04-06 We Seeing

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    Being Exploration...

    Seeing what cannot be seen, Knowing what cannot be known, Sharing what cannot be shared.

    -Eliza Scribing, filling in for Mick :)

    2010.01.04 01:00 - The darkness does not always need the light 

    Calvino Rabeni: like the womb
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a source and safekeeping of things 071023164005-large.jpg
    Tarmel Udimo: yes this is the approach the book takes
    Zon Quar: the book sounds interesting
    Calvino Rabeni: soul is yin, spirit is yang
    Zon Quar: ive been thinking about darkness too lately
    Zon Quar: the inevitability of it
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, most of the universe is dark
    Zon Quar: and the way it is interlinked to light
    Zon Quar: part of the same pulse
    Calvino Rabeni: dark is the background out of which light arises
    Calvino Rabeni: the insides of things are dark
    Tarmel Udimo: yes its like looking at the play of shadows and knowing that they are created by light

    2010.01.04 07:00 - Your place in the family of things 

    Eden writes:
    As I saw the Mary Oliver's poem scrolling down in local chat, I found it so beautiful I had this impulse to
    open the vocal chat and to read the rest of it aloud, discovering it as I read

    Zen Arado: 'You do not have to be good. You do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles through
     the desert, repenting. You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves. Tell me about
    despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.

    Meanwhile the world goes on.

    Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles  of the rain are moving across the landscapes, over the prairies and the deep trees, the mountains and the rivers. Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air, are heading home again.

    Whoever you are, no matter how lonely, the world offers itself to your imagination, calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting-- over and over announcing your place in the family of things.' - Mary Oliver


    2010.01.04 13:00 - More on YS, ES, BS 

    Wol Euler: During the pause I tried a bit of ES to remind myself of the "flavour" of it, and actually discovered an objection to it / I felt that there was too much "thinking" in it
    Wol Euler: that the effort of visualization can stand in the way

    Pema Pera: the problem is that *any* kind of practice is like a lollipop held out in front of the self/ego . . . and Being doesn't seem as tasty as a lollipop, hard to imagine what to do with it . . . . -- but we can find ways to put the lollipops to good use, I don't want to condemn them in any way

    (The Sun, with all the planets revolving around it, and depending on it, can still ripen a
    bunch of grapes as though it had nothing else in the Universe to do
    .” Galileo Galilei)

    Bolonath Crystal: as an advaitin i think of life as a dream. the dream selves cannot be enlightened, and the dreamer already is. so YS is actually done by being. i can't find the difference between YS, ES and BS, except maybe that in YS the dream self identifies with his/her/its illusion of 'self'. maybe i'm only lacking fantasy...
    Pema Pera: exactly Bolo!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Pema Pera: that's what I meant, to Liza, that they don't bite each other
    Pema Pera: Being allows all views, while all views can be informed by Being

    Gaya Ethaniel nods @ Bolo. Essentially ES is YS for me, I don't do the three separate practices.
    Gaya Ethaniel: But initally knowing the three concepts were very helpful.

    Eden Haiku: Yes, Bolo ES seems to me just like a more figurative way, Being Seeing would be abstract 'painting' sort of... Obvioulsy, we use our imagination in the 3 practices but the, sometimes, something happens that does go beyond our imagination and we know it then.

    ("Art is a lie that makes us realize truth" - Pablo Picasso)  


    2010.01.05 01:00 - And then just a little less 

    Gaya Ethaniel nods ... tries to remember a quote by Picasso re: jobs ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can't remember exact words but he said something about doing 5 if one is able to do 7,
    doing 3 if one is able to 5 ... etc.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Guess it refers to being less ambitious? What do you think?
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't think so, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel listens.
    Calvino Rabeni: Someone asked me for advice on running
    Calvino Rabeni: So I repeated what I had been taught
    Calvino Rabeni: Assuming - you want to be a long distance runner and do that for a long time
    Calvino Rabeni: the advice was- run as if you could do it FOREVER,
    Calvino Rabeni:and then just a little less, so that you still have a desire, to want a little MORE

    2010.01.05 07:00 - Stacking 

    Riddle Sideways: as stated that is the example, but in little daily things we switch back-n-forth
    Riddle Sideways: little tasks like take butter out of freezer
    Riddle Sideways: bigger tasks like new wonderful super computer I just assembled
    Riddle Sideways: that can not run SL yet
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders ... what an interesting topic ... switching back and forth ...
    Riddle Sideways: pushing tasks and interruptions onto out stacks
    Riddle Sideways: pushing the context of where we were onto the stack so we can go to the interruptions
    Riddle Sideways: people's stacks are a little better then computer stacks in that we can pop tasks by priority
    Riddle Sideways: well, maybe
    Gaya Ethaniel: In a sense though ... these categorising, reviewing tasks add to the pile?
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think I largely let go of such rules ... and also feel less interrupted by 'interruptions'.
    Gaya Ethaniel: This way I feel less drained when switching back-n-forth. Of course top priority tasks, I try to be firm about not interrupting :)
    Riddle Sideways: very good technique

    2010.01.05 13:00 – Circles within Circles 

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
    Vertigo Ethaniel: gday gaya
    Liza Deischer: hi Gaya
    Agatha Macbeth: I never saw you as a human being before!

    Wol Euler: ooh, a full circle. We all get bonus karma points now.

    angel-cloud.jpgMickorod Renard: I am supposed to be a christian
    Zon Quar: or how many angels can stand in the needle
    Storm Nordwind: DId someone tell you to be, Mick?!
    Vertigo Ethaniel: youre supposed to be whatever youre comfortable with
    Agatha Macbeth: ;-)
    Zen Arado: resurrection is such a big idea to grasp
    Mickorod Renard: no, not at all Storm,,maybe I am not
    Vertigo Ethaniel: personally, i tend towards a shinto/pagan/agnostic bend
    Vertigo Ethaniel is weird
    Agatha Macbeth: Well that covers the field :)
    Storm Nordwind: Some very disparate things there Vertigo!
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Vertigo Ethaniel: yep i am conflicted
    Agatha Macbeth: Each-way bet?
    Mickorod Renard: I saw something on the television the other day(so must be true) that Jesus attended budhist lessons
    Vertigo Ethaniel: he was also a huge stoner
    Wol Euler chortles at the thought of finding truths on TV.
    Storm Nordwind: Reminds me of the Zen story: http://deoxy.org/koan/16
    Wol Euler nods. How true.
    Agatha Macbeth: Nice Storm :)
    Zon Quar: nods
    Vertigo Ethaniel has reached PLATINUM KARMA
    Agatha Macbeth: BONG!

    Aidan Spiritor: Diversity is great but the problem arises with dogma..
    Aidan Spiritor: I'm right and you're wrong for eg..
    Mickorod Renard: as it has been discovered during Pab sessions in the past,,there is much that we all share..regardless of our beliefs that have names
    Zen Arado: the Dalai Lama says you need the diversity of religions because of the difference in cultures
    Storm Nordwind: Dogma is separate, Aiden. Some methods have it. Some don't. You gets what you chooses.
    Zen Arado: there will never be a universal religion
    Vertigo Ethaniel: bahai is getting close, zen
    Mickorod Renard: maybe Pab is one?
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Only one Mick? ;)

    An important session, this scribe feels, and encourages the reader to take some time with:

    2010.01.05 19:00 - Space In Tension Ality 

    Eos Amaterasu: so we could take YS, ES, BS as an example
    Eos Amaterasu: You Seeing, Enlightened Seeing, Being Seeing
    Eos Amaterasu: and in the case of a group
    Eos Amaterasu: turn the You into a plural
    Eos Amaterasu: You-all seein' :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: or maybe we seeing
    Calvino Rabeni: The we-seeing is a useful perspective
    Eos Amaterasu: so the contemplation is that of the group process recapitulating the individual process
    Eos Amaterasu: I think you get a stronger sense of that in retreat, at least in the group RL retreats I've experienced
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm thinking of facilitation "in the large", not specifically how to facilitate a play-as-being session
    Eos Amaterasu: I'm actually thinking about it the other way around
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Eos Amaterasu: How to facilitate _from_ PaB
    Eos Amaterasu: both re the facilitator coming from that
    Eos Amaterasu: and the group coming from that
    Calvino Rabeni: So the internal experiential state of the facilitator is important for "coming from" into the world
    Eos Amaterasu: in a way the facilitator holds the state of mind, or its call-by-future, for the group
    Eos Amaterasu: but that's a paradoxical holding
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I see that - and demonstrating and communicating it is necessary
    Calvino Rabeni: Presencing it
    Eos Amaterasu: Although in many situations it's a totally unknown situation for the facilitator
    Calvino Rabeni: And you're right, the facilitator may not be able to come from a "control" place
    Eos Amaterasu: So maybe that's a saving grace :-)

    Pema Pera: there is also the question whether anything like facilitation has to be developed, or whether it would be a natural by-product of something else, in case it might be more effective to just focus on the something else -- awareness, compassion, appreciation . . . . so far we seem to assume that there is something that needs to be "done" in some way, are we sure that is actually correct?

    Calvino Rabeni: Resting at ease does not typically seem to shake people out of habits of being "on automatic"
    Pema Pera: there's where the 9 sec comes in!
    Calvino Rabeni: Unless someone is quite alert to the new energy that emerges
    Calvino Rabeni: and sponsors it to come out
    Pema Pera: stir, wait, stir again
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, rather taoist
    Hotaru Myoo: always stirring
    Pema Pera: or trust others to let it come out
    Storm Nordwind: And breathe the aroma while waiting!
    Hotaru Myoo: but
    Calvino Rabeni: Drop Don't Stop
    Hotaru Myoo: what is at the bottom of the pot?
    Eos Amaterasu: this is not turtle soup
    Calvino Rabeni: Can only speculate
    Calvino Rabeni: Normally it is bottomless

    Eos Amaterasu: two things I see: 1) basic mythologies of majority of people need to grow, deepen
    doug Sosa: which we know is not working. slow suicide getting faster. but how to slow, how to help the weaker. how to prevent lots of violence?
    Eos Amaterasu: 2) that's not enough: there is much power concentrated in a very few people
    Eos Amaterasu: those have to be moved, or allowed to self-destruct
    Calvino Rabeni: How, doug?
    Calvino Rabeni: What are the proposals?
    doug Sosa: yes, but letting up on the structure would probably rupture it. this is a delicate operation.
    Calvino Rabeni: What is the evidence for that idea?
    Eos Amaterasu: for example, the pseudo financial system needs to be allowed to self-destruct
    Calvino Rabeni: It sounds like the "ego of the economy"
    Eos Amaterasu: without taking dow the "real" wealth generation systems with it
    doug Sosa: there really are not many proposals. local are the most obvious. tech fixes only aim to maintain the speed.
    Eos Amaterasu: speed limits
    Calvino Rabeni: How many versions of localism are there?
    doug Sosa: i think we can look at revolutions, civil wars, when old strucutres fallaway, the increased entropy leads to violence.

    Eos Amaterasu: localism is also in time, as well as in space

    doug Sosa: Still supposition, though worthy.

    Eos Amaterasu: PaB helps with resting with increased entropy :-)

    2010.01.06 01:00 - real - more real 

        Calvino Rabeni: If every human was responsible for the existence of their world,it would be pretty    burdensome/ human race would basically crack up
        Zon Quar: says..this feels true
        Zen Arado: like waves in an ocean
        Calvino Rabeni: If "me" is in doubt, then how can "my" notion of "isness" not also be in doubt?
        Zon Quar: cause we think we r separate waves really and independent of the ocean
        Zen Arado: just one particular manifestation
        Zen Arado: unique and different but still part of a whole
        Zon Quar: but the sea is there
        Calvino Rabeni: Take away the water, no sea is there 

    2010.01.06 07:00 - No Need to BECOME Anything 

    Eliza Madrigal: what I want to ask is along the lines of whether you just 'stay' in non-locality thinking...
    Bolonath Crystal: non-locality thinking? i never thought about it this way... but i think that fits somehow
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose the way I heard you was in a kind of relative/absolute outline...
    Bolonath Crystal: imo all we perceive as 'outside' is a projection - as well as all we perceive as 'inside'.
    in fact there shouldn't be much difference
    Bolonath Crystal: some things we are projecting 'outside', others 'inside'
    Bolonath Crystal: but 'being' is neither outside nor inside - or maybe both as the same time
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so it isn't that you are viewing 'from the absolute' and dismissing the relative as projection....
    Bolonath Crystal: the relative is the way, in which the absolute sees
    Eliza Madrigal: 'unity'
    Bolonath Crystal: yes / in an absolute way there is nothing to see

    Zen Arado: hungry ghost for books too
    Zen Arado: buy more than I can read
    Eliza Madrigal: Well... think of what you've already read in life...
    Zen Arado: and forgotten....
    Eliza Madrigal: if you 'learned' nothing else from this moment....
    Bolonath Crystal: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: read nothing else... prob what you'd read and have to work with is 'enough'
    Zen Arado: exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: I tell myself this... there is nothing 'needed' really....
    Zen Arado: more than enough

    Bolonath Crystal: i started meditating when i was 15, mainly because i liked david carradine in his kung fu films :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: hah so grasshopper :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Why not :)

    2010.01.06 13:00 - Heppiness is a Warm Gun 

    Wol Euler: I was thinking during hte pause about times that I have known that I was happy. There were very few,
    actually, when I felt happiness arising.
    Wol Euler: It's mostly something that I recognize afterwards, "Ah, that was nice"
    Fefonz Quan: I recognize it during sometimes, than i try not to think about it too much, cause than it pushes it away...
    Mickorod Renard: I remember times i am happy,,and am frequently happy,,I am very lucky,,maybe I am greedy wanting to be very happy all of the time
    Wol Euler: right!
    Zen Arado: we look for it in the future
    Eliza Madrigal: yes like self-consciousness
    Zen Arado: and miss it when it is here
    Storm Nordwind: Realizing I am happy does not make me any less happy.
    Fefonz Quan: staying with it without pushing it aside is much harder than one might expect
    arabella Ella: i think one important concept is Carpe Diem ... seize the day
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes you can compliment a reserved child on something they are doing...
    and then they look at themselves and stop
    Storm Nordwind: I guess it comes with practice then :)
    Fefonz Quan nods to Storm

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