have taken a normal person thirty days.
Aphrodite Macbain: that's far
Bruce Mowbray: Yep, leagues and leagues.
Aphrodite Macbain: I looked up the definition of a league and found about 10
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: definitions
Bruce Mowbray: A l-o-n-g way.
Aphrodite Macbain: one was a distance that one walks in an hour
Agatha Macbeth: I've heard some Tibetan lamas can run that kind of distance in a short time
Aphrodite Macbain: the other was 1.5 roman miles
Agatha Macbeth: Lunggompa or something
Aphrodite Macbain: Gilgamesh had lama-training I guess
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps the distance to the forest is symbolic -- a LONG way, a quest, . . .
Agatha Macbeth: Yes it's a kind of mind-body training I hear
Aphrodite Macbain: Probably
Aphrodite Macbain: But if they travelledd from Uruk to Lebanon, that would have taken weeks and weeks
Bruce Mowbray: But they did it in three days.
Bruce Mowbray: emphasizing their physical prowess.
Agatha Macbeth: Alledgedly
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps.
Aphrodite Macbain: I was interested in the preparation and interpretation of his dreams
Tura Brezoianu: And carrying enormous axes and daggers
Aphrodite Macbain: indeed!
Bruce Mowbray: The dreams happen in Tablet 4, don't they?
Aphrodite Macbain: I like the way Enkidu spread himself "like a net" at the entrance
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Aphrodite Macbain: In Tablet 3 they prayed to Shamash and said goodbye to Uruk
Bruce Mowbray nods.
Aphrodite Macbain: I loved the illustration
Bruce Mowbray tries to remember when they consulted G's mother Ninsun.
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder what that headpiece was made of
Aphrodite Macbain: yes they did Bruce
Aphrodite Macbain: they aksed Ninsun to pray to Shamash
Bruce Mowbray: ahh yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: Seems Ninsun was both goddess and queen
Bruce Mowbray: yes, and mother to G.
Aphrodite Macbain: right- god and king
Aphrodite Macbain: and adopter of Enkidu
Bruce Mowbray: A bromance?
Aphrodite Macbain: (I've only just read all this so it's fresh in my mind)
Aphrodite Macbain: bromance?
Agatha Macbeth: Bromance?
Bruce Mowbray: Well, after G defeated E in the wrestling match, they became very close friends...
Aphrodite Macbain: right
Agatha Macbeth: Ah :p
Aphrodite Macbain: they became brothers
Agatha Macbeth: Je comprends
Agatha Macbeth: Like Butch and Sundance
Bruce Mowbray: The text says that "G flowed into E" the same way G had previously "flowed into" the young ladies of Uruk.
Bruce Mowbray: (whome he'd raped, atually.)
Aphrodite Macbain: missed that!
Aphrodite Macbain: He did?
Agatha Macbeth: Nice
Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, "flowed into"
Aphrodite Macbain: missed that too
Bruce Mowbray: He was a WILD man!
Aphrodite Macbain: does flowing mean raping?
Bruce Mowbray: No, "flowing" means he had sex with....
Bruce Mowbray: not necessarily rape.
--BELL--1.15
Aphrodite Macbain: nods. That's why I dont see why you consider it rape
Bruce Mowbray ponders the first love story in world literature being a gay story.
Agatha Macbeth: Go with the flow
Aphrodite Macbain: grins
Bruce Mowbray: He did NOT rape Enkidu; he raped the women in the city.
Aphrodite Macbain: ohhh
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: sorry- misread..
Agatha Macbeth: So he was gay and a rapist - quite a guy eh
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: and he was a god too
Agatha Macbeth: Right
Aphrodite Macbain: bad example to set
Aphrodite Macbain: much like the Greek gods
Agatha Macbeth: Probably accounts for how he got there so quickly
Bruce Mowbray: I'm not thinking that he was "gay." only that he loved Enkidu.
Aphrodite Macbain: Zeus was a bad boy
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: they were brothers
Aphrodite Macbain: eventually
Agatha Macbeth: That's Greeks for you
Aphrodite Macbain: so incest was out of the question
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, bro-mance, then.

Bruce Mowbray: So, is anything impressing you about these tablets?
Tura Brezoianu: we might be reading modern categories into this
Aphrodite Macbain: what did you think of the dreams?
Bruce Mowbray: Lets, see.... at least three dreams....
Agatha Macbeth: Yes the dreams
Bruce Mowbray: the mountain, the volcano....
Aphrodite Macbain: They seemed to be a way of predicting the future
Bruce Mowbray: and the.....
Agatha Macbeth: Oh thought there were five
Agatha Macbeth: Hm
Aphrodite Macbain: 5 dreams
Agatha Macbeth: Thought so
Aphrodite Macbain: all scary
Bruce Mowbray: Endiku interpreted them as predicting the fight with Humbaba.
Agatha Macbeth: He thought they were prophetic
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Aphrodite Macbain: but Enkidu thought they were great
Tura Brezoianu: The Foster translation says the texts are too fragmented to be sure, but one version refers to 5.
Aphrodite Macbain: Enkidu was an optimist
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, very positive dreams.
Agatha Macbeth: A good omen
Agatha Macbeth: Thanks Tu
Bruce Mowbray: (and he was right)
Aphrodite Macbain: I'd like to have Enkidu as a friend
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, that's what I remembered, ura.
Bruce Mowbray: but onyl three dreams are told in detail, right?
Agatha Macbeth ruffles Tura's hair
Aphrodite Macbain: right
Aphrodite Macbain: mountains, bulls, water
Agatha Macbeth: Storms?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Agatha Macbeth nods
Bruce Mowbray: The thirteen winds - - -
Aphrodite Macbain looks around for Storm
Agatha Macbeth: Yes where is he
Bruce Mowbray: Maybe Humbaba got him.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe he's vote counting too
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Bruce Mowbray: So, G and E are going on a "hero's journey"?
Santoshima Resident: 'scuse me, must go rake leaves
Bruce Mowbray: (cf, Joseph Campbell)
Agatha Macbeth: TC San
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye San
Bruce Mowbray: bye, San-ji.
Agatha Macbeth: Good to see you
Tura Brezoianu: bye San
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- it's an archetypical hero's journey
Tura Brezoianu: G and E together are the hero
Agatha Macbeth: Hero walk yes
Aphrodite Macbain: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Like at WBH
Bruce Mowbray: I noticed that at the end of the 2nd tablet, the city elders were telling them not to go on the journey...
Aphrodite Macbain: they collaborate and support eachother
Bruce Mowbray: but at the beginning of the 3rd, they were giving advice about the journey.
Aphrodite Macbain: some say don't go, others say good luck
Agatha Macbeth: Yes they try to dissuade them
Agatha Macbeth: Bit like the birds
Bruce Mowbray: yes, and then they give them advice...
Aphrodite Macbain: "forget death and seek life"
Agatha Macbeth: Wise words
Aphrodite Macbain: Interesting about stiffness in his arms
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm. Humbaba protected the Forest of Lebanon. . .
Bruce Mowbray: how so, Aph?
Agatha Macbeth: The timber for Solomon's temple came from there
Aphrodite Macbain nods
Bruce Mowbray: yes, cedars.
Bruce Mowbray: To make that entrance door....
Aphrodite Macbain: Enkidu] opened his [mouth] to speak, [saying to Gilgamesh:] , ... have come down ...... , · ..... and [my arms] grow stiff
Aphrodite Macbain: oops
Agatha Macbeth: Hiram actually came from Lebanon
Agatha Macbeth: Sorry, digressing
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder who the "bull of the wild is in his last dream
Bruce Mowbray: I think the great forest partly symbolizes wildness.
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe the same one Mithras fought
Bruce Mowbray: Wouldn't that be Humbaba....?
Aphrodite Macbain: There were many cedars in Lebanon
--BELL--1.30
Aphrodite Macbain: I think the Romans built ships from them
Agatha Macbeth: Leb is famous for its cedar
Aphrodite Macbain: so they weren't just symbols
Agatha Macbeth: (And other stuff)
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Oh, I agree that the forest is real. . . but isn't it also symbolic?
Bruce Mowbray: I mean, in order to be Humbaba's home, it would have to be pretty wild, huh?
Aphrodite Macbain: I remember seeing paintings in Egypt of birds with their wings tied back - symbolizing the captured enemy. Tying back wings (arms) was their way to control them. Gilgamesh had his arms tied back...
Aphrodite Macbain: and were released by the Thunderbird
Aphrodite Macbain: Hoopoe birds
Agatha Macbeth: Sounds like a zu
Aphrodite Macbain: zu?
Agatha Macbeth: The bird
Aphrodite Macbain: we haven't met
Agatha Macbeth: Appears in other stories
Aphrodite Macbain: ah
Agatha Macbeth: Breathes fire
Aphrodite Macbain: interesting there's a thunderbird in First Nation's mythology
Bruce Mowbray: So wild Gil confronts wild Humbaba.... Does defeating Humbaba actually civilize Gil somewhat?
Aphrodite Macbain: thunder and lighting
Agatha Macbeth: Thunderbirds are go
Aphrodite Macbain: I haven't got there yet Bruce. That comes after tablet 4
Bruce Mowbray: Oh, sry.
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Think 4 ends where they hear Hum in the distance

Dreams again

Aphrodite Macbain: Has anyone here had foreboding dreams like Gilgamesh?
Agatha Macbeth: Before they reach the forest
Bruce Mowbray: So, Tablet 4 just has them preparing for the journey and making the journey.....
Aphrodite Macbain: Humming in the distance?
Agatha Macbeth: Not that foreboding Aph, no
Aphrodite Macbain: yes Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: kk.
Aphrodite Macbain: I wondered whether it had come up in the dream sessions here
Agatha Macbeth: Don't think so
Aphrodite Macbain: signs from the future
Agatha Macbeth: Not as yet anyway
Tura Brezoianu: I've never had dreams that seemed to be about the future
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps they are more about things we fear rather than things that will happen
Bruce Mowbray: My dreams don't seem prophetic.... they seem more retro, actually.
Agatha Macbeth: That seems the case here
Aphrodite Macbain: nods
Aphrodite Macbain: so Enkidu allays G's fears to give him courage
Aphrodite Macbain: What a guy!
Bruce Mowbray: but the ancients put much import in what dreams might portend.

An old friend

Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Qt!
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Qt!
Qt Core: Hi all
Agatha Macbeth: Sera Qt :)
Aphrodite Macbain: we're talking about the Gilgamesh epic
Agatha Macbeth: Glad you could make it
Bruce Mowbray: https://wiki.playasbeing.org/Theme_Sessions/Book_Session%3a_Gilgamesh
Bruce Mowbray: Is anyone else listening to Foster read the tablets?
Aphrodite Macbain: No
Qt Core: Oh, i remember him, studied it when i was 8, a peculiar school year for me, i had a computer named Enkidu a few years ago
Aphrodite Macbain: t I
Agatha Macbeth: Yes moi
Aphrodite Macbain: cool
Bruce Mowbray: Wow. Great name for a computer!
Aphrodite Macbain: I had a hamster called Marduk
Aphrodite Macbain: :D
Aphrodite Macbain: Was it a hairy computer
Aphrodite Macbain: ?
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha.
Agatha Macbeth ponders a hairy computer
Qt Core: ;-)
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Agatha Macbeth: You can have some hairy moments with them certainly
Bruce Mowbray: I enjoy listening to Foster reading the tablet -- but I find it VERY difficult to follow along in the text.
Bruce Mowbray: It jumps all over.
Agatha Macbeth: It is a bit heavy going yes
Agatha Macbeth: But then it's an epic after all
Aphrodite Macbain: I am enjoying the poetry of the epic and the repetition of key lines - it's so much like other more recent epic poetry
Agatha Macbeth: The Bible's much the same
Aphrodite Macbain: like a chorus
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I also enjoy that, Aph.
Aphrodite Macbain imagines everyone joining in during the reprise
Bruce Mowbray: Well, I'm guessing that very few persons who heard the epic were able to read it.... so it would need to be "almost" sung.....
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder whether the epic was given to school children to read in those times
Qt Core: repetition to help memorization, it is written but was there already a culture of writing (not a written culture i mean)
Aphrodite Macbain: right
--BELL--1.45
Agatha Macbeth: I wonder if it was handed hown orally before it was written?
Agatha Macbeth: down*
Aphrodite Macbain: Accountants and pr people used cuneiform - to record transactions and record history
Tura Brezoianu: There's a nice bit at the end of Tablet II, where Enkidu tells the elders what a bad idea this quest is. Then the elders advise G, repeating what Enkidu said in exactly the same words. Then G looks at Enkidu and laughs, and it's like he's saying, "You've been talking to them, haven't you, I can tell."
Bruce Mowbray: Oh, I'm pretty sure it was an oral tradition before being written down.
Aphrodite Macbain: lol Tura- you're right!
Agatha Macbeth smiles @ Tura
Bruce Mowbray: Good point, Tura.
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder who was responsible for memorizing and passing along these stories
Tura Brezoianu: I wonder if the author was sending up the tradition of repeating whole passages.
Agatha Macbeth: We're a wondering lot
Bruce Mowbray: Then it switches to the elders giving advice about the journey. . . so they apparently were convinced that G and E were going, in spite of their earlier advice.
Aphrodite Macbain: It's a wonderful thing
Agatha Macbeth: Wonder woman
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps G and E wondered as they wandered.
Aphrodite Macbain: I wonder what they are discussing at the Gilgamesh conferene in NYC
Agatha Macbeth: Bromance?

Bruce Mowbray: OH! DId you get Eliza's email with the photo of that?
Aphrodite Macbain: what topics would they consider
Tura Brezoianu: Like someone's mother saying "Alright, don't say I didn't warn you, but if you must go, remember to wrap up warm"
Aphrodite Macbain: no
Agatha Macbeth: And change your underwear
Aphrodite Macbain: :)
Bruce Mowbray: I'll see if I can find it...
Aphrodite Macbain: brush your teeth
Bruce Mowbray: It's a photo of one of the tablets.
Agatha Macbeth: Don't talk to strange monsters
Bruce Mowbray: actually THERE at the seminar.
Aphrodite Macbain: I cant find it
Aphrodite Macbain: she sent a photo of a tablet?
Agatha Macbeth: What are we looking for?
Agatha Macbeth: Oh
Aphrodite Macbain: Nada
Agatha Macbeth: Hm I don't recall that
Tura Brezoianu: maybe she can show it to us when she's back
Aphrodite Macbain: Do you know who is organizing the conference?
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Agatha Macbeth: Thanks
Aphrodite Macbain: Tura has found a couple of movies on Gilgamesh
Aphrodite Macbain: thanks Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: I dont know who's organizing it, but Foster is speaking there.

Agatha Macbeth: Erk
Agatha Macbeth turns sideways
Aphrodite Macbain: Is it a tablet with an image on it?
Agatha Macbeth: That's an actual tablet?
Agatha Macbeth: Snap
Aphrodite Macbain: Big tablet
Aphrodite Macbain: They were
Aphrodite Macbain: They had clay pits
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm curious what they used to make those wedges
Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps carved stone pieces
Tura Brezoianu: thanks for the pic Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: yw :)
Bruce Mowbray: sry that it was turned sideways.
Agatha Macbeth: That's better - I snapshotted it and rotated
Aphrodite Macbain: np
Bruce Mowbray: It was not turned like that in the email attachment.
Aphrodite Macbain: I couldn't read it anyway :)
Agatha Macbeth: OK if I put that in the log Brucie?
Bruce Mowbray: Sure!
Agatha Macbeth: Thanks x

Aphrodite Macbain: So next week it's Tablets 5 & 6?
Bruce Mowbray: It was a photo that Bleu took and then sent on to Eliza, and she sent it on to me.
Aphrodite Macbain: Can hardly wait to see what happens :)
Agatha Macbeth: The PaB train
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, 5 and 6 for next week.
Agatha Macbeth: Woot
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye all
Agatha Macbeth: TC Aphie
Bruce Mowbray: Looking forward to the confrontation with HUmbaba.
Aphrodite Macbain: watch out for big bulls
Bruce Mowbray: Bye Aph.
Bruce Mowbray: THANKS!
Agatha Macbeth: And the big mooses

And back to films

Qt Core: one would wonder when they'll make a movie out of it
Agatha Macbeth: Suprised they haven't
Bruce Mowbray ponders how movies on wonder-heroes have replaced epic poetry. . . .
Qt Core: big special effect, nice gym guy as a lead
Agatha Macbeth: We had Jason and the Argonauts, etc. after all
Bruce Mowbray checks IMDB....
Qt Core: then there would be issies about whitewashing (is that the world) the character...
Qt Core: *issues
Bruce Mowbray: https://www.imdb.com/find?ref_=nv_sr...ilgamesh&s=all
Bruce Mowbray: That's a modernized version of Middle East conflict.
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, everyone.
Tura Brezoianu: Click "more title matches" there and you get 89 results
Agatha Macbeth: That's not actually *about* Gilgamesh tho?
Agatha Macbeth: No, thought not
Bruce Mowbray: Need to run into town now.... Many leagues.
--BELL--2.00
Tura Brezoianu: ... some of which are actually about Gilgamesh
Bruce Mowbray: Nope, not about OUR Gilgamesh.
Agatha Macbeth: Run well Brucie
Tura Brezoianu: bye Bruce
Qt Core: have fun, bye all
Agatha Macbeth: Have fun with the squirrels
Bruce Mowbray: Always, aggers!
Bruce Mowbray: :)

Agatha Macbeth: How's things Qt?
Qt Core: intersting ;-) as the chinese curse says
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Agatha Macbeth: As long as you and family are well
Agatha Macbeth: Nice dress Tu
Tura Brezoianu: tx :)
Qt Core: i'm seeing to that (bringing my sister to de doc tomorrow)
Agatha Macbeth nods
Qt Core: you Agatha ?
Agatha Macbeth: Oh I'm fine thanks
Tura Brezoianu: goodnight Qt, Ag
Agatha Macbeth: No news is good news and all that
Agatha Macbeth: TC Tu
Qt Core: 'night Tura
Agatha Macbeth: I'll try and make Wollie's session on Sunday
Qt Core: i'll try too
Agatha Macbeth: Will be like old times :)